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Smudboy's Mass Effect series analysis.


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#3351
Anacronian Stryx

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dreman9999 wrote...

syn·o·nym

http://dictionary.re.../browse/synonym

1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
2. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another
.....
Yes, it does mean it means the samething.Posted Image


You don't understand that while understanding can be synomous with Interpretation and reconisation dosen't mean that reconisation and Interpretation are synomous with each other.

The word "gun" can be synomous with both a big canon or a handgun, That dosent make the handgun and the big canon synomous with eacth other.

#3352
dreman9999

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Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

syn·o·nym

http://dictionary.re.../browse/synonym

1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
2. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another
.....
Yes, it does mean it means the samething.Posted Image


You don't understand that while understanding can be synomous with Interpretation and reconisation dosen't mean that reconisation and Interpretation are synomous with each other.

The word "gun" can be synomous with both a big canon or a handgun, That dosent make the handgun and the big canon synomous with eacth other.

And at the same it can mean the same thing. It the consept of interpretation. Part of the "close to the same meaning as".
When I say understand, it means the same thing as recognise and interpret. Being that they are abstract verbs they can have that type of revolving menaing as the samething. Nouns don't have that luxury. Gun, being a noun is decrptive by narture but in consept can only be one thing sinse it has something to ground it. Verb don't have a real ground or object to attach itself, only actions.
Understand is a verb so it has only actions to ground itself, like reconize and interpert which actions are abstract. Gun is a noun, it has somwthing to ground itself.

#3353
Killjoy Cutter

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Do I really see several pages of dueling definitions? Or did working 13 hours on inventory problems yesterday finally give me a stroke?

#3354
111987

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Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


The entire VS senario is BS. Ashley is loyal to Alliance for the sake of contrivance, its never explained how or why she feels this way considering she commited mutiny AGAINST the Alliance in ME 1, which proves DISloyalty, But that does not equate to her outright hatered of Cerberus, who were also retconned. Kaiden is the most level headed and logical guy I've seen in the ME universe. Besides, the catalyst for these changes weren't Cerberus anyway, you're making stuff up.


What about the whole business with General Williams and Shanxi? I wouldn't say Ashley being loyal to the Alliance is all that contrived. However, I am not refuting that the exchange on Horizon was ridiculous. Is irrational behavior an unexpected side effect of exposure to seeker bug toxin?


Really now, would you be loyal to a faction who crapped on two generations of your family and yourself because they surrendered? Maybe. But by extension, using that as her grounds to label Shepard a traitor is stupid considering she willingly comitted mutiny in ME 1. How would that earn their respect? It has been established she will go out of her way to do what is right in the face of her political alignment. This is why I say its contrived.

Ashley is....clear from the fact she still joined the alliance to try and make up for her families black mark.


.... Which is why she committed mutiny in Mass Effect 1.......


...To save the galaxy from a threat she 100% knew about...

#3355
Someone With Mass

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Do I really see several pages of dueling definitions? Or did working 13 hours on inventory problems yesterday finally give me a stroke?


I'd guess it's a bit of both.

#3356
Anacronian Stryx

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Do I really see several pages of dueling definitions? Or did working 13 hours on inventory problems yesterday finally give me a stroke?


No stroke somebody is actually debating that recognizing something and Interpret something is the same thing.

Yup welcome to hell.

#3357
Notlikeyoucare

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111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...


The entire VS senario is BS. Ashley is loyal to Alliance for the sake of contrivance, its never explained how or why she feels this way considering she commited mutiny AGAINST the Alliance in ME 1, which proves DISloyalty, But that does not equate to her outright hatered of Cerberus, who were also retconned. Kaiden is the most level headed and logical guy I've seen in the ME universe. Besides, the catalyst for these changes weren't Cerberus anyway, you're making stuff up.


What about the whole business with General Williams and Shanxi? I wouldn't say Ashley being loyal to the Alliance is all that contrived. However, I am not refuting that the exchange on Horizon was ridiculous. Is irrational behavior an unexpected side effect of exposure to seeker bug toxin?


