6494 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AKA all the cells in your body are Eukaryotic cells.
...I put the wrong name..

Actually, in terms of numbers, we have many, many more prokaryotic cells in (and on) our bodies than we have eukaryotic ones.  And they're not just freeloaders either.

Ok...the ones that decide you live or die that are part ofthe body...not living in it like an eco system.... is your body.

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AKA all the cells in your body are Eukaryotic cells.
...I put the wrong name..

Actually, in terms of numbers, we have many, many more prokaryotic cells in (and on) our bodies than we have eukaryotic ones.  And they're not just freeloaders either.

Symbionts don't count.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

string3r wrote...

This thread is quite amusing I must admit, especially Dreman's constant defense of ME2's poorly written main plot. Keep up the good work guys.

I find it that no one sussesfully countered my arguement quit funny.

Are you insane? 

Your arguments have been sliced to ribbons.
 

Which ones?
The"radiation is effecting your shield generator on haelstorm, not attacking you shield directly" point I made was in my favor.
The "TIM brought Shepard back to be used as a pawn to push human past the other races and ensure human servival and domainace"  point I made was found as true.
I pointed out that the plan TIm had was not done in the begining.
Shepard was not brought back to face the collector generaly.
The human reaper was not going to be finish untill afterthe reaper invaision stated was one of my points.
I put the detail from lore of hat can or can not be stopped by a mass effect field....Slow movement were not one of them.
I put harbingers comment that they want to turn people into reapers.
.....
So far no one could prove me wrong on these points...So, inthe end no one has countered my points.

Yeah, sure, if you continuously ignore all the ways in which your hypothesis about Haestrom and the kinetic barriers doesn't explain the observable phenomena, then you were "right" about the heat. 

And if you ignore what we see several times in the games, including the barriers that Liara is trapped in and behind on Therrum, then you were "right" about the barriers.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

string3r wrote...

This thread is quite amusing I must admit, especially Dreman's constant defense of ME2's poorly written main plot. Keep up the good work guys.

I find it that no one sussesfully countered my arguement quit funny.

Are you insane? 

Your arguments have been sliced to ribbons.
 

Which ones?
The"radiation is effecting your shield generator on haelstorm, not attacking you shield directly" point I made was in my favor.
The "TIM brought Shepard back to be used as a pawn to push human past the other races and ensure human servival and domainace"  point I made was found as true.
I pointed out that the plan TIm had was not done in the begining.
Shepard was not brought back to face the collector generaly.
The human reaper was not going to be finish untill afterthe reaper invaision stated was one of my points.
I put the detail from lore of hat can or can not be stopped by a mass effect field....Slow movement were not one of them.
I put harbingers comment that they want to turn people into reapers.
.....
So far no one could prove me wrong on these points...So, inthe end no one has countered my points.

Yeah, sure, if you continuously ignore all the ways in which your hypothesis about Haestrom and the kinetic barriers doesn't explain the observable phenomena, then you were "right" about the heat. 

And if you ignore what we see several times in the games, including the barriers that Liara is trapped in and behind on Therrum, then you were "right" about the barriers.

What are you taking about...They say it a million times in the mission...The solar radiation fries tech that does not have the right protection that directly in it(Sunlight)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r4dGrhwteLk#t=431s
http://www.youtube.c...rbrwD0B0#t=115s

Also, what other times did you see Shepard walk through heavy kinetic barriers? The one time of shield that stated this confution is only trigger by fast movement as a saftly mechanisum. What it can't stop is clearly in the lore...
"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

.....
So it your going to tell me I'm wrong....then your saying the story and lore is wrong...on this.

[Killjoy Cutter]

So in other words, you're going to ignore the barriers on Therum, and ignore the observable phenomena on Haestrom and continue to insist that radiation can only refer to light and heat?

No surprise.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

NONE of which changes the span of the human genome.  You keep talking about things that change the FRQUENCY of genes, and ignoring the simple fact that none of them ADD genes. 

http://evolution.ber...variation.shtml

Genetic Variation
Without genetic variation, some of the basic mechanisms of evolutionary change cannot operate.
There are three primary sources of genetic variation, which we will learn more about:







Mutations are changes in the DNA. A single mutation can have a large effect, but in many cases, evolutionary change is based on the accumulation of many mutations.



