6494 réponses à ce sujet

[sbvera13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I actually found it boring that I could drop anything with little to no resistance with the exception of Colossus and one-hit-kill weapons in ME1 even on Insanity if I had the right setup.

Such as? In my experience, there was no such thing as one hit kill weapons on insanity. (except for certain situations, like explosive rounds in low gravity that knock them into space).

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

The ammo system as designed didn't encourage resource management anyway, since there's effectively only 1 resource there's no management.

So making sure you don't run out of bullets by aim correctly and not waste shots is it not resourse Management?

You aim to hit the target.  You hit the target to kill it.  You kill the target to survive and win. 

I don't need same-old-ammo-system to make me not want to waste 90% of my shots on spraying and praying. 

But with the old system you can take the strongest gun and the weakest bullet and take out gods...on insanity. If you missed in ME1 you never tried tobe more careful unless you had powerful ammo thatover heat you guns but you can do the same damage with weaker amm, so ithad no real point.

Is that how you played ME1? 

Interesting. 

I took the most effective ammo and managed the heat buildup by firing carefully, occasionally switching weapons, and always having somewhere to duck for a moment if I needed to. 

Not really. I used power full ammo just not to pwerful that it over heats.  But the thing is that it can happen make the game flawed. What if the claymore, widow, or reverent had a system like ME1....It would destroy the game. Having something like that in ME2 would limit ed amount of damage guns would do.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

The ammo system as designed didn't encourage resource management anyway, since there's effectively only 1 resource there's no management.

So making sure you don't run out of bullets by aim correctly and not waste shots is it not resourse Management?

You aim to hit the target.  You hit the target to kill it.  You kill the target to survive and win. 

I don't need same-old-ammo-system to make me not want to waste 90% of my shots on spraying and praying. 

But with the old system you can take the strongest gun and the weakest bullet and take out gods...on insanity. If you missed in ME1 you never tried tobe more careful unless you had powerful ammo thatover heat you guns but you can do the same damage with weaker amm, so ithad no real point.

Is that how you played ME1? 

Interesting. 

I took the most effective ammo and managed the heat buildup by firing carefully, occasionally switching weapons, and always having somewhere to duck for a moment if I needed to. 

Not really. I used power full ammo just not to pwerful that it over heats.  But the thing is that it can happen make the game flawed. What if the claymore, widow, or reverent had a system like ME1....It would destroy the game. Having something like that in ME2 would limit ed amount of damage guns would do.

I get terrible results from the Revenant anyway.

The Widow and Claymore are limited by the slow rate of fire.  Nothing about rate of fire necessitates an ammo-based system. 

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...
 But the thing is that it can happen make the game flawed. What if the claymore, widow, or reverent had a system like ME1....It would destroy the game. Having something like that in ME2 would limit ed amount of damage guns would do.

Never said that the game wasn't flawed.  However, we did say that the ME2 ammo system was worse.  The flaw in ME1 was in the amount of damage enemies did to you, not in the overheat system.  The clumsy ammo implementation of ME2 was a ham-fisted, blunt force way of making you find the best tactic, because you only had 10 frikken shots.  Not cool and lazy game design, imo.  Not fun to play either.

Modifié par sbvera13, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:47 .

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I actually found it boring that I could drop anything with little to no resistance with the exception of Colossus and one-hit-kill weapons in ME1 even on Insanity if I had the right setup.

Such as? In my experience, there was no such thing as one hit kill weapons on insanity. (except for certain situations, like explosive rounds in low gravity that knock them into space).

Immunity, overkill......Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot........Repeat....

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...

Immunity, overkill......Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot........Repeat....

So you chose the boring way, instead of looking for squad combos and tactical options.  That's what I thought.

Once again, don't blame the game design for your own choices.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
 But the thing is that it can happen make the game flawed. What if the claymore, widow, or reverent had a system like ME1....It would destroy the game. Having something like that in ME2 would limit ed amount of damage guns would do.

