6494 réponses à ce sujet

[100k]

111987 wrote...

Just want to point out something from the Codex about armor.

"Armored hard-suits are sealable to protect the wearer from extremes of temperature and atmosphere."

"The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments."

These quotes show how Shepard's body could have survived planetary re-entry (assuming he did crash onto the planet) through his armor protecting him from the heat of re-entry (at least to an extent), and the medi-gel preserving enough of his body to be salvageable.

Ah, but you're forgetting two things:

Shepard's armor cracked open/shattered. Legion has the chest plate, Liara the back plate, Shepard the helmet. So the micro weave should've split as well.

With his remaining and uprotected flesh exposed to the elements of Alchera, Shepard should've still either boiled like an egg, or dried up into a raisin.

"By reinforcing the skeleton with a synthetic weave, bones can be made almost unbreakable. In the event of bone trauma, medi-gel conduits allow for bone regenerations in a matter of days."

Which he didn't get until after he was reconstructed.

[Master Wolf]

111987 wrote...

"The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments."

Congratulations you found another plot hole since I haven't saw Shepard suit being pluged xD

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It would also be a waste of their budget and production time if they had to, for example, create a whole new combat system just because Jacob's loyalty mission was technologically frozen in time. I really doubt that they would re-design everything for only one mission.

They would have just make guns work again like they did before and they never should have replaced the heat bar with an ammo counter.

Oh I agree with that completely. 

And what makes the new system so bad?

It took one of the interesting, charming elements of ME1 and dumped it in favor of the same-as-everyone-else ammo counter and random ammo pickups, without any interesting in-setting reason beyond "we're copying the geth". 

You don't have to agree with me, but that's my opinion of the thing. 

[Someone With Mass]

dreman9999 wrote...
And what makes the new system so bad?

It won't let you spray bullets everywhere and actually forces you to be mindful of your ammo reserves. Which is apparently bad.

[100k]

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kinetic barriers can stop anything that's solid, as long as they're activated. With the exception of heat, toxins and radiation.

With exception of Shepard walking through them when the plot demands it, you mean?

Someone With Mass wrote...

When exposed to something toxic, they tend to put on their helmets.

Or their breather mask, same with heat or radiation.

When has Shepard ever walk throu one?
Also, we never went to radiation posioned world in ME2. A hot world , Yes but we could stay in the shade to not get cooked.

We know that there are some kinds of phyisical shields that can stop slow moving objects, by example of Shepard waking up Legion and putting him in some form of stasis.

But c'mon guys...

>a fall from orbit = Shepard's body remaining intact (albeit with broken bones, etc).

>a fall out of a window while chasing Vasir = Shepard getting stunned

You gotta choose one.

He fell from space and die......
He fell from a ledge and was breifly stunned.......after the fact he was made into a super soldier cyborg.....

Not the point. The point is, it proves that kinetic barriers don't offer protection against falls (which constitute low velocity attacks-- like melee).

[sbvera13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And what makes the new system so bad?

It won't let you spray bullets everywhere and actually forces you to be mindful of your ammo reserves. Which is apparently bad.

quote from previously linked post of mine that I am shamelessly repeating because noone has intelligently responded to to argument yet:

How this relates to the ammo issue, is that as designed the ME2 ammo
system was also a limitation. In some cases harmless, in others (like
the infiltrator) debilitating. It punishes a playstyle that favors
tactical control, and rewards up close combat. It also leads to
scrounging behavior after every fight that breaks the combat pacing.
This is not the fault of ammo in general, since ammo systems have been
used with great success since the dawn of gaming. The failure is the
fault of the way ME2 executed it. Namely, universal pickups, lack of
effective backup weapons (for certain classes, or playstyles, ex.
infiltrator and long range), and an inadequate ammo reservoir.
Combined, these issues restrict gameplay as a whole, instead of
encouraging tactical choices and resource management. Limitations
should be used to direct and alter gameplay at key moments with an eye
for player choice, by directing them to use other tools as needed by the
encounter, not as a cudgel to impose "difficulty" that really just a
makes the game a pain in the neck.