Gene flow is any movement of genes from one population to another and is an important source of genetic variation.


Sex can introduce new gene combinations into a population. This genetic shuffling is another important source of genetic variation.

Holy crap.   NONE of that changes where you're wrong. 

NONE of that changes the actual gene variations that exist in a species, and to capture the entire genetic diversity, the entire genome of a species, you just need to have all the possible variations sampled ONCE.  That's it.  Drift, frequency, subpopulations, etc, NONE of that matters. 

The only source of new genes in a species that you have listed there is mutation, and that only occurs when the mutation takes place in very specific reproductive cells, and the vast, vast majority of mutations occur in meaningless junk segments, or are non-viable.  The odds of a new and viable mutation occuring in a single generation of ****** sapiens sapiens is very very small, and with the rate of human reproduction, it would take forever to spread -- assuming a birthrate of 2 offspring per parent and an average generational time of 25 years, in ~175 years, that's a hypothetical maximum of 128 people out of billions and billions who have that new variation of that gene -- and in truth, it's a lot less than that because not every child gets a copy in each generation.  If the Reapers care about genes that damn rare, they're going to need to just go ahead and render down every single human being in existance. 


Sheesh.

And that still doesn't make you right about the range of possible genes that any one human being could have changing in a handful of generations. 

You keep repeating the the same irrelevent facts as if they're suddenly going to become relevent and somehow make you right, and they never are. 

You can talk all you want about how the distribution of genes changes over time, and that won't change the actual span of the variation, or the number of variants of any particular gene that actually exist. 

The ability to identify genes and what they encode for and variations of those genes is accelerating, while the rate of new genes appearing is still constant and glacially slow.  There is absolutely no reason to think that we won't catch up and identify all human genes and their variants sometime in the next 175 years. 

In terms of gathering the full span of genetic variance for any species, there would be no need for anyone to have any more than a full map of the genome and all possible variants of each gene for that species.  Anything else that the Reapers or anyone else would want to take would be for some purpose beyond that. 

Why do you keep trying to insist that it takes more than knowing what each gene codes for and what all the possible variants are for all the genes?   There is literally no other information that you need. 

Biotic in itself is a mutation. That's the new change. The  mutation happens in the embreo. Heck, from the people who study genes themselves state that mutation is common . The only thing is that most of it is garbage code. Genetic flow adds to this by combining isolated gene strain so they mutate together, making more variations. Which is my point......the fact that we are combining together as a raceand the fact the we are isoloting ourself with coloney create gene veriaty. Biotics being one of them.....Based on what the expert said, and I sat though him whole explination.

Funny, the Wiki entry on Biotics doesn't mention anything about mutations. 

The in utero effects sound teratogenic , not mutagenic.

[Sgt Stryker]

Maybe the "barrier curtains" on Therum are not the same thing as personal kinetic barriers? Sure, both use the mass effect. However, they are used for different applications. A good analogy is radar and commercial FM radio. Both are applications of a specific type of electromagnetic radiation, but they are not the same thing. One is used to track the position and movement of objects, while the other is used to transmit information over long distances.

The only problem that I see is that there is no separate Codex entry for these types of fields, and people erroneously assume that they are kinetic barriers. If there was a Codex entry for these barriers from the very beginning, I think the whole discussion would have been settled long ago.

One other thing to note: Besides biotics, those geth shields from ME1, and the Shadow Broker's shield, the only place we encounter barriers that can stop large, slow objects happen to be on former prothean worlds. Something to think about, isn't it?

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:34 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

NONE of which changes the span of the human genome.  You keep talking about things that change the FRQUENCY of genes, and ignoring the simple fact that none of them ADD genes. 

http://evolution.ber...variation.shtml

Genetic Variation
Without genetic variation, some of the basic mechanisms of evolutionary change cannot operate.
There are three primary sources of genetic variation, which we will learn more about:







Mutations are changes in the DNA. A single mutation can have a large effect, but in many cases, evolutionary change is based on the accumulation of many mutations.



Gene flow is any movement of genes from one population to another and is an important source of genetic variation.


Sex can introduce new gene combinations into a population. This genetic shuffling is another important source of genetic variation.

Holy crap.   NONE of that changes where you're wrong. 

