6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Zeevico]

Spot on, Smudboy. Spot on. Smudboy is on the spot; the spot is on him; the spot has met the on and they have intersected.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Someone With Mass wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

ME2's plot is pretty thin. I mean Shep gets resurrected and then goes works for Cerberus? Surely he'd report back to the council wouldn't he?

Some of the points Smudboy makes are quite valid.

However I think he needs to realise that actually it's just a game.

That's simply not enough for some people. They're expecting the best story ever.

No, I expect a good story.

[dreman9999]

Zeevico wrote...

Spot on, Smudboy. Spot on. Smudboy is on the spot; the spot is on him; the spot has met the on and they have intersected.

Thanks for ignoring the last 128 pages. If you want to make a comment, read the last pages...

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

Spot on, Smudboy. Spot on. Smudboy is on the spot; the spot is on him; the spot has met the on and they have intersected.

Thanks for ignoring the last 128 pages. If you want to make a comment, read the last pages...

He's trolling.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

ME2's plot is pretty thin. I mean Shep gets resurrected and then goes works for Cerberus? Surely he'd report back to the council wouldn't he?

Some of the points Smudboy makes are quite valid.

However I think he needs to realise that actually it's just a game.

That's simply not enough for some people. They're expecting the best story ever.

No, I expect a good story.

If you look at the details of the story, you'll find it isa good story.

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.

ME2's plot is stopping the Collectors. Thats it.

Tehre is no connection ebtween Arrival and ME2. Arrival is copletely self-sufficient (or incapsulated) - it has NOTHING to do with ME2. You could plop it in ME1 and it would fit just as well. TI has nothing to do with ME2 plot. It's not part of ME2 plot.

Or not, since the player wouldn't know who the hell Harbinger is.

Nor would it make sense when Hackett talks about the SR-2 Normandy.

There wouldn't be an explenation to why Shepard is able to resist the anesthetics or what the hell he's using to get out of his cell either.

It is downloadable content for ME2 as well as LotSB. They are very much a part of the plot.

Especially LotSB, since it has connections to Redemption, which involved the Collectors and Cerberus.

No.

Arrival is not part of ME2 plot. Period.It's DLC. It's optional. It's self-contaned. It has no direct ties with ME2 plot.
Get your head out of hte sand.

Why are you not getting that ME is a trilogy? Everything from ME1 to ME3 is one giant plot. They may have plot points bu t the arrival dlc is part of the trolgy plot in a whole.

You are missing the point. We are not debating Mass Effect's overarching plot but Mass Effect 2's specifically. This pertains to what you received upon a launch date purchase. LotSB and Arrival are not apart of that.

[Someone With Mass]

ME2 is working like most second games/movie in trilogies do. Gather allies, prepare and fight the minions of the major bad guy.

It's not the best, but it's certainly not the worst.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

ME2's plot is pretty thin. I mean Shep gets resurrected and then goes works for Cerberus? Surely he'd report back to the council wouldn't he?

Some of the points Smudboy makes are quite valid.

However I think he needs to realise that actually it's just a game.

That's simply not enough for some people. They're expecting the best story ever.

No, I expect a good story.

If you look at the details of the story, you'll find it isa good story.

No, I'm not going to invent the narrative for Bioware, that is their job, not mine. Deus Ex and Uncharted 2 are good stories because the writing is short, consise, and clear. This thing is a poorly written mess from beggining to end credits.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Ok, regarding the Terminator, what the hell is "the essence of a species?"

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

No, I'm not going to invent the narrative for Bioware, that is their job, not mine. Deus Ex and Uncharted 2 are good stories because the writing is short, consise, and clear. This thing is a poorly written mess from beggining to end credits.

Don't want a personal imput, then don't play the game.

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.

ME2's plot is stopping the Collectors. Thats it.

Tehre is no connection ebtween Arrival and ME2. Arrival is copletely self-sufficient (or incapsulated) - it has NOTHING to do with ME2. You could plop it in ME1 and it would fit just as well. TI has nothing to do with ME2 plot. It's not part of ME2 plot.

Or not, since the player wouldn't know who the hell Harbinger is.

Nor would it make sense when Hackett talks about the SR-2 Normandy.

There wouldn't be an explenation to why Shepard is able to resist the anesthetics or what the hell he's using to get out of his cell either.

It is downloadable content for ME2 as well as LotSB. They are very much a part of the plot.

Especially LotSB, since it has connections to Redemption, which involved the Collectors and Cerberus.

No.

Arrival is not part of ME2 plot. Period.It's DLC. It's optional. It's self-contaned. It has no direct ties with ME2 plot.
Get your head out of hte sand.

Why are you not getting that ME is a trilogy? Everything from ME1 to ME3 is one giant plot. They may have plot points bu t the arrival dlc is part of the trolgy plot in a whole.

You are missing the point. We are not debating Mass Effect's overarching plot but Mass Effect 2's specifically. This pertains to what you received upon a launch date purchase. LotSB and Arrival are not apart of that.

