6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

Fixers0 wrote...

So, you are just basically admitting here that you're making things up again, sounds familiar, doesn't it.

Nice strawman fallacy. I don't need this....

[littlezack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

littlezack wrote...

ME1 actually experimented with the concept a bit - certain crewmembers ask you to take time away from saving the universe and help them out with personal matters, like finding Dr. Saleon, or getting the armor, or helping Tali with her gift. Character-focused sidequests are no new thing, ME2 just tries to give them a llittle more meaning and purpose.

The difference is by choosing not to do so in ME1 they didn't all of sudden become magically imcompetant or killed for simply not resolving their issues while in ME2 they do. Based on that then clearly the only team he needs to take with him are the ones who didn't lose competance when their little issues were not resolved. So in other words the "Best" team would of been the first team because the second team loses 'focus' if they didn't see their daddy or son one more time.

ME1 didn't requier the squad members to do anything beyond backing you up in combat - which the team in ME2 never has any problem doing, regardless of the loyalty missions. Garrus, Liara, Ashely, Wrex, Kaiden - none of their unique skills come into play in the final mission of ME1. They just follow Shepard around.

In fact, come to think of it, Shepard doesn't actually NEED to have any of them around on the final mission, at least story wise. It's not like they Tali's hacking skills are crucial to getting the Citadel back online, or Garrus' infiltration skills are needed to get into the Presidium. Thier presence is largely inconsequential.

Modifié par littlezack, 28 août 2011 - 06:57 .

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

So, you are just basically admitting here that you're making things up again, sounds familiar, doesn't it.

Nice strawman fallacy. I don't need this....

Nice attempt at looking smart, you mean, you not even trying.

[Guldhun2]

Mesina2 wrote...

Aria won't mind for Cerberus to try and blow up Omega 4 Relay.
Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then using the relay


As for ships? Eh, waste of money? I mean, Alliance ships didn't stand a chance, according to Admiral Hackett if you beat Arrival before Suicide Mission.

And we still had no idea in ME1 what is Saren doing until you talk to Vigil.

Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then blindly using the relay from which nobody has ever returned fighting a enemy you know nothing about. There could be billions of collectors there, how is the team of "14 badasses" going to stop that? And the guns on the normandy without upgrading can destroy a collector ship.

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

There was no reason to go into the middle of the galaxy, just blow up the omega 4 relay. And voila, done. Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money. And the whole point of ME1 is finding out what the reapers were and how to stop them and saren. You know nothing about the collectors in the middle of the galaxy.

You knew nothing about Saren's or Sovereign's capabilities either.

You investigated the Collectors and found out about their base of operations too. Just like you did with Saren, except that was a wild goose chase, since you had no clue about Saren's next move until he was right there and had done what he came there for.
Also, blowing up a mass relay near a huge population center that could very well trigger a interstellar war? Not a smart move.

[Balek-Vriege]

100k wrote...

Thank you.

And remember, it's JUST an expansion of existing game content. I really tried to rewrite as  little as possible, and just expand what was there, people.

@Xerenx, thanks bro!

Again it was a good rewrite and a thoughtful/respectful one.  Got to give some credit where credit is due.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Nice attempt at looking smart, you mean, you not even trying.

And you aren't?

[littlezack]

Yeah, I think Aria might have some problem with Omega 4 relay blowing up and obliterating her entire station.

[RoboticWater]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Aria won't mind for Cerberus to try and blow up Omega 4 Relay.
Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then using the relay


As for ships? Eh, waste of money? I mean, Alliance ships didn't stand a chance, according to Admiral Hackett if you beat Arrival before Suicide Mission.

And we still had no idea in ME1 what is Saren doing until you talk to Vigil.

Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then blindly using the relay from which nobody has ever returned fighting a enemy you know nothing about. There could be billions of collectors there, how is the team of "14 badasses" going to stop that? And the guns on the normandy without upgrading can destroy a collector ship.

If you played Arrival you would know that blowing up a mass relay is a terrible idea. Not only is it really hard to destroy one but I'm pretty sure Aria would mind if Omega and everything else in that galaxy was destroyed.
 ninja'd:ph34r:

Modifié par BlahDog, 28 août 2011 - 07:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

littlezack wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

littlezack wrote...

ME1 actually experimented with the concept a bit - certain crewmembers ask you to take time away from saving the universe and help them out with personal matters, like finding Dr. Saleon, or getting the armor, or helping Tali with her gift. Character-focused sidequests are no new thing, ME2 just tries to give them a llittle more meaning and purpose.

