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[dreman9999]

dreman9999 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Clearafy, and saying everything is a plothole is missguided and lazy.

Both, consist out of the most convoluted logic, both of them should have been impossible to achieve, both resolve in the most  contrived unrealistic manner and lastly both relay on the power plot  to advance.

Those are the baselines
but feel free to watch it all here.

1 www.youtube.com/watch from about 03:00

2www.youtube.com/watch right from the start

1. I descussed this already. The collecor are extremly isolated, so isolated at any normal attempt to their base of location end with falure and death. Theirs a reason why the work throw the omega 4 relay that only operates with a certin IFF, because they don't what any onr to learn about them. And it not like the cast did not try. horizon and the collector ship missions where about finding out more about their enemy. The point Smudboy forget to mention this shows how much he doesn't understand the plot.
As for intell that he's speaking of, remember you facing an enemy with teck so powerful they can sense the most advance stealth ship. Any thing that goes through the relay is sence by the collectors and any amount of probing after getting the iff,(you have to get that first before sending probes because you won't get to the right place with out it.) will tell the collector you about to attack. Every probe you seen will tell the collectors where you ship is going to arrive which will allow for a surpise attack to be planned for your arrival.
Not a plot hole, just him not understand the plot and characters again.And I already stated thisin this topic already.

2.You do realize that's an analysis before the arrival dlc. It just points out that we didn't know the full detail of the reapers plan at the time. For one, their goal is earth and two, the reapers are on their way to the alpha relay. They using many plans now. Heck, the arrival can be played before the final suicide mission, which would mean in some peoples play through the reapers are already in the galexy. And even then as of what we know of ME3, they hit earth first, so their goal was always earth from ME2.
So why link me to something that outdated and lacking new infromation?
This is not a plot hole ether.

No commet , fixer0?

[Notlikeyoucare]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
One plot hole exist. One. And in this topic all the other stated plotholes have been accounted for. I mean what other plotholes are their outside jacobs loyalty quest?(And don't say Shepard reserection because we already talked about it death to a point of stating it just something that will be explained later.)P

No.

And the reason you don't post any plotholes are?

You dare question the god of logic?

He has hand-waived you,be happy you got that.


Some people...jeez.

There's no point in explaining it all again. He just refuses to acknowledge their existance.

But because I'm nice I'll do it one last time.

Shepards death is an impossible event that was never explained how it was possible. Worse, nothing came of it. Plothole and one-dimensional plot device.

The unexplained "mission" to nowhere goes against all of the events that have happend up to this point and its never explained *where* they are going and *why*. Worst bit of writing in the game.

The IFF of a Reaper dead for x million years *somehow* locates the Normandy when not in use. Plothole.

The contrivances of the plot are also characterisstics of bad writing but you asked specifically for plotholes.

Also, thermal clips on Jacobs loyalty mission are NOT plotholes since they have nolthing to do with the plot. Retcon and inconsistent? Yes.

[Il Divo]

It's sad when we reach the point where we're not even debating each other but simply saying "No, I'm right." This thread seems to be bouncing back and forth from that.

[111987]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...


Yeah, Bioware is so lazy...all those thousands of lines od dialogue proves it!

Come on, seriously? To call the writers lazy is just ridiculous, there is so much detail written into the game and the Codex. Sure, some parts and sections of writing weren't great or up to everyone's very high standards, but lazy?

Maybe you just don't realize how much work they put into this game...

Hack writers can spur out thousands of pages and still be considered lazy,I t's not the number of words or pages that counts.
 
You are considered lazy when you don't invest any thought or feelings into the material you're producing.

So now the Bioware writers didn't invest any thought or feelings into their writing? Good lord, how am I supposed to debate people when THAT is really their argument?

There are INSTANCES of bad/lazy writing. Every writer in the history of the world has had these instances; it's part of being a flawed human. Charcterizing the writers themselves, in their entirety, as lazy is just crazy.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
One plot hole exist. One. And in this topic all the other stated plotholes have been accounted for. I mean what other plotholes are their outside jacobs loyalty quest?(And don't say Shepard reserection because we already talked about it death to a point of stating it just something that will be explained later.)P

No.

And the reason you don't post any plotholes are?

You dare question the god of logic?

He has hand-waived you,be happy you got that.


Some people...jeez.

There's no point in explaining it all again. He just refuses to acknowledge their existance.

But because I'm nice I'll do it one last time.

Shepards death is an impossible event that was never explained how it was possible. Worse, nothing came of it. Plothole and one-dimensional plot device.