Really now, would you be loyal to a faction who crapped on two generations of your family and yourself because they surrendered? Maybe. But by extension, using that as her grounds to label Shepard a traitor is stupid considering she willingly comitted mutiny in ME 1. How would that earn their respect? It has been established she will go out of her way to do what is right in the face of her political alignment. This is why I say its contrived.

Ashley is....clear from the fact she still joined the alliance to try and make up for her families black mark.


.... Which is why she committed mutiny in Mass Effect 1.......


...To save the galaxy from a threat she 100% knew about...


She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.

#3358
Veex

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Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


True, though I don't think its conclusive to the VS (or anyone outside of the ground team) that the collectors are in fact working for the Reapers.

#3359
111987

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Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


She didn't know the Reapers were working with the Collectors though.

Plus technically Shepard by working with Cerberus is a traitor.

And think if you were in her place. You fall deeply in love with a person, who is then killed. You mourn his loss for two years. Then out of the blue that person returns, but is now working with an organization you truly despise, especially after witnessing their sick experiments.

Yes her reasoning was flawed; obviously Cerberus wasn't working for the Collectors. But in a highly emotional scene like that, does reason really come into play?

#3360
AdmiralCheez

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It appears to have slowed down their production of one new Reaper.  A nice victory, big to the people who won't be kidnapped for it, not so big on the full scale of the Reaper invasion, from what we've been shown. 

I think the problem here is that the whole thing was given very little context.  The pieces are there, but it's left to the player to put them together.

See, apart from saving thousands of lives (a worthy effort), in the grand scheme of things the game never made it clear: Why the hell was stopping the Collectors so important, anyway?

The importance of the Collectors is that they can do things Reapers can't, like interacting with and studying organics up-close.  They're like the Reaper STG in a way, the way they gather, observe, and influence.  Their trades, technology for unique organic specimens, accomplish two things--they give Reaper tech to advanced civilizations along the lines their masters desire, and they are able to experiment on and select from different sapient species which ones are optimal for modification, control, and "ascension."

Now, consider what would happen if the Collectors had not been stopped:

1. Human abductions on fringe worlds would continue, forcing the Alliance's hand and drawing attention away from Earth.

2. Construction of the Human Reaper would continue, furthering the Reapers' goals of whatever-the-hell they plan on doing, speeding up the process of their shady agenda and bolstering their ranks.

3. The Omega Plague, which wipes out all sapient organic life apart from humans and the primitive vorcha, could be dropped on densely-populated alien worlds.  Since the Reapers, for some reason or another, have deemed these races unworthy, this is an acceptable loss.  Additionally, consider the difficulty of fighting a war when most of your population is either sick or dead.

4. The Collectors' resources, although comparatively limited, would be utilized in the invasion.  Their ship is fast, stealthy, and packs a helluva punch--perfect for hunting down specific targets.  The Seekers can immobilize entire settlements at a time, making them much easier to harvest.

In effect, taking out the Collectors was to the Reaper invasion as taking out the CIA would be to an American military offensive.  While replaceable and non-essential, the Collectors were still a helpful tool of the Reapers, depriving them of research, reconaissance, and a small but capable fighting force.  But as I said before, that was never made apparent in game, stripping the core plot of a lot of depth.

There is a delicate balance in storytelling; one can't spoonfeed the plot and all its details to the audience, but it's not smart to leave everything for them to figure out themselves.  When there's a mystery to be solved, you want to leave enough clues, guide the audience in the right direction just enough that they think they arrived at the right conclusion all by themselves.  ME2, to me at least, seemed to leave all sorts of clues, but failed to provide that little pinch of guidance.  In fact, there was little hint that there was a mystery to be solved at all thanks to TIM's "go here and do that," nor were the stakes ever raised to heighten tension.

Additionally, there was no "a ha!" moment, no dramtic revealing of the completed puzzle (well, there was, but it sort of flopped due to lack of foreshadowing) that either showed how smart or how horribly wrong you were.  However, because this is the second act in a trilogy, it's impossible to tell, at least at the moment, whether this is best left for part three or should have been included in part two.

