6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeranx]

Nashiktal wrote...

If it was EA in ME2, I am hoping they realized their mistake in rushing products (ME2 and DA2) and decided to let Bioware push it back somewhat.

Of course that is assuming it is EA.

It seems developers such as EA function with the terrible idea (I think it is at least) of getting new projects out the door as fast as possible.  I would think if you're worried about how much money you threw in you'd be more careful that the money was properly spent.  Seeing what ME2 became for me I can only shake my head at the money spent for a Mass Effect commercial during the Superbowl.  To me that's insanity and I feel their money would go to better use if they just gave it to me.  I could build a house and take care of my parents with the amount of cash they threw out.

[TuringPoint]

Nashiktal wrote...

I agree with you for the most part. Bioware does a great job with immersion, which is why ME2 confuses me all the more. ME2 just shift gears in such a way that can sometimes be immersion breaking.

Like that shuttle ride to nowhere. When I did legions quest, I did it last. So my team had nowhere to go, nothing to do. No quests to undertake... Just loading up all twelve squadmates, some pretty big I might add, into that tiny shuttle and off into space. Then that human reaper... That was... Different. Then the death and resurection, not so much the death itself, but how it was handled.

I just wonder why. Was it because Drew left and Mac had to pick up the slack so suddenly? Were the writing teams not communicating enough? (That happened in ME1 as well) What was the problem, and how can it be fixed? How can it be avoided in the future?

I was actually saying I found ME2 to be one of their most immersive games.  I will stand back and appreciate that you feel like that immersion was broken repeatedly, it wasn't for me and I have reasons it wasn't that would counter every reason you have for legitly not being as impressed with the game.

Judging from what bioware has said about the making of ME2, I'd say the problem is planning.  Perhaps too much planning, to the point where they forget how little the audience knows about what they were thinking and planning.  They convinced themselves of the continuity and immersiveness of the plot; and that was enough.

Also, smudboy is a critic who can't take his own medicine.  This is not a smudboy fanboy thread; but a response to and thoughts about his analyses.

Modifié par Alocormin, 05 septembre 2011 - 01:44 .

[KotorEffect3]

Nashiktal wrote...

If it was EA in ME2, I am hoping they realized their mistake in rushing products (ME2 and DA2) and decided to let Bioware push it back somewhat.

Of course that is assuming it is EA.

I really would like to know how ME 2 is rushed, you not liking it does not make it rushed. 

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 05 septembre 2011 - 01:44 .

[Nashiktal]

Well I would love to, but I already did. :|

Modifié par Nashiktal, 05 septembre 2011 - 01:50 .

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Every game has a budget and deadline. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game of decent length that doesn't reuse models or have some bad quests.

The lacklustre main missions in ME2 has nothing to do with budget. That's simply the writers. It was a middle chapter and they decided that the main mission wasn't the central focus - such as with the seven samuri or dirty dozen. That's legitimate, imo. However, they still could have done more with the main missions and I don't blame that on EA.

The game definitely needed either 1) More main story missions or 2) more squad dialogue.

I mean, is the focus supposed to be the Collectors or the squad?  The mission or the team?  Instead of picking one we have neither.  Three "main misssions" between Freedoms Progress and the Suicide mission and a slew of loyalty missions that only focuses on one squad member at a time.  Not whast  I'd call team-building.  More like well-done side quests.

[KotorEffect3]

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

[bduff4545]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

[KotorEffect3]

lol

[dreman9999]

100k wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

If it was EA in ME2, I am hoping they realized their mistake in rushing products (ME2 and DA2) and decided to let Bioware push it back somewhat.

Of course that is assuming it is EA.

*glances at ME2*

I understand DA2 but ME2? I understand that some people dislike the DIRECTION of the franchise and they were some lazy writing here and there but I don't see how ME2 was necessarily rushed. 

If so, then ME2 was damn impressive for rushed game... 

Hey, I agree 100%. Its damned impressive for what it had. But if it had had an extra six months...

*evil laugh*

The suicide mission...the very beginning and end were rushed. They could of done better.