The difference is by choosing not to do so in ME1 they didn't all of sudden become magically imcompetant or killed for simply not resolving their issues while in ME2 they do. Based on that then clearly the only team he needs to take with him are the ones who didn't lose competance when their little issues were not resolved. So in other words the "Best" team would of been the first team because the second team loses 'focus' if they didn't see their daddy or son one more time.

ME1 didn't requier the squad members to do anything beyond backing you up in combat - which the team in ME2 never has any problem doing, regardless of the loyalty missions. Garrus, Liara, Ashely, Wrex, Kaiden - none of their unique skills come into play in the final mission of ME1. They just follow Shepard around.

The best team is always the one's who can focus on a mission without needing to resolve personal life issues, this was not the case for people in ME2 who all one way or another would die or lose focus if didn't resolve their issues therefore they were not the best by any meansout of the trillions of other people who many of which could handle a mission without their personal lives causing deaths of each other. What I am saying is in my mind they were neither the best or even the most appropriate people for the job at hand because of that massive flaw in their personalities that would cause them to lose focus on the mission. That is why I felt they were neither the best or most desired to take on the mission. The fact that they needed personal issues resolved else die is why I would want them to leave from the offset followed by finding someone without such issues which put the mission in jeopardy.

You may not like my assessment but by no means does it invalidate my point as the commander of that mission to me they would not have been part of the team if their personal lives can and does affect the mission from the start.

[CroGamer002]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then blindly using the relay from which nobody has ever returned fighting a enemy you know nothing about. There could be billions of collectors there, how is the team of "14 badasses" going to stop that? And the guns on the normandy without upgrading can destroy a collector ship.

Omega worth's a lot, considering it's nest for every criminal organization.
Oh and lot of power.

And why would she risk destruction of Mass Relay?
Lot of bad things can happen.


As for sending people through Omega 4 Relay?
How many people had IFF?
Also we do find out that Collectors have 1 ship on Collector ship.

So, if they can't have more then 1 ship, their defenses can't be that big.

[RoboticWater]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


The best team is always the one's who can focus on a mission without needing to resolve personal life issues, this was not the case for people in ME2 who all one way or another would die or lose focus if didn't resolve their issues therefore they were not the best by any meansout of the trillions of other people who many of which could handle a mission without their personal lives causing deaths of each other. What I am saying is in my mind they were neither the best or even the most appropriate people for the job at hand because of that massive flaw in their personalities that would cause them to lose focus on the mission. That is why I felt they were neither the best or most desired to take on the mission. The fact that they needed personal issues resolved else die is why I would want them to leave from the offset followed by finding someone without such issues which put the mission in jeopardy.

You may not like my assessment but by no means does it invalidate my point as the commander of that mission to me they would not have been part of the team if their personal lives can and does affect the mission from the start.

All but the DLC team members came on without strings attached, only later did they learn about their problems.

Modifié par BlahDog, 28 août 2011 - 07:03 .

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Nice attempt at looking smart, you mean, you not even trying.

And you aren't?

Did i said that? i just told him that he was meaning to say how smart he looked.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Phaedon wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Even if Smudboy's arguments held some base, which they definitely don't do at all times, disliking him for being obnoxious, arrogant and immediately insulting to everyone who even politely disagrees with him, is a perfectly valid reason. There are multiple other plot analysts with at least a high school understanding of physics and better behavior that are not criticized at all.

However, defending him, because he criticized ME2, even though he is an ***hole, is what blind favoritism is all about.

Fourth time i'm asking, but which argument doesn't hold?

And I even made a list of the topics you should search, where I have maintained debates for weeks with him. The fact that you didn't make any effort to search them is your problem, and your problem alone.

If you want something right now, repeat the points Squee asks when Smudboy "answers" them and actually talks about a different topic.

I have watched Squee and Smudboy's debate, and in fact debated with the former myself. While I have nothing against Squee, his arguments were crushed for the most part. Smudboy fancies to nitpick too much for my preference however his claims against the main plot on an overall basis have significant merit, ones I can just as easily defend. Simply put from a literary perspective the plot is not good, be it Shepard's resurrection, the brain melting exchange with Virmire Survival or the sheer idiocy of TIM and Suicide Mission. There are so many inconsistencies it borders on astonishing, simply because once you get back into the character aspect, the story is surprisingly good. It was almost as though the main plot was an afterthought.

You ought to read the article by Shamus Young. He dissected the plot in a similar matter yet lacked the sense of condescension people accuse Smudboy of. Personally, I believe it has more to with people being unable to fathom the notion BioWare did not write a masterpiece.

