6494 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Slavers are least tracable and leave signs on conflict. In these abdution, it look as if every on just got up and left. Which is the key oddity of the whole colony kidnapping. No one in the currect galexy has tech that does that to a colony and the reapers are the only race with more advance tech then we do.

So slavers have found a way to mask their pressence, It's still a more proberble suspect that the ancient machine Gods, Hell the Geth would also be a more likely suspect.

That's one of the problems of ME2 is that everything moves on such a tiny scale that the game seems like a thinned down Mass Effect experience.

The thing is that slves leave sign that they have been their. Fire fights, notes of explotions, even resadue of gas would be left. The same thing with the geth..... The thing is nothing was found but perfectly unharmed buildings. You see thing in freedom's progress. Nothing was damaged, nothing whas shown how it was done. Anything that was used is beyond the current  tech in galexy. The only race with more tech then we do in the reapers and they ae the only ones that obduct people in mass the way theat happen to the kidnapped collonies.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.He was not attacked because he was not a threat. His probes landed no where near the collector base. The reason why Shepard got the iff in the fitst palce was to be able to land in the right area.

First of all you don't know where the SB probe went since it is never stated anywhere.
Second how can Shepard know how to "land in the right area" when Shepard has no idea what is beyond the Omega 4 relay?

These are all arguments after the fact.

.....The reaper IFF....http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF....the whole reason why you when to the delic reaper was to get it....why? Because it give you the detail of where the safe zone is the center of the galexy. And Shepard is the only on that has it who is not indocrinated.

Ehh okay i fail to see your point here, But you also earlier stated that the SB probe had the IFF so what is it?

No, I said SB did not have the IFF.The point is nothing is getting close to collector base without it. Si The SB probings are pointless because he would never get close to the collector base with them to get info.

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

No, I said SB did not have the IFF.The point is nothing is getting close to collector base without it. Si The SB probings are pointless because he would never get close to the collector base with them to get info.

No you didn't

dreman9999 wrote...
Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.

And you still have no idea what the kind of data the SB's probe gained since it is never stated in game.

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

The thing is that slves leave sign that they have been their. Fire fights, notes of explotions, even resadue of gas would be left. The same thing with the geth..... The thing is nothing was found but perfectly unharmed buildings. You see thing in freedom's progress. Nothing was damaged, nothing whas shown how it was done. Anything that was used is beyond the current  tech in galexy. The only race with more tech then we do in the reapers and they ae the only ones that obduct people in mass the way theat happen to the kidnapped collonies.

Still more likely that Slavers or somebody else have gotten their hands on some unknown tech than reapers kidnapping a colony, TIM pretty much pulls the whole Reapers are causing it out of his ass..along with "the pattern is there just buried in the data" <--- this is the sort of lines a writer uses when he/she dosen't have a clue to explain something.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No, I said SB did not have the IFF.The point is nothing is getting close to collector base without it. Si The SB probings are pointless because he would never get close to the collector base with them to get info.

No you didn't

dreman9999 wrote...
Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.

And you still have no idea what the kind of data the SB's probe gained since it is never stated in game.

The iff comes from a reaper.........He clear does not have once since the first thing he stats to you is that  he wants to take yours.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The thing is that slves leave sign that they have been their. Fire fights, notes of explotions, even resadue of gas would be left. The same thing with the geth..... The thing is nothing was found but perfectly unharmed buildings. You see thing in freedom's progress. Nothing was damaged, nothing whas shown how it was done. Anything that was used is beyond the current  tech in galexy. The only race with more tech then we do in the reapers and they ae the only ones that obduct people in mass the way theat happen to the kidnapped collonies.

Still more likely that Slavers or somebody else have gotten their hands on some unknown tech than reapers kidnapping a colony, TIM pretty much pulls the whole Reapers are causing it out of his ass..along with "the pattern is there just buried in the data" <--- this is the sort of lines a writer uses when he/she dosen't have a clue to explain something.

They only ones that would have that this type of tech is the collectors or reapers. Being that they are slaver, they would not have the brains to replicate it or use it with out explination. Any they still be signs aka an emitions trail from their ship.....The only ship like that is with the alliance.

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No, I said SB did not have the IFF.The point is nothing is getting close to collector base without it. Si The SB probings are pointless because he would never get close to the collector base with them to get info.

No you didn't

dreman9999 wrote...
Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.

And you still have no idea what the kind of data the SB's probe gained since it is never stated in game.

The iff comes from a reaper.........He clear does not have once since the first thing he stats to you is that  he wants to take yours.