[SpiffySquee]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Because despite what you think of the man himself, the points he raises are valid critiques. You are dismissing his critiques because you don't like the man, so why are you trying to be a part of this discussion?

If you don't like him, fine we are not forcing you to talk about him, but we will discuss the flaws of Mass Effect 2 so that Bioware can improve for the next game and beyond.

Thing is, for every valid point Smuddy has, he has ten that are based on half the facts, blatant misunderstanding, and deliberate ignorance of anything that runs counter to his opinion.  He gets half of something, works up a quick and negative commentary, and runs with it to the bitter end, no matter what factual counterpoint someone might present.   He hides the weakness of his arguements with arrogance, condescension, and postmodernist lit-crit word avalanches.

A perfect illustration of this and one of the reasons people harp on Smud's presentation so much is in his response to my videos



starting at 19:54

I assert that Cerberus making an army of Zaeeds would not really fit the way they do things and could provoke a response form the council. They are already on bad terms and if the Council saw Cerberus creating a large army, I doubt they would just sit back and let it happen. His response is to show the Normandy with the Cerberus symbol fly past the Citadel and say "uh-huh".

Now the point is not how valid you think my argument may or may not be, or if you have a counter against it. The point is that his response:

A) has nothing to do with my argument. The council allowing one ship with the Cerberus symbol on it land at the citadel when it has committed no crime in no way shape or form shows their unwillingness take action if Cerberus made an army. Unless you honestly think one ship should provoke the same response an army would. Hell, I could drive a car with an Al-qaeda symbol all day long. No one could arrest me for it.  (or at least for any length of time) If I show up with an Army on the other hand....

The counter is presented in such a way that it implies I did not see the obvious and that he does not even have to try to refute such a silly argument. In other words, in one "Uh-Huh" he is arrogantly implying that I don't have a clue what I am talking about and a three second clip that has nothing to do with anything is all that is needed to show I'm wrong.

My argument was not only completely hand-waved, but done so in a condescending way. People keep saying that he makes good points despite the way he presents them. It is true that the points are valid or not regardless of the presentation, but that does not mean presentation is irrelevant. When trying to convince someone of your views, HOW you present them is just as important as what you present.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 05 septembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[SpiffySquee]

bduff4545 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

Can you believe someone actually said only if I work there too? As if making a silly little video on the internet makes either of us qualified to develop video games...

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 05 septembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Every game has a budget and deadline. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game of decent length that doesn't reuse models or have some bad quests.

The lacklustre main missions in ME2 has nothing to do with budget. That's simply the writers. It was a middle chapter and they decided that the main mission wasn't the central focus - such as with the seven samuri or dirty dozen. That's legitimate, imo. However, they still could have done more with the main missions and I don't blame that on EA.

The game definitely needed either 1) More main story missions or 2) more squad dialogue.

I mean, is the focus supposed to be the Collectors or the squad?  The mission or the team?  Instead of picking one we have neither.  Three "main misssions" between Freedoms Progress and the Suicide mission and a slew of loyalty missions that only focuses on one squad member at a time.  Not whast  I'd call team-building.  More like well-done side quests.

The rushed portion, to me ,is the collector attack nomady/crew abduction . What if they made that different. What if you had to do one last refiting on the normandy to install the reaper IFF and you had to go to a cerberus space station to do it.
The crew get some r&r as they wait to have it installed and the ship rechecked for the final mission. You can have moment with your crew and love interest at that time.....Then suddenly, something goes wrong and the reapers show up due to the bug on the iff. The EDI is unshackled by Joker and forced the normandy flee so it not destoryed . But you and the crew sre still stuck on the station with the collectors forcing their way in. You split the squad to fight their way to the escape pods.
 On your way you meet a controled collector who is divided from you in another room and only see through the window between the room. Harbinger sheaksto you giving the face to face converstion with a reaper which harbinger tries to get Shepard to work with the reapers.
Naturally, Shep would say no and escape, fighting his way to the escape pods that land on the planet below. Once there he tries to get to his squad and any serviver form the space station, fighting the life there on his way to each pod and signaling Joker. Soon the collectors land and attack you. You fight them till the normady comes in a rescues you. Only to find it they have time to to the fire squad mates of the crew. And you Leave them to save your self for the final mission.Leaving you choose to continue to get  ready for the final mission or go gun-ho into the omega 4 relay to save your crew.
That would be way better then what we got in ME2 for the start of the last mission.