NONE of that changes the actual gene variations that exist in a species, and to capture the entire genetic diversity, the entire genome of a species, you just need to have all the possible variations sampled ONCE.  That's it.  Drift, frequency, subpopulations, etc, NONE of that matters. 

The only source of new genes in a species that you have listed there is mutation, and that only occurs when the mutation takes place in very specific reproductive cells, and the vast, vast majority of mutations occur in meaningless junk segments, or are non-viable.  The odds of a new and viable mutation occuring in a single generation of ****** sapiens sapiens is very very small, and with the rate of human reproduction, it would take forever to spread -- assuming a birthrate of 2 offspring per parent and an average generational time of 25 years, in ~175 years, that's a hypothetical maximum of 128 people out of billions and billions who have that new variation of that gene -- and in truth, it's a lot less than that because not every child gets a copy in each generation.  If the Reapers care about genes that damn rare, they're going to need to just go ahead and render down every single human being in existance. 


Sheesh.

And that still doesn't make you right about the range of possible genes that any one human being could have changing in a handful of generations. 

You keep repeating the the same irrelevent facts as if they're suddenly going to become relevent and somehow make you right, and they never are. 

You can talk all you want about how the distribution of genes changes over time, and that won't change the actual span of the variation, or the number of variants of any particular gene that actually exist. 

The ability to identify genes and what they encode for and variations of those genes is accelerating, while the rate of new genes appearing is still constant and glacially slow.  There is absolutely no reason to think that we won't catch up and identify all human genes and their variants sometime in the next 175 years. 

In terms of gathering the full span of genetic variance for any species, there would be no need for anyone to have any more than a full map of the genome and all possible variants of each gene for that species.  Anything else that the Reapers or anyone else would want to take would be for some purpose beyond that. 

Why do you keep trying to insist that it takes more than knowing what each gene codes for and what all the possible variants are for all the genes?   There is literally no other information that you need. 

Biotic in itself is a mutation. That's the new change. The  mutation happens in the embreo. Heck, from the people who study genes themselves state that mutation is common . The only thing is that most of it is garbage code. Genetic flow adds to this by combining isolated gene strain so they mutate together, making more variations. Which is my point......the fact that we are combining together as a raceand the fact the we are isoloting ourself with coloney create gene veriaty. Biotics being one of them.....Based on what the expert said, and I sat though him whole explination.

Funny, the Wiki entry on Biotics doesn't mention anything about mutations. 

The in utero effects sound teratogenic , not mutagenic.

It's more of the same consept like radiation causing mutation. http://www.commondre...s01/0509-02.htm 

[dreman9999]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Maybe the "barrier curtains" on Therum are not the same thing as personal kinetic barriers? Sure, both use the mass effect. However, they are used for different applications. A good analogy is radar and commercial FM radio. Both are applications of a specific type of electromagnetic radiation, but they are not the same thing. One is used to track the position and movement of objects, while the other is used to transmit information over long distances.

The only problem that I see is that there is no separate Codex entry for these types of fields, and people erroneously assume that they are kinetic barriers. If there was a Codex entry for these barriers from the very beginning, I think the whole discussion would have been settled long ago.

One other thing to note: Besides biotics, those geth shields from ME1, and the Shadow Broker's shield, the only place we encounter barriers that can stop large, slow objects happen to be on former prothean worlds. Something to think about, isn't it?

That the very point I'm making. Soldier kintic barrier are differnt from ship and other type of heavy barrier because the soldier shields are  automatic and are triggered by speed as a safety mechanisum. The fields are strong enough to cut off air, and if it was on all the time soldier would not be able tointeact with their environment when it's on.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:09 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So in other words, you're going to ignore the barriers on Therum, and ignore the observable phenomena on Haestrom and continue to insist that radiation can only refer to light and heat?

No surprise.

You had to use a lazer to get around the barrier on therum...You could not walk through it. The barrier on therum was my point.
And I never said radiation was light and heat only...You putting words in my mouth. I said, Mass effect field can't keep radiation out.
It you understood radiation protection, you would no why.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:46 .

[didymos1120]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Funny, the Wiki entry on Biotics doesn't mention anything about mutations. 

The in utero effects sound teratogenic , not mutagenic.

