6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's not subjective, it's just knowing when an author (or team) didn't do some very basic homework on the scientific terminology they're borrowing.   There's nothing special you get out of gooing humans that lets you capture "their essence" or build a giant metalic construct, any more than you can fly to the moon by lighting farts.  It's a concept that falls on its face without a lot more explanation and nuance than we were given.

It's a concept not to be taken literally. The biggest irony in this very bad comment of yours is that flying to the moon was done in a fashion not unsimilar to "lighting farts" if you took that as a metaphorical analogy. You are still trying to read EDI's statement as a mathematical phrase that depicts what was going on in the most precise manner, IOW you are not reading what is being said in the same language that it was said.

I simply gave my example to show how they could have avoided that kind of stumble of ME2 so very easily, same as with the "death by very high fall / Shepburger" issue.  

The stumble is all yours.

However, unlike others who are critical of ME2 for moments like these, I'm not going to speculate on why the goo and human reaper worked for you, I have no idea. 

It worked because it was original and it handwaved exactly where it should: in an uncomprehensible technology. Any technology sufficiently superior will seem counter-intuitive or just like magic to people who are unaware by it. This is why I hate technobabble in Voyager or any other shows who pretend they can "magically" understand what is going on so quickly in the universe. I much prefer "Red  Matter" which is a way for the writers to say to the audience "look, we aren't gonna bull**** you on this one, we have no idea on how this could be made to happen, so we will make a black box out of it and call it red matter coz rule of cool".

It didn't handwave, it attempted to explain and came up achingly short.  Same with the Star Trek rehash's "Red Matter" babble -- but then, Star Trek seemed to love to babble greatly, and it wore down my ability to watch the shows over time. 

Don't give me this nonsense about technology that looks like magic, however.  They weren't off in Clarkland, they were using terminology that means something, and misusing it badly. 

That said, there's no need for things like the "the stumble is all yours" comment, you're drifting off into Smudboy territory with that. 

[Xeranx]

111987 wrote...

Yes yes, it's all EDI's speculation. However it's the only in-game explanation we've been given, so we have to go off what EDI was able to gather from her analysis and data. Not to mention developer interviews have confirmed all of EDI's speculation anyways.

This is just a case of someone nitpicking because they don't like the concept. EDI's speculation is clearly intended to be taken as fact in the context of the game.

I didn't know that the developers confirmed her speculations.  Doesn't make it any better as far as I'm concerned.

[100k]

The only thing the devs have confirmed about the baby Reaper is that it is a "core" to the larger vessels. I would guess that some of the more crab like Reapers in ME3 are also cores.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

[Xeranx]

100k wrote...

The only thing the devs have confirmed about the baby Reaper is that it is a "core" to the larger vessels. I would guess that some of the more crab like Reapers in ME3 are also cores.

That's what I came across.  I didn't see anything regarding EDI's speculations actually being on the mark.  If I did I wouldn't have said anything about EDI's speculations.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

Biotics......Diffent loctions of humanity, and the fact we still have a large diversity. The basics don't change over 200 years but other detailsof genetics do. Being able to resiste sickness, or adept to new envirnments, rate of though and comprehension, and other things. The thingson the serface and major part of any speices don't change easily over time but the smaller detials, and their alot of small deteils. And no, that "project" would only have the basics of human genes, not in mass.

[111987]

Xeranx wrote...

100k wrote...

The only thing the devs have confirmed about the baby Reaper is that it is a "core" to the larger vessels. I would guess that some of the more crab like Reapers in ME3 are also cores.

That's what I came across.  I didn't see anything regarding EDI's speculations actually being on the mark.  If I did I wouldn't have said anything about EDI's speculations.

Well they confirmed the Reaper shape based on the species used to create it, and that it is implanted into a squid like shell afterwards. So that confirms that the Reapers use other species to reproduce.

[100k]

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Not to mention that Mordin is wrong -- humans are not genetically diverse. We may have different peaks and vallies, but we're still very much alike.

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

But who says it's just genetics that are involved here? For example, think of the virtual aliens, who transfer their consciousness onto their ship. That sounds eerily similar to a Reaper, which emits both organic and non-organic energy signatures.

Until we get a definition of 'essence of a species', we just don't know what it means. EDI probably doesn't even know what it means and just used a generic term to try and explain it.

[dreman9999]

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Your also forgeting the fact they want to make us into a reaper. Not just take are gnetic details.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

But who says it's just genetics that are involved here? For example, think of the virtual aliens, who transfer their consciousness onto their ship. That sounds eerily similar to a Reaper, which emits both organic and non-organic energy signatures.

Until we get a definition of 'essence of a species', we just don't know what it means. EDI probably doesn't even know what it means and just used a generic term to try and explain it.