[Sgt Stryker]

bduff4545 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

Heh, if he worked at BioWare and had any influence on the design process, ME3 would be vaporware.

[Sgt Stryker]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Every game has a budget and deadline. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game of decent length that doesn't reuse models or have some bad quests.

The lacklustre main missions in ME2 has nothing to do with budget. That's simply the writers. It was a middle chapter and they decided that the main mission wasn't the central focus - such as with the seven samuri or dirty dozen. That's legitimate, imo. However, they still could have done more with the main missions and I don't blame that on EA.

The game definitely needed either 1) More main story missions or 2) more squad dialogue.

I mean, is the focus supposed to be the Collectors or the squad?  The mission or the team?  Instead of picking one we have neither.  Three "main misssions" between Freedoms Progress and the Suicide mission and a slew of loyalty missions that only focuses on one squad member at a time.  Not whast  I'd call team-building.  More like well-done side quests.

The rushed portion, to me ,is the collector attack nomady/crew abduction . What if they made that different. What if you had to do one last refiting on the normandy to install the reaper IFF and you had to go to a cerberus space station to do it.
The crew get some r&r as they wait to have it installed and the ship rechecked for the final mission. You can have moment with your crew and love interest at that time.....Then suddenly, something goes wrong and the reapers show up due to the bug on the iff. The EDI is unshackled by Joker and forced the normandy flee so it not destoryed . But you and the crew sre still stuck on the station with the collectors forcing their way in. You split the squad to fight their way to the escape pods.
 On your way you meet a controled collector who is divided from you in another room and only see through the window between the room. Harbinger sheaksto you giving the face to face converstion with a reaper which harbinger tries to get Shepard to work with the reapers.
Naturally, Shep would say no and escape, fighting his way to the escape pods that land on the planet below. Once there he tries to get to his squad and any serviver form the space station, fighting the life there on his way to each pod and signaling Joker. Soon the collectors land and attack you. You fight them till the normady comes in a rescues you. Only to find it they have time to to the fire squad mates of the crew. And you Leave them to save your self for the final mission.Leaving you choose to continue to get  ready for the final mission or go gun-ho into the omega 4 relay to save your crew.
That would be way better then what we got in ME2 for the start of the last mission.

I would say virtually ANY scenario anyone here can think of would be more plausible than what we got in the actual game.

[dreman9999]

Sgt Stryker wrote...



I would say virtually ANY scenario anyone here can think of would be more plausible than what we got in the actual game.

No, the game story is fine. What ever problem anyone has is just with understanding the characters motivations, lore, and events in the story. Most of the things complained about  are minior stuff with awnsers if you look.

[Xeranx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...



I would say virtually ANY scenario anyone here can think of would be more plausible than what we got in the actual game.

No, the game story is fine. What ever problem anyone has is just with understanding the characters motivations, lore, and events in the story. Most of the things complained about  are minior stuff with awnsers if you look.

You brought this up before and I'm wondering which characters and motivations are you talking about?

[bduff4545]

SpiffySquee wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

Can you believe someone actually said only if I work there too? As if making a silly little video on the internet makes either of us qualified to develop video games...

Hey man I take offense I have some good ideas about how to make a better mass effect game, in a way I'm better than Smudboy:

1.) An option for Shepard to engage in three ways
2.) I WANT TEH GOD MODE IN ME
3.) Shepard should be able to buy and wear power ranger armor
4.) Side mission where you play as DJ Harbinger
5.) Shepard needs a good catch phrase like "Asta-la-reaper baby"
6.) There should be an option for fem shep and TIM to have a baby
 I hope you take a look at this next time when you make a game in the ME series Bioware /sarcasm
I just made smudboy's ideas for ME irrelevant cuz mine are the bestest:wizard:

[SpiffySquee]

bduff4545 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

Can you believe someone actually said only if I work there too? As if making a silly little video on the internet makes either of us qualified to develop video games...