Modifié par sbvera13, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:13 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Someone With Mass wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And what makes the new system so bad?

It won't let you spray bullets everywhere and actually forces you to be mindful of your ammo reserves. Which is apparently bad.

Not every game needs to have that element.  Or, you can establish parts of that element alone without needing to graft on something odd for the setting.

The ME1 heat system could have been tweaked. 

[111987]

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

Just want to point out something from the Codex about armor.

"Armored hard-suits are sealable to protect the wearer from extremes of temperature and atmosphere."

"The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments."

These quotes show how Shepard's body could have survived planetary re-entry (assuming he did crash onto the planet) through his armor protecting him from the heat of re-entry (at least to an extent), and the medi-gel preserving enough of his body to be salvageable.

Ah, but you're forgetting two things:

Shepard's armor cracked open/shattered. Legion has the chest plate, Liara the back plate, Shepard the helmet. So the micro weave should've split as well.

With his remaining and uprotected flesh exposed to the elements of Alchera, Shepard should've still either boiled like an egg, or dried up into a raisin.

"By reinforcing the skeleton with a synthetic weave, bones can be made almost unbreakable. In the event of bone trauma, medi-gel conduits allow for bone regenerations in a matter of days."

Which he didn't get until after he was reconstructed.

For the bone thing, I was actually just pointing out that the technology for bone reconstruction exists

As for Shepard's armor, I'm not sure about that one. How was the body depicted in Mass Effect: Redemption? Was the armor intact there, or already broken? If it was intact in the comic, then it could have been the heat of rentry fused the armor and the flesh together, so the armor had to be cut off. But you raise a valid point.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And what makes the new system so bad?

Shameless plug: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/7966374/3#8206901

Explotion correction....
Now thing about that with the widow.

[sbvera13]

The ammo system as designed didn't encourage resource management anyway, since there's effectively only 1 resource there's no management.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And what makes the new system so bad?

It won't let you spray bullets everywhere and actually forces you to be mindful of your ammo reserves. Which is apparently bad.

Not every game needs to have that element.  Or, you can establish parts of that element alone without needing to graft on something odd for the setting.

The ME1 heat system could have been tweaked. 

Right...tweeked.

[Killjoy Cutter]

sbvera13 wrote...
quote from previously linked post of mine that I am shamelessly repeating because noone has intelligently responded to to argument yet:

How this relates to the ammo issue, is that as designed the ME2 ammo
system was also a limitation. In some cases harmless, in others (like
the infiltrator) debilitating. It punishes a playstyle that favors
tactical control, and rewards up close combat. It also leads to
scrounging behavior after every fight that breaks the combat pacing.
This is not the fault of ammo in general, since ammo systems have been
used with great success since the dawn of gaming. The failure is the
fault of the way ME2 executed it. Namely, universal pickups, lack of
effective backup weapons (for certain classes, or playstyles, ex.
infiltrator and long range), and an inadequate ammo reservoir.
Combined, these issues restrict gameplay as a whole, instead of
encouraging tactical choices and resource management. Limitations
should be used to direct and alter gameplay at key moments with an eye
for player choice, by directing them to use other tools as needed by the
encounter, not as a cudgel to impose "difficulty" that really just a
makes the game a pain in the neck.

Well said.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Funny how most of us here can have this discussion and disagree so completely about certain things, without calling each other names or chalking up the disagreement to each other's personal faults...

[Iakus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

iakus wrote...

It helped that Jensen wasn't dead for two years when the augments were put in...

It took them two years to bring Shepard back. They presumably started to work on his body a short while after his death, and that work took two years.

All right.  It helped that Jensen wasn't dead for weeks when the augments were put in.

I believe Redemption takes place a month or so after the Normandy's destruction.

Point is, while Jensen's augs were life-saving, they did not reverse death.

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...

Now thing about that with the widow.

And I gurauntee that pistol had horrbile DPS.  Any decent RPG player would know that DPS requires time on target to be applied- and unless you are a computer with perfect accuracy you won't have 100% time on target, so having 100% heat efficiency is a loss.  That makes unheatable weapons one of the worst ways to play, and I promise you won't be clearing enemies quickly on hardcore or insanity with that peashooter.  Don't blame the designer for the player being stupid.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

The ammo system as designed didn't encourage resource management anyway, since there's effectively only 1 resource there's no management.

