372 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Seboist wrote...

Whether or not they can adapt against indoctrination is a good question.

Damn, wish I could've asked it at PAX through twitter. D:

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 août 2011 - 03:07 .

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Whether or not they can adapt against indoctrination is a good question.

Damn, wish I could've asked it at PAX through twitter. D:

That's what you should have done my Cerberus blood brother. The cause of Vorcha rights won't advance itself ya know.

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You lack faith in TIM, but never bother to re-evaluate why. On what do you base that? That's he's a shady character? Big deal.

A consistent pattern of withholding important information from the protagonist, sending him into traps and poisoning his relationships suggests that there is a definite limit to how much trust The Illusive Man should be given.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Goneaviking wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You lack faith in TIM, but never bother to re-evaluate why. On what do you base that? That's he's a shady character? Big deal.

A consistent pattern of withholding important information from the protagonist, sending him into traps and poisoning his relationships suggests that there is a definite limit to how much trust The Illusive Man should be given.

What pattern? You create lies to support your pre-established misconceptions.

He witheld information ONCE and for a damn good reason.
He sent you into a trap to get vital info - it was necessary. And he provided you with a way out of that trap (EDI).

Again, how does that kind of trust preclude from working with him?

Even if I were to assume everything you said is true - how does that prove he's trun against humanity?
How does him lying to shepard prove at any point he can't be trusted to fight for his survival and survival of humanity - and we're talking about a man whos' every action has been FOR humanity?
Explain that leap of logic there.....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Seboist wrote...
My ME universe is the best one.

Here's the highlights,

* My Shepard will have become Mrs.Harper and co-leader of Cerberus

* Harbinger will be transformed into the Normandy SR-3

* The council will consist of human, vorcha,krogan, geth and quarian.

* The Blue Suns (now run by my Shepard's ex-bf Zaeed) are a Cerberus affiliate

* The Blood Pack (now run by Shisk) will become the new C-Sec

* All the human traitors like Anderson,Hendel Mitra, Kahlee Sanders, VS,etc will have been lynched from the tallest redwood in California.

I dunno about hanging Anderson - he did help Shep stop Sovereign.

I'd also build a completely new Normady, thrice the size of Harbringer...I'd name it "Fist of an Angry God"

But other than that - I agree.

ALL HAIL THE HUMAN ALLIANCE. We shall lead the Terminus systems to glory!

[Evilatem]

all i could think of was...

[Dean_the_Young]

Dave of Canada wrote...

• The Council will only be human, there will be no arguments amongst the Council while lives are threatened. The Council will control the universe, whether they like it or not, and lives will be saved while the foolish previous Council would argue petty politics and peace.

Whether the Council likes it or not? Dearie me, but what if they don't want to do a good job?

[khordlambert]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

• The Council will only be human, there will be no arguments amongst the Council while lives are threatened. The Council will control the universe, whether they like it or not, and lives will be saved while the foolish previous Council would argue petty politics and peace.

Whether the Council likes it or not? Dearie me, but what if they don't want to do a good job?

[*]
[*]
[*]What I want to know, is why he thinks an all human council would be any better than the current one. He apparently thinks that humans would be above petty politics.
[*]
[*]I'm also rather concerned as to what being above peace means.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

And a safer one too with Councilor Udina cracking down on the Spectres.

[khordlambert]

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

...
....
.....WHAT!? How does that even begin to make sense!?

[khordlambert]

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

And a safer one too with Councilor Udina cracking down on the Spectres.

Safer? Really? The same Udina who nearly doomed the galaxy to Reaper invasion by putting the Normandy on lockdown?

So you like Udina who has made your job that much more difficult, but hate Anderson who has helped you every step of the way, and got your ship out of lockdown, because he exposed Alliance members with strong Cerberus affiliations?

Good gravy Seboist, you aren't renegade. You aren't even Renagon. Your just...Ugh.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

...
....
.....WHAT!? How does that even begin to make sense!?

The human Council is weaker which makes everyone else stronger.

The old Council had all the biggest races united against the smaller ones. Nothing could touch them. The human Council doesn't quite reach their level of power because all those old powerful Council races are still around.

