6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....
As for mass effect, no character ask out of character....they may change because of event but they are not out of charcter. thE VS act the same way they did in ME1. Every character never act out of charcter. You just don't agree on the same thing. Even Liara is not out of character, her craziness is just showing more then usual.

http://www.youtube.c...8a8N0c4ao#t=88s

ME1, Kaidan is billed a rational and level headed individual, both he and Ash are willing to mutiny for Shepard. In ME2, they won't even give her the time of day simply because Cerberus is mentioned, and instead make ridiculous nonsensical statements. Meanwhile, Liara has not eaten in lord only knows how long and believes she is hallucinating, whereas in ME2, she is threatening to kill people. Yeah, those do not relate. They are retcons. Liara gets better because of a DLC.

 Characters change over time; it is not that unusual or terrible for that change in character (especially when they aren't central) to have occured 'off-stage'

Yes but the story does not explain their mystery or even give us us hints as to why they could be acting this way, the writers decided to cop out.

Again, I have to ask What has changed? What caused the change in them? nothing in their verbal assult on common sense implied any change, just a convenience for the plot. The answer to all of these questions is of couse, is ****ty writing.

For Liara, it was all the death and loss that happen in her life. Her mother, Shepard, and Feron

The VS, nothing has changed. In fact them hating cerberus is in character with how they felt about cerberus in ME1. And Ashley and Kaiden are characters that alway wanted to prove their loyalty to the alliance. Ashley with her families black mark and Kaiden because he want to prove the being a biotic is not a curse. Being with Cerberus would not aid in those stigmas. Ashley case it would be her turning trator to the Alliance she been trying for yearto prove her value, and for Kaiden it would show that they were right to not trust biotics.

The DLC patched Liara up a bit. But her mothers death caused no change in her in ME 1, so why now?

The entire VS senario is BS. Ashley is loyal to Alliance for the sake of contrivance, its never explained how or why she feels this way considering she commited mutiny AGAINST the Alliance in ME 1, which proves DISloyalty, But that does not equate to her outright hatered of Cerberus, who were also retconned. Kaiden is the most level headed and logical guy I've seen in the ME universe. Besides, the catalyst for these changes weren't Cerberus anyway, you're making stuff up.

The argument was never that they didn't go with Cerberus in the first place. I am asking what the change is, and what caused it.

She delt with it silenly. But just because you can take one strong blow does not mean you can take 2 more strong blows. If I mean the death and loss in her life change her, I mean all the death and loss together. A death of someone or someones in your life can change you. I you loss someone you'll understand.

Ashley Loyalty is explained in ME1. She is trying to save the face of her families falling grace, her grand fathers failure in the first contact war. With that she jion the alliance to undoher families failure. The fact alown that joining cerberus would mean she is a trator to the alliance.
As for Kaiden.........Younever seen renegade Kaiden..... On point he also has something to prove,too. His entire life he has been treated and a monster capable of great destrution due to the properganda the alliance did to get parent to send their biotic children to the alliance to be trained. Wouldn't joining cerberus show that they were right to fear biotics?

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2011 - 04:06 .

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally

....What you described is Interpretation.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally

....What you described is Interpretation.

Do I need to link this again?

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally

....What you described is Interpretation.

The exact same.

Are you actually saying that you have to interprit a story that flat out tells you several times that a person is impulsive??

You do not have to to conceive the significance of anything in Romeo and Juliet, It is a well written story that tells you everything from Plot, Narrative, Charactersation to story.

What is your point..if you have any??

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally

....What you described is Interpretation.

Do I need to link this again?

You not understading my point. You link supports the fact that me2 has a story in general.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....

Yeah Romeos trait of impulsiveness comes up in the story all the time,It comes up when Romeo leaves Rosaline on a whim a girl he until then had been so infatuated with that he suffered a depression, It come up when Romeo suggests to Juliet they should marry after only knowing her a very short time, It comes up when Romeo first refuses to fight Tybalt and then fights him anyway - Impulsiveness is Romeos character trait and it's supported by the story  It's not interpreted.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally

....What you described is Interpretation.