The unexplained "mission" to nowhere goes against all of the events that have happend up to this point and its never explained *where* they are going and *why*. Worst bit of writing in the game.

The IFF of a Reaper dead for x million years *somehow* locates the Normandy when not in use. Plothole.

The contrivances of the plot are also characterisstics of bad writing but you asked specifically for plotholes.

Also, thermal clips on Jacobs loyalty mission are NOT plotholes since they have nolthing to do with the plot. Retcon and inconsistent? Yes.

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Only the Reapers and the Collector ships have this signal. Since there are no Reapers in the galaxy, when the Collectors detect this signal, don't you think they'd investigate?

[Fixers0]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. I descussed this already. The collecor are extremly isolated, so isolated at any normal attempt to their base of location end with falure and death.

And what does this have to do with Smudboy's video?

dreman9999 wrote...
Theirs a reason why the work throw the omega 4 relay that only operates with a certin IFF, because they don't what any onr to learn about them. And if not like the cast did not try.

What are you trying to say here?

dreman9999 wrote...
horizon and the collector ship missions where about finding out more about their enemy.

Yeah that turned out well, what plot relevant did we get on horizon or one the Collector cruiser, aside from now knowing were they are, which still doesn't increase our capability of surviving.

dreman9999 wrote...
The point Smudboy forget to mention this shows how much he doesn't understand the plot.

While i'm glad yo do.

dreman9999 wrote...
As for intell that he's speaking of, remember you facing an enemy with teck so powerful they can sense the most advance stealth ship. Any thing that goes through the relay is sence by the collectors and any amount of probing after getting the iff,

So what? i'm still looking for you arguments

dreman9999 wrote...
(you have to get that first before sending probes because you won't get to the right place with out it.)

But the Shadow broker sent probes and big surprise... they returned!

dreman9999 wrote...
will tell the collector you about to attack. Every probe you seen will tell the collectors where you ship is going to arrive which will allow for a surpise attack to be planned for your arrival.

And how do you know this, all they would know at this point is that there is yet another attempt to breach the relay, it doesn't tell anything about when or even if we are going to attack.

dreman9999 wrote...
Not a plot hole, just him not understand the plot and characters again.And I already stated thisin this topic already.

What?

dreman9999 wrote...
2.You do realize that's an analysis before the arrival dlc. It just points out that we didn't know the full detail of the reapers plan at the time. For one, their goal is earth and two, the reapers are on their way to the alpha relay. They using many plans now. Heck, the arrival can be played before the final suicide mission, which would mean in some peoples play through the reapers are already in the galexy. And even then as of what we know of ME3, they hit earth first, so their goal was always earth from ME2.
So why link me to something that outdated and lacking new infromation?
This is not a plot hole ether.

I would seriously like to remind you the analysis was about the main narative, also you haven't brought up any argument to defend the Collector's plan, or even what there purpose and role in the story was, infact this makes it even worse since the entire main plot of mass effect 2 did nothing and thus was there for now reason at all, that makes it a just plot filler rigged with holes in it.

[111987]

@Fixers0

The Shadow Broker's probes returned in pieces...and we don't know how many probes he sent. It could have been only one of a thousand probes he sent that returned...and seeing as how it was in pieces, it didn't really tell us much.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Did you seriously even say anything there Fixers, or were you just ass kissing and hand waiving again?

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Only the Reapers and the Collector ships have this signal. Since there are no Reapers in the galaxy, when the Collectors detect this signal, don't you think they'd investigate?

The Collectors being able to pick up and track their creators' signals is apparently a plothole in itself.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
One plot hole exist. One. And in this topic all the other stated plotholes have been accounted for. I mean what other plotholes are their outside jacobs loyalty quest?(And don't say Shepard reserection because we already talked about it death to a point of stating it just something that will be explained later.)P

No.

And the reason you don't post any plotholes are?

You dare question the god of logic?

He has hand-waived you,be happy you got that.


Some people...jeez.

There's no point in explaining it all again. He just refuses to acknowledge their existance.

But because I'm nice I'll do it one last time.

Shepards death is an impossible event that was never explained how it was possible. Worse, nothing came of it. Plothole and one-dimensional plot device.

The unexplained "mission" to nowhere goes against all of the events that have happend up to this point and its never explained *where* they are going and *why*. Worst bit of writing in the game.

The IFF of a Reaper dead for x million years *somehow* locates the Normandy when not in use. Plothole.

The contrivances of the plot are also characterisstics of bad writing but you asked specifically for plotholes.

