6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

No, it's stating that there's simply nothing special about the material itself, when so little of a person is made of "genetic material" by weight or volume, and it's the information that makes it special, not the chemicals. 

Never mind that the Reaper "embryo" is clearly not made out of the things you could get out of "gooing" thousands of human bodies. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

100k wrote...
Incorrect. Death is death. Nobody knows what it entails, holds, or consists of. It isn't just the termination of biological functions. But you've missed the point. Shepard doesn't need to pray to god to rationalize death. Shepard doesn't need to see prothean angels. Shepard doesn't need to spend the entire game wondering what caused his demise. Shepard just needs to have an opinion on such an key element of the story.

You know why? Because Shepard is fighting the Reapers so that those on his side have a chance to not die. If death isn't such a big deal, then he shouldn't really care about the Reapers, but he does. And it's not just his own death that's at stake -- but a possible LI, and a squad of teammates, some of whom are friends. 

To belittle the importance of death in the plot is to undermine how dangerous the Reapers actually are. 

I just don't see it, sorry. 

It looks like you're projecting your own opinion of what death means onto what the story of ME2 needs or doesn't need. 

Shep passes out while drifting away from the shattered Normandy, and wakes up on Lazarus station.  With both the immediate mech attack / escape, and then the Collectors the impending Reaper crisis to deal with.  Given the way most media deals with something like a near-death experience when they get into it, I'm relieved that Shep just gets on with things. 

And theirs a reason why they did it that way. We don't know what happen after death, this is a hard science fiction story, and they don't want to lagle the reapers as evil, just as the bad guys.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The "melting" of humans into some kind of goo, that is somehow used to make the reaper, is the letdown there.  It's just a body-horror moment that's completely unnecessary to the story or the game.

So you say. It worked on me very well. I see these kinds of bashings all the time, and I'm not sure that people understand how subjective they are. Ok, you didn't like it. I did.

As I suggested earlier in the thread, the victims could be scanned for their neurological and genetic makeup in a way that is painful and lethal, and visceral.  Perhaps probes being pushed into them, intense radiological scanning, bleeding from the eyes and ears and nose, convulsing, death... and then turned into husks.  The Reapers are after the genetical and mental makeup of a species, that's how they could it get it.  Turning them into goo and then somehow using that goo to physically make the new reaper requires a leap that flies in the face of some pretty basic science without any real necessity. 

"pretty basic science"? What the hell are you banging about? What laws of physics are being broken? Yes, all that would have been fine, but that wasn't what we got. And what we got is different. Not bad, just different. People don't like it because they are unable to link "goo" with something intelligent being made to humans.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Never mind that the Reaper "embryo" is clearly not made out of the things you could get out of "gooing" thousands of human bodies. 

It is a mix of organic and non-organic material. This was said.

[The Interloper]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

Refusing to suspend disbelief is very popular here.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

No, it's stating that there's simply nothing special about the material itself, when so little of a person is made of "genetic material" by weight or volume, and it's the information that makes it special, not the chemicals. 

Never mind that the Reaper "embryo" is clearly not made out of the things you could get out of "gooing" thousands of human bodies. 

Organic-cybernetic fustion...

[Arkitekt]

The Interloper wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

Refusing to suspend disbelief is very popular here.

And quite a stunning thing to do with a sci fi story.

[Xeranx]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

Genetic materialDefinition[/b]noun[/i]The genetic material of a cell or an organism refers to those materials found in the nucleus, mitochondria and cytoplasm, which play a fundamental role in determining the structure and nature of cell substances, and capable of self-propagating and variation.
Supplement[/b]The genetic material of a cell can be a gene, a part of a gene, a group of genes, a DNA molecule, a fragment of DNA, a group of DNA molecules, or the entire genome of an organism.

We know that we don't need an actual arm to try to trace our lineage back a few years.  So in light of that what exactly does the construction of a Reaper, utilizing several whole persons, have to do with utilizing genetic material?  I'm not well versed in biology or genetics, but from what I am able to look up and what I remember the idea that Reapers need our DNA to form doesn't add up.

