6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What obnoxious attitude?

Maybe you have an averion to well reasoned posts and use of vocabulary. Or maybe his voice irritates you. Whatever the case, I see worse attitude on a daily basis here on BSN. And plenty of it is yours.

Well reasoned posts? Smudboy? No, not really. If they were well-reasoned, he wouldn't need to end up insulting everyone. It's why every time he fails at defending an argument the thread must be locked, or would have Pacifien look over the continuation of the debates he had been a part of.

He's obnoxious because he:

• He states hollow statements as facts with no further explanation (such as: Mass Effect 2 has no story, or x sucks, Paragons are retarded, the Hammerhead needs to go, etc)
• He uses a very specific type of music (obviously) for ironic reasons.
• He used to randomly spam various topics with ironic comments.
• He maintains an ironic stance and does not accept the points of others.

Let me also add that his idea of debating involves asking an irrelevant question that does not actually constitute a rebuttal. Based on what I have observed, that is.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 28 août 2011 - 06:13 .

[Xeranx]

100k wrote...

*My changes are not to make ME2 different from the original game-- merely to expand upon the appropriate content in the game. Don't think of this as "100k's Mass Effect 2 fix". Think of it as "Mass Effect 2: Directors Cut."

***snip***

Modifié par Xeranx, 28 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

I would argue that it's not silly and it's not babysitting.  It is a suicide mission and the recuiting missions are completely fine when it comes to getting the job done.  The loyalty missions are that added inspiration from Shepard which makes the team more like a family working together (such a corny thing to say).  You don't even have to recruit all the members either and realistically that should hurt you when you don't.  Not all the loyalty missions are really about doing nice things for squad members.  A lot of it has to do with tying up loose ends, ego, revenge, redemption, forgiveness etc.  When those are done not only do your Squaddies have no regrets, they actually respect Shepard for who he/she is and as a leader.

Don't get too hung up on the Death thing though, it's a gameplay mechanic not writing/story.

They are mercenaries and assassins etc they are not family or friends. Changing that relationship puts at risk the entire mission from the offset as they worry about their lovers, friends and companions. The recruitment missions are fine but the loyalty ones are pointless in sense all Shephard was during those missions was an extra set of guns and someone who delivered them to the destination after which interferred in their choices, the issues themselves did not need Shepard or create anymore loyalty for the simple reason one way or another the issues would have been resolved if the crew mate had gone either alone or with hired guns and the only difference is whether the choice that companion made was same one Shepard would have made therefore being 'liked'.

A vast amount of single person murder cases are friends or lovers killing each other, turning his crew into a emotional tree hug group could have far worse results. They were hired to do a job if they feel they cannot do that job then they shouldn't be there. If they feel they need emotional hand held or can't focus on the mission at hand again don't come along. Supposed to be professionals but seem like amateurs.

It then comes down to if they are required to like you to follow your orders then they shouldn't be there. Also loyalty should have no baring on competence resulting in death. Either they are competent or they are not and if not then again should not be there.

I know my opinion is not the popular one but it's how I view what occured / situation in game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Let me also add that his idea of debating involves asking an irrelevant question that does not actually constitute a rebuttal. Based on what I have observed, that is.

And of course you can't provide me a correct example of your baseless acusation, or do you?

Modifié par Fixers0, 28 août 2011 - 06:32 .

[littlezack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

I would argue that it's not silly and it's not babysitting.  It is a suicide mission and the recuiting missions are completely fine when it comes to getting the job done.  The loyalty missions are that added inspiration from Shepard which makes the team more like a family working together (such a corny thing to say).  You don't even have to recruit all the members either and realistically that should hurt you when you don't.  Not all the loyalty missions are really about doing nice things for squad members.  A lot of it has to do with tying up loose ends, ego, revenge, redemption, forgiveness etc.  When those are done not only do your Squaddies have no regrets, they actually respect Shepard for who he/she is and as a leader.

Don't get too hung up on the Death thing though, it's a gameplay mechanic not writing/story.