See, this is what made Mass Effect (1) good from a storytelling standpoint: You have a goal (stop Saren), but you don't know how to accomplish it.  There are several mysteries to be solved, such as "What is the Conduit?", "Who are the Reapers?", and "What happened to the protheans?", that all eventually come together in the end.  As the situation becomes more apparent, the cost of failure rises and the urgency increases.  Saren goes from a human-hating madman to the puppet of a machine-god with an elaborate plot to wipe out all intelligent life in the galaxy.  The climax is a high-intensity battle that ends in a glorious victory, but doom is still on the horizon and several questions are left unanswered, wrapping up the story at hand while elegantly setting up for a sequel.

Granted, ME1 had all sorts of other flaws which I'll save for another thread, but this is a classical and almost foolproof setup for a heroic adventure.  Maybe it's because they'd just done it that the Bioware team decided to deviate from it so strongly.  Maybe they were willing to risk story integrity for the sake of trying something new, as to not do the same damn thing twice in a row.

(Wow, that was longer than expected.)

#3361
Anacronian Stryx

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Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.

#3362
111987

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Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...

#3363
dreman9999

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Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Do I really see several pages of dueling definitions? Or did working 13 hours on inventory problems yesterday finally give me a stroke?


No stroke somebody is actually debating that recognizing something and Interpret something is the same thing.

Yup welcome to hell.

Same meaning, actually .

#3364
Anacronian Stryx

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111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...


Well a lot of things would have to change but you get the overall idea.

#3365
dreman9999

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It appears to have slowed down their production of one new Reaper.  A nice victory, big to the people who won't be kidnapped for it, not so big on the full scale of the Reaper invasion, from what we've been shown. 

I think the problem here is that the whole thing was given very little context.  The pieces are there, but it's left to the player to put them together.

See, apart from saving thousands of lives (a worthy effort), in the grand scheme of things the game never made it clear: Why the hell was stopping the Collectors so important, anyway?

The importance of the Collectors is that they can do things Reapers can't, like interacting with and studying organics up-close.  They're like the Reaper STG in a way, the way they gather, observe, and influence.  Their trades, technology for unique organic specimens, accomplish two things--they give Reaper tech to advanced civilizations along the lines their masters desire, and they are able to experiment on and select from different sapient species which ones are optimal for modification, control, and "ascension."

Now, consider what would happen if the Collectors had not been stopped:

1. Human abductions on fringe worlds would continue, forcing the Alliance's hand and drawing attention away from Earth.

2. Construction of the Human Reaper would continue, furthering the Reapers' goals of whatever-the-hell they plan on doing, speeding up the process of their shady agenda and bolstering their ranks.

3. The Omega Plague, which wipes out all sapient organic life apart from humans and the primitive vorcha, could be dropped on densely-populated alien worlds.  Since the Reapers, for some reason or another, have deemed these races unworthy, this is an acceptable loss.  Additionally, consider the difficulty of fighting a war when most of your population is either sick or dead.

4. The Collectors' resources, although comparatively limited, would be utilized in the invasion.  Their ship is fast, stealthy, and packs a helluva punch--perfect for hunting down specific targets.  The Seekers can immobilize entire settlements at a time, making them much easier to harvest.

In effect, taking out the Collectors was to the Reaper invasion as taking out the CIA would be to an American military offensive.  While replaceable and non-essential, the Collectors were still a helpful tool of the Reapers, depriving them of research, reconaissance, and a small but capable fighting force.  But as I said before, that was never made apparent in game, stripping the core plot of a lot of depth.

There is a delicate balance in storytelling; one can't spoonfeed the plot and all its details to the audience, but it's not smart to leave everything for them to figure out themselves.  When there's a mystery to be solved, you want to leave enough clues, guide the audience in the right direction just enough that they think they arrived at the right conclusion all by themselves.  ME2, to me at least, seemed to leave all sorts of clues, but failed to provide that little pinch of guidance.  In fact, there was little hint that there was a mystery to be solved at all thanks to TIM's "go here and do that," nor were the stakes ever raised to heighten tension.