This is why it was mind boggling that you claimed he had the IFF.
Also think this thought.. The SB's probe made it though the relay and back without the IFF, So even from a meta gaming perspective it would make sense to send probes, there really isn't anything to debate about it.
If you're going into the unknown then scouting ahead is always a prudent action, Hell the game it self would make more sense.

Miranda :"Shepard our probe have returned, The images is fuzzy but we can make out a singel base and only one ship in the distance".
Shepard :"Only a single ship.. hmm we might be abel to infiltrate this base with only the twelve of us".

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

"Luckilly, as random and unexplainable in getting the soldiers is, getting the soldiers is really fun and the storytelling for them is good.  Side characters are all really cool, and although I can't say I understood them all, I really liked them.  They develop well.  Some have arcs.  In fact, some of them are the most fleshed out and believable side characters in video games.  And that's all really good stuff.  But they're in the wrong story.  They're completely useless to the main plot.  Sure we need them for the plot to continue but at that point we don't know why, except for Mordin.  His countermeasure is a plot device, which is fine.  But we've got eleven other guys. "

Meh.  

Jacob and Miranda come with the deal, representing Cerberus to start out with.  Grunt is the consolation prize for losing the second scientist, who happens to be someone who has dealt with the Collectors.  Mordin is a top-notch scientist. 

Beyond that, you'll need more than a bunch of typical Cerberus grunts to get the job done, whatever it turns out to be.  So you go get a bunch of highly competent people and pay and/or convince them to join you.  I

Garrus is the one really contrived squad member -- unless you think that TIM suspected that Archangel was Garrus. 

Overall, this is a perfect example of Smuddy WANTING to find problems, rather than just seeing real problems.  This whole "why the squad why?!?" thing just isn't that big a deal. 

The real problem with the squad is that they perhaps don't always come across as quite so competent as they're made out to be, but that would more about "Shep is the baddest" syndrome.

It's less about that then they have no real connection to the main plot aside from "Shepard asked them to come along"  Mordin has a reason, as he's the one who comes up with the Seeker countermeasure.  But the rest are really just passing through.  As smudboy said, their personal stories are well done, but have nothing to do with what's going on in ME2.

Another quote further in:

"This is so static and disconnected to the main plot that these side stories are individual stories.  Like when you buy a book at the bookstore, open it,  and twelve other books fall out.  At the end of a chapter of the book you thought you bought it says 'If you want, go see Book #3' Only you have to read the first chapter of that book before you can read the next chapter of the main book

"Writers are supposed to weave character exposition into the narrative.  Not have it be twelve other semiessential stories."

Again, MEH.  

It would be utterly contrived if every single one of them had a personal reason to go after the Collectors.  They were recruited for their abilities or their previous loyalties to Shep (Tali, for example), not for their personal grudges against the Collectors. 

This whole "WHY AREN'T THEY CONNECTED TO THE MAIN PLOT BY PERSONAL ISSUES?!?" thing was one of Smudboy's complaints back before he was banned here, and my response now is the same as it was then. 

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

They only ones that would have that this type of tech is the collectors or reapers. Being that they are slaver, they would not have the brains to replicate it or use it with out explination. Any they still be signs aka an emitions trail from their ship.....The only ship like that is with the alliance.

Stasis technology exists in the ME universe, modify a ship to be able to throw a wide area stasis field and you can take an entire colony it's really not that far fetched.

There is still no reason as to why TIM should suspect the reapers are behind the disappearances.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No, I said SB did not have the IFF.The point is nothing is getting close to collector base without it. Si The SB probings are pointless because he would never get close to the collector base with them to get info.

No you didn't

dreman9999 wrote...
Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.

And you still have no idea what the kind of data the SB's probe gained since it is never stated in game.

The iff comes from a reaper.........He clear does not have once since the first thing he stats to you is that  he wants to take yours.

This is why it was mind boggling that you claimed he had the IFF.
Also think this thought.. The SB's probe made it though the relay and back without the IFF, So even from a meta gaming perspective it would make sense to send probes, there really isn't anything to debate about it.
If you're going into the unknown then scouting ahead is always a prudent action, Hell the game it self would make more sense.

Miranda :"Shepard our probe have returned, The images is fuzzy but we can make out a singel base and only one ship in the distance".
Shepard :"Only a single ship.. hmm we might be abel to infiltrate this base with only the twelve of us".

Again, I never stated or ment to stated the sb had the iff. Also, having the iff doesn't mean you can use the omaga 4 relay, it just mean you can do it safely and get to the safe zone. The probes the sb set came back with no data, in peices, meaning they did not reach the safezone the collector base is in. And no it would not make sence to send probes. before sending the normaby.. why? Bacaue the collector would know that you are about to attack and set up a counter attack to take you out as soon as you landed in the area.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Yes, and that we can prepare accordigally.