They are mercenaries and assassins etc they are not family or friends. Changing that relationship puts at risk the entire mission from the offset as they worry about their lovers, friends and companions. The recruitment missions are fine but the loyalty ones are pointless in sense all Shephard was during those missions was an extra set of guns and someone who delivered them to the destination after which interferred in their choices, the issues themselves did not need Shepard or create anymore loyalty for the simple reason one way or another the issues would have been resolved if the crew mate had gone either alone or with hired guns and the only difference is whether the choice that companion made was same one Shepard would have made therefore being 'liked'.

It then comes down to if they are required to like you to follow your orders then they shouldn't be there. Also loyalty should have no baring on competence resulting in death. Either they are competent or they are not and if not then again should not be there.

Let's see. I need to go into a combat situation. I could either hire mercs, go by myself, or have the baddest badass in the history of badasses tag along with me. Decisisions, decisions...

Anyway, the loyalty missions are more about getting them mentally ready for the suicide mission. Even the most professional people have private lives, and if something significant happens - say, for instance, getting a message from a father you haven't seen in decades - it can be a little distracting. You can just skip the missions, but that cuts down on their combat effectiveness for the mission - they have to be 100% focused, and even if their real life crap is taking away a smidge of that, it's too much.

[Dragoonlordz]

littlezack wrote...

Let's see. I need to go into a combat situation. I could either hire mercs, go by myself, or have the baddest badass in the history of badasses tag along with me. Decisisions, decisions...

Anyway, the loyalty missions are more about getting them mentally ready for the suicide mission. Even the most professional people have private lives, and if something significant happens - say, for instance, getting a message from a father you haven't seen in decades - it can be a little distracting. You can just skip the missions, but that cuts down on their combat effectiveness for the mission - they have to be 100% focused, and even if their real life crap is taking away a smidge of that, it's too much.

If they have an issue arise in which puts their competence at risk I would not decide to pander and go resolve it for them on a whim. I would replace them with someone who hasn't had their daddy send them a letter or child got into trouble, If fact it's funny that Shepard must be the most unlucky commander in the universe not only for Reaper situations and dying and brought back to life stuff, but the simple fact it's funny how every one of his crew of "professionals" all seemed to get an [issue] or [family matter] just suddenly pop up in the very short time spent together instead of the decades they were around prior they could of resolved it. You boss doesn't come around you house and bake you cookies I assume whenever you catch a cold and the fact he does not doesn't make you less focused at work.


As I said...

If it comes down to they are required to like you to follow your orders then they shouldn't be there. Also loyalty should have no baring on competence resulting in death. Either they are competent or they are not and if not then again should not be there.

I know my opinion is not the popular one but it's how I view what occured / situation in game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 06:33 .

[Han Shot First]

nexworks wrote...

I swear there's a smudboy post like this every month.

*searches BSN forums for "smudboy"*

Oh, it's been 2 months since the last one. That's an improvement, I guess.

That's because Smudboy creates sock puppet accounts to log on here and self promote. He pretends to be some new user who is enamored by the 'genius' of smudboy, and posts links to his latest rant.

What a sad, lonely cellar-dweller he must be. I'm not sure whether I should laugh at or pity him.

[Iakus]

Fixers0 wrote...

When the message doesn't wish to be heard people attack the messenger.

\\


+1

[Someone With Mass]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If they have an issue arise in which puts their competence at risk I would not decide to pander and go resolve it for them on a whim. I would replace them with someone who hasn't had their daddy send them a letter or child got into trouble, If fact it's funny that Shepard must be the most unlucky commander in the universe not only for Reaper situations and dying and brought back to life stuff, but the simple fact it's funny how every one of his crew of "professionals" all seemed to get an [issue] or [family matter] just suddenly pop up in the very short time spent together instead of the decades they were around prior they could of resolved it. You boss doesn't come around you house and bake you cookies I assume whenever you catch a cold and the fact he does not doesn't make you less focused at work.

Here's the funny thing, though.

There aren't any better people than them. They were selected for a reason.

[Guldhun2]

littlezack wrote...
Let's see. I need to go into a combat situation. I could either hire mercs, go by myself, or have the baddest badass in the history of badasses tag along with me. Decisisions, decisions...