So making sure you don't run out of bullets by aim correctly and not waste shots is it not resourse Management?

[Someone With Mass]

sbvera13 wrote...

quote from previously linked post of mine that I am shamelessly repeating because noone has intelligently responded to to argument yet:

How this relates to the ammo issue, is that as designed the ME2 ammo
system was also a limitation. In some cases harmless, in others (like
the infiltrator) debilitating. It punishes a playstyle that favors
tactical control, and rewards up close combat. It also leads to
scrounging behavior after every fight that breaks the combat pacing.
This is not the fault of ammo in general, since ammo systems have been
used with great success since the dawn of gaming. The failure is the
fault of the way ME2 executed it. Namely, universal pickups, lack of
effective backup weapons (for certain classes, or playstyles, ex.
infiltrator and long range), and an inadequate ammo reservoir.
Combined, these issues restrict gameplay as a whole, instead of
encouraging tactical choices and resource management. Limitations
should be used to direct and alter gameplay at key moments with an eye
for player choice, by directing them to use other tools as needed by the
encounter, not as a cudgel to impose "difficulty" that really just a
makes the game a pain in the neck.

Most classes, like the Infiltrator, have powers for that specific reason. You have also at all times access to the SMG and the pistol, which had plenty of ammo.

The only time I've really run out of ammo was on the Object Rho level in the Arrival DLC, and that was because I was forced into a corner. I have constantly picked up ammo on every other level. While I do agree that ammo should be dropped/given more often, it hasn't been so scarce that it's a problem for a long time.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Now thing about that with the widow.

And I gurauntee that pistol had horrbile DPS.  Any decent RPG player would know that DPS requires time on target to be applied- and unless you are a computer with perfect accuracy you won't have 100% time on target, so having 100% heat efficiency is a loss.  That makes unheatable weapons one of the worst ways to play, and I promise you won't be clearing enemies quickly on hardcore or insanity with that peashooter.  Don't blame the designer for the player being stupid.

But what if it was a shoot gun instead. Shoot guns have fantasic dps. Also, ME hand guns have monstorus dps.

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...

So making sure you don't run out of bullets by aim correctly and not waste shots is it not resourse Management?

No. That's just accuracy.  Resource management is choosing which resource to use at which time, to best achieve your goals.

[Someone With Mass]

iakus wrote...

All right.  It helped that Jensen wasn't dead for weeks when the augments were put in.

I believe Redemption takes place a month or so after the Normandy's destruction.

Point is, while Jensen's augs were life-saving, they did not reverse death.

Yes, but there still no need to learn what every specific part does.

[sbvera13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Most classes, like the Infiltrator, have powers for that specific reason. You have also at all times access to the SMG and the pistol, which had plenty of ammo.

Go back to the original thread, linked on page 146, where I address both of those issues. In short, both of the things you describe limit player choice and flatten gameplay.

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Funny how most of us here can have this discussion and disagree so completely about certain things, without calling each other names or chalking up the disagreement to each other's personal faults...

Indeed.

 If someone mocks you, don't retaliate, and take pride in the fact that you're more mature than they are.

[100k]

111987 wrote...For the bone thing, I was actually just pointing out that the technology for bone reconstruction exists

Oh, of course. 

As for Shepard's armor, I'm not sure about that one. How was the body depicted in Mass Effect: Redemption? Was the armor intact there, or already broken? If it was intact in the comic, then it could have been the heat of rentry fused the armor and the flesh together, so the armor had to be cut off. But you raise a valid point.

I dunno if the comic is to be considered 100% canon. I wouldn't be surprised if it showed Shepard with a N7 chest place, helmet, and shoulder pieces.

[Someone With Mass]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not every game needs to have that element.  Or, you can establish parts of that element alone without needing to graft on something odd for the setting.

The ME1 heat system could have been tweaked. 

They did tweak it, and they simply didn't like it.