Additionally, there was no "a ha!" moment, no dramtic revealing of the completed puzzle (well, there was, but it sort of flopped due to lack of foreshadowing) that either showed how smart or how horribly wrong you were.  However, because this is the second act in a trilogy, it's impossible to tell, at least at the moment, whether this is best left for part three or should have been included in part two.

See, this is what made Mass Effect (1) good from a storytelling standpoint: You have a goal (stop Saren), but you don't know how to accomplish it.  There are several mysteries to be solved, such as "What is the Conduit?", "Who are the Reapers?", and "What happened to the protheans?", that all eventually come together in the end.  As the situation becomes more apparent, the cost of failure rises and the urgency increases.  Saren goes from a human-hating madman to the puppet of a machine-god with an elaborate plot to wipe out all intelligent life in the galaxy.  The climax is a high-intensity battle that ends in a glorious victory, but doom is still on the horizon and several questions are left unanswered, wrapping up the story at hand while elegantly setting up for a sequel.

Granted, ME1 had all sorts of other flaws which I'll save for another thread, but this is a classical and almost foolproof setup for a heroic adventure.  Maybe it's because they'd just done it that the Bioware team decided to deviate from it so strongly.  Maybe they were willing to risk story integrity for the sake of trying something new, as to not do the same damn thing twice in a row.

(Wow, that was longer than expected.)

The aha momment to was when you realize that how much you lost compare to the reapers to stop the collectors. You lost over a million people and the reapers lost 1 1/2 reapers.......And they have an armada filled with reapers still. Makes me feel really small.

#3366
dreman9999

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Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...


Well a lot of things would have to change but you get the overall idea.

Also,the collector base would have more than one way to get to the base making defence nill. Which was the point of the collector base in the center of the galexy.

#3367
Notlikeyoucare

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111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


She didn't know the Reapers were working with the Collectors though.

Plus technically Shepard by working with Cerberus is a traitor.

And
think if you were in her place. You fall deeply in love with a person,
who is then killed. You mourn his loss for two years. Then out of the
blue that person returns, but is now working with an organization you
truly despise, especially after witnessing their sick experiments.

Yes
her reasoning was flawed; obviously Cerberus wasn't working for the
Collectors. But in a highly emotional scene like that, does reason
really come into play?


1. And she didn't need to.
But she did in fact witness the Collector ship, and the abduction of
the colonists. She speculates that maybe the Collectors and Cerberus are
working together, but then she figures out that Shepard is working with
Cerberus, so why would they fight themselves? There is a line between emotional overreaction and absolute stupidity, and the VS took a huge leap over it.

2.
Yet Anderson and the Council (if you saved them) risk their careers
just in order to give you a chance to explain your actions and even
offer to reinsate your Spectre status. Anderson expresses his concern
yet offers to help you in anyway he can. Putting his trust in Shepard . But your fomrer lover won't even bother to at least ask for an explanation and outright accuse you of treachary?

3.
You'd also think that no matter how unsettling it would be to see such a
thing they would easily ask a how and why, giving you a chance to
explain. But no, everyone involved loses their ability to communicate
effectively because the plot demands they be idiots.

4. Yes, yes it does. No matter how emotional they are, these people are not morons, unless that is what the plot requires.

Also
remember in Mass Effect 1, Ashley had no proof of Shepards reasonings
to defy the council. All she had was Shepards word and that of the
sqaudmate that questions the probability of Sovereign being a VI. She
committed mutiny because she trusted Shepards word. Which makes this
scene even more intelligence insulting.

#3368
Anacronian Stryx

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dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...


Well a lot of things would have to change but you get the overall idea.

Also,the collector base would have more than one way to get to the base making defence nill. Which was the point of the collector base in the center of the galexy.


Have the omega 4 relay lead to the alpha relay and need a IFF to get though, it could still be near a black hole since there plenty of small ones scattered around the galaxy, The point is that you would feel like you had actually achieved something in the main game.

#3369
111987

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Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


She didn't know the Reapers were working with the Collectors though.

Plus technically Shepard by working with Cerberus is a traitor.

And
think if you were in her place. You fall deeply in love with a person,
who is then killed. You mourn his loss for two years. Then out of the
blue that person returns, but is now working with an organization you
truly despise, especially after witnessing their sick experiments.