The exact same.

Are you actually saying that you have to interprit a story that flat out tells you several times that a person is impulsive??

You do not have to to conceive the significance of anything in Romeo and Juliet, It is a well written story that tells you everything from Plot, Narrative, Charactersation to story.

What is your point..if you have any??

You know that Romeo is impulsive because of the way he acts, not that the story lituraly tells you he is impulsive. He act impulsive thus you understand he is impulive. That's the same consept I'm trying to say. If you look at the way the characters act scene to scene, you understand why they are doing the action that they are doing. Romeo act impulsive in the play, and because he acts impulsive it lead to his end. TIM want to uplift humanity to power and stop the reaper, so he revive Shepard.
The characters actions tell you what they are doing and why, just how you know romeo is impulsive, I know TIM is back hand explotive liar. By their actions. AND YOU HAVE TO INTERPRET THEIR ACTIONS.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
She delt with it silenly. But just because you can take one strong blow does not mean you can take 2 more strong blows. If I mean the death and loss in her life change her, I mean all the death and loss together. A death of someone or someones in your life can change you. I you loss someone you'll understand.

Ashley Loyalty is explained in ME1. She is trying to save the face of her families falling grace, her grand fathers failure in the first contact war. With that she jion the alliance to undoher families failure. The fact alown that joining cerberus would mean she is a trator to the alliance.
As for Kaiden.........Younever seen renegade Kaiden..... On point he also has something to prove,too. His entire life he has been treated and a monster capable of great destrution due to the properganda the alliance did to get parent to send their biotic children to the alliance to be trained. Wouldn't joining cerberus show that they were right to fear biotics?

They trusted Shepard enough to steal the Alliance's most advanced warship from the Citadel!. This is with their loyalty to the Alliance.  And they call Shepard a traitor after saving them and half a colony?  This definitely makes the top three in bad writing as far as ME2 goes.

Sure they can disapprove of Shepard's choice.  But traitor?  Really?

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
She delt with it silenly. But just because you can take one strong blow does not mean you can take 2 more strong blows. If I mean the death and loss in her life change her, I mean all the death and loss together. A death of someone or someones in your life can change you. I you loss someone you'll understand.

Ashley Loyalty is explained in ME1. She is trying to save the face of her families falling grace, her grand fathers failure in the first contact war. With that she jion the alliance to undoher families failure. The fact alown that joining cerberus would mean she is a trator to the alliance.
As for Kaiden.........Younever seen renegade Kaiden..... On point he also has something to prove,too. His entire life he has been treated and a monster capable of great destrution due to the properganda the alliance did to get parent to send their biotic children to the alliance to be trained. Wouldn't joining cerberus show that they were right to fear biotics?

They trusted Shepard enough to steal the Alliance's most advanced warship from the Citadel!. This is with their loyalty to the Alliance.  And they call Shepard a traitor after saving them and half a colony?  This definitely makes the top three in bad writing as far as ME2 goes.

Sure they can disapprove of Shepard's choice.  But traitor?  Really?

They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...

You know that Romeo is impulsive because of the way he acts, not that the story lituraly tells you he is impulsive.[/quotes]
He act impulsive thus you understand he is impulive. That's the same consept I'm trying to say. If you look at the way the characters act scene to scene, you understand why they are doing the action that they are doing. Romeo act impulsive in the play, and because he acts impulsive it lead to his end. TIM want to uplift humanity to power and stop the reaper, so he revive Shepard.
The characters actions tell you what they are doing and why, just how you know romeo is impulsive, I know TIM is back hand explotive liar. By their actions. AND YOU HAVE TO INTERPRET THEIR ACTIONS.

Oh my God.. look at your own F'''''' link and then come back when you have even the slimmest idea of what you're talking about.

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.
[/quote]

I never said they should join Shepard.  I totally get not joining Shepard.  But the hostile attitude?  Horizon demonstrated just how dire the situation was.  They trusted SHepard before on little more than visions.  Seeing bug-eyed aliens carry off half a colony wasn't enough?