Oh, that would be really useful.

It's like me giving you this:



And then telling you to prepare yourself based on this image alone.

Incredibly useful, eh?

Actually yes. Seeing that image would tell us the reapers are apparently connected to ancient quarian tech. Who knew?

Jokes aside a single image that shows us the station would help us.

First of all it eliminates many, MANY variables on what we could see on the other side, we are no longer going in blind, and from that image our ship might not be blown to dust after all, Yay! I have much more, but I am on a time limit here. I'll elaborate more if relevant later tonight.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They only ones that would have that this type of tech is the collectors or reapers. Being that they are slaver, they would not have the brains to replicate it or use it with out explination. Any they still be signs aka an emitions trail from their ship.....The only ship like that is with the alliance.

Stasis technology exists in the ME universe, modify a ship to be able to throw a wide area stasis field and you can take an entire colony it's really not that far fetched.

There is still no reason as to why TIM should suspect the reapers are behind the disappearances.

Yes, Stasis tech is in the mass effect universe but no mass unit stasis tech. You have to go face to face to use stasis tech to take down people. With the current stasis tech, you would of had a face to face confuntation to use it. If they had a face to face struggle, signs of that fight would be shown in the envirmment because theu would of fought back and sign of an ordered defensic group would be shown.

The fact allown the a massive amout of colionies are going miss with know signs how is enough to be suspect.

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 septembre 2011 - 10:18 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, I never stated or ment to stated the sb had the iff.

Look you did state it and it's really not my problem if you can't keep track of what you're writing.
Moving on.

 

Also, having the iff doesn't mean you can use the omaga 4 relay, it just mean you can do it safely and get to the safe zone. 
The probes the sb set came back with no data, in peices, meaning they did not reach the safezone the collector base is in. And no it would not make sence to send probes. before sending the normaby.. why? Bacaue the collector would know that you are about to attack and set up a counter attack to take you out as soon as you landed in the area.

Now you're just pulling things out of your butt.
You have no idea what kind of data if any the SB's probe gathered.

Also I'm not suggesting sending probes right before sending the Normandy, No send the probes as soon as Shep and co discovers the collectors are involved(it is a well known fact that the collectors uses the Omega 4 relay).

Hell with the amount of ships lost though the Omega 4 relay over the years it's kind of hard o understand why it isn't the most probed relay.

And I'm done with this your arguments keeps going in circles and are all based on after the fact knowledge.

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No for an attack. I mean to finIsh the reaper. The reaper is no where near finished in ME2.  Most people though that the reaper was for a new attack...Arival add new info the changes all of that. They were geting ready to hit earth to complete the rearper, not hit earth with the reaper once it's done. Arraival can be done anytime after Horision, so that means the reapers could be already in the galexy in your game. Their primary goal is to harvest humanity and then the rest of the galexy. What you did in the collector base is a big undo. They have to start from scratch now. It's going to take longer to make a reaper now.

Arcturus Station and an entire Alliance fleet guard the bottleneck to the Charon Relay.  Plus whatever's in the Local system as well.  One Collector cruiser would be a bug on the windshield.  literally.  Even if one cruiser did have the capacity ot carry off several billion humans before the other races could wonder why Earth suddenly went silent.

Yeah, not sure how the Collector ship, alone, would get to Earth.  Despite that nasty particle beam weapon, it would have faced raw firepower many orders of magnitude greater than even the upgraded SR-2 could bring to bear. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No for an attack. I mean to finIsh the reaper. The reaper is no where near finished in ME2.  Most people though that the reaper was for a new attack...Arival add new info the changes all of that. They were geting ready to hit earth to complete the rearper, not hit earth with the reaper once it's done. Arraival can be done anytime after Horision, so that means the reapers could be already in the galexy in your game. Their primary goal is to harvest humanity and then the rest of the galexy. What you did in the collector base is a big undo. They have to start from scratch now. It's going to take longer to make a reaper now.

Arcturus Station and an entire Alliance fleet guard the bottleneck to the Charon Relay.  Plus whatever's in the Local system as well.  One Collector cruiser would be a bug on the windshield.  literally.  Even if one cruiser did have the capacity ot carry off several billion humans before the other races could wonder why Earth suddenly went silent.

Yeah, not sure how the Collector ship, alone, would get to Earth.  Despite that nasty particle beam weapon, it would have faced raw firepower many orders of magnitude greater than even the upgraded SR-2 could bring to bear. 