Never said that the game wasn't flawed.  However, we did say that the ME2 ammo system was worse.  The flaw in ME1 was in the amount of damage enemies did to you, not in the overheat system.  The clumsy ammo implementation of ME2 was a ham-fisted, blunt force way of making you find the best tactic, because you only had 10 frikken shots.  Not cool and lazy game design, imo.  Not fun to play either.

But who is it worse? It's harder hitting, more accurate and not over powered. It's non- explotive, more flexible, and more challenging.
That does not spell out worse at all.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Immunity, overkill......Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot...Shot........Repeat....

So you chose the boring way, instead of looking for squad combos and tactical options.  That's what I thought.

Once again, don't blame the game design for your own choices.

What squad combo can you use on a threasher maw? All you can do is throw warp at it to weaken it defence and shot. Point is the old system is off balanced.

[Someone With Mass]

sbvera13 wrote...
Such as? In my experience, there was no such thing as one hit kill weapons on insanity. (except for certain situations, like explosive rounds in low gravity that knock them into space).

By one-hit-kill weapons, I meant enemy snipers and rocket troopers/drones.

It was even worse when the enemies deployed a power like Sabotage or, in worst case, Immunity (ALL OF MY HATE) which prolonged the battles in a very tedious way.

Either enemies were easy to literally blow away or they were bullet sponges with shield and health regnerations that took them back to full strength within seconds.

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...
But who is it worse? It's harder hitting, more accurate and not over powered. It's non- explotive, more flexible, and more challenging.
That does not spell out worse at all.

It is not more flexible.  It is more limiting.  Sitting at long range and controlling the encounter is no longer a possible gameplay choice, because you will run out of ammo.  Flanking and taking out soft targets from a superior position is also not a possible choice, because you will run out of ammo.  You have only 2 choices: hope the encounter is short enough that you don't run out, or get in close and pick up ammo drops.  That is a LOSS of flexibility, mate.

Also, it's not more accurate, since with skill investment and a little finesse with your controll device of choice the ME1 sniper was 100% accurate as well.  Harder hitting is relative to the gameplay pacing, which changed dramatically between the two games, so we can't directly compare the two systems on that front.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

The ammo system as designed didn't encourage resource management anyway, since there's effectively only 1 resource there's no management.

So making sure you don't run out of bullets by aim correctly and not waste shots is it not resourse Management?

You aim to hit the target.  You hit the target to kill it.  You kill the target to survive and win. 

I don't need same-old-ammo-system to make me not want to waste 90% of my shots on spraying and praying. 

But with the old system you can take the strongest gun and the weakest bullet and take out gods...on insanity. If you missed in ME1 you never tried tobe more careful unless you had powerful ammo thatover heat you guns but you can do the same damage with weaker amm, so ithad no real point.

Is that how you played ME1? 

Interesting. 

I took the most effective ammo and managed the heat buildup by firing carefully, occasionally switching weapons, and always having somewhere to duck for a moment if I needed to. 

Not really. I used power full ammo just not to pwerful that it over heats.  But the thing is that it can happen make the game flawed. What if the claymore, widow, or reverent had a system like ME1....It would destroy the game. Having something like that in ME2 would limit ed amount of damage guns would do.

I get terrible results from the Revenant anyway.

The Widow and Claymore are limited by the slow rate of fire.  Nothing about rate of fire necessitates an ammo-based system. 

Sniper rilfle in Mass effect 1 have slow rate of fire ,too. Fire rate is irrelivent to shot guns, as it the one hit kills and hard hitting attack that make the gun deadly. The cllaymores's balancer is the fact it has to reload each time after firing. The reverent is a monstor upclose and mid range, you have to shot it in burst. Holding down the fire buttom makes it less accurate.

[sbvera13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

By one-hit-kill weapons, I meant enemy snipers and rocket troopers/drones.

It was even worse when the enemies deployed a power like Sabotage or, in worst case, Immunity (ALL OF MY HATE) which prolonged the battles in a very tedious way.

Either enemies were easy to literally blow away or they were bullet sponges with shield and health regnerations that took them back to full strength within seconds.