[Guldhun2]

Omega worth's a lot, considering it's nest for every criminal
organization.Oh and lot of power.And why would she risk destruction of
Mass Relay?Lot of bad things can happen.

If you played Arrival you would know that blowing up a mass relay is a terrible idea. Not only is it really hard to destroy one but I'm pretty sure Aria would mind if Omega and everything else in that galaxy was destroyed.
 ninja'd:ph34r:

Yeah, I think Aria might have some problem with Omega 4 relay blowing up and obliterating her entire station.

Also, blowing up a mass relay near a huge population center
that could very well trigger a interstellar war? Not a smart
move.

-->..Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money..

Modifié par Guldhun2, 28 août 2011 - 07:06 .

[Sgt Stryker]

BlahDog wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Aria won't mind for Cerberus to try and blow up Omega 4 Relay.
Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then using the relay


As for ships? Eh, waste of money? I mean, Alliance ships didn't stand a chance, according to Admiral Hackett if you beat Arrival before Suicide Mission.

And we still had no idea in ME1 what is Saren doing until you talk to Vigil.

Why would she mind? She even fought the collectors herself. Or you could give her a couple billion credits. I don't know, but it's more believable and less stupid then blindly using the relay from which nobody has ever returned fighting a enemy you know nothing about. There could be billions of collectors there, how is the team of "14 badasses" going to stop that? And the guns on the normandy without upgrading can destroy a collector ship.

If you played Arrival you would know that blowing up a mass relay is a terrible idea. Not only is it really hard to destroy one but I'm pretty sure Aria would mind if Omega and everything else in that galaxy was destroyed.
 ninja'd:ph34r:

Besides, if we assume that Arrival takes place after the Suicide Mission, then Shepard would not know about what it takes to actually destroy a relay until well after the fact. Furthermore, some people have suggested either mining the relay or placing a fleet to guard it. Neither of these strategies would work.

Mines are ineffective because relays have inherent "drift" of several thousand kilometers (as described by Joker at the very beginning of ME1). As for a fleet, where would it come from? An Alliance or Council fleet stationed at all times would not be possible, because of the whole Terminus systems problem. Are there any other factions that would be willing to do that? If there are, then I'll shut up.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 28 août 2011 - 07:08 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Mesina2 wrote...

Omega worth's a lot, considering it's nest for every criminal organization.
Oh and lot of power.

And why would she risk destruction of Mass Relay?
Lot of bad things can happen.


As for sending people through Omega 4 Relay?
How many people had IFF?
Also we do find out that Collectors have 1 ship on Collector ship.

So, if they can't have more then 1 ship, their defenses can't be that big.

I honestly wouldn't care what Aria thought, if given the opportunity I would have shot her to begin with moment I met her after gained access to the information needed to track down people was recruiting. Apparently Shepard can take out a Reaper and army of Collectors yet can't take out one woman and her bodyguards... After which put in place someone to run it of my choosing backed up with the threat of Shepards name attached to new person in charge if anything happens to that person.

[RoboticWater]

Guldhun2 wrote...

If you played Arrival you would know that blowing up a mass relay is a terrible idea. Not only is it really hard to destroy one but I'm pretty sure Aria would mind if Omega and everything else in that galaxy was destroyed.
 ninja'd:ph34r:

Yeah, I think Aria might have some problem with Omega 4 relay blowing up and obliterating her entire station.

Also, blowing up a mass relay near a huge population center
that could very well trigger a interstellar war? Not a smart
move.

-->..Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money..

when exiting a mass relay there is milions of miles (Not sure if its millions but it is big) of drift. Cerberus cant cover that area, in fact no one could and be able to fight a fully armed collecter ship. Also moving in a fleet of ships around that area may make people think you are going to start a war with Omega.

Modifié par BlahDog, 28 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[Iakus]

Xeranx wrote...

100k wrote...

*My changes are not to make ME2 different from the original game-- merely to expand upon the appropriate content in the game. Don't think of this as "100k's Mass Effect 2 fix". Think of it as "Mass Effect 2: Directors Cut."

***snip***

Indeed.  I'd pay good money for a ME2 dlc/expansion that incorporated that stuff.

[littlezack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

littlezack wrote...

ME1 actually experimented with the concept a bit - certain crewmembers ask you to take time away from saving the universe and help them out with personal matters, like finding Dr. Saleon, or getting the armor, or helping Tali with her gift. Character-focused sidequests are no new thing, ME2 just tries to give them a llittle more meaning and purpose.