I was refering to the reaper fleet. It was going to be finished after the invasion of earth.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Because the reapers are the only ones theat havest people with out any signs of detection. Shepard ask you very same question. Look at the firstr meet of TIM and Shep agein.......

And now were back to the HOW does TIM knows this?
See good writing would explain such things especially when they are plot relevant.
Lazy writing would just glance over it.

Didn't see you had added this.

2.The thing is, we can't gain any more info outside of what we got from thecollector ship. This is an enemy with better tech who is hiding behind a locked door with one way in. If we try to probe the relay for mor info on the collector after we get IFF....They will know we are about to attack and prepar a countor attack to take us out once the ship enter their space.

Well the Shadow Broker send a probe and there was no counter attack waiting for Shepard when they went though so i don't really see your point here.

Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.He was not attacked because he was not a threat. His probes landed no where near the collector base. The reason why Shepard got the iff in the fitst palce was to be able to land in the right area.

As depicted in the info you can find in the "Lair" when visiting after the mission, the Shadow Broker's ability to get information out of anywhere and learn anything he wants borders on magical nonsense.  Don't take it too seriously. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No for an attack. I mean to finIsh the reaper. The reaper is no where near finished in ME2.  Most people though that the reaper was for a new attack...Arival add new info the changes all of that. They were geting ready to hit earth to complete the rearper, not hit earth with the reaper once it's done. Arraival can be done anytime after Horision, so that means the reapers could be already in the galexy in your game. Their primary goal is to harvest humanity and then the rest of the galexy. What you did in the collector base is a big undo. They have to start from scratch now. It's going to take longer to make a reaper now.

Arcturus Station and an entire Alliance fleet guard the bottleneck to the Charon Relay.  Plus whatever's in the Local system as well.  One Collector cruiser would be a bug on the windshield.  literally.  Even if one cruiser did have the capacity ot carry off several billion humans before the other races could wonder why Earth suddenly went silent.

Yeah, not sure how the Collector ship, alone, would get to Earth.  Despite that nasty particle beam weapon, it would have faced raw firepower many orders of magnitude greater than even the upgraded SR-2 could bring to bear. 

I was refering to the reaper fleet. It was going to be finished after the invasion of earth.

With just the Collector ship? 

Or are you saying that the "human reaper"  (ugh) would not have been completed until after the full Reaper invasion and conquest of Earth? 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Because the reapers are the only ones theat havest people with out any signs of detection. Shepard ask you very same question. Look at the firstr meet of TIM and Shep agein.......

And now were back to the HOW does TIM knows this?
See good writing would explain such things especially when they are plot relevant.
Lazy writing would just glance over it.

Didn't see you had added this.

2.The thing is, we can't gain any more info outside of what we got from thecollector ship. This is an enemy with better tech who is hiding behind a locked door with one way in. If we try to probe the relay for mor info on the collector after we get IFF....They will know we are about to attack and prepar a countor attack to take us out once the ship enter their space.

Well the Shadow Broker send a probe and there was no counter attack waiting for Shepard when they went though so i don't really see your point here.

Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.He was not attacked because he was not a threat. His probes landed no where near the collector base. The reason why Shepard got the iff in the fitst palce was to be able to land in the right area.

As depicted in the info you can find in the "Lair" when visiting after the mission, the Shadow Broker's ability to get information out of anywhere and learn anything he wants borders on magical nonsense.  Don't take it too seriously. 

If the sb had an IFF, he would not need yours.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No for an attack. I mean to finIsh the reaper. The reaper is no where near finished in ME2.  Most people though that the reaper was for a new attack...Arival add new info the changes all of that. They were geting ready to hit earth to complete the rearper, not hit earth with the reaper once it's done. Arraival can be done anytime after Horision, so that means the reapers could be already in the galexy in your game. Their primary goal is to harvest humanity and then the rest of the galexy. What you did in the collector base is a big undo. They have to start from scratch now. It's going to take longer to make a reaper now.

Arcturus Station and an entire Alliance fleet guard the bottleneck to the Charon Relay.  Plus whatever's in the Local system as well.  One Collector cruiser would be a bug on the windshield.  literally.  Even if one cruiser did have the capacity ot carry off several billion humans before the other races could wonder why Earth suddenly went silent.

Yeah, not sure how the Collector ship, alone, would get to Earth.  Despite that nasty particle beam weapon, it would have faced raw firepower many orders of magnitude greater than even the upgraded SR-2 could bring to bear. 

I was refering to the reaper fleet. It was going to be finished after the invasion of earth.

With just the Collector ship? 

Or are you saying that the "human reaper"  (ugh) would not have been completed until after the full Reaper invasion and conquest of Earth? 