Anyway, the loyalty missions are more about getting them mentally ready for the suicide mission. Even the most professional people have private lives, and if something significant happens - say, for instance, getting a message from a father you haven't seen in decades - it can be a little distracting. You can just skip the missions, but that cuts down on their combat effectiveness for the mission - they have to be 100% focused, and even if their real life crap is taking away a smidge of that, it's too much.

If you are the baddest badass in the history of badasses you don't need help from Shepard with family issues. And what good would those badasses do if there's lets say 10 billion collectors waiting at the other end of the omega 4 relay. I doubt having 13 badasses with loyal ready minds is going to help.

[Someone With Mass]

Han Shot First wrote...
That's because Smudboy creates sock puppet accounts to log on here and self promote. He pretends to be some new user who is enamored by the 'genius' of smudboy, and posts links to his latest rant.

What a sad, lonely cellar-dweller he must be. I'm not sure whether I should laugh at or pity him.

I'd laugh. Pity won't do any good.

[CroGamer002]

You know, there's a reason why smudboy got many temporary bans and finally permanent ban on BSN.

[Guldhun2]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Here's the funny thing, though.

There aren't any better people than them. They were selected for a reason.

Packing the 13 (14 if you count Shep) best people in the galaxy on a tiny ship and sending them into the middle of the galaxy for no reason to stop an unknow enemy? Best..plan...ever.

[Dragoonlordz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If they have an issue arise in which puts their competence at risk I would not decide to pander and go resolve it for them on a whim. I would replace them with someone who hasn't had their daddy send them a letter or child got into trouble, If fact it's funny that Shepard must be the most unlucky commander in the universe not only for Reaper situations and dying and brought back to life stuff, but the simple fact it's funny how every one of his crew of "professionals" all seemed to get an [issue] or [family matter] just suddenly pop up in the very short time spent together instead of the decades they were around prior they could of resolved it. You boss doesn't come around you house and bake you cookies I assume whenever you catch a cold and the fact he does not doesn't make you less focused at work.

Here's the funny thing, though.

There aren't any better people than them. They were selected for a reason.

There are better people than them. They are some of the people on a list of which someone else considers the best, the team from ME1 were the best yet funny how they no longer are the best come second time around where apparently they have been outclassed by some new people who are the 'new' best. In ME3 there will be more 'best' people out of the trillions of people in universe who may also be the best at any given time.

As Guld said plus if was smart what you would do is collect information, research and gather evidence. You wouldn't send a handfull of people and one ship to middle of nowhere to fight what do not know on other side. All of which are 100% worthless unless land and use guns on enemy combatants. Reapers/Collectors the battle would in reality by space based ship fighting not half dozen or dozen ground troops popping into one ship and somehow defeating all ships of the opposing side through that one ship they happened to board.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Packing the 13 (14 if you count Shep) best people in the galaxy on a tiny ship and sending them into the middle of the galaxy for no reason to stop an unknow enemy? Best..plan...ever.

You mean...exactly what Shepard did in ME1?

Yeah.

[Guldhun2]

Phaedon wrote...
And I even made a list of the topics you should search, where I have maintained debates for weeks with him. The fact that you didn't make any effort to search them is your problem, and your problem alone.

If you want something right now, repeat the points Squee asks when Smudboy "answers" them and actually talks about a different topic.

Must have missed that, link?

[100k]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

100k wrote...

*My changes are not to make ME2 different from the original game-- merely to expand upon the appropriate content in the game. Don't think of this as "100k's Mass Effect 2 fix". Think of it as "Mass Effect 2: Directors Cut."

I remember watching smudboy's videos on where ME2 failed, and where it should've been perfected. He brought up some interesting points, but I feel that he was far too harsh on ME2's story. That being said, I agree with much of what he said regarding its lack of proper plot, pacing, or character development for Shepard (which the player should be able to control, but is never given the option to).