Also, thermal clips on Jacobs loyalty mission are NOT plotholes since they have nolthing to do with the plot. Retcon and inconsistent? Yes.

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Only the Reapers and the Collector ships have this signal. Since there are no Reapers in the galaxy, when the Collectors detect this signal, don't you think they'd investigate?

Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try to stay on topic and tone down the hostility, please.

[Fixers0]

111987 wrote...

@Fixers0

The Shadow Broker's probes returned in pieces...and we don't know how many probes he sent. It could have been only one of a thousand probes he sent that returned...and seeing as how it was in pieces, it didn't really tell us much.

You seem to be quick to asume that they weren't able to recovered for usefull intelligence, yet you don't want to speculate about how many,

But they came back and that, as it subverst the thing about nothing returning from the omega-4 relay and more they were recoverd by a team order by the Shadow broker to find them.

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the IFF wasn't plugged in and was waiting for Shepard and his team to pick it up.

Also, if they have never used a Reaper IFF before, then it's a little hard to know what it'll do, don't you think?

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

To address your second line, I think you're misunderstanding how the IFF works. The Omega IV relay doesn't get to selectively choose who survives/does not survive the journey. The IFF is a targeting system, which allows precision-based relay jumps and prevents drift in space. They obtained the IFF because it would allow them to hit the "safe zone" through the relay.

What is a plot hole is that the Collectors were not already aware of the IFF sitting inside the dead Reaper.

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 septembre 2011 - 07:28 .

[Darth Death]

Someone With Mass wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Only the Reapers and the Collector ships have this signal. Since there are no Reapers in the galaxy, when the Collectors detect this signal, don't you think they'd investigate?

The Collectors being able to pick up and track their creators' signals is apparently a plothole in itself.

The collector's tech is based on reaper's tech...

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You on the other hand, are a poster boy for everything that's wrong with internet.

What did I attack that he said in the video?   Really, I have no idea, because I haven't watch it, and I won't watch it, any more than I'll watch Jersey Shore -- no one needs more than the five minutes I saw of that show to know it's hollow worthless crap, and no one should need more than what Smuddy posted here to tell that he's a snide, arrogant, abusive tool, and that his "criticism" is based not on accuracy, but purely on what's convenient for the most scathing attack possible, and the biggest "lolz" possible. 

And the underlined is the point.
You talk about things you know nothing about. Jumping to conclusiosn, massive levels of overreacting and butthurt, inability to distance oneself - all are what's wrong with internet, and you're displaying all of it.

Your every post is a fusilade of insults and bile directed at Smud. Even if he was the biggest douche in the world, that does not paint you in a good light. It reveals your bias and hate, which in turns makes everything you say suspect at best.

Oh, damn, I'm biased against jerks.  What a terrible thing for me. 

No butthurt, no overreacting, just disgust at someone who acts like terrible excuse for a human being getting so much adoration from people who think he's kewl for being a jerk. 

Again, I don't watch Smuggy's videos for the same reason I don't stick my hand on a hot stove once a month -- I know what the result will be.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 06 septembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...
You seem to be quick to asume that they weren't able to recovered for usefull intelligence, yet you don't want to speculate about how many,

But they came back and that, as it subverst the thing about nothing returning from the omega-4 relay and more they were recoverd by a team order by the Shadow broker to find them.

What if they came back with the oh, so useful intelligence? I doubt they detected or could get past the Oculi and there's nothing you can do against the debris field except flying around or through it. 

Also, what good will a couple of images of the base do? Tell us that it's there?

[111987]

Fixers0 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@Fixers0

The Shadow Broker's probes returned in pieces...and we don't know how many probes he sent. It could have been only one of a thousand probes he sent that returned...and seeing as how it was in pieces, it didn't really tell us much.

You seem to be quick to asume that they weren't able to recovered for usefull intelligence, yet you don't want to speculate about how many,

But they came back and that, as it subverst the thing about nothing returning from the omega-4 relay and more they were recoverd by a team order by the Shadow broker to find them.

Yes, I suppose I am quick to assume that smashed up pieces of a probe wouldn't yield any useful data...shame on me.

What's your point here?

[Notlikeyoucare]

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

To address your second line, I don't think you fully understand how the IFF works. The Omega IV relay doesn't get to selectively choose who survives/does not survive the journey. The IFF is a targeting system, which allows precision-based relay jumps and prevents drift in space. They obtained the IFF because it would allow them to hit the "safe zone" through the relay.

What is a plot hole is that the Collectors were not already aware of the IFF sitting inside the dead Reaper.