It you you want to get essence out of genetic goo of a speice, their only one thing you'll get out of it.

[Arkitekt]

[quote]100k wrote...

1) There is nothing "untrue" about my statement. Music, art, film, photography, literature, poetry, etc etc ALL have works that deal with death. Every. Last. One.[/quote]

You implied that all these works of art share this trait of not vulgarizing death. This is not true. Period. End of conversation.

[quote]2) Now, make no mistake-- I'm not saying that every last book on Earth deals with death. But I am saying is that all of these genres have millions of works within them that deal with death. That constitutes "every conceivable angle". [/quote]

Every conceivable angle must surely include banalization of death. And I see no problems with that too.

[quote]3) I'd love to hear some of these titles that you talk about that "disgregard" death, though. Oh-- I have no doubt that you won't give them to me, but I'd still like to know about them :-/  [/quote]

Works of art disregard death all the time, when they kill one or two characters (for instance) and little development of that is made. I see no problem whatsoever in disregarding Shepard's "bad shape" and you think it's such a big problem .... because other works treat death differently... well I'm sorry but ME isn't "those works" you have in your high esteem.

[quote]WRONG. Shepard uses the "I got better" line as a slight joke. He's attempting to create humor out of a situation. But we don't even have to look to Shepard to get this. Liara obsessed over Shepard's death (and Feron's abduction). The VS was angry and emotional by Shepard's appearance. So was Tali. They aknowledge that death means something. Should the protagonist do the same?

*know's you'll say "no"* [/quote]

There are two replies to this. One you already guessed. The other is to say that the reactions you need are mirrored in these characters, and rightfully so. Shepard went to sleep and when woke up 2 years passed. Meaningless to him/her. Not to his friends who cried over him/her for 2 years thinking of him dead or almost so.

And doh, I was also joking in that line. I mean come on.

[quote]How is Shepard being killed by the Reapers (and revived) in ME2 un related to the Reapers being giant killing machines? Can you explain that one?[/quote]

Shepard being killed by the reapers is to be expected. It's a war. Shepard is killing reaper's minions. I fail to see the surprise of this moment. What I meant there was that his death is unrelated to the "meaning" of the coming of the Reapers. His death is obviously related with the reapers' actions.

[quote]Not true. Shepard "awakens" to find that galaxy a different place. Those he loves are distant with him. Those he trusts are off on their own missions. Those he looks up to can't help him. You expect him to remain stoic about that? Oh -- I know that your Shepard will remain detached from that, but can you apply that to everyone's?[/quote]

He doesn't. He gets very annoyed in Horizon, he hugs Wrex, he tries to bring Liara back to some kind of relationship, he gets happy when recognizing Garrus. OTOH, he needs to get his act together. He's the ****ing captain that will make a very dangerous mission against the reapers. He has no chance to get mushy with his own crewmates (he only gets this chance with Liara at the end of LotSB because Liara isn't a part of the crew).

[quote]Show me one person who was revived after a fall from orbit, after their spacesuit was punctured by an explosion. Bring it on.[/quote]

Show me one person who wasn't in those circumstances. Ridiculous arguments work both ways you know?

[quote]I said "the first enemy that shall be destroyed is death", as a reference to "The Last Enemy that Shall be Destroyed is Death". "Destroyed" in this context does not mean that the hero "conquers" death by skill, technology, or other means.[/quote]

Ok.


[quote]- As an RPG, the game needs to relate to all players -- but you haven't recognized that Shepard can be religious in ME1. You can't apply your Shepard's traits to every one else's Shepards.[/quote]

And you can't make games that apply to everyone's metaphysical sentiments in due time. I knew this was a religious argument, thanks for confirming it.

[quote]- That death doesn't matter if the protagonist thinks he fell asleep -- but haven't recognized the vast emotional issues that other characters face in the world -- OR the fact that a religious Shepard should have some views on the matter of death and revival -- OR the  fact that Shepard was willing to risk death to save Joker -- OR that Shepard tried to stop death from occuring by attempting to clog his ruptured suit as he floated through space.[/quote]

I disagreed with this above. Shepard risking his life for Joker's life is what every captain should do: be the last man on a ship. Shepard's asfixiation process was painful, and yes, "realistically" he would have had some psychological trials and conversations before being given the OK GO FIGHT THEM, but that wouldn't have made a good game, but one that would have started boringly.

I already agreed with this sentiment, that it would probably be better to see Shepard (after agreeing with TIM, say), having some conversation with the good doctor Chakwas, say, about his her experiences. But it wouldn't be such a big thing, and by the time you have the conversation with TIM, no player is "worried" about shepard at all, he wants the ball rolling.

[quote]- The death isn't always that big of a deal in media where it is presented -- but have failed to show examples of where this takes place. Can you give me one example where the main character dies, and then hand waves his/her death? [/quote]

Captain America.