Smudboy wanted to completely rewrite ME2, with half of the main cast combined with other cast members to save time, and, what he felt, were just foolish characters to begin with. He also felt that all of the characters needed to be plot integral, so that they would have proper roles in the game. I feel, however, that these characters didn't need to be removed or combined. I'll explain why later.

You will notice that MY ME2 is very accurate to the current one. I feel that the essentials of a good story are within the strained net that is ME2's existing story, and that what needed to happen most was simple expansion. However, the very beginning, very middle, and very end do have strong differences, that address the problems of tutorials, over arching plot, and a conclusion in that respective order. So lets begin.

/sniped rest so I don't plug up thread with the post

Good write up and I can't complain about it at its core.  However, it works from the standpoint that some of Smudboy's points that are questionable are indeed correct assessments.  In addition it's an armchair rewrite of what Bioware writers already wrote which is a lot easier then writing a plot/story yourself (and if I may say, for a video game with multiple choices and story arcs).  We have all watched great movies and read great novels only to think to ourselves "I think it would have been better this way," but could we have come up with the plot in the first place?  Maybe, but we didn't they did.  Also there's the question does the story really need a rewrite in the first place.  A lot of people who have played the games would probably not agree with one.

What I like about your post best is that it's presented the way you think the game should have played out rather than it being the only correct way it could have played out.  You don't try to bash the original writers as if everything they did was wrong and trash.  Instead, you simply showed how you would have written things differently.  To the point of extreme amount of detail/rewrite, but I can respect your approach moreso than Smudboy's approach.

Thank you.

And remember, it's JUST an expansion of existing game content. I really tried to rewrite as  little as possible, and just expand what was there, people.

@Xerenx, thanks bro!

Modifié par 100k, 28 août 2011 - 06:43 .

[littlezack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Let's see. I need to go into a combat situation. I could either hire mercs, go by myself, or have the baddest badass in the history of badasses tag along with me. Decisisions, decisions...

Anyway, the loyalty missions are more about getting them mentally ready for the suicide mission. Even the most professional people have private lives, and if something significant happens - say, for instance, getting a message from a father you haven't seen in decades - it can be a little distracting. You can just skip the missions, but that cuts down on their combat effectiveness for the mission - they have to be 100% focused, and even if their real life crap is taking away a smidge of that, it's too much.

If they have an issue arise in which puts their competence at risk I would not decide to pander and go resolve it for them on a whim. I would replace them with someone who hasn't had their daddy send them a letter or child got into trouble, If fact it's funny that Shepard must be the most unlucky commander in the universe not only for Reaper situations and dying and brought back to life stuff, but the simple fact it's funny how every one of his crew of "professionals" all seemed to get an [issue] or [family matter] just suddenly pop up in the very short time spent together instead of the decades they were around prior they could of resolved it. You boss doesn't come around you house and bake you cookies I assume whenever you catch a cold and the fact he does not doesn't make you less focused at work.

I would actually say getting brought back to life was quite the opposite of being unluckhy. In fact I'd say it makes him the luckiest person ever, but whatever.

Shepard doesn't have the luxury of just finding and recruiting anybody he wants - it's not like there's going to be a waiting list of people willing to team up and fly through a relay that no one has ever come back from. And your analogy is a weak - having a cold isn't something my boss could help me with, anyway, and I'm easily replaced a work, so my skills aren't that needed. Shepard's not going to be able to easily find any biotic as skilled as Jack and Samara, any assassin as experienced and willing as Thane, or any Krogan as phsyically fit as Grunt. The team has the tools, it's just a matter of getting their minds right. And none of the loyalty missions require a big investment on Shepard's time - even ignoring game time, most of them can't take more than a day or so out of Shepard's time.

ME1 actually experimented with the concept a bit - certain crewmembers ask you to take time away from saving the universe and help them out with personal matters, like finding Dr. Saleon, or getting the armor, or helping Tali with her gift. Character-focused sidequests are no new thing, ME2 just tries to give them a llittle more meaning and purpose.

[Guldhun2]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Packing the 13 (14 if you count Shep) best people in the galaxy on a tiny ship and sending them into the middle of the galaxy for no reason to stop an unknow enemy? Best..plan...ever.