Ah, my mistake.  For enemy rockets, use sabotage on them before you start your attack, or prioritize them for a biotic takedown.  For snipers, watch for the red beam that cues that they are charging up their assanation power and use cover at the right time.  For immunity, wait until it falls of your target (or just before, if you can judge the timing well enough) and hit them with damping so they can't put it back up, then burn em down while they are unprotected.  For health regen, use sledgehammer rounds, or give your squad polonium rounds, or use radioactive grenades to suppress that regen long enough to burn em down.

edit: and ME2 doesn't have that many options, because defenses block all powers.  That's why I say ME1 is the better system.

See? All the tools to do it are there.  Don't blame the game because you didn't use them.

Modifié par sbvera13, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:02 .

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But who is it worse? It's harder hitting, more accurate and not over powered. It's non- explotive, more flexible, and more challenging.
That does not spell out worse at all.

It is not more flexible.  It is more limiting.  Sitting at long range and controlling the encounter is no longer a possible gameplay choice, because you will run out of ammo.  Flanking and taking out soft targets from a superior position is also not a possible choice, because you will run out of ammo.  You have only 2 choices: hope the encounter is short enough that you don't run out, or get in close and pick up ammo drops.  That is a LOSS of flexibility, mate.

Also, it's not more accurate, since with skill investment and a little finesse with your controll device of choice the ME1 sniper was 100% accurate as well.  Harder hitting is relative to the gameplay pacing, which changed dramatically between the two games, so we can't directly compare the two systems on that front.

The fact that you could just sit for ever and wittle down enemies in ME1 made it limiting. That's my point with the statement that you make your guns in ME1  never over heat. And you forgeting that breif, desoriation you have with the sniper rifle when you first aim with it... The new one are way more accurate.

[Merchant2006]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Someone needs to euthanize Smudbody.

Is it bad that I roared with laughter at this? To this day I've heard "smudboy this, smudboy that." What's so remotely interesting about this mudchild thing that everyone refers to? His over analysis of snoca that captures everyones sight? I'm guessing so.

I've seen this name appear every single goddamn time and yet, I really... *sigh*, I'm literally trolling myself here when I re-read what I've typed. I'll continue what I always do and ignore these threads. Like a goddamn AIDS fart.

[Someone With Mass]

sbvera13 wrote...

See? All the tools to do it are there.  Don't blame the game because you didn't use them.

I can use them. I just don't see the point to why they're there beyond making my weapons feel weak and making fights take way more time than they should have.

[sbvera13]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...


[/quote]The fact that you could just sit for ever and wittle down enemies in ME1 made it limiting. That's my point with the statement that you make your guns in ME1  never over heat. And you forgeting that breif, desoriation you have with the sniper rifle when you first aim with it... The new one are way more accurate.
[/quote]

Crouch, skill up, and pre-aim. Instant, perfect shot. You obviously never learned how to do it.  Once again, don't blame the game for your own failure.

And how is giving you additional options limiting (even, I grant, when the option is bad one, its still an option)? Should I link to a dictionary? Limiting means to take away options, which ME2 did very much.  You said it yourself, you COULD sit fore ever etc.... you didn't HAVE to.  In ME2, you HAVE to get close enough to pick up ammo.  You HAVE to take down defenses before your poweres work.  You HAVE to aim for the head or run out of ammo all the time.  You HAVE to spam your powers instead of saving them for that moment you need it or you run out of ammo.  These are what limitations look like.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

By one-hit-kill weapons, I meant enemy snipers and rocket troopers/drones.

It was even worse when the enemies deployed a power like Sabotage or, in worst case, Immunity (ALL OF MY HATE) which prolonged the battles in a very tedious way.

Either enemies were easy to literally blow away or they were bullet sponges with shield and health regnerations that took them back to full strength within seconds.