[quote]- That stuff happens off camera -- but this contradicts any argument that Shepard = the player, because it means that Shepard has a life of his own that nobody knows about. Obviously not every thing needs to be shown on camera-- like Shepard on the toilet -- but shouldn't something like a conversation about what it means to die be ON camera? [/quote]

"Shouldn't"? No. "Couldn't"? Yes. This distinction is important. In the end, many things are cullled out of any product, even a game. If you aren't able to cull sufficient things, you will not be able to finish the game. 

[quote]And yet what is important is Shepard talking to his other squadmates about their lives? Hmmmm...


[/quote]

What happens to Shepard is seen by the player. Shepard has no "personality" because it is a "role played game", and yet the writers want deep written characters in game. And so they did. And to know them you have to talk about them. It's also sound in the sense that the captain of the ship is entitled to know better his crew, and is also entitled to not bring his own life to the crew, to maintain authority and distance. Could have it been different? Sure. No one is claiming that ME2 is perfect. To cry it out as a "flaw"? Seems unnecessary.

[dreman9999]

100k wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Not to mention that Mordin is wrong -- humans are not genetically diverse. We may have different peaks and vallies, but we're still very much alike.

On the serface we are not that deverse, but with the ways are body handle new environments, dieases and changes is different from person to person. The major things stay the same in humans, the small thing change.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...
Biotics......Diffent loctions of humanity, and the fact we still have a large diversity. The basics don't change over 200 years but other detailsof genetics do. Being able to resiste sickness, or adept to new envirnments, rate of though and comprehension, and other things. The thingson the serface and major part of any speices don't change easily over time but the smaller detials, and their alot of small deteils. And no, that "project" would only have the basics of human genes, not in mass.

Nothing we see in the ME setting would do anything meaningful to the human genome in the ~175 years between now and then, and that leaves plenty of time to get a sample of just about every variation of every human gene.  

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 09 septembre 2011 - 05:44 .

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

For one, with the way gene mods work, that's clearly done. And two, that still won't have ever diverity of genes of a race, just the basics. You can get the basic genetic details out of any person. They want every veriaty of Genes, and with the expantion og humanity via colonies the genetic deversity expanded.

Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

But who says it's just genetics that are involved here? For example, think of the virtual aliens, who transfer their consciousness onto their ship. That sounds eerily similar to a Reaper, which emits both organic and non-organic energy signatures.

Until we get a definition of 'essence of a species', we just don't know what it means. EDI probably doesn't even know what it means and just used a generic term to try and explain it.

It you you want to get essence out of genetic goo of a speice, their only one thing you'll get out of it.

A cut Codex entry actually stated that the Human-Reaper was emitting wavelengths resembling a human brain or something like that...so it might not just be pure DNA they are harvesting. Or maybe it; we don't know.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Not to mention that Mordin is wrong -- humans are not genetically diverse. We may have different peaks and vallies, but we're still very much alike.

On the serface we are not that deverse, but with the ways are body handle new environments, dieases and changes is different from person to person. The major things stay the same in humans, the small thing change.

That's not about genetic diversity, though.  Mordin is simply wrong about human genetics.  Big shock, given how little homework the Bioware staff evidently did on the subject. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Biotics......Diffent loctions of humanity, and the fact we still have a large diversity. The basics don't change over 200 years but other detailsof genetics do. Being able to resiste sickness, or adept to new envirnments, rate of though and comprehension, and other things. The thingson the serface and major part of any speices don't change easily over time but the smaller detials, and their alot of small deteils. And no, that "project" would only have the basics of human genes, not in mass.

Nothing we see in the ME setting would do anything meaningful to the human genome in the ~175 years between now and then, and that leaves plenty of time to get a sample of just about every variation of every human gene.  

Biotics alown in ME is a whole new branch of science for genetic study. They still havn't seen all the veriaties for biotics yet.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It didn't handwave, it attempted to explain and came up achingly short.  Same with the Star Trek rehash's "Red Matter" babble -- but then, Star Trek seemed to love to babble greatly, and it wore down my ability to watch the shows over time. 

Don't give me this nonsense about technology that looks like magic, however.  They weren't off in Clarkland, they were using terminology that means something, and misusing it badly.

They were using metaphorical language, speculatory thinking about what may be happening "in a sense". Actual explanations should be too technical and confusing to the player to be realistic, and obviously should not be known by EDI. EDI made the logical and only possible speculation it could do given so little data.

That said, there's no need for things like the "the stumble is all yours" comment, you're drifting off into Smudboy territory with that. 

You're right, sorry about that.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx, the idea that Reapers need our DNA to be formed is the central idea of ME2, and I see nowhere in your comment a single hint where any criticism could be formed against the idea. You are woefully confused about the subject matters and are equivocating categories of thought. Please give it a more time to think rather than trolling our arses.