[DCarter]

The human reaper to me just feels way out of place. I'll agree with several others that the biggest problem with it, is the way it looks. The image of this giant space terminator sitting inside a reaper is just bizzare to me. What the **** is it doing in their? Does it have it's own giant cockpit where it flies the ship? It just doesn't make any sense. It's completely impractical and that seems to fly in the face of the cold and calculating machine intelligence that the reapers are supposed to be.

From a story telling point of view i quite like the concept of the reapers being made from defeated organic species. It adds a new dimension and explains the cycle of destruction. However the look of the human reaper is something biowares got horribly wrong. Hey-ho they'll probably just ignore it in ME3 and continue making **** up as they go along.

[Arkitekt]

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Never mind that the Reaper "embryo" is clearly not made out of the things you could get out of "gooing" thousands of human bodies. 

It is a mix of organic and non-organic material. This was said.

It might be what's said, but it's not what's shown.  What we see is a robust, mechanical, and largely metallic, construct.  Leaving it at what EDI said is insufficient. 

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It might be what's said, but it's not what's shown.  What we see is a robust, mechanical, and largely metallic, construct.  Leaving it at what EDI said is insufficient. 

When you see my face you don't see any clues that I have these white things called "bones" nor that gello thing called "brain".

Will people stop being so limited in their imagination already?

[dreman9999]

Xeranx wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

This topic suffers heavily from how much we don't yet understand the Collectors technology. You have no cause to say that the idea that the Human Reaper would use human genetic material is ridiculous when you have no idea what the tech involves

It is like saying Blade Runner is a bad film because you state that no machine could believe it was human

Genetic materialDefinition[/b]noun[/i]The genetic material of a cell or an organism refers to those materials found in the nucleus, mitochondria and cytoplasm, which play a fundamental role in determining the structure and nature of cell substances, and capable of self-propagating and variation.
Supplement[/b]The genetic material of a cell can be a gene, a part of a gene, a group of genes, a DNA molecule, a fragment of DNA, a group of DNA molecules, or the entire genome of an organism.

We know that we don't need an actual arm to try to trace our lineage back a few years.  So in light of that what exactly does the construction of a Reaper, utilizing several whole persons, have to do with utilizing genetic material?  I'm not well versed in biology or genetics, but from what I am able to look up and what I remember the idea that Reapers need our DNA to form doesn't add up.

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Never mind that the Reaper "embryo" is clearly not made out of the things you could get out of "gooing" thousands of human bodies. 

It is a mix of organic and non-organic material. This was said.

It might be what's said, but it's not what's shown.  What we see is a robust, mechanical, and largely metallic, construct.  Leaving it at what EDI said is insufficient. 

....They were still trying to finish it. It was no were near done.
But I like BW other consept.
http://t1.gstatic.co...nGRjlj_dn0lKS7Q

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The "melting" of humans into some kind of goo, that is somehow used to make the reaper, is the letdown there.  It's just a body-horror moment that's completely unnecessary to the story or the game.

So you say. It worked on me very well. I see these kinds of bashings all the time, and I'm not sure that people understand how subjective they are. Ok, you didn't like it. I did.

As I suggested earlier in the thread, the victims could be scanned for their neurological and genetic makeup in a way that is painful and lethal, and visceral.  Perhaps probes being pushed into them, intense radiological scanning, bleeding from the eyes and ears and nose, convulsing, death... and then turned into husks.  The Reapers are after the genetical and mental makeup of a species, that's how they could it get it.  Turning them into goo and then somehow using that goo to physically make the new reaper requires a leap that flies in the face of some pretty basic science without any real necessity. 

"pretty basic science"? What the hell are you banging about? What laws of physics are being broken? Yes, all that would have been fine, but that wasn't what we got. And what we got is different. Not bad, just different. People don't like it because they are unable to link "goo" with something intelligent being made to humans.