[Veex]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...
They trusted Shepard enough to steal the Alliance's most advanced warship from the Citadel!. This is with their loyalty to the Alliance.  And they call Shepard a traitor after saving them and half a colony?  This definitely makes the top three in bad writing as far as ME2 goes.

Sure they can disapprove of Shepard's choice.  But traitor?  Really?

They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.

In addition to that, its been two years and Shepard has apparently been reconstructed by Cerberus whom Kaidan and Ashely are each critical of. They've got good reason to be skeptical about Shepard joining or working with Cerberus, traitor might be strong, but I wouldn't say its implausible.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You know that Romeo is impulsive because of the way he acts, not that the story lituraly tells you he is impulsive.[/quotes]
He act impulsive thus you understand he is impulive. That's the same consept I'm trying to say. If you look at the way the characters act scene to scene, you understand why they are doing the action that they are doing. Romeo act impulsive in the play, and because he acts impulsive it lead to his end. TIM want to uplift humanity to power and stop the reaper, so he revive Shepard.
The characters actions tell you what they are doing and why, just how you know romeo is impulsive, I know TIM is back hand explotive liar. By their actions. AND YOU HAVE TO INTERPRET THEIR ACTIONS.

Oh my God.. look at your own F'''''' link and then come back when you have even the slimmest idea of what you're talking about.

in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally
..........To know that Romero is acting impulsive yougave to look at his actions and understand that he is acting impulsive...That's interpreting his actions......To conceive the significance of......#2 in the meaning I posted.
You need to do that with the character in ME2.

[dreman9999]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.
[/quote]

I never said they should join Shepard.  I totally get not joining Shepard.  But the hostile attitude?  Horizon demonstrated just how dire the situation was.  They trusted SHepard before on little more than visions.  Seeing bug-eyed aliens carry off half a colony wasn't enough?

[/quote]
They don't trust cerberus with good reason. You may not like it but they have apoint. You may not like it, and you did argue that your not a trator but in the end you and they know cerberuses history ...they can't be trusted. It a case of agreeing to dissagree .

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...
in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally
..........To know that Romero is acting impulsive yougave to look at his actions and understand that he is acting impulsive...That's interpreting his actions......To conceive the significance of......#2 in the meaning I posted.
You need to do that with the character in ME2.

If you see a man commit a murder on stage you do not interpret him as a murder you're flat out told he's a murder.
If you see a woman washing clothe by the river you do not interpret that as a woman washing clothe by the river.. you're told it's a woman washing clothes by the river.
If you see a man do impulsive acts again and again you do not interpret that man as being impulsive you're told he is.

You do not have to conceive the significance of any of these scenes because YOU*RE TOLD WHAT IS HAPPENING.

An example of Interpretation is to construe the significance of the monolith in 2001 or in this case the reason behind the human reaper larvae, You have no information so you conceive a significance of the human reaper larvae and then sadly present it here as fact. 

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
in·ter·pret
play_w2("I0196000")
....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interpreted

1. To explain the meaning of: interpreted the ambassador's remarks. See Synonyms at explain.
2. To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation.
3. To present or conceptualize the meaning of by means of art or criticism.
4. To translate orally
..........To know that Romero is acting impulsive yougave to look at his actions and understand that he is acting impulsive...That's interpreting his actions......To conceive the significance of......#2 in the meaning I posted.
You need to do that with the character in ME2.

If you see a man commit a murder on stage you do not interpret him as a murder you're flat out told he's a murder.
If you see a woman washing clothe by the river you do not interpret that as a woman washing clothe by the river.. you're told it's a woman washing clothes by the river.
If you see a man do impulsive acts again and again you do not interpret that man as being impulsive you're told he is.

You do not have to conceive the significance of any of these scenes because YOU*RE TOLD WHAT IS HAPPENING.

An example of Interpretation is to construe the significance of the monolith in 2001 or in this case the reason behind the human reaper larvae, You have no information so you conceive a significance of the human reaper larvae and then sadly present it here as fact. 