Requiring millions of possibly different arrayed strands of DNA does not equal melting down millions of people to get it.  DNA is incredibly small.  As I said, you don't need an arm to trace back your lineage.  A small blood sample is all that's needed.  If the Reapers need to combine DNA and mix it up to achieve their goals it's easily done without the violent aspect of reducing any member of a species to paste.  

That was my point.  You stated how you paid attention to what was present in game, how come you weren't able to discern what I was saying?  By the way, that's rhetorical.  I don't need your arrogance anymore than I need a root canal.

And the fact that they don't just go rob the 22nd century version of the human genome project is a sign that there's more going on here than just "capturing the genetic essence" of a species...

I never said that the DNA was the only thing being used.

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Genetic diversity doesn't change in less than 200 years -- that's a genetic eyeblink. 

And there are only so many actual gene variations in the human species.  Despite what the game says, we're just not that genetically diverse as a species. 

Robbing the 2185 version of the human genome project would likely get them all they wanted, if all they were after was the full genetic diversity of the human species. 

I'm trying very hard here to not tell people to go do some up-to-date reading on the subject of genetics before replying to that. 

But who says it's just genetics that are involved here? For example, think of the virtual aliens, who transfer their consciousness onto their ship. That sounds eerily similar to a Reaper, which emits both organic and non-organic energy signatures.

Until we get a definition of 'essence of a species', we just don't know what it means. EDI probably doesn't even know what it means and just used a generic term to try and explain it.

I was only addressing the genetic side, I happen to think that you're right and that the Reapers want more than just a really creepy and violent "human genome project".  

What the game shows the Collectors doesn't look like it will get them any more than some genes and a lot of leftover gunk that's useless for construction.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Not to mention that Mordin is wrong -- humans are not genetically diverse. We may have different peaks and vallies, but we're still very much alike.

On the serface we are not that deverse, but with the ways are body handle new environments, dieases and changes is different from person to person. The major things stay the same in humans, the small thing change.

That's not about genetic diversity, though.  Mordin is simply wrong about human genetics.  Big shock, given how little homework the Bioware staff evidently did on the subject. 

Mordin referance is base on how little deversity other races have compared to humanity. And yes, the point I made are genetic deversity. How one is able to servive new disease is base on genetics which blue print is all about servivability. The way someone servives a desease is not based on race, it's based on genes and how many time they have been exposed to it. Even if a person is expose to a disease, they can still get sick from it base on how strong their immunity is, which is base on genetic info. Their is no race of human that is less or more prone to get sick. That is base on theindividual genes. Deversity.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Biotics......Diffent loctions of humanity, and the fact we still have a large diversity. The basics don't change over 200 years but other detailsof genetics do. Being able to resiste sickness, or adept to new envirnments, rate of though and comprehension, and other things. The thingson the serface and major part of any speices don't change easily over time but the smaller detials, and their alot of small deteils. And no, that "project" would only have the basics of human genes, not in mass.

Nothing we see in the ME setting would do anything meaningful to the human genome in the ~175 years between now and then, and that leaves plenty of time to get a sample of just about every variation of every human gene.  

Biotics alown in ME is a whole new branch of science for genetic study. They still havn't seen all the veriaties for biotics yet.

Nothing about biotics is going to change the human genome in a few generations.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Remember mordin statement of human deversity on his loyalty mission. That's why the harvest  mountians of people of a spieces, to get as much as the spieces gentic diversity as possible. It one thing to get genes of a race, it's another thing to get all the variations of the genes of a race.

Blood samples, skin flakes, saliva, nail clippings, sperm, stem cells, and strands of hair.  All viable methods of acquiring DNA today.  None require violent methods to ensure acquisition.

Not to mention that Mordin is wrong -- humans are not genetically diverse. We may have different peaks and vallies, but we're still very much alike.

On the serface we are not that deverse, but with the ways are body handle new environments, dieases and changes is different from person to person. The major things stay the same in humans, the small thing change.

That's not about genetic diversity, though.  Mordin is simply wrong about human genetics.  Big shock, given how little homework the Bioware staff evidently did on the subject. 

Mordin referance is base on how little deversity other races have compared to humanity. And yes, the point I made are genetic deversity. How one is able to servive new disease is base on genetics which blue print is all about servivability. The way someone servives a desease is not based on race, it's based on genes and how many time they have been exposed to it. Even if a person is expose to a disease, they can still get sick from it base on how strong their immunity is, which is base on genetic info. Their is no race of human that is less or more prone to get sick. That is base on theindividual genes. Deversity.

I recommend a good college course or a week of intense reading of reputable works before making more comments on genetics, sir.