It's not subjective, it's just knowing when an author (or team) didn't do some very basic homework on the scientific terminology they're borrowing.   There's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture "their essence" or build a giant metalic construct, any more than you can fly to the moon by lighting farts.  It's a concept that falls on its face without a lot more explanation and nuance than we were given. 

I simply gave my example to show how they could have avoided that kind of stumble of ME2 so very easily, same as with the "death by very high fall / Shepburger" issue. 


However, unlike others who are critical of ME2 for moments like these, I'm not going to speculate on why the goo and human reaper worked for you, I have no idea. 

[dreman9999]

DCarter wrote...

The human reaper to me just feels way out of place. I'll agree with several others that the biggest problem with it, is the way it looks. The image of this giant space terminator sitting inside a reaper is just bizzare to me. What the **** is it doing in their? Does it have it's own giant cockpit where it flies the ship? It just doesn't make any sense. It's completely impractical and that seems to fly in the face of the cold and calculating machine intelligence that the reapers are supposed to be.

From a story telling point of view i quite like the concept of the reapers being made from defeated organic species. It adds a new dimension and explains the cycle of destruction. However the look of the human reaper is something biowares got horribly wrong. Hey-ho they'll probably just ignore it in ME3 and continue making **** up as they go along.

The design feels out of place not the reaper it self. It way too reconisable to other thing in other stories and games we seen.

It was a terminator and a  boss of contra 3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYhVwPXk6OM&feature=player_detailpage#t=221s

Clearly, the lastboss fight was rushed. They had other ideas to use.

http://t1.gstatic.co...nGRjlj_dn0lKS7Q

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The "melting" of humans into some kind of goo, that is somehow used to make the reaper, is the letdown there.  It's just a body-horror moment that's completely unnecessary to the story or the game.

So you say. It worked on me very well. I see these kinds of bashings all the time, and I'm not sure that people understand how subjective they are. Ok, you didn't like it. I did.

As I suggested earlier in the thread, the victims could be scanned for their neurological and genetic makeup in a way that is painful and lethal, and visceral.  Perhaps probes being pushed into them, intense radiological scanning, bleeding from the eyes and ears and nose, convulsing, death... and then turned into husks.  The Reapers are after the genetical and mental makeup of a species, that's how they could it get it.  Turning them into goo and then somehow using that goo to physically make the new reaper requires a leap that flies in the face of some pretty basic science without any real necessity. 

"pretty basic science"? What the hell are you banging about? What laws of physics are being broken? Yes, all that would have been fine, but that wasn't what we got. And what we got is different. Not bad, just different. People don't like it because they are unable to link "goo" with something intelligent being made to humans.

It's not subjective, it's just knowing when an author (or team) didn't do some very basic homework on the scientific terminology they're borrowing.   There's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture "their essence" or build a giant metalic construct, any more than you can fly to the moon by lighting farts.  It's a concept that falls on its face without a lot more explanation and nuance than we were given. 

I simply gave my example to show how they could have avoided that kind of stumble of ME2 so very easily, same as with the "death by very high fall / Shepburger" issue. 


However, unlike others who are critical of ME2 for moments like these, I'm not going to speculate on why the goo and human reaper worked for you, I have no idea. 

It's a hard science fiction game, with as technical as ME has been, if they say essence of a speices it only means one thing.....The thing that detail the make up of a speices...Genes. Clearly they were not trying to be philisophical.

[100k]

Arkitekt wrote...
This is not true, specially the last bit "every concievable angle". I've read and seen so many stories that simply disregard death to be a vulgar event to render this statement just untrue. And the ones less sensible to it are sci fi ones. Go figure.

1) There is nothing "untrue" about my statement. Music, art, film, photography, literature, poetry, etc etc ALL have works that deal with death. Every. Last. One.

2) Now, make no mistake-- I'm not saying that every last book on Earth deals with death. But I am saying is that all of these genres have millions of works within them that deal with death. That constitutes "every conceivable angle". 