If you want me to draw a picture to demonstrate it...

We want flow charts and a powerpoint presentation.

[khordlambert]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

...
....
.....WHAT!? How does that even begin to make sense!?

The human Council is weaker which makes everyone else stronger.

The old Council had all the biggest races united against the smaller ones. Nothing could touch them. The human Council doesn't quite reach their level of power because all those old powerful Council races are still around.

If you want me to draw a picture to demonstrate it...

We want flow charts and a powerpoint presentation.

Preferably with a voiceover by Morgan Freeman, though that's optional.

[Seboist]

khordlambert wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

And a safer one too with Councilor Udina cracking down on the Spectres.

Safer? Really? The same Udina who nearly doomed the galaxy to Reaper invasion by putting the Normandy on lockdown?

So you like Udina who has made your job that much more difficult, but hate Anderson who has helped you every step of the way, and got your ship out of lockdown, because he exposed Alliance members with strong Cerberus affiliations?

Good gravy Seboist, you aren't renegade. You aren't even Renagon. Your just...Ugh.

Based on what he knew at the time Udina made the right decision. Shepard was a political liability that was acting like a raving religious maniac thinking s/he's a prophet with visions of armageddon.

Udina wasn't making Shepard's job "any more difficult", on the contrary he was pushing for her to become a spectre from the get-go and defending her against the council every step of the way.

You're just another one of these people that expects your Shepard to be worshipped as the center of the universe and hate any character that doesn't kiss ass.

Udina > Vagina Anderscum by a landslide.

Modifié par Seboist, 29 août 2011 - 07:56 .

[khordlambert]

Seboist wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

An all human Council inadvertently creates a more equal galaxy.

And a safer one too with Councilor Udina cracking down on the Spectres.

Safer? Really? The same Udina who nearly doomed the galaxy to Reaper invasion by putting the Normandy on lockdown?

So you like Udina who has made your job that much more difficult, but hate Anderson who has helped you every step of the way, and got your ship out of lockdown, because he exposed Alliance members with strong Cerberus affiliations?

Good gravy Seboist, you aren't renegade. You aren't even Renagon. Your just...Ugh.

Based on what he knew at the time Udina made the right decision. Shepard was a political liability that was acting like a raving religious maniac thinking s/he's a prophet with visions of armageddon.

Udina wasn't making Shepard's job "any more difficult", on the contrary he was pushing for her to become a spectre from the get-go and defending her against the council every step of the way.

You're just another one of these people that expects your Shepard to be worshipped as the center of the universe and hate any character that doesn't kiss ass.

Udina > Vagina Anderscum by a landslide.

Still doesn't change the fact that Shepard was right. And no, I don't expect worship for my shep. I just expect people to actuually PAY ATTENTION when he says "Bad crap is going down!". Also, what is with your Anderson hate?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

khordlambert wrote...
Still doesn't change the fact that Shepard was right. And no, I don't expect worship for my shep. I just expect people to actuually PAY ATTENTION when he says "Bad crap is going down!". Also, what is with your Anderson hate?

The more you interact with sebo the more you realize 97% of the stuff he says shouldn't be taken seriously at all...

[Seboist]

khordlambert wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that Shepard was right. And no, I don't expect worship for my shep. I just expect people to actuually PAY ATTENTION when he says "Bad crap is going down!". Also, what is with your Anderson hate?

Shepard was only "right" in hindsight. She had no proof of her claims and "i say so" isn't convincing.

As for Anderson hate? Among other things he's too much of a dull one note mentor type. Udina is a far better character that creates more interesting conflict and drama.

Galactic citizens everywhere will rest easier now thanks to the Councilor my Shepard endorsed cracking down on the old council's space gestapo force. May Jubileus grace Mr. Udina.

[BiO]

I don't understand why people think Renegade = pro-human.

Take Zhu's Hope. Renegade is to kill everyone, thus destroying the colony. That doesn't sound very pro-human to me.

[khordlambert]

Seboist wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that Shepard was right. And no, I don't expect worship for my shep. I just expect people to actuually PAY ATTENTION when he says "Bad crap is going down!". Also, what is with your Anderson hate?