The difference is by choosing not to do so in ME1 they didn't all of sudden become magically imcompetant or killed for simply not resolving their issues while in ME2 they do. Based on that then clearly the only team he needs to take with him are the ones who didn't lose competance when their little issues were not resolved. So in other words the "Best" team would of been the first team because the second team loses 'focus' if they didn't see their daddy or son one more time.

ME1 didn't requier the squad members to do anything beyond backing you up in combat - which the team in ME2 never has any problem doing, regardless of the loyalty missions. Garrus, Liara, Ashely, Wrex, Kaiden - none of their unique skills come into play in the final mission of ME1. They just follow Shepard around.

The best team is always the one's who can focus on a mission without needing to resolve personal life issues, this was not the case for people in ME2 who all one way or another would die or lose focus if didn't resolve their issues therefore they were not the best by any meansout of the trillions of other people who many of which could handle a mission without their personal lives causing deaths of each other. What I am saying is in my mind they were neither the best or even the most appropriate people for the job at hand because of that massive flaw in their personalities that would cause them to lose focus on the mission. That is why I felt they were neither the best or most desired to take on the mission. The fact that they needed personal issues resolved else die is why I would want them to leave from the offset followed by finding someone without such issues which put the mission in jeopardy.

You may not like my assessment but by no means does it invalidate my point as the commander of that mission to me they would not have been part of the team if their personal lives can and does affect the mission from the start.

In ME1, all your team has to do in the final mission is follow you and shoot anything that shoots at them. Yes, personal baggage doesn't hinder them from doing that, but it doesn't hinder the team in ME2, either. Regardless of their personal state, they can fight. But it does hinder their focus on more complex task. You can't say the team from ME1 is superior in this regard, because they're never put into the same situation.

And on that note, it's not uncommon for an employer to have some interest in helping an employee with personal problems. It's not unheard of for jobs to offer counseling or psychiatric help for personal problems, in the interest of getting the employee help. I've spoken to my own boss on personal problems before, and while, no, he hasn't personally come to help my problem, he's a man with plenty of other things to do - unlike Shepard, who can spare an hour or two to help out and has skills for that sort of thing.

In

[RoboticWater]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Omega worth's a lot, considering it's nest for every criminal organization.
Oh and lot of power.

And why would she risk destruction of Mass Relay?
Lot of bad things can happen.


As for sending people through Omega 4 Relay?
How many people had IFF?
Also we do find out that Collectors have 1 ship on Collector ship.

So, if they can't have more then 1 ship, their defenses can't be that big.

I honestly wouldn't care what Aria thought, if given the opportunity I would have shot her to begin with moment I met her after gained access to the information needed to track down people was recruiting. Apparently Shepard can take out a Reaper and army of Collectors yet can't take out one woman and her bodyguards... After which put in place someone to run it of my choosing backed up with the threat of Shepards name attached to new person in charge if anything happens to that person.

It does not matter what Aria thinks it what every one on Omega thinks, about what everyone in that galaxy thinks, and about what everyone who cares abou that galaxy thinks. Once that thing blew up you would be officially screwed. 

[Dragoonlordz]

BlahDog wrote...

All but the DLC team members came on without strings attached, only later did they learn about their problems.

And at that later stage is when they became a liability of which needed replacing. Which is why I pointed out the humour that all of a sudden everyone seemed to be getting this magical new information from TiM which put the mission at risk in the first place due to bringing up their pasts and putting their compentence at risk because of emotional baggage prior to which never had. Even the ones without TiM's involvment still had baggage such as Zaeed and Samara etc, which due to having baggage from the begiinning that could affect their focus I would not have brought along in first place.

[Guldhun2]

BlahDog wrote...
when exiting a mass relay there is milions of miles (Not sure if its millions but it is big) of drift. Cerberus cant cover that area, infact no one could and be able to fight it. Also moving in a fleet of ships around that area may make people think you are going to start a war with Omega.

That's what the IFF is for...so you don't have millions of miles of drift. You know, that thing the collectors use.

[sympathy4saren]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Packing the 13 (14 if you count Shep) best people in the galaxy on a tiny ship and sending them into the middle of the galaxy for no reason to stop an unknow enemy? Best..plan...ever.

You mean...exactly what Shepard did in ME1?

Yeah.

I thought Shepard was trying to hunt down Saren in ME1?

[CroGamer002]

Guldhun2 wrote...

-->..Or place some ships to guard it, cerberus apparantly has enough money..

Neither Alliance nor Turian Hierarchy ships stand a chance against Collector Ship.


Cerberus will need lot more then just money to stand a chance against Collector Ship.