I'm saying that he human reaper would not be completed until after the full reaper invasion and conquest of earth. The whole harvest thing in ME2 was to start the reaper.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Because the reapers are the only ones theat havest people with out any signs of detection. Shepard ask you very same question. Look at the firstr meet of TIM and Shep agein.......

And now were back to the HOW does TIM knows this?
See good writing would explain such things especially when they are plot relevant.
Lazy writing would just glance over it.

Didn't see you had added this.

2.The thing is, we can't gain any more info outside of what we got from thecollector ship. This is an enemy with better tech who is hiding behind a locked door with one way in. If we try to probe the relay for mor info on the collector after we get IFF....They will know we are about to attack and prepar a countor attack to take us out once the ship enter their space.

Well the Shadow Broker send a probe and there was no counter attack waiting for Shepard when they went though so i don't really see your point here.

Also, the SB did have the iff needed to get to the area of the collector base.He was not attacked because he was not a threat. His probes landed no where near the collector base. The reason why Shepard got the iff in the fitst palce was to be able to land in the right area.

As depicted in the info you can find in the "Lair" when visiting after the mission, the Shadow Broker's ability to get information out of anywhere and learn anything he wants borders on magical nonsense.  Don't take it too seriously. 

If the sb had an IFF, he would not need yours.

I was refering to the claim that the SB had sent a probe through the Omega 4 Relay and got back information.  It's silly.  He doesn't, as you point out, have an IFF.  His probes would all hit debris or end up in a bad place, or get wacked by Occuli moments after arriving if they randomly came into a clear and gravitationally safe area. 

[Il Divo]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...


This is why it was mind boggling that you claimed he had the IFF.
Also think this thought.. The SB's probe made it though the relay and back without the IFF, So even from a meta gaming perspective it would make sense to send probes, there really isn't anything to debate about it.
If you're going into the unknown then scouting ahead is always a prudent action, Hell the game it self would make more sense.

Miranda :"Shepard our probe have returned, The images is fuzzy but we can make out a singel base and only one ship in the distance".
Shepard :"Only a single ship.. hmm we might be abel to infiltrate this base with only the twelve of us".

But you've already assume that TIM's probes will successfully return. He has no access to the Shadowbroker's knowledge and the damaged probe returning was a one in a million occurrence. There's no way TIM could actually account for the drift a probe experiences passing through a relay any more than he could account for a ship's drift. From that perspective, sending a probe (or more probes) through is a futile gesture, especially since he believes no ship has successfully navigated the relay.

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 septembre 2011 - 11:03 .

[111987]

For the love of...

Look, the Shadow Broker's probes got INCREDIBLY lucky to have even returned at all. Before those probes, nothing EVER had reportedly returned from beyond the Omega 4 Relay. And despite how amazingly fortunate the Shadow Broker was...his probes were in pieces. Come on, how could a piece of a probe give you any useful data?

The fact is, sending a probe is useless because in the last 2000 years since the current organic crop, only one thing has come back through that relay.

Besides, the Illusive Man says that he is investing all resources into finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. This may have included sending probes through. Maybe not. Regardless, it adds nothing to the story to say probes have been sent through when we know no ship has ever returned. That's good enough.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

For the love of...

Look, the Shadow Broker's probes got INCREDIBLY lucky to have even returned at all. Before those probes, nothing EVER had reportedly returned from beyond the Omega 4 Relay. And despite how amazingly fortunate the Shadow Broker was...his probes were in pieces. Come on, how could a piece of a probe give you any useful data?

The fact is, sending a probe is useless because in the last 2000 years since the current organic crop, only one thing has come back through that relay.

Besides, the Illusive Man says that he is investing all resources into finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. This may have included sending probes through. Maybe not. Regardless, it adds nothing to the story to say probes have been sent through when we know no ship has ever returned. That's good enough.

Add on the fact we get the info on the collectors from the collector ship anyway.

[Iakus]

Tony77A wrote...

Smudboy basically touches on every single issue I had with the story/plot of ME2, and it only got worse with the arrival dlc.
Why go through all the trouble when you're basically around the corner....

It might get explained in ME3, but I kind of doubt it.

I think a Suicide Mission based around Arrival would have been a far more worthy storyline fro ME2.

Modifié par iakus, 06 septembre 2011 - 11:13 .

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote....

The fact that theyhave a longer time limit then what they had before means they were delayed. The have to start over, giving us much more time to put together a fleet to take them out. If we did not do what we did in ME2.....they would have benn able to focus more resorces to the rest of the galexy.

I'm still not seeing it.

Basically, Shepard broke the soup pot.  The cook still has the axe.

The chicken's life expectancy has not been lengthened by a single hour.