Well, we know it frequently causes cancers, so it's possibly mutagenic.  Depends on by which mechanism the cancers are caused.

[KotorEffect3]

157 pages smugboy will never be humble

[Bourne Endeavor]

Arkitekt wrote...

"Based upon everything we know"? I'm betting that this assertion is just baseless. The funny thing is that Smudboy asserts that the remains of Shepard would not "survive" the fall at all, which would be a good criticism if he actually went around and tried to show it. It's quite ironic that both he and you criticize ME2 for handwaving the issue, by handwaving yourselves and pretending that this "fact" is self-evidently true no matter what. I have a background in physics and whenever I see arguments like this I never go "ok that makes sense", I go "show me", as in "calculate before speaking". He and you don't, so I cannot take this criticism seriously.

I agree it may not be the best example of pettiness (I haven't seen his videos for awhile now, and that's the argument that was more "controversial" in my head so I remember it well), but it is a petty one.

Handwaving would insinuate I am ignoring blatantly relevant information to bolster my argument, which is not the case as none exists. Allow us to go over what we know...

- Kinetic shields cannot protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation as per the codex
- The gravity on Alchera is merely 15% less that of Earth
- We witness Shepard begin to burn when entering Alchera's atmosphere
- Shepard had already suffocated, therefore no manual action could be performed
- Her acceleration upon descent would be akin to several hundred miles per hour, if not a thousand
- Impact was of enough force to separate her helmet and pieces of her armor
- She was exposed to "subzero and vacuum temperatures"
- There is no evidence to support the proposed "N7 armor parachute" idea
- Mass Effect: Redemption indicates Shepard's body remained on Alchera for at least one full month

These are the facts, so explain how Shepard's body was in any way salvageable? If she did not somehow burn to a cinder from reentry as depicted in the scene, then her body would have been little more than a spilled drink. The impact would have severed limbs, shattered every bone, blood vessels frozen and etc. Now consider that last reference point. By that length of time everything would have rotted, decomposed or evaporated. Even if we ignore the immense improbability there would be anything left, and presume some degree of preservation happened due to the frigid temperature. One month at a minimum is significant. Case in point, it is factually impossible under these circumstances Cerberus would have be able to find much of anything, let alone reconstruct her personality. The body I could begrudgingly suspend enough disbelief on however telling me they could clone her brain from nothing, is utterly ridiculous.

These are too different criticisms bungled into one. I don't agree that every death should be accompanied by a metaphysical event. I was kind of afraid that it would be the case when I saw him falling down the planet and was pleasantly surprised such a cheap emotional ploy wasn't to be used against me. Now we can agree or disagree here, and that's perfectly ok. What's really annoying in Smudboy's rant is that he doesn't acknowledge this subjectivity. For him, Shepard's death should have been an epiphany, and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Bah.

I should clarify, I was not asking for a melodramatic twenty minute montage of Shepard having to "find herself" or "soul search" however there ought to be some acknowledgement of her opinion on the subject. No living creature with competent level intelligence would shrug of defying death akin to Shepard. There would be somet inquire, challenges, anything would suffice in lieu of her simply accepting the brief crash course Jacob gives her that came across more as a bulletin board reference than anything else.

I shall quote my rewrite of this entire scene...

Cerberus Railroading
"In lieu of being killed, Shepard is knocked back into the Normandy's body where escape pods would be accessible. This does not necessarily have to be presented on camera, merely having Shepard thrown toward them would suffice. The remainder of the opening continues, with additional dialogue from Miranda highlighting that Shepard activated the pods' emergency stasis to preserve vital organs in hopes of being rescued.

Moving ahead when TIM presents the idea of joining Cerberus, Shepard remains skeptical, even after Freedom's Progress. TIM's responds by telling Shepard to visit the Citadel and see for him/herself that no one is doing anything about the abducted colonies. We then have a more heated debate with the Council, and Shepard expresses varying emotions depending on player choice, one would even be possible doubt in the Reapers but again it is entirely player chosen. Anderson will then reinforce the drive needed, retaining his mentor role from ME, Miranda will work in a shot about the incompetency of the Alliance and we are off to join Cerberus.

