6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

Lizardviking wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...
My complaint is why people keep saying I personally attacked him. I attacked his arguments and his presentation of them. I NEVER attacked his intelligence, character, or personal status. Everyone who has ever debated me here, may not like me, but they know I have never attacked someone on a personal level.

I think people are refering to your use of all those facepalm or other whacky demotivationel posters in your videos.

That would be my only complaint about your video Squee is the demotivational posters.  For the first 90% of the video I listened to it while looking at these forums and switched back  only to see the demotivations etc.  While some were funny I think they countered the really good arguments you were making.


In my opinion I would have just gone with clips from Smud's piece and a default Mass Effect 2 screen or something.

[Thestral]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Smudboy isn't completely wrong, but he's not completely right either.

Modifié par Thestral, 28 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Thestral wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Smudboy isn't completely wrong, but he's not completely right either.

Which is absolutely ok.


...Probably more healthy as well...

[Thestral]

Haha, definitely.

[Dragoonlordz]

ME2 [felt] like Pokemon in space. Loyalty missions are/were stupid as far plot goes (imho) as I have said before either they want to help you or they don't. I am not happy about solving what I consider (and I felt Smudboy got right) that it is a collection of daddy issues and pointless pandering into lives of crew mates issues that don't relate to the plot.

If they don't want to help me without resolving their daddy issues and personal life drama then gtfo and I'll find someone else as I'm not there to resolve their personal lives, I had a goal and am looking for people willing to help achieve that of which if they were not willing to do in first place then I don't want them regardless. Also if they do wish to help then they should be giving it their all throughout without the need to pander to them else again I don't want them and they can leave, I'll replace with someone who will give it their all without the need to resolve their personal issues.

One other thing is I agree with Smudbuy, my plan of action and what should of been about is collecting information or finding evidence and not blowing everything up all the time especially with regard to the dormant dead repear which had been there for millenia. You have it's location so inform council and each race of it's location that is the proof reapers exist which was point of the entire first game.

I would never work with Cerberus by choice and the moment I was magically pixie dust remade I would have tied up Miranda and either shot or captured Jacob and took their shuttle gone found my old ex-comrades using alliance information instead of TiM's followed by pumping M and J for information about Cerberus of which then luanched attack against them which would probably lead me to TiM of which then force him to give up all information that he knew or atleast data might have on reapers or collectors. To destory the collector base defeats the entire point of the game. Stopping one ship/base does not and will not stop the Reapers.

The place where you were rebuilt would of salvaged the data from there about bringing people back from the dead alone would have funded (if sold) to make a new Normandy. ME1 plot was far, FAR superior to ME2 plot, now that doesn't mean ME2 wasn't fun in parts or some missions wern't enjoyable but the plot and progressions during it was "ugh" to me.

However I will state that I think ME3 will be vastly better than the first two (fingers crossed) in almost all aspects (other than my own personal dislike for planet scanning).

Then again stating any opinion on here is blasphemy to some fans. They will attack you on everything no matter how valid or non-valid because they view Bioware or certain franchises almost like a religion hence the term fanatic is used alot around BSN but they are fanatical about it so the term applies quite well.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 05:17 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ME2 [felt] like Pokemon in space. Loyalty missions are/were stupid as far plot goes (imho) as I have said before either they want to help you or they don't. I am not happy about solving what I consider (and I felt Smudboy got right) that it is a collection of daddy issues and pointless pandering into lives of crew mates issues that don't relate to the plot.

If they don't want to help me without resolving their daddy issues and personal life drama then gtfo and I'll find someone else as I'm not there to resolve their personal lives, I had a goal and am looking for people willing to help achieve that of which if they were not willing to do in first place then I don't want them regardless. Also if they do wish to help then they should be giving it their all throughout without the need to pander to them else again I don't want them and they can leave, I'll replace with someone who will give it their all without the need to resolve their personal issues.

You do know you have the choice not to do those loyalty missions if your Shepard "feels" that way.  You can say no.  You might not get a really good ending with everyone surviving, but that's because of your urge to get the best result possible.  A lot of people would be more loyal to a Commander that helped them out personally or seen as a mentor.  That's how real life military coups happen or how a real life leader inspires people to his/her side.

Above and beyond the call of duty if you will.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 05:10 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ME2 [felt] like Pokemon in space. Loyalty missions are/were stupid as far plot goes (imho) as I have said before either they want to help you or they don't. I am not happy about solving what I consider (and I felt Smudboy got right) that it is a collection of daddy issues and pointless pandering into lives of crew mates issues that don't relate to the plot.