Yes
her reasoning was flawed; obviously Cerberus wasn't working for the
Collectors. But in a highly emotional scene like that, does reason
really come into play?


1. And she didn't need to.
But she did in fact witness the Collector ship, and the abduction of
the colonists. She speculates that maybe the Collectors and Cerberus are
working together, but then she figures out that Shepard is working with
Cerberus, so why would they fight themselves? There is a line between emotional overreaction and absolute stupidity, and the VS took a huge leap over it.

2.
Yet Anderson and the Council (if you saved them) risk their careers
just in order to give you a chance to explain your actions and even
offer to reinsate your Spectre status. Anderson expresses his concern
yet offers to help you in anyway he can. Putting his trust in Shepard . But your fomrer lover won't even bother to at least ask for an explanation and outright accuse you of treachary?

3.
You'd also think that no matter how unsettling it would be to see such a
thing they would easily ask a how and why, giving you a chance to
explain. But no, everyone involved loses their ability to communicate
effectively because the plot demands they be idiots.

4. Yes, yes it does. No matter how emotional they are, these people are not morons, unless that is what the plot requires.

Also
remember in Mass Effect 1, Ashley had no proof of Shepards reasonings
to defy the council. All she had was Shepards word and that of the
sqaudmate that questions the probability of Sovereign being a VI. She
committed mutiny because she trusted Shepards word. Which makes this
scene even more intelligence insulting.


1. Like I said, of course the reasoning is flawed. Clearly you've never been in an emotional situation then if you think people never say irrational things when upset.

2. The VS does ask for an explanation; they just don't agree with it. The Council and Anderson are also clearly against the idea of Shepard working for Cerberus. They just weren't romantically involved and so they can see things from a more reasoned perspective.

3. The VS does ask for an explanation. Well, not directly, but Shepard gives them one anyways. They just don't accept the explanation because they can't see past Cerberus.

4. Once again, you've clearly never been in an emotional situation, or had a fight with a girl :lol: reason oftentimes plays no role.

#3370
dreman9999

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Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...


Well a lot of things would have to change but you get the overall idea.

Also,the collector base would have more than one way to get to the base making defence nill. Which was the point of the collector base in the center of the galexy.


Have the omega 4 relay lead to the alpha relay and need a IFF to get though, it could still be near a black hole since there plenty of small ones scattered around the galaxy, The point is that you would feel like you had actually achieved something in the main game.

But most og the point of the plot, needing cerberus, would be made point less. The alpha relay would be a back door for any one. Being at that the omega 4 relay lead to the center of the galaxy make for an inpenitrable defence.

#3371
Anacronian Stryx

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dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Now imagine that the Collector base where located near relay alpha instead and you used the base to smash into the relay effectively stopping the construction of the human larvae and the emergence of the reapers in the galaxy in one stroke.. that would have been something.


How could you possibly do that? I think the Collectors would notice if we starting building huge thrusters on their base...


Well a lot of things would have to change but you get the overall idea.

Also,the collector base would have more than one way to get to the base making defence nill. Which was the point of the collector base in the center of the galexy.


Have the omega 4 relay lead to the alpha relay and need a IFF to get though, it could still be near a black hole since there plenty of small ones scattered around the galaxy, The point is that you would feel like you had actually achieved something in the main game.

But most og the point of the plot, needing cerberus, would be made point less. The alpha relay would be a back door for any one. Being at that the omega 4 relay lead to the center of the galaxy make for an inpenitrable defence.


Obviously as i stated change the story so the only way to get to the alpha relay is by going though the omega relay needing the IFF.
And anyway as i said the story would have had to change a lot,perhaps even ditching Cerberus all together witch wouldn't be a big loss in my book.

#3372
Notlikeyoucare

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111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


She didn't know the Reapers were working with the Collectors though.

Plus technically Shepard by working with Cerberus is a traitor.

And
think if you were in her place. You fall deeply in love with a person,
who is then killed. You mourn his loss for two years. Then out of the
blue that person returns, but is now working with an organization you
truly despise, especially after witnessing their sick experiments.