We can now press TIM for answers and he reveals Cerberus is actually derived of three completely different branches, it is not only further insinuated they operate on their own chain of command but that he may not have direct control over them. This may or may not be accurate, however it provides a possible outlet to trusting Cerberus, at least for now.

What this accomplishes is making it appear that the Cerberus Shepard encountered was a different branch than who (s)he is now cooperating with. Furthermore, we have acknowledged how Shepard was rebuilt, allowed Paragon Shepards and Sole Survivors the opportunity to call out Cerberus and discover for themselves that they are indeed the only ones willing to do anything. This may not be perfect per se but is a consistent narrative, which addresses all the required variables in the plot. It also removes the nonsense of spending billions to revive Shepard, since it would be considerably less expensive to bring a body out of stasis. Frankly, that mention is BioWare attempting to sell impact."

Notice how the acknowledgement of 'death/coma' would not only amount to a brief few lines of dialogue, it is player chosen? My intention was to emulate what LotSB gave us by characterizing Shepard in a subtle, yet believable way. In addition, with the aforementioned rewrite, barely anything is altered from the original intro, and we avoid the nonsensical resurrecting of the dead.

The other criticism is about Shepard's lack of characterization. I'd say that we are still in the early begginings of these "genres" and the designers are threading new / recent territories, I'd forgive them more in what we can acknowledge as perhaps not the best approach to a RPG playable character. However it was a decision and it has reasons for it, so to criticize it to be incompetent is just missing the point. Perhaps it is not the best approach, ok, so go prove it yourself and create a new game with that in mind (or help others do so - to write comments about it is a start).

Now you are simply attempting to find excuses for BioWare. They are a big boy and can handle small time critics and fans such as myself indicting points where their writing is sloppy. Characterization of Shepard is not some quantum leap, just subtle acknowledgement of emotion attributed to what defines use as human. LotSB and my example are instances of doing this, although I shan't be arrogant enough to boast my way is perfect, just a step in the right direction. For all intents and purposes, I would "cut them some slack" here if the plot was better written however if I aim to analyze every aspect with an objective mind, then this warrants mention regardless of the degree I found it bothersome.

Unrelated, you lose significant creditability in a debate by claiming, "go create a game yourself" as you essentially suggest criticism is unjustified unless you can lord superiority. What is the point of critics then? Better still, what rights do we have to our opinions? Evidently, I am in no position to make a movie, therefore I cannot call Twilight an abomination while using defined story structure terms? Taken to an extreme, I use to rank as one of the top Halo 2 players, thus of the millions beneath my rank, none could say a single word about how I play or what I do because "I'm better than you"?

Exaggerative scenarios, but the point was made. Insinuating, "Go make your own game then" is a baseless, straw man argument and simply bad form.

Well I disagree here. I see no such big amount of  "plot holes" in the main plot (just a less interesting plot than say ME1), and I do see some failures in the episodic character arcs (we are never seen what keeps Jack inside Normandy at all, for instance - which is an amazing failure; Kasumi's Greybox is filled with wtfs in the story behind it; the fact that we are taking all the time in the world to solve these people's "issues" instead of fighting the greatest threat of the galaxy may have a point - the thing about "closure" - but it doesn't feel right from the player's perspective to lose such a big time with it). The more episodic nature of ME2 is a problem for many people, but in no means is a sign of "bad writing", it is a choice of style, not a lack of competence.

For me it felt pretty good, because it meant that everytime I played it, I was going to play a different "story" with its own internal twists and moral problems, and not just continue the bigger plot that I started playing a month ago. It is perhaps the main reason why I replayed it so much (it works more like a year-long sci fi show than a very big one motion picture).

I never claimed the character arcs were flawless, and in fact put them on a ranged scale from good to excellent. Furthermore your examples are somewhat irrelevant, if not even logical. Jack remains apart the Normandy because she concludes her best opportunity to "stick it" to Cerberus is through Shepard. Even if you renegade her, she grows to respect Shepard's approach, citing, "Whenever I act like a ****, you tell me to suck it up." She respects you, something that is an enormous indication of her development. She otherwise has nothing better to do, which the story acknowledges as one of her reasons. Kasumi's Greybox is irrelevant to the plot or her character arc. Our only requirement was to help her recover it, what she does therefore might be intriguing to know but not necessary.