If they don't want to help me without resolving their daddy issues and personal life drama then gtfo and I'll find someone else as I'm not there to resolve their personal lives, I had a goal and am looking for people willing to help achieve that of which if they were not willing to do in first place then I don't want them regardless. Also if they do wish to help then they should be giving it their all throughout without the need to pander to them else again I don't want them and they can leave, I'll replace with someone who will give it their all without the need to resolve their personal issues.

You do know you have the choice not to do those loyalty missions if your Shepard "feels" that way.  You can say no.  You might not get a really good ending with everyone surviving, but that's because of your urge to get the best result possible.  A lot of people would be more loyal to a Commander that helped them out personally or seen as a mentor.  That's how real life military coups happen or how a real life leader inspires people to his/her side.

Above and beyond the call of duty if you will.

Which is the point, they serve no purpose and if the crew is not loyal to begin with then they will not be part of my crew. That is what I was talking about. To be punished with their deaths because you didn't resolve their daddy issues is the reason why I said it was silly or stupid. If they are not talented enough or focused enough from the offset why would I keep them around at all, I wouldn't instead I would go find someone more competant who doesn't have 'issues'.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 05:13 .

[vader da slayer]

@Dragon no one will be loyal to you if they a) dno't really know your and b)just met you. loyalty is something earned, which is what the loyalty missions were.

and (not at you dragon) anytime I see someone make a vid/thread/post etc ripping apart a piece of media (w/e type) I always ask them that if they are so good at it why haven't they done it? like I mean seriously ME2 wasn't as bad as Smudboy and others tries to make it out to be as is obvious from its 160+ goty/best awards.

[Recon Member]

Ugh smudboy...

[AlexMBrennan]

That one again... Let's just agree that BW writers should get a dictionary to look up difficult words (like "gender", "sex", "loyalty"), OK?

[Remus Artega]

Eradyn wrote...

Threads like these remind me why I rarely visit the BSN anymore. Rampant and unashamed ass-kissing, personal threats, immaturity and embarrassingly unprofessional behavior from professionals who should know better, attacks against any deemed "other," and a self-righteous indignation that anyone might dare attack or criticize the sacred cow.

I enjoyed the ME series, but if someone has criticisms of the game, or a different opinion than me, they aren't necessarily invalid and they have the right to state their mind. There is room for improvements in the ME series and people should be open to listening and addressing whatever criticisms or suggestions are offered. Such feedback is far more useful to developing an improved gaming experience in the future than blind fanboyism that celebrates mediocrity and outright crap (not saying ME has displayed this) to a project's detriment. If people are attacking this guy personally, and not addressing his points, then that speaks volumes of this community...and that a BW employee jumped in for a passive aggressive swipe is incredibly shameful. I have long-since ceased expecting better from this particular BW studio, however.

+1 this should be carved in stone

[Dragoonlordz]

vader da slayer wrote...

@Dragon no one will be loyal to you if they a) dno't really know your and b)just met you. loyalty is something earned, which is what the loyalty missions were.

and (not at you dragon) anytime I see someone make a vid/thread/post etc ripping apart a piece of media (w/e type) I always ask them that if they are so good at it why haven't they done it? like I mean seriously ME2 wasn't as bad as Smudboy and others tries to make it out to be as is obvious from its 160+ goty/best awards.

The only two levels of loyalty that matter is a) will they turn on you are they focused enough to do their job. If they have issues that make them lose focus then I don't want them around to begin with as to me it means they are so scatter minded that they are putting their personal issues above the mission. They are supposed to be hardened assassins, mercenarys and such yet they apparently are so incompetant that a single issue will save or dam them on the battlefield. Those kind of people I would not want on my team to begin with. Alternatively if have doubts about loyalty to begin with and feel they 'could' turn on you again would not be part of team from the offset. My shepard wasn't looking or friends just 'capable' soldiers to carry out a mission, if those soldiers are so easily phased that not helping someone find his daddy or helping his son will get them killed then why would I want them on the missions in first place.

As for when people say it's worst game etc, it's not the worst game it is just subpar plot and story wise (imho) to the original former title and I believe when also comparing to the next title ME3 again ME2 will be subpar in comparrison. The reason why ME2 sold so well is simply because it's a fun game which has little baring on whether the plot or story was a masterpiece as something does not have to be so in order to be fun and worthy of purchase.

[Someone With Mass]

I would've found unquestionable loyalty from the squadmates from the beginning to be far more unbelievable than the loyalty missions.

At least you're giving them a reason to be loyal to you, because about 90% of the squadmates joins up with you to stop the Collectors, nothing else. They don't give a rat's ass about what you think of them. You have to earn their trust.

[Balek-Vriege]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ME2 [felt] like Pokemon in space. Loyalty missions are/were stupid as far plot goes (imho) as I have said before either they want to help you or they don't. I am not happy about solving what I consider (and I felt Smudboy got right) that it is a collection of daddy issues and pointless pandering into lives of crew mates issues that don't relate to the plot.