Ah, my mistake.  For enemy rockets, use sabotage on them before you start your attack, or prioritize them for a biotic takedown.  For snipers, watch for the red beam that cues that they are charging up their assanation power and use cover at the right time.  For immunity, wait until it falls of your target (or just before, if you can judge the timing well enough) and hit them with damping so they can't put it back up, then burn em down while they are unprotected.  For health regen, use sledgehammer rounds, or give your squad polonium rounds, or use radioactive grenades to suppress that regen long enough to burn em down.

edit: and ME2 doesn't have that many options, because defenses block all powers.  That's why I say ME1 is the better system.

See? All the tools to do it are there.  Don't blame the game because you didn't use them.

You can stun people with power, use overload to take out shields, lay traps with singularity, warp bombs, driods to destract enemies, concusstion grenades to over heat weapon with protection on, freeze people wit hammo powers, overheat guns with disturptur ammo, and your gun have a natural debuff for protrction without any ammo powers.
The system is much more flexible.
In me1 you could not kill with biotics unless a ledge was nearby, Tech powers did not kill ether. You lifted them up or  turn off their guns and shot them to death. Not very flexible.

[sbvera13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I can use them. I just don't see the point to why they're there beyond making my weapons feel weak and making fights take way more time than they should have.

The game had some balance issues, I admitted several times.  Since the enemies hit like like a drunk toddler, there's no incentive to learn how to do a quick takedown.  However, the tools to dp these takedowns are there, they are effective, and the skill curve in learning how to use them is long and rewarding.  That's more then ME2 can boast, with it's bullet-sponge put-defenses-on-everything-that-you-have-to-shoot-off business.

[dreman9999]

[quote]sbvera13 wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...


[/quote]The fact that you could just sit for ever and wittle down enemies in ME1 made it limiting. That's my point with the statement that you make your guns in ME1  never over heat. And you forgeting that breif, desoriation you have with the sniper rifle when you first aim with it... The new one are way more accurate.
[/quote]

Crouch, skill up, and pre-aim. Instant, perfect shot. You obviously never learned how to do it.  Once again, don't blame the game for your own failure.

And how is giving you additional options limiting (even, I grant, when the option is bad one, its still an option)? Should I link to a dictionary? Limiting means to take away options, which ME2 did very much.  You said it yourself, you COULD sit fore ever etc.... you didn't HAVE to.  In ME2, you HAVE to get close enough to pick up ammo.  You HAVE to take down defenses before your poweres work.  You HAVE to aim for the head or run out of ammo all the time.  You HAVE to spam your powers instead of saving them for that moment you need it or you run out of ammo.  These are what limitations look like.

[/quote]......
It's not the fact that you have limited options. Is that you can use one option to overpower the game. Why tryany other option when one is the best out of all of them.

Modifié par dreman9999, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:12 .

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...
]You can stun people with power, use overload to take out shields, lay traps with singularity, warp bombs, driods to destract enemies, concusstion grenades to over heat weapon with protection on, freeze people wit hammo powers, overheat guns with disturptur ammo, and your gun have a natural debuff for protrction without any ammo powers.
The system is much more flexible.
In me1 you could not kill with biotics unless a ledge was nearby, Tech powers did not kill ether. You lifted them up or  turn off their guns and shot them to death. Not very flexible.

Pretty much none of which worked with defenses up, so, limitations.  And on insanity where very single enemy has defenses, you have one option: shoot them in the face.  That's not flexibility.

And yes, yes you could do a biotic takedown anywhere without a ceiling.  Tech powers DID kill, but you had to spec your character properly to get decent damage out of them.  (meaningful character customization? lolwut?) Lift, then throw from underneath. Look! It's a bird! It's a... well, they don't come back. Biotic takedown.

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's not the fact that you have limited options. Is that you can use one option to overpower the game. Why tryany other option when one is the best out of all of them.

Except that spamming a weak, non-overheating gun for hours on end is NOT the best option. It doesn't overpower the game, it makes it boring.   That's been my whole point.  It's a boring as all get-out option.  That YOU chose to use.  I've described roughly a dozen other options so far, that work better and are more fun.  Kind of defeats the "one option to overpower the game" bit.