Lastly, doing loyalty missions is not a mandatory requirement. You can complete the Suicide Mission without having helped any of the crew and still be successful. In fact, you would only lose one, two at most by utilizing the immediate method. Likewise, neither the Collectors nor the Omega 4 Relay are going anywhere. We haven't any need to rush our objective and have plenty of time to help our squad. Coincidently, the writing to explain a gameplay mechanic is actually surprisingly well accomplished here, Unfortunately, why loyalty has any relevance to the Suicide Mission actions, is not. Therefore, your argument is inaccurate.

No one stated the episodic structure of the plot was bad writing. We claimed the lack of proper exposition, frequent plot holes, character segregation and inconsistencies in the main plot and the complete irrelevance the characters had within it, was. Take Garrus for instance, you could remove him completely from the story and lose nothing. Thane is perhaps the most egregious, since he has literally nothing to contribute beyond another body. One could at least argue Garrus' use from a gameplay perspective being his recruitment grants access to the Thanix Cannon and he is useful on the Suicide Mission. Meanwhile, Thane does nothing, ever.

Now they do not all have to be plot integral, however their entire story should not happen in a complete separate secondary arc, leaving them hollow in the actual plot itself. Someone said it best, "These are all amazing characters but they're in the wrong story." Look at Wrex and the Genophage, or the VS' reaction to whomever you leave behind. Those happened in the actual plot, not just off by the wayside.

dreman9999 wrote...

...1.It's an rpg. Doing that would take control out of your role.
2.It would make the game black and white. Bioware wants it to be grey.
3.It will make the reapers look ultametly evil, whih Bioware want then to have a reason to do what they're doing.
4.It's not manditory.
5.This is hard science fiction.
....
Why do people take this guys word as fact when he does not know what the plot direction is?

1. It worked perfectly fine in LotSB, why can't it for the main plot?
2. Right, so grey they give you a completely black and white choice at the ending.
3. Evil is subjective. For most, they are "ultimately evil" due to their genocide tendencies. A villain can still exhibit reason for their actions. My examples are merely Shepard's perspective of them, which are not necessarily factual.
4. It is for characterization, otherwise Shepard is static. (Keep in mind, no I do not believe her contemplating death would fix everything. That was merely one example)
5. Yet, they make up complete nonsense, write impossible events and contradict both themselves and actual science they invent.

dreman9999 wrote...

string3r wrote...

This thread is quite amusing I must admit, especially Dreman's constant defense of ME2's poorly written main plot. Keep up the good work guys.

I find it that no one sussesfully countered my arguement quit funny.

Ah, and here we call Smudboy arrogant. Many have countered your arguments with factual information, yet you have a tendency to either fabricate things, completely ignore sections you cannot refute or make baseless assumptions and then deny it all. Nonetheless, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:36 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So in other words, you're going to ignore the barriers on Therum, and ignore the observable phenomena on Haestrom and continue to insist that radiation can only refer to light and heat?

No surprise.

You had to use a lazer to get around the barrier on therum...You could not walk through it. The barrier on therum was my point.
And I never said radiation was light and heat only...You putting words in my mouth. I said, Mass effect field can't keep radiation out.
It you understood radiation protection, you would no why.

Wait, OK, so you're saying that the barrier on Therum IS an example of barriers stoppling more than just high-velocity small objects.  Ugh, I wish you could write more clearly. 


As for the radiation, you've said several times that it's not particle radiation interacting with the kinetic barriers on Haestrom that caused the problem.  And yet, the problem on Haestrom is clearly not direct effects on the equipment, or your weapons and suit computers and other equipment would fail as fast as your barriers do -- which they don't -- and your barriers would just fail, not act like they're being battered down by something -- which they do. 

If a kinetic barrier can clock bullets or hold air -- both of which we can see barriers doing -- they can block particle radiation in the same way.  Small, fast-moving objects. 

[Xeranx]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

157 pages smugboy will never be humble

Especially with you bumping the topic.  It surprises me that though you and others dislike him so much you can't stop yourselves from bumping a thread that champions his ideas and feelings on various topics.  Keep doing your part in keeping the thread alive...especially with one line comments such as this. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So in other words, you're going to ignore the barriers on Therum, and ignore the observable phenomena on Haestrom and continue to insist that radiation can only refer to light and heat?