You mean...exactly what Shepard did in ME1?

Yeah.

There was no reason to go into the middle of the galaxy, just blow up the omega 4 relay. And voila, done. Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money. And the whole point of ME1 is finding out what the reapers were and how to stop them and saren. You know nothing about the collectors in the middle of the galaxy.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 28 août 2011 - 06:45 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Fixers0 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Let me also add that his idea of debating involves asking an irrelevant question that does not actually constitute a rebuttal. Based on what I have observed, that is.

And of course you can't provide me a correct example of your baseless acusation, or do you?

I could after some Google-Fu, but I have no inclination to do so. Especially not for the likes of you.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Packing the 13 (14 if you count Shep) best people in the galaxy on a tiny ship and sending them into the middle of the galaxy for no reason to stop an unknow enemy? Best..plan...ever.

You mean...exactly what Shepard did in ME1?

Yeah.

You're starting to confusing things again, slowly breath and make up you're mind, then look at the context of both games and post again.

[CroGamer002]

Guldhun2 wrote...

There was no reason to go into the
middle of the galaxy, just blow up the omega 4 relay. And voila, done.
Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money.
And the whole point of ME1 is finding out what the reapers were and how
to stop them and saren. You know nothing about the collectors in the middle of the galaxy.

BRILLIANT!

Aria won't mind for Cerberus to try and blow up Omega 4 Relay.


As for ships? Eh, waste of money? I mean, Alliance ships didn't stand a chance, according to Admiral Hackett if you beat Arrival before Suicide Mission.

And we still had no idea in ME1 what is Saren doing until you talk to Vigil.

Modifié par Mesina2, 28 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[littlezack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If they have an issue arise in which puts their competence at risk I would not decide to pander and go resolve it for them on a whim. I would replace them with someone who hasn't had their daddy send them a letter or child got into trouble, If fact it's funny that Shepard must be the most unlucky commander in the universe not only for Reaper situations and dying and brought back to life stuff, but the simple fact it's funny how every one of his crew of "professionals" all seemed to get an [issue] or [family matter] just suddenly pop up in the very short time spent together instead of the decades they were around prior they could of resolved it. You boss doesn't come around you house and bake you cookies I assume whenever you catch a cold and the fact he does not doesn't make you less focused at work.

Here's the funny thing, though.

There aren't any better people than them. They were selected for a reason.

There are better people than them. They are some of the people on a list of which someone else considers the best, the team from ME1 were the best yet funny how they no longer are the best come second time around

Um...you do remember that two of them are actually on your team in ME2, right? The others are unavailable. And the team from ME1 isn't the best - Garrus, Ashely, Wrex and Liara weren't brought on board the Normandy because they were exceptional, they were brought on board because they happened to stumble on Shepard at the right time. There's nothing in the story to suggest that Ashely is anything more than a slightly-above average soldier, or that Garrus is any more fit and capable than your average C-Sec.

Modifié par littlezack, 28 août 2011 - 06:48 .

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Let me also add that his idea of debating involves asking an irrelevant question that does not actually constitute a rebuttal. Based on what I have observed, that is.

And of course you can't provide me a correct example of your baseless acusation, or do you?

I could after some Google-Fu, but I have no inclination to do so. Especially not for the likes of you.

So, you are just basically admitting here that you're making things up again, sounds familiar, doesn't it.

[Dragoonlordz]

littlezack wrote...

ME1 actually experimented with the concept a bit - certain crewmembers ask you to take time away from saving the universe and help them out with personal matters, like finding Dr. Saleon, or getting the armor, or helping Tali with her gift. Character-focused sidequests are no new thing, ME2 just tries to give them a llittle more meaning and purpose.

The difference is by choosing not to do so in ME1 they didn't all of sudden become magically imcompetant or killed for simply not resolving their issues while in ME2 they do. Based on that then clearly the only team he needs to take with him are the ones who didn't lose competance when their little issues were not resolved. So in other words the "Best" team would of been the first team because the second team loses 'focus' if they didn't see their daddy or son one more time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 août 2011 - 06:52 .