Think of it more of a plot put to gether by a series of novels. Each new novel adds to the plot of the one that came before. Each novel has it's own plot line  but they all have the same overaching plot. In the case of arrival....It part of the overarching plot. The dealings with the collector is a plot line in ME2 but the fact that the colllectors are just tools for the reapers the sameway Saren was a tool of the reapers makes ME2 story part of the overarching plot.
Hence trilogy.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

No, I'm not going to invent the narrative for Bioware, that is their job, not mine. Deus Ex and Uncharted 2 are good stories because the writing is short, consise, and clear. This thing is a poorly written mess from beggining to end credits.

Don't want a personal imput, then don't play the game.

Who says I play the game for the story? If you're talking about the dialouge decisions I have no problem making those. That doesn't mean this is a good story.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Ok, regarding the Terminator, what the hell is "the essence of a species?"

Did we went over this already? It's DNA, or more spacific, all the genetic variation and details of a speices.

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...[/list]Yet it relivent to them enough to send the indorinated cerberus after her? She has the cure for the genophage in her....Giving the the ability to make more krogan numbers........If she was not important then they would never send cerberus after them. And if they have not arrived yet, that's a clear sign that they are focus else where...on earth.

• There is no mention of the genophage throughout that clip, at least not the one where Casay talks about the gameplay.
• It has yet to be confirmed if Cerberus is indoctrinated or why the are attacking Shepard.
• Who cares about the numbers she can create? They still have to grow and the Reapers can destroy planets in far less the amount of time.
• You continuously avoid answering what the other Reapers are doing, unless you presume all three hundred are at Earth.
• Unless you have documented fact; a statement from BioWare solidifying your argument (No a demo doesn't count) You are speculating.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:24 .

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.

ME2's plot is stopping the Collectors. Thats it.

Tehre is no connection ebtween Arrival and ME2. Arrival is copletely self-sufficient (or incapsulated) - it has NOTHING to do with ME2. You could plop it in ME1 and it would fit just as well. TI has nothing to do with ME2 plot. It's not part of ME2 plot.

Or not, since the player wouldn't know who the hell Harbinger is.

Nor would it make sense when Hackett talks about the SR-2 Normandy.

There wouldn't be an explenation to why Shepard is able to resist the anesthetics or what the hell he's using to get out of his cell either.

It is downloadable content for ME2 as well as LotSB. They are very much a part of the plot.

Especially LotSB, since it has connections to Redemption, which involved the Collectors and Cerberus.

No.

Arrival is not part of ME2 plot. Period.It's DLC. It's optional. It's self-contaned. It has no direct ties with ME2 plot.
Get your head out of hte sand.

Why are you not getting that ME is a trilogy? Everything from ME1 to ME3 is one giant plot. They may have plot points bu t the arrival dlc is part of the trolgy plot in a whole.

You are missing the point. We are not debating Mass Effect's overarching plot but Mass Effect 2's specifically. This pertains to what you received upon a launch date purchase. LotSB and Arrival are not apart of that.

Think of it more of a plot put to gether by a series of novels. Each new novel adds to the plot of the one that came before. Each novel has it's own plot line  but they all have the same overaching plot. In the case of arrival....It part of the overarching plot. The dealings with the collector is a plot line in ME2 but the fact that the colllectors are just tools for the reapers the sameway Saren was a tool of the reapers makes ME2 story part of the overarching plot.
Hence trilogy.

A trilogy does not mean you canwrite poorly until the last act. Each story in and of itself must still uphold to standards. Mass Effect 2 didn't go back and fix the problems that were in Mass Effect 1. Why would Mass Effect 3 do any different?

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

ME2's plot is pretty thin. I mean Shep gets resurrected and then goes works for Cerberus? Surely he'd report back to the council wouldn't he?

Some of the points Smudboy makes are quite valid.

However I think he needs to realise that actually it's just a game.

That's simply not enough for some people. They're expecting the best story ever.

No, I expect a good story.

If you look at the details of the story, you'll find it isa good story.

No, I'm not going to invent the narrative for Bioware, that is their job, not mine. Deus Ex and Uncharted 2 are good stories because the writing is short, consise, and clear. This thing is a poorly written mess from beggining to end credits.

Who ever said you have to invent a narritive? In any plot or story to understand what is going on you needto know the characters, why they are doing thing and how the do it. Like in Hamlet, you understand why hamlet wants revenge on his uncle and why he doesn't take revege sooner to understand the plot. It's 101 of liturature.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.

Arrival is not part of ME2 plot. Period.It's DLC. It's optional. It's self-contaned. It has no direct ties with ME2 plot.
Get your head out of hte sand.

Why are you not getting that ME is a trilogy? Everything from ME1 to ME3 is one giant plot. They may have plot points bu t the arrival dlc is part of the trolgy plot in a whole.

A fallacy. We're discussing ME2's plot. It, as a sequel, has a plot of it's own - evne if it's (or at elast should be) part of a a bigger one.

You're basicly telling me that one can't discuss the plot of the Empire Strikes Back, because SW is a trilogy. Or Matrix: Revolutons cannot be discussed.