No surprise.

You had to use a lazer to get around the barrier on therum...You could not walk through it. The barrier on therum was my point.
And I never said radiation was light and heat only...You putting words in my mouth. I said, Mass effect field can't keep radiation out.
It you understood radiation protection, you would no why.

Wait, OK, so you're saying that the barrier on Therum IS an example of barriers stoppling more than just high-velocity small objects.  Ugh, I wish you could write more clearly. 


As for the radiation, you've said several times that it's not particle radiation interacting with the kinetic barriers on Haestrom that caused the problem.  And yet, the problem on Haestrom is clearly not direct effects on the equipment, or your weapons and suit computers and other equipment would fail as fast as your barriers do -- which they don't -- and your barriers would just fail, not act like they're being battered down by something -- which they do. 

If a kinetic barrier can clock bullets or hold air -- both of which we can see barriers doing -- they can block particle radiation in the same way.  Small, fast-moving objects. 

The suits computer is not exposed. The guns need more time to be effected and is made to ender high degrees of radiation and heat.

Polonium Rounds  http://masseffect.wi...Polonium_Rounds
This upgrade stamps a minuscule amount of radioactive polonium into every round fired, effectively poisoning enemy targets. It also prevents enemy regeneration.
.....
Shield generator are more delicate.
 And you can't really say anything ageint what the character are sayinf now.

As for the barrier on Therum , of course it an exaple of a kinetic barrier stopping slow moving object and ofcousre I would say it. I was the one that first brought it up. And for goodness, you had to us a laser to get around it.
http://www.youtube.c...3pArvUyo#t=223s
.....
And for the last time...Partical radiation is not commonly found on planets......Haelsteam was being hit with solar radiation. If their is particalradiation on a planet, other form of radiation would be there, too. So having some with you that can only protect you from one form of radiation when you have more than one is mute.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:52 .

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

...1.It's an rpg. Doing that would take control out of your role.
2.It would make the game black and white. Bioware wants it to be grey.
3.It will make the reapers look ultametly evil, whih Bioware want then to have a reason to do what they're doing.
4.It's not manditory.
5.This is hard science fiction.
....
Why do people take this guys word as fact when he does not know what the plot direction is?

1. It worked perfectly fine in LotSB, why can't it for the main plot?
2. Right, so grey they give you a completely black and white choice at the ending.
3. Evil is subjective. For most, they are "ultimately evil" due to their genocide tendencies. A villain can still exhibit reason for their actions. My examples are merely Shepard's perspective of them, which are not necessarily factual.
4. It is for characterization, otherwise Shepard is static. (Keep in mind, no I do not believe her contemplating death would fix everything. That was merely one example)
5. Yet, they make up complete nonsense, write impossible events and contradict both themselves and actual science they invent.


.

1.You still make chioces in Lair of the Shadow broker.
2. The choice in the end was not black and white. Neather of them were evil or good choice. Both could be looked at as selfish at most.
3.That's my point. They don't want to make a Sauron from Lord of the rings. If they make a holy light side focusing on Shepard as chosen one of the light side, the reapers would be on the dark.
4.It's a roleplaing game....you play a role.
5.If you look at the lore, you see how things make sense. As for Shepards reserection.....It will be explained.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:05 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.You still make chioces in Lair of the Shadow broker.
2. The choice in the end was not black and white. Neather of them were evil or good choice. Both could be looked at asselfish.
3.That's my point. They don't want to make a Sauron from Lord of the rings. If they make a holy light side focusing on Shepard as chosen one of the light side, the reapers would be on the dark.
4.It's a roleplaing game....you play a role.
5.If you look at the lore, you see how things make sense. As for Shepards reserection.....It will be explained.