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
]You can stun people with power, use overload to take out shields, lay traps with singularity, warp bombs, driods to destract enemies, concusstion grenades to over heat weapon with protection on, freeze people wit hammo powers, overheat guns with disturptur ammo, and your gun have a natural debuff for protrction without any ammo powers.
The system is much more flexible.
In me1 you could not kill with biotics unless a ledge was nearby, Tech powers did not kill ether. You lifted them up or  turn off their guns and shot them to death. Not very flexible.

Pretty much none of which worked with defenses up, so, limitations.  And on insanity where very single enemy has defenses, you have one option: shoot them in the face.  That's not flexibility.

And yes, yes you could do a biotic takedown anywhere without a ceiling.  Tech powers DID kill, but you had to spec your character properly to get decent damage out of them.  (meaningful character customization? lolwut?) Lift, then throw from underneath. Look! It's a bird! It's a... well, they don't come back. Biotic takedown.

You didn't read.. warp bombs take out group regardless of protection unless they have strong defence. Overload takes out shield which help get thecombo going. Guns  have natural debuff to certin types of protection.
FLASH BANG GRENADES overheat weapon and stun target reguardless of protection. Singulrity holds enemies regargler of protection out side of ymir mecks....All powers can stun enemies. Insinerary blast panics  enemies even with protection.
You have more choices in ME2 then ME1.
Tech powers did damage but not heavily. So it really did not kill unless the target was very low on health. Aso, that biotic combo you state dose not work in hardcore and insanity settings of ME1.

Modifié par dreman9999, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:27 .

[dreman9999]

sbvera13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's not the fact that you have limited options. Is that you can use one option to overpower the game. Why tryany other option when one is the best out of all of them.

Except that spamming a weak, non-overheating gun for hours on end is NOT the best option. It doesn't overpower the game, it makes it boring.   That's been my whole point.  It's a boring as all get-out option.  That YOU chose to use.  I've described roughly a dozen other options so far, that work better and are more fun.  Kind of defeats the "one option to overpower the game" bit.

Just like it borinf to sit and shoot from afar.

[Arkitekt]

100k wrote...

Now the entire argument has disolved into "I don't like him because...he has an annoying voice...he thinks he's right...his arguments have cracks that I won't point out..."

Seriously you guys, that's not any basis for you to hate him -- and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The topic is "Smudboy's Mass Effect series analysis". If I am speaking about, amongst other things, its tone, how the hell am I being off topic? What the hell are you banging about?

And all this nonsense about hatred. What are you smoking? I don't hate the guy, I don't even know him.

[sbvera13]

dreman9999 wrote...

You didn't read.. warp bombs take out group regardless of protection unless they have strong defence. Overload takes out shield which help get thecombo going. Guns  have natural debuff to certin types of protection.
FLASH BANG GRENADES overheat weapon and stun target reguardless of protection. Singulrity holds enemies regargler of protection out side of ymir mecks....All powers can stun enemies. Insinerary blast panics  enemies even with protection.
You have more choices in ME2 then ME1.

We're talking insanity here, when every single mook in ME2 has defenses.  So the options you list are really not very significant.  Warp bomb isn't an option because you can't apply a biotic effect to something with defenses up, and if you can or use it on someone with their own barrier (you mentioned this yourself) doesn't even hurt that much because everyone has strong defenses.

Overload only works well against shields, using it blocks your other powers, and doesn't have the extra utility that it had in ME1 anymore.  Thats actually a reduced number of options.

Flash bang grenades I never tried so I won't comment.  I didn't want to pay for DLC just to get extra powers when the game proper was so terrible.  But you may be right so I won't complain about this one.

I think you mean Stasis, not singularity.  And you can't shoot them while they are held, and again it's a DLC power (one that BW added after all the complaints about defenses blocking everything, which actually does more to prove my point then counter it.)

All powers stunning enemies... that's not a guarunteed stun, it blocks all other powers when you do it cause of the global cooldown (use one, lose 4. this is more options?), and it's a very, very short stun.  To me that looks like fewer options then ME1 had.