The awnser to you question is that you interpreting all those thing and it easy to interpret. that covered in the second meaning of the word. You not flat out told...You see it.


con·ceivehttp://www.merriam-w...ionary/conceive
2[/i]: to take into one's mind <conceive a prejudice> b[/i]: to form a conception of : imagine <a badly conceived design>

3: to apprehend by reason or imagination : understand <unable to conceive his reasons>

4: to have as an opinion <I cannot conceive that he acted alone>

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

dreman9999 wrote...
The awnser to you question is that you interpreting all those thing and it easy to interpret. that covered in the second meaning of the word. You not flat out told...You see it.

You're confusing recognition with interpretation.. if you see a woman you do not interpret her as being a woman you recognize her as being a woman.

If the same woman leaves the door open you might interpret that action as being a invitation.

There is a significant difference.

You recognize the impulsive man - You interpret the meaning of the reaper larvae.

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The awnser to you question is that you interpreting all those thing and it easy to interpret. that covered in the second meaning of the word. You not flat out told...You see it.

You're confusing recognition with interpretation.. if you see a woman you do not interpret her as being a woman you recognize her as being a woman.

If the same woman leaves the door open you might interpret that action as being a invitation.

There is a significant difference.

You recognize the impulsive man - You interpret the meaning of the reaper larvae.

rec·og·ni·tion
http://dictionary.re...wse/recognition
1.
an act of recognizing or the state of being recognized.
2.
the identification of something as having been previously seen, heard, known, etc.
3.
the perception of something as existing or true; realization.
4.
the acknowledgment of something as valid or as entitled to consideration: the recognition of a claim.
5.
the acknowledgment of achievement, service, merit, etc.
....
With that the trick thing about recognition is that you have to understand what your seeing. To understand what your seeing you have to interprit it with what you know. You know what a woman is so you interperat a woman as a woman. But it's a two way street you can reconize some one as a woman and be wrong.(Transgender, crossdresser, asari.)

[Anacronian Stryx]

God Christ the word interpretation don't even show up in your own link and you still confuses the terms.. all i can say take some classes or something so you actually know anything you're talking about.

You interpret when you cant recognize or identify.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 07 septembre 2011 - 05:32 .

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

God Christ the word interpretation don't even show up in your own link and you still confuses the terms.. all i can say take some classes or something so you actually know anything you're talking about.

I'm not. I'm basing it on the meaning. The word is based on understanding, which is it's Synonym.(Recognize is is a synonym of understanding,too)
http://thesaurus.com...e/understanding





Main Entry:
understand

Part of Speech:
verb

Definition:
appreciate, comprehend

Synonyms:
accept, apprehend, be aware, be conscious of, be with it, catch, catch on, conceive, deduce, discern, distinguish, explain, fathom, figure out, find out, follow, get the hang of, get the idea, get the picture, get the point, get*, grasp, have knowledge of, identify with, infer, interpret, ken, know, learn, make out, make sense of, master, note, penetrate, perceive, possess, read, realize, recognize, register, savvy*, see, seize, sense, sympathize, take in*, take meaning, tolerate






Main Entry:
interpret  http://thesaurus.com/browse/interpret

Part of Speech:
verb

Definition:
make sense of; define

Synonyms:
adapt, annotate, clarify, comment, commentate, construe, decipher, decode, delineate, depict, describe, elucidate, enact, exemplify, explain, explicate, expound, gather, gloss, illustrate, image, improvise, limn, make of, mimic, paraphrase, perform, picture, play, portray, read, reenact, render, represent, solve, spell out, take*, throw light on, translate, understand, view

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2011 - 05:41 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

So you have no definition of what impulse is or a woman is?

So you actually have to make sense of everything you encounter no matter how many times you have encountered it before?

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 07 septembre 2011 - 05:48 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.
[/quote]

I never said they should join Shepard.  I totally get not joining Shepard.  But the hostile attitude?  Horizon demonstrated just how dire the situation was.  They trusted SHepard before on little more than visions.  Seeing bug-eyed aliens carry off half a colony wasn't enough?