3) I'd love to hear some of these titles that you talk about that "disgregard" death, though. Oh-- I have no doubt that you won't give them to me, but I'd still like to know about them :-/

Unrelated things. From Shepard's point of view he was asleep and then he "got better". That's all he experienced. "Death" is not experienced. You still don't understand this basic point and so try to make a mountain out of nothing at all. The meaning of "death" is that you stop experiencing stuff. And you don't want that happening to your friends and all your comrades in the galaxy, specially in such a traumatic manner.

WRONG. Shepard uses the "I got better" line as a slight joke. He's attempting to create humor out of a situation. But we don't even have to look to Shepard to get this. Liara obsessed over Shepard's death (and Feron's abduction). The VS was angry and emotional by Shepard's appearance. So was Tali. They aknowledge that death means something. Should the protagonist do the same?

*know's you'll say "no"*

No. It's unrelated. People die all the time, the problem about the Reapers isn't about "Death" per se.

How is Shepard being killed by the Reapers (and revived) in ME2 un related to the Reapers being giant killing machines? Can you explain that one?

This is irrelevant from his own POV. He choked in one moment, he awoke in the next.

Not true. Shepard "awakens" to find that galaxy a different place. Those he loves are distant with him. Those he trusts are off on their own missions. Those he looks up to can't help him. You expect him to remain stoic about that? Oh -- I know that your Shepard will remain detached from that, but can you apply that to everyone's?

You are entitled to doubt anything. These things happen however and require more than a "little doubt" from anyone's part that they don't.

Show me one person who was revived after a fall from orbit, after their spacesuit was punctured by an explosion. Bring it on.

The feat wasn't his. It was Cerberus feat. He didn't "conquer" death, he was revived.

I said "the first enemy that shall be destroyed is death", as a reference to "The Last Enemy that Shall be Destroyed is Death". "Destroyed" in this context does not mean that the hero "conquers" death by skill, technology, or other means.

Way to miss the point.

No, you don't have a point. 

You've been saying:

- As an RPG, the game needs to relate to all players -- but you haven't recognized that Shepard can be religious in ME1. You can't apply your Shepard's traits to every one else's Shepards.

- That death doesn't matter if the protagonist thinks he fell asleep -- but haven't recognized the vast emotional issues that other characters face in the world -- OR the fact that a religious Shepard should have some views on the matter of death and revival -- OR the  fact that Shepard was willing to risk death to save Joker -- OR that Shepard tried to stop death from occuring by attempting to clog his ruptured suit as he floated through space.

- The death isn't always that big of a deal in media where it is presented -- but have failed to show examples of where this takes place. Can you give me one example where the main character dies, and then hand waves his/her death? 

- That stuff happens off camera -- but this contradicts any argument that Shepard = the player, because it means that Shepard has a life of his own that nobody knows about. Obviously not every thing needs to be shown on camera-- like Shepard on the toilet -- but shouldn't something like a conversation about what it means to die be ON camera? 

*No! It's not that important...*

And yet what is important is Shepard talking to his other squadmates about their lives? Hmmmm...

Modifié par 100k, 09 septembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It might be what's said, but it's not what's shown.  What we see is a robust, mechanical, and largely metallic, construct.  Leaving it at what EDI said is insufficient. 

When you see my face you don't see any clues that I have these white things called "bones" nor that gello thing called "brain".

Will people stop being so limited in their imagination already?

Someone else posted a picture of the reaper "embryo" just now, take a look... there's nothing hidden there. 

Here's what's in DNA.  What we see can't be made from that and retain anything useful in terms of information or "essence". 

It's not a matter of imagination, it's just that it's a problem when a work of science fiction asks me to pretend I don't know what I know. 

Or, as my sig used to say...

"It is one thing to suspend your disbelief.
It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead."

And knowing what I know about chemistry, neurology, physics, biology, etc, the "goo, essence, reaper" thing would require me to hang my disbelief by the neck until dead.

[111987]

Xeranx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
You were steamrolling here and I was nodding in slight approval until you ended up doing a mistake. The problem with the human reaper isn't its "exposition" or the lack of  "explanation" for it. It was well presented and explained, I can't for the life of me understand this criticism at all. What it really made me go WTF is the arnold image of it, which just made my brain go in unrelated and irrelevant directions and really distracted me from the story. Had it a completely different and original "shape" it would have been better. Perhaps that's what you meant.