Seriously..you're now reaching so far out it's past funny and into grotesque.

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Think of it more of a plot put to gether by a series of novels. Each new novel adds to the plot of the one that came before. Each novel has it's own plot line  but they all have the same overaching plot. In the case of arrival....It part of the overarching plot. The dealings with the collector is a plot line in ME2 but the fact that the colllectors are just tools for the reapers the sameway Saren was a tool of the reapers makes ME2 story part of the overarching plot.
Hence trilogy.

... I have no idea what you are rambling on here. No one denied this was a trilogy or that Arrival was apart of the overarching plot. What we have argued is when people claim ME2 has a poorly written story, LotSB and Arrival cannot be used as a rebuttal. That is all. Nothing else, just that.

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...[/list]Yet it relivent to them enough to send the indorinated cerberus after her? She has the cure for the genophage in her....Giving the the ability to make more krogan numbers........If she was not important then they would never send cerberus after them. And if they have not arrived yet, that's a clear sign that they are focus else where...on earth.

• There is no mention of the genophage throughout that clip, at least not the one where Casay talks about the gameplay.
  
• It has yet to be confirmed if Cerberus is indoctrinated or why the are attacking Shepard.
  
• Who cares about the numbers she can create? They still have to grow and the Reapers can destroy planets in far less the amount of time.
  
• You continuously avoid answering what the other Reapers are doing, unless you presume all three hundred are at Earth.
  
• Unless you have documented fact; a statement from BioWare solidifying your argument (No a demo doesn't count) You are speculating.

1. Yes, is the demos bioware shown many times it mentioned. Chris mention it himself when he did a walk though on gamespot.
[*]2. Yes, it has in that demo. Shepard states it as well.
[*]3.The reapers are trying to keep the races apart. She is a key to the krogan joining the other races to fight the reapers.
[*]4.They are on earth and spread thinly though out the galexy. The way they attack earth is an indication that their focus is earth for now.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Ok, regarding the Terminator, what the hell is "the essence of a species?"

Did we went over this already? It's DNA, or more spacific, all the genetic variation and details of a speices.

DNA is not what it fundemently is to be human. If they just needed the DNA of humans, they wouldn't even need a single body let alone millions like Jurrasic Park?. DNA is what makes our physical being but it isn't what makes us Human.

[Someone With Mass]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

• There is no mention of the genophage throughout that clip, at least not the one where Casay talks about the gameplay.
• It has yet to be confirmed if Cerberus is indoctrinated or why the are attacking Shepard.
• Who cares about the numbers she can create? They still have to grow and the Reapers can destroy planets in far less the amount of time.
• You continuously avoid answering what the other Reapers are doing, unless you presume all three hundred are at Earth.
• Unless you have documented fact; a statement from BioWare solidifying your argument (No a demo doesn't count) You are speculating.

And you're running on speculation too, since you say that there are only three hundred Reapers, which we have no solid way of knowing.

That last cutscene don't count, since there could be Reapers outside the shot.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...
Who ever said you have to invent a narritive? In any plot or story to understand what is going on you needto know the characters, why they are doing thing and how the do it. Like in Hamlet, you understand why hamlet wants revenge on his uncle and why he doesn't take revege sooner to understand the plot. It's 101 of liturature.

If you understood the 101 of literature, you wouldn't be defending ME2 bad writing.

[Someone With Mass]

And if people understood video game story 101, then we wouldn't have smug pricks trying to be bashing and entertaining at the same time, while failing at it something fierce.

[marstor05]

I just had a very weird idea about shep thinking about all these ramblings. What if Shep is a Reaper? TIMs attempt at creating human reaper tech - via Lazarus? But it had problems - and thats why TIM wanted to save the base so he could get the missing piece of his jigsaw? Therefore Shep would find out he's the very thing he's trying to destroy.

/Headache

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Think of it more of a plot put to gether by a series of novels. Each new novel adds to the plot of the one that came before. Each novel has it's own plot line  but they all have the same overaching plot. In the case of arrival....It part of the overarching plot. The dealings with the collector is a plot line in ME2 but the fact that the colllectors are just tools for the reapers the sameway Saren was a tool of the reapers makes ME2 story part of the overarching plot.
Hence trilogy.

... I have no idea what you are rambling on here. No one denied this was a trilogy or that Arrival was apart of the overarching plot. What we have argued is when people claim ME2 has a poorly written story, LotSB and Arrival cannot be used as a rebuttal. That is all. Nothing else, just that.

....We not agrueing if ME2 is a badly written story. I argueing that ME2 is part of the overarching plot. If it about the story quality, you need to understand the characters to see how well written the story is. The arrival dlc, add to the story showing what the reapers general goal in attack is, being that the dlc can be done any time after horizion. The fact the arrical adds more info on the reapers cahnges the perspective on what they are doing. Before the arriavl dlc, people though the human reaperwas going to attack the citidel or earth after it was made. Now we know that the human reaper was going to be finished after the invasion, which the reapers where planning to start soon.