If they don't want to help me without resolving their daddy issues and personal life drama then gtfo and I'll find someone else as I'm not there to resolve their personal lives, I had a goal and am looking for people willing to help achieve that of which if they were not willing to do in first place then I don't want them regardless. Also if they do wish to help then they should be giving it their all throughout without the need to pander to them else again I don't want them and they can leave, I'll replace with someone who will give it their all without the need to resolve their personal issues.

You do know you have the choice not to do those loyalty missions if your Shepard "feels" that way.  You can say no.  You might not get a really good ending with everyone surviving, but that's because of your urge to get the best result possible.  A lot of people would be more loyal to a Commander that helped them out personally or seen as a mentor.  That's how real life military coups happen or how a real life leader inspires people to his/her side.

Above and beyond the call of duty if you will.

Which is the point, they serve no purpose and if the crew is not loyal to begin with then they will not be part of my crew. That is what I was talking about. To be punished with their deaths because you didn't resolve their daddy issues is the reason why I said it was silly or stupid. If they are not talented enough or focused enough from the offset why would I keep them around at all, I wouldn't instead I would go find someone more competant who doesn't have 'issues'.

I would argue that it's not silly and it's not babysitting.  It is a suicide mission and the recuiting missions are completely fine when it comes to getting the job done.  The loyalty missions are that added inspiration from Shepard which makes the team more like a family working together (such a corny thing to say).  You don't even have to recruit all the members either and realistically that should hurt you when you don't.  Not all the loyalty missions are really about doing nice things for squad members.  A lot of it has to do with tying up loose ends, ego, revenge, redemption, forgiveness etc.  When those are done not only do your Squaddies have no regrets, they actually respect Shepard for who he/she is and as a leader.

Don't get too hung up on the Death thing though, it's a gameplay mechanic not writing/story.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 05:39 .

[Babli]

Eradyn wrote...

Threads like these remind me why I rarely visit the BSN anymore. Rampant and unashamed ass-kissing, personal threats, immaturity and embarrassingly unprofessional behavior from professionals who should know better, attacks against any deemed "other," and a self-righteous indignation that anyone might dare attack or criticize the sacred cow.

I enjoyed the ME series, but if someone has criticisms of the game, or a different opinion than me, they aren't necessarily invalid and they have the right to state their mind. There is room for improvements in the ME series and people should be open to listening and addressing whatever criticisms or suggestions are offered. Such feedback is far more useful to developing an improved gaming experience in the future than blind fanboyism that celebrates mediocrity and outright crap (not saying ME has displayed this) to a project's detriment. If people are attacking this guy personally, and not addressing his points, then that speaks volumes of this community...and that a BW employee jumped in for a passive aggressive swipe is incredibly shameful. I have long-since ceased expecting better from this particular BW studio, however.

[littlezack]

Eradyn wrote...

Threads like these remind me why I rarely visit the BSN anymore. Rampant and unashamed ass-kissing, personal threats, immaturity and embarrassingly unprofessional behavior from professionals who should know better, attacks against any deemed "other," and a self-righteous indignation that anyone might dare attack or criticize the sacred cow.

Oh, please. You can find a lot more examples around here of people criticizing the games than praise, and it's typically to the same tune - like this thread, bringing up a video that's been covered time and again months ago. Most of the stuff on this forum is negative, and when people argue the points, they get accused of being blind fanboys or idiots.<_<

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to tell you how damn sick I am of hearing it.

Modifié par littlezack, 28 août 2011 - 05:51 .

[Eradyn]

littlezack wrote...

Oh, please. You can find a lot more examples around here of people criticizing the games than praise, and it's typically to the same tune - like this thread, bringing up a video that's been covered time and again months ago. Most of the stuff on this forum is negative, and when people argue the points, they get accused of being blind fanboys or idiots.<_<

Yes, these forums are full of negativity from both sides of the aisle.  Doesn't render my point moot, however.

Modifié par Eradyn, 28 août 2011 - 05:51 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Babli wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Threads like these remind me why I rarely visit the BSN anymore. Rampant and unashamed ass-kissing, personal threats, immaturity and embarrassingly unprofessional behavior from professionals who should know better, attacks against any deemed "other," and a self-righteous indignation that anyone might dare attack or criticize the sacred cow.

I enjoyed the ME series, but if someone has criticisms of the game, or a different opinion than me, they aren't necessarily invalid and they have the right to state their mind. There is room for improvements in the ME series and people should be open to listening and addressing whatever criticisms or suggestions are offered. Such feedback is far more useful to developing an improved gaming experience in the future than blind fanboyism that celebrates mediocrity and outright crap (not saying ME has displayed this) to a project's detriment. If people are attacking this guy personally, and not addressing his points, then that speaks volumes of this community...and that a BW employee jumped in for a passive aggressive swipe is incredibly shameful. I have long-since ceased expecting better from this particular BW studio, however.