What! How exactly?

Why is this thing here?  What's it trying to? How is this all going to work? Liquid Humans? these are all obvious questions raised within the narative that were never anwserd worse, not even adressed, lack the narative didn't want to know anything about this.

The entire concept of  having a giant space terminator triclops use by the Giant evil eldar machine god is utterly baffling to, especially when it doesn't get any kind of exposition or  a purpose within the story,  there wasn't even some for shadowing on it, it just there. it absolutly has no meaning withing the story except for reducing the reapers even further down to cartoonbook villians with their convoluted plans.

So how the heck do you come to the conclusion of it being presented right.

Why is it here? Reaper reproduction

EDI's suppositiion/hypothesis. 

EDI: "They may be facilitating the Reaper equivalent of reproduction. Or it may serve another purpose. I do not have the data to speculate further."

How is this going to work? Millions of humans will be melted down to contribute their genetic material (probably DNA) to the Reaper core.

There's a large metal framework that exists and there's no exterior example of what the human goo is needed for.  Shepard can ask what they want with our DNA.  I don't know how Shepard knows that they're after out for human genetic material, and it is outrightly absurd at this point to think that it's DNA that they want since we know that there's no need for a culling that large especially if all you need is DNA.  

Almost all of us had some exposure to biology before we hit college.  DNA is in the cells, it's in the blood, it's in saliva, etc.  Considering the work we're doing with stem cells, currently, it makes the idea that millions of humans are needed even more absurd.  The Collectors have the perfect way to harvest DNA if that's what is sought after just with the seeker swarms (alone) being able to freeze their targets in their tracks.  If the goal is gathering cells from their targets in order to supply Reapers with some kind of conduction for Reaper synapses or electrical function (provided they aren't just destroying the cells with the melting process) that would be fine.  And it would completely negate the idea that DNA is needed.  That fact that you're guessing DNA ( more than likely because it was mentioned, but doesn't compute compute anyway given my earlier statement) means that you don't know what the reasoning is.  So how can it go from 'probably' to 'resonably explained'?

More to the point EDI says: "The exact construction methods are unclear, but it seems probable that the Reapers absorb the essence of a species; utilizing it in their reproduction process."  

EDI hypothesises reproduction, moves on to determining it is reproduction, and then moves on to saying that it's probable that the essence of a species is used to create a Reaper.  

May I ask you what is the essence of a species?

Why does it look like a human? Because all Reaper cores are based on what species 'made' them. They are then put in similar looking squid shells.

More supposition on EDI's part.  EDI: "It appears that a Reaper's shape is based on the species used to create it."

Bold presents a hypothesis which is in conflict with your statement implying a definitive.

Until we know what the Reaper's ultimate purpose is, you shouldn't judge. Using organics to reproduce could be paramount to their motivations.

That goes for both sides, but one is stating that there's clear evidence and the other is asking what evidence (if any) exists to explain it.

Yes yes, it's all EDI's speculation. However it's the only in-game explanation we've been given, so we have to go off what EDI was able to gather from her analysis and data. Not to mention developer interviews have confirmed all of EDI's speculation anyways.

This is just a case of someone nitpicking because they don't like the concept. EDI's speculation is clearly intended to be taken as fact in the context of the game.

[Xeranx]

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The "melting" of humans into some kind of goo, that is somehow used to make the reaper, is the letdown there.  It's just a body-horror moment that's completely unnecessary to the story or the game.

So you say. It worked on me very well. I see these kinds of bashings all the time, and I'm not sure that people understand how subjective they are. Ok, you didn't like it. I did.

As I suggested earlier in the thread, the victims could be scanned for their neurological and genetic makeup in a way that is painful and lethal, and visceral.  Perhaps probes being pushed into them, intense radiological scanning, bleeding from the eyes and ears and nose, convulsing, death... and then turned into husks.  The Reapers are after the genetical and mental makeup of a species, that's how they could it get it.  Turning them into goo and then somehow using that goo to physically make the new reaper requires a leap that flies in the face of some pretty basic science without any real necessity. 