Hey man I take offense I have some good ideas about how to make a better mass effect game, in a way I'm better than Smudboy:

1.) An option for Shepard to engage in three ways
2.) I WANT TEH GOD MODE IN ME
3.) Shepard should be able to buy and wear power ranger armor
4.) Side mission where you play as DJ Harbinger
5.) Shepard needs a good catch phrase like "Asta-la-reaper baby"
6.) There should be an option for fem shep and TIM to have a baby
 I hope you take a look at this next time when you make a game in the ME series Bioware /sarcasm
I just made smudboy's ideas for ME irrelevant cuz mine are the bestest:wizard:

And change what ship Tali comes from so she is Tali Vas Imma-Dorable<3

[dreman9999]

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...



I would say virtually ANY scenario anyone here can think of would be more plausible than what we got in the actual game.

No, the game story is fine. What ever problem anyone has is just with understanding the characters motivations, lore, and events in the story. Most of the things complained about  are minior stuff with awnsers if you look.

You brought this up before and I'm wondering which characters and motivations are you talking about?

Example:TIM...His character ties everything together. He had 2 goals, uplift humanity to the point of total dominace wheather humanity wants it or not and to stop the reapers. These goals drive him in all his choice, from reviving Shepard to whom he picks to be recuited. Everthing he does has these goals in mind no matter what. He's basicly Saren with out be inducinated and using human way of doing things, aka being underhanded and crafty. Ifyou understand this about him, then you understand everything he's doing.No matter what he dose...theirs a catch.

Samara: She is one giant greek tragity. Everything she does is about pentence. She blame herself for whathappen to her daught who she loves to deathand is punishing herself by killing her herself. She gave birth to the monster and understand why the  does what she does. And she loves the child she gave birth to but that child is killing other people as a monster. And the only way to stop her child is death. Samara became a justicar because because she wanted no way out of the confuntion outside killing her daughter. She even cut away from any form of confort so she can carry the burden herself.

....I could go on but I don't want to write paper on this right now.

[KotorEffect3]

Smugboy would be a terrible hire. Fortunatly Bioware knows better.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

SpiffySquee wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drops Smudboy's name in a thread title again for a very long time.

'
I am actually, it's gonna be called "Smudboy the genius who should work at Bioware"....oh wait someone beat me to it.

Can you believe someone actually said only if I work there too? As if making a silly little video on the internet makes either of us qualified to develop video games...

Hey man I take offense I have some good ideas about how to make a better mass effect game, in a way I'm better than Smudboy:

1.) An option for Shepard to engage in three ways
2.) I WANT TEH GOD MODE IN ME
3.) Shepard should be able to buy and wear power ranger armor
4.) Side mission where you play as DJ Harbinger
5.) Shepard needs a good catch phrase like "Asta-la-reaper baby"
6.) There should be an option for fem shep and TIM to have a baby
 I hope you take a look at this next time when you make a game in the ME series Bioware /sarcasm
I just made smudboy's ideas for ME irrelevant cuz mine are the bestest:wizard:

And change what ship Tali comes from so she is Tali Vas Imma-Dorable<3

And remove Jack's straps,put spikes on Grunt's armor so he looks like a road warrior,and Miranda doesn't have nearly enough wedgie,  and I want to ride around the Citadel in a golf cart.

[Wrathra]

bduff4545 wrote...

...

5.) Shepard needs a good catch phrase like "Asta-la-reaper baby"

...

I think I love you.

[Almostfaceman]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
And remove Jack's straps,put spikes on Grunt's armor so he looks like a road warrior,and Miranda doesn't have nearly enough wedgie,  and I want to ride around the Citadel in a golf cart.

Yes a golf cart, screw the Mako you can't get through the doorways.

[Iakus]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Smugboy would be a terrible hire. Fortunatly Bioware knows better.

I sense much hate in this one...

[bduff4545]

iakus wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Smugboy would be a terrible hire. Fortunatly Bioware knows better.

I sense much hate in this one...

You kidding...Smudboy get's my vote;)