[/quote]
They don't trust cerberus with good reason. You may not like it but they have apoint. You may not like it, and you did argue that your not a trator but in the end you and they know cerberuses history ...they can't be trusted. It a case of agreeing to dissagree .[/quote]

They don't trust Cerberus. They should trust Sheppard.

How far are you willing to go in defenes of bad Bio writing? Aparently to infinity (of senslessness) and beyond....

[Notlikeyoucare]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]They stole the ship because they new ultametly that not doing so would be their undoing.  It was a do or die event. Which cerberus, It was not that extreme. Joining cerberus to help shepard is not a do or die event.
[/quote]

I never said they should join Shepard.  I totally get not joining Shepard.  But the hostile attitude?  Horizon demonstrated just how dire the situation was.  They trusted SHepard before on little more than visions.  Seeing bug-eyed aliens carry off half a colony wasn't enough?

[/quote]
They don't trust cerberus with good reason. You may not like it but they have apoint. You may not like it, and you did argue that your not a trator but in the end you and they know cerberuses history ...they can't be trusted. It a case of agreeing to dissagree .[/quote]

They don't trust Cerberus. They should trust Sheppard.

How far are you willing to go in defenes of bad Bio writing? Aparently to infinity (of senslessness) and beyond....

[/quote]

To add to that. Tali and Garrus don't trust Cerberus either yet they both say "I am here for you" . The whole point being that the pre conceptions between two factions shouldn't be enough for the VS to lose sight of what the issue is.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are these trait's  Romoe has told to you or do you see these traits come up in the story? Which is my point , it's interpertied.....
As for mass effect, no character ask out of character....they may change because of event but they are not out of charcter. thE VS act the same way they did in ME1. Every character never act out of charcter. You just don't agree on the same thing. Even Liara is not out of character, her craziness is just showing more then usual.

http://www.youtube.c...8a8N0c4ao#t=88s

ME1, Kaidan is billed a rational and level headed individual, both he and Ash are willing to mutiny for Shepard. In ME2, they won't even give her the time of day simply because Cerberus is mentioned, and instead make ridiculous nonsensical statements. Meanwhile, Liara has not eaten in lord only knows how long and believes she is hallucinating, whereas in ME2, she is threatening to kill people. Yeah, those do not relate. They are retcons. Liara gets better because of a DLC.

Liara becomming hardened doesn't strike me as nearly so bizarre a change as the VS becomming an irrational twit. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

But you see, if we were discussing physics, I would respect the views of a physicist who had dedicated their life to studying that field, and I would believe they could lend credence on what theories/views were most accurate to the real objective state of things

 Seeing as literary standards are not real or objective, then those educated people have devoted their lives to justifying subjective standards as though they were real or objective

Who sez physics is objective? There's people who believe Earth is 6000 years old. Go and tell them they are wrong. Lets see you convince them of your "objectivity".

Writing standards exist for a reason. They arne't as hard as physical laws, but they aren't subjective - not really.
The enjoymet of a particial piece of fiction may be subjective, but thats another matter altogehter.

Subjectivism is the last refuge of the people who have no real arguments anymore.

 Last refuge of the people who have no real arguments anymore? Sounds like ad hominem to me

 The point with my physics remark is that there is a measure by which you can prove a physics theory wrong or right.. by whether it accurately describes the way the world really is. People may argue over whether certain theories (such as the age of the Earth) do accurately describe the way the world really is, but we can do experiments, examine data etc. to see if it is the case

 With writing standards, we have nothing like that. It is only us, not the universe, which decides what makes a good story. And an appeal to the authority of literary standards does not elevate one preference over another

And you claim that it's fully subjective is garbage. It's not. You only claim that because you disagree.

Why should I care about your measure? I renounce your physics. You will never, ever prove me wrong, because I denounce your proof. Everything you say and do is subjective. Every sound that comes out of your mouth is subjective. Every measurment you bring forth is a lie.

What youre basicly saying is that such thing as bad writing doesn't exist.
Which is the stupidest thing I ever heard.