Shepard was only "right" in hindsight. She had no proof of her claims and "i say so" isn't convincing.

As for Anderson hate? Among other things he's too much of a dull one note mentor type. Udina is a far better character that creates more interesting conflict and drama.

Galactic citizens everywhere will rest easier now thanks to the Councilor my Shepard endorsed cracking down on the old council's space gestapo force. May Jubileus grace Mr. Udina.

Still doesn't explain why you hate Anderson.

[Kaiser Shepard]

khordlambert wrote...

Still doesn't explain why you hate Anderson.

The diehard Cerbies supposedly see Anderson as a traitor to humanity, mainly because of his actions against Cerberus in Retribution.

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You lack faith in TIM, but never bother to re-evaluate why. On what do you base that? That's he's a shady character? Big deal.

A consistent pattern of withholding important information from the protagonist, sending him into traps and poisoning his relationships suggests that there is a definite limit to how much trust The Illusive Man should be given.

What pattern? You create lies to support your pre-established misconceptions.

He witheld information ONCE and for a damn good reason.
He sent you into a trap to get vital info - it was necessary. And he provided you with a way out of that trap (EDI).

Again, how does that kind of trust preclude from working with him?

Even if I were to assume everything you said is true - how does that prove he's trun against humanity?
How does him lying to shepard prove at any point he can't be trusted to fight for his survival and survival of humanity - and we're talking about a man whos' every action has been FOR humanity?
Explain that leap of logic there.....

He withheld his speculation that the Collectors were behind the abductions when Shepard asked what he was expecting to find, he withheld his awareness that Horizon WOULD be attacked, he withheld his knowledge that the reports that Turians had crippled the Collectors were fraudulent. Yes, he's got reasons for all of these things but it doesn't erase that he's played Shepard like a dimwitted pawn from the moment he regained custody in Cerberus' custody.

I accept that he didn't want to taint the investigation by giving them a possibly inaccurate theory, but it did mean that Shepard was walking into the investigation where he was dependent on blind luck to find out who was behind the attack. If the quarian hadn't been on planet, and hadn't escaped detection, how many more colonies would have been harvested before he shared his suspicions?

He had valid reasons for not sharing his plan to use Horizon as bait, there existed a good chance that Shepard would refuse to go along with it. However he could have fabricated a reason to have Normandy in the area which would have allowed them to respond more quickly to the attack and saved many lives instead of feeding the Collectors a reason to attack Horizon and then waiting for the colony to go silent.

Does it seem remotely plausible that Shepard would refuse to board the Collector's ship if he'd known it was a scam? It's true that Shepard may have acted differently and tipped the Collectors off that he was on to them, but then again he'd also have taken precautions to maximise the chance of succeeding in the mission. It was taking a big chance that they wouldn't have just engaged their FTL engines the second Shepard had cleared the airlock, or simply turned and dissected the second Normandy like they had the first while he was caught in an ambush. 

TIM talks about what a great leader Shepard is, but he seems intent on subverting his command in service to his own plans and ego.

At no point have I claimed that the Illusive Man would turn traitor, nor that he couldn't be depended upon to defend his own interests. But he absolutely is an unreliable ally who withholds his plans even from his most valuable operatives, and will sacrifice them without warning for an uncertain result.

It's worth remembering that he did poison Shepard's relationship with the Council, the Alliance and the VS by telegraphing his involvement with Cerberus which remains an illegal organisation. The end result of this manipulation is that none of the above trust Shepard which guarantees that he can't count on them expending their resources to assist him as they otherwise would have, and makes him dependant on Cerberus to fund and staff his operation.

One final note, it's bad form to accuse others of lying. If you do it to me again I request that you actually back it up instead of relying on insulting hyperbole.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 29 août 2011 - 11:53 .

[Goneaviking]

BiO_MaN wrote...

I don't understand why people think Renegade = pro-human.

Take Zhu's Hope. Renegade is to kill everyone, thus destroying the colony. That doesn't sound very pro-human to me.

Renegade dialog periodically resorts to anti-alien speech. Although not all renegade options follow the same course, the pattern exists and it's a reasonable interpretation of pure renegade Shepard because of it.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 29 août 2011 - 11:53 .