When I first started reading that post I thought the guy was taking the high-road.  However, in the last paragraph he pretty much attacks people making valid points against this whole worst story ever thing ( "blind fanboyism that celebrates mediocrity and outright crap (not saying ME has displayed this) to a project's detriment" ) and labeling the whole community as bad.  Not exactly the high road and bit like calling the kettle black.  Plus this is one of the better official forums out there.

He also misses the point that there's fair criticism everyday on these forums which does in fact help Bioware.  What people are attacking is blind criticism from a certain person that doesn't help.  The same way blind fanboyism exists.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[littlezack]

Eradyn wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Oh, please. You can find a lot more examples around here of people criticizing the games than praise, and it's typically to the same tune - like this thread, bringing up a video that's been covered time and again months ago. Most of the stuff on this forum is negative, and when people argue the points, they get accused of being blind fanboys or idiots.<_<

Yes, these forums are full of negativity from both sides of the aisle.  Doesn't render my point moot, however.

Perhaps not, and yes, there's a lot of vitriol on both sides. But I think there's something especially wrong with people who complain about the lack of RPG elements in ME3, then, instead of going to a topic showcasing what RPG elements ME3 has to offer and giving voice there, decide to instead making the 1000th omni-blade hate topic or post a three month old video from some guy on Youtube.

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Because he's right and they can't admit it?

"Mass Effect 2 has one of the worst plots in the history of gaming sequels."

A single page that describes the game and its story was actually enough for many developers until recent decades.

Whatever you say Lotion, whatever you say.

I see little wrong with smudboy really. I see a lot of wrong with people attacking him because he DARED to put in question the writing/plot of ME2.

That's actually what you want to believe.

People dislike him because he insults them for disagreeing with him all the time. It's difficult to get to his actual argument without disliking him.

Even if Smudboy's arguments held some base, which they definitely don't do at all times, disliking him for being obnoxious, arrogant and immediately insulting to everyone who even politely disagrees with him, is a perfectly valid reason. There are multiple other plot analysts with at least a high school understanding of physics and better behavior that are not criticized at all.

However, defending him, because he criticized ME2, even though he is an ***hole, is what blind favoritism is all about.

[Guldhun2]

Phaedon wrote...

Even if Smudboy's arguments held some base, which they definitely don't do at all times, disliking him for being obnoxious, arrogant and immediately insulting to everyone who even politely disagrees with him, is a perfectly valid reason. There are multiple other plot analysts with at least a high school understanding of physics and better behavior that are not criticized at all.

However, defending him, because he criticized ME2, even though he is an ***hole, is what blind favoritism is all about.

Fourth time i'm asking, but which argument doesn't hold?

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What obnoxious attitude?

Maybe you have an averion to well reasoned posts and use of vocabulary. Or maybe his voice irritates you. Whatever the case, I see worse attitude on a daily basis here on BSN. And plenty of it is yours.

Well reasoned posts? Smudboy? No, not really. If they were well-reasoned, he wouldn't need to end up insulting everyone. It's why every time he fails at defending an argument the thread must be locked, or would have Pacifien look over the continuation of the debates he had been a part of.

He's obnoxious because he:

• He states hollow statements as facts with no further explanation (such as: Mass Effect 2 has no story, or x sucks, Paragons are retarded, the Hammerhead needs to go, etc)
• He uses a very specific type of music (obviously) for ironic reasons.
• He used to randomly spam various topics with ironic comments.
• He maintains an ironic stance and does not accept the points of others.

[Phaedon]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Even if Smudboy's arguments held some base, which they definitely don't do at all times, disliking him for being obnoxious, arrogant and immediately insulting to everyone who even politely disagrees with him, is a perfectly valid reason. There are multiple other plot analysts with at least a high school understanding of physics and better behavior that are not criticized at all.

However, defending him, because he criticized ME2, even though he is an ***hole, is what blind favoritism is all about.

Fourth time i'm asking, but which argument doesn't hold?

And I even made a list of the topics you should search, where I have maintained debates for weeks with him. The fact that you didn't make any effort to search them is your problem, and your problem alone.

If you want something right now, repeat the points Squee asks when Smudboy "answers" them and actually talks about a different topic.

[Bcuz]

Saphra, assuming you're still reading this, I would just like you to know that while I agree with you on almost nothing you've ever posted, you always make threads at least 30% more entertaining to read.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Bcuz wrote...

Saphra, assuming you're still reading this, I would just like you to know that while I agree with you on almost nothing you've ever posted, you always make threads at least 30% more entertaining to read.