"pretty basic science"? What the hell are you banging about? What laws of physics are being broken? Yes, all that would have been fine, but that wasn't what we got. And what we got is different. Not bad, just different. People don't like it because they are unable to link "goo" with something intelligent being made to humans.

It's not subjective, it's just knowing when an author (or team) didn't do some very basic homework on the scientific terminology they're borrowing.   There's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture "their essence" or build a giant metalic construct, any more than you can fly to the moon by lighting farts.  It's a concept that falls on its face without a lot more explanation and nuance than we were given. 

I simply gave my example to show how they could have avoided that kind of stumble of ME2 so very easily, same as with the "death by very high fall / Shepburger" issue. 


However, unlike others who are critical of ME2 for moments like these, I'm not going to speculate on why the goo and human reaper worked for you, I have no idea. 

It's a hard science fiction game, with as technical as ME has been, if they say essence of a speices it only means one thing.....The thing that detail the make up of a speices...Genes. Clearly they were not trying to be philisophical.

OK, just to be clear, even if you reduce it to "genes", there's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture the "essence" of the human species. 

And given what Legion tells us, and what the Reapers we've spoken with tell us, it's very unlikely that they're just after "genes".

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It might be what's said, but it's not what's shown.  What we see is a robust, mechanical, and largely metallic, construct.  Leaving it at what EDI said is insufficient. 

When you see my face you don't see any clues that I have these white things called "bones" nor that gello thing called "brain".

Will people stop being so limited in their imagination already?

Someone else posted a picture of the reaper "embryo" just now, take a look... there's nothing hidden there. 

Here's what's in DNA.  What we see can't be made from that and retain anything useful in terms of information or "essence". 

It's not a matter of imagination, it's just that it's a problem when a work of science fiction asks me to pretend I don't know what I know. 

Or, as my sig used to say...

"It is one thing to suspend your disbelief.
It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead."

And knowing what I know about chemistry, neurology, physics, biology, etc, the "goo, essence, reaper" thing would require me to hang my disbelief by the neck until dead.

There's no confirmation of what an essence of a species is. Until we find out, there's nothing really here to discuss. Maybe they need as much unique human DNA as possible, which is why they can't just clone it. We don't know. So yes you can criticize it as much as you want and there's nothing really people who are defending it can say against you at this point in time.

When ME3 comes out, it might be a different story though. Which is why I am willing to reserve judgement. If you are not, all the power to you.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's not subjective, it's just knowing when an author (or team) didn't do some very basic homework on the scientific terminology they're borrowing.   There's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture "their essence" or build a giant metalic construct, any more than you can fly to the moon by lighting farts.  It's a concept that falls on its face without a lot more explanation and nuance than we were given.

It's a concept not to be taken literally. The biggest irony in this very bad comment of yours is that flying to the moon was done in a fashion not unsimilar to "lighting farts" if you took that as a metaphorical analogy. You are still trying to read EDI's statement as a mathematical phrase that depicts what was going on in the most precise manner, IOW you are not reading what is being said in the same language that it was said.

I simply gave my example to show how they could have avoided that kind of stumble of ME2 so very easily, same as with the "death by very high fall / Shepburger" issue.  

The stumble is all yours.

However, unlike others who are critical of ME2 for moments like these, I'm not going to speculate on why the goo and human reaper worked for you, I have no idea. 

It worked because it was original and it handwaved exactly where it should: in an uncomprehensible technology. Any technology sufficiently superior will seem counter-intuitive or just like magic to people who are unaware by it. This is why I hate technobabble in Voyager or any other shows who pretend they can "magically" understand what is going on so quickly in the universe. I much prefer "Red  Matter" which is a way for the writers to say to the audience "look, we aren't gonna bull**** you on this one, we have no idea on how this could be made to happen, so we will make a black box out of it and call it red matter coz rule of cool".

[Xeranx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.