Yes
her reasoning was flawed; obviously Cerberus wasn't working for the
Collectors. But in a highly emotional scene like that, does reason
really come into play?


1. And she didn't need to.
But she did in fact witness the Collector ship, and the abduction of
the colonists. She speculates that maybe the Collectors and Cerberus are
working together, but then she figures out that Shepard is working with
Cerberus, so why would they fight themselves? There is a line between emotional overreaction and absolute stupidity, and the VS took a huge leap over it.

2.
Yet Anderson and the Council (if you saved them) risk their careers
just in order to give you a chance to explain your actions and even
offer to reinsate your Spectre status. Anderson expresses his concern
yet offers to help you in anyway he can. Putting his trust in Shepard . But your fomrer lover won't even bother to at least ask for an explanation and outright accuse you of treachary?

3.
You'd also think that no matter how unsettling it would be to see such a
thing they would easily ask a how and why, giving you a chance to
explain. But no, everyone involved loses their ability to communicate
effectively because the plot demands they be idiots.

4. Yes, yes it does. No matter how emotional they are, these people are not morons, unless that is what the plot requires.

Also
remember in Mass Effect 1, Ashley had no proof of Shepards reasonings
to defy the council. All she had was Shepards word and that of the
sqaudmate that questions the probability of Sovereign being a VI. She
committed mutiny because she trusted Shepards word. Which makes this
scene even more intelligence insulting.


1. Like I said, of course the reasoning is flawed. Clearly you've never been in an emotional situation then if you think people never say irrational things when upset.

2. The VS does ask for an explanation; they just don't agree with it. The Council and Anderson are also clearly against the idea of Shepard working for Cerberus. They just weren't romantically involved and so they can see things from a more reasoned perspective.

3. The VS does ask for an explanation. Well, not directly, but Shepard gives them one anyways. They just don't accept the explanation because they can't see past Cerberus.

4. Once again, you've clearly never been in an emotional situation, or had a fight with a girl :lol: reason oftentimes plays no role.


1. Again, theres a difference between an emotional overreaction and a complete loss of the ability to think.
2. Yet if you don't romance her, she spews the same garbage so its a moot point. She only asks why you didn't contact her. At no point does she even question as to what your motives could possibly be for working with Cerberus. She just calls you a traitor and storms off in a fit forgetting her mission objective entirely.
3. No she doesn't and Shepards dialouge is left purposely stupid so that explanation remains weak and vauge.
4. See point 1. and point 2.

#3373
111987

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2. She doesn't ask, but Shepard explains anyways. The choices are "Cerberus isn't the enemy" and "I'm not working for Cerberus.

As to the other points, we clearly won't agree here, so what's the point? You think someone would be entirely logical in that emotional of a situation, I do not.

#3374
Notlikeyoucare

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111987 wrote...

2. She doesn't ask, but Shepard explains anyways. The choices are "Cerberus isn't the enemy" and "I'm not working for Cerberus.

As to the other points, we clearly won't agree here, so what's the point? You think someone would be entirely logical in that emotional of a situation, I do not.


Exactly, she doesn't ask, which is the problem. It never occurs to the VS to ask how and why. I don't expect them to be entirely logical, but I don't expect them to be entirely ILLOGICAL either, Her being emotional doesn't excuse the absolute stupidity vomitted from her mouth,

#3375
Killjoy Cutter

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111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

She also knew about the Collectors first hand and witnessed Shepard fight them off.


She didn't know the Reapers were working with the Collectors though.

Plus technically Shepard by working with Cerberus is a traitor.

And think if you were in her place. You fall deeply in love with a person, who is then killed. You mourn his loss for two years. Then out of the blue that person returns, but is now working with an organization you truly despise, especially after witnessing their sick experiments.

Yes her reasoning was flawed; obviously Cerberus wasn't working for the Collectors. But in a highly emotional scene like that, does reason really come into play?


Given the actual mandate of the Spectres, it always seemed silly to me that the Council calls Shep a "traitor" for working with Cerberus, and has no time to stop and listen to Shep explain what's going on.  It's almost comical how many times the Council has refused to give Shep much if any benefit of the doubt so far.