Identify Friend Foe system is how I understand it. If TIM knew this is how it works, and thats how the Collectors can detect them (being that no other Reaper is alive until the plot needs one) then it would just be putting a bullseye on yourself.

Now we see that evil will always triumph, because.... evil is dumb?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

To address your second line, I think you're misunderstanding how the IFF works. The Omega IV relay doesn't get to selectively choose who survives/does not survive the journey. The IFF is a targeting system, which allows precision-based relay jumps and prevents drift in space. They obtained the IFF because it would allow them to hit the "safe zone" through the relay.

What is a plot hole is that the Collectors were not already aware of the IFF sitting inside the dead Reaper.

Brown dwarf.

[Someone With Mass]

Darth Death wrote...

The collector's tech is based on reaper's tech...

Which is my point. Why wouldn't they be able to pick up the IFF's signal? Especially when they're lead by Harbinger, a Reaper. 

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


Identify Friend Foe system is how I understand it. If TIM knew this is how it works, and thats how the Collectors can detect them (being that no other Reaper is alive until the plot needs one) then it would just be putting a bullseye on yourself.

I can see why the name might be confusing, but the function is explained by EDI in game, regarding astral drift. There's no way they could have passed through the relay without that signal is the primary point.

Now we see that evil will always triumph, because.... evil is dumb?

Hmm, could you elaborate on this?

[Il Divo]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


Which is why they went and got it from the Reaper. And no, if the thing can put up Mass Effect fields to trap us, the Collectors would still see the signal.

Which  begs the question, why did Shep and co even bother getting it if the Collectors would know it isn't one of theirs? Why didn't TIM think that one through?

Contrived Macguffin methinks.

To address your second line, I think you're misunderstanding how the IFF works. The Omega IV relay doesn't get to selectively choose who survives/does not survive the journey. The IFF is a targeting system, which allows precision-based relay jumps and prevents drift in space. They obtained the IFF because it would allow them to hit the "safe zone" through the relay.

What is a plot hole is that the Collectors were not already aware of the IFF sitting inside the dead Reaper.

Brown dwarf.

Explain, please? 

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
One plot hole exist. One. And in this topic all the other stated plotholes have been accounted for. I mean what other plotholes are their outside jacobs loyalty quest?(And don't say Shepard reserection because we already talked about it death to a point of stating it just something that will be explained later.)P

No.

And the reason you don't post any plotholes are?

You dare question the god of logic?

He has hand-waived you,be happy you got that.


Some people...jeez.

There's no point in explaining it all again. He just refuses to acknowledge their existance.

But because I'm nice I'll do it one last time.

Shepards death is an impossible event that was never explained how it was possible. Worse, nothing came of it. Plothole and one-dimensional plot device.

The unexplained "mission" to nowhere goes against all of the events that have happend up to this point and its never explained *where* they are going and *why*. Worst bit of writing in the game.

The IFF of a Reaper dead for x million years *somehow* locates the Normandy when not in use. Plothole.

The contrivances of the plot are also characterisstics of bad writing but you asked specifically for plotholes.

Also, thermal clips on Jacobs loyalty mission are NOT plotholes since they have nolthing to do with the plot. Retcon and inconsistent? Yes.

1. The fact that it will be explain makes it not a plothole. Also, the fact their basic tech in ME is more advance then ours means that the are capible of things we can only imagion. They found a way, it just not explained yet.
2.That event was made to happen at anytime after the collector ship, on any mission. It only start when you use the star map to land any where. It's not a mission to know where, just a mission that did not start because they turned back because they heard the ship was in troble.
3.......The reaper IFF was plugged in the normady....That was the reason the ship got hacked. If you did not know it was plugged in, you were not paying attention. Also, it was from a dead reaper that's body was still funcitioning. Think on it as brain death but the body does not die and that's whar reapers death realy is.

5. Now you want to tell me what are not plot holes? Their plot holes because the ship when out before thermal clips were used and they have thermal clips...that's a plot hole.

[Fixers0]

111987 wrote...


Yes, I suppose I am quick to assume that smashed up pieces of a probe wouldn't yield any useful data...shame on me.

And how do you know that> who says they wer only partinaly damaged or that some of it's databanks remain intact, we don't know, but they did return.

Actually know that i'm talking about it, would't it have been good plot development that if we sent through some probes, and they returned after a while, and by studing the remains we know what kind of damage collector weapon's inflict so we can upgrade the normandy with Heavy armor, you know makes sense.

111987 wrote...
What's your point here?

That you like to imagine things if it helps to enforce you're position, even though it's all based on speculation.