• Yes, and in my example you have a variety of choices on how Shepard would react, I specifically mentioned that. So it is exactly like LotSB
• You have two choices; destroy the Collector Base or don't. Should you choose the former, entire crew agrees with your decision, if you opt for the later they all unanimously disagree. Mordin goes so far as to blatantly contradict himself wherein the Collector Base he agrees with keeping the base, then disagrees on the Normandy. This is the definition of a black and white choice, which was coincidently also a false dichotomy since we can never keep the base but not give it to Cerberus. Destroying it never made any sense.
• What point, you never made one. The Reapers are already viewed as evil, this does not provide them from having depth or rationality to their actions and motives, nor does Shepard expression emotion of her resurrection have anything to do with what you're saying.
• Yes, to be a static brick who just goes along with whatever people say. Just because Shepard is the player avatar, does not mean she cannot have personality developmental choices, like in LotSB. If it worked once, it would work again.
• I have looked at the lore, no explanation, plenty of contradictions, none of which makes any sense. Exactly, you finally acknowledged it wasn't explained, and guess what that equates to? Bad writing. ME2 has to explain Shepard's resurrection, not ME3.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[dreman9999]

x

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[dreman9999]

Yes, and in my example you have a variety of choices on how Shepard would react, I specifically mentioned that. So it is exactly like LotSB
[quote]Bourne Endeavor wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

1.You still make chioces in Lair of the Shadow broker.
2. The choice in the end was not black and white. Neather of them were evil or good choice. Both could be looked at asselfish.
3.That's my point. They don't want to make a Sauron from Lord of the rings. If they make a holy light side focusing on Shepard as chosen one of the light side, the reapers would be on the dark.
4.It's a roleplaing game....you play a role.
5.If you look at the lore, you see how things make sense. As for Shepards reserection.....It will be explained.

[/quote]

...............................................................
You have two choices; destroy the Collector Base or don't. Should you choose the former, entire crew agrees with your decision, if you opt for the later they all unanimously disagree. Mordin goes so far as to blatantly contradict himself wherein the Collector Base he agrees with keeping the base, then disagrees on the Normandy. This is the definition of a black and white choice, which was coincidently also a false dichotomy since we can never keep the base but not give it to Cerberus. Destroying it never made any sense.

What point, you never made one. The Reapers are already viewed as evil, this does not provide them from having depth or rationality to their actions and motives, nor does Shepard expression emotion of her resurrection have anything to do with what you're saying.

Yes, to be a static brick who just goes along with whatever people say. Just because Shepard is the player avatar, does not mean she cannot have personality developmental choices, like in LotSB. If it worked once, it would work again.

I have looked at the lore, no explanation, plenty of contradictions, none of which makes any sense. Exactly, you finally acknowledged it wasn't explained, and guess what that equates to? Bad writing. ME2 has to explain Shepard's resurrection, not ME3.[/list][/quote]1.You still make chioces in Lair of the Shadow broker.
2. The choice in the end was not black and white. Neather of them were evil or good choice. Both could be looked at asselfish.
3.That's my point. They don't want to make a Sauron from Lord of the rings. If they make a holy light side focusing on Shepard as chosen one of the light side, the reapers would be on the dark.
4.It's a roleplaing game....you play a role.
5.If you look at the lore, you see how things make sense. As for Shepards reserection.....It will be explained.

[/quote]

[list=1]
You have two choices; destroy the Collector Base or don't. Should you choose the former, entire crew agrees with your decision, if you opt for the later they all unanimously disagree. Mordin goes so far as to blatantly contradict himself wherein the Collector Base he agrees with keeping the base, then disagrees on the Normandy. This is the definition of a black and white choice, which was coincidently also a false dichotomy since we can never keep the base but not give it to Cerberus. Destroying it never made any sense.

What point, you never made one. The Reapers are already viewed as evil, this does not provide them from having depth or rationality to their actions and motives, nor does Shepard expression emotion of her resurrection have anything to do with what you're saying.

Yes, to be a static brick who just goes along with whatever people say. Just because Shepard is the player avatar, does not mean she cannot have personality developmental choices, like in LotSB. If it worked once, it would work again.

I have looked at the lore, no explanation, plenty of contradictions, none of which makes any sense. Exactly, you finally acknowledged it wasn't explained, and guess what that equates to? Bad writing. ME2 has to explain Shepard's resurrection, not ME3][/quote]
.................................................................
2.Your crew didn't want Cerberus to get their hands on it.....Many wanted to keep the base, many wanted to destroy it....No one wanted cerberus to get their hands on it. And keeping and destrying the base is a grey choice. Nether one is good or evil.
3.The reapers are made to be un-understandble by normal means. They are made to be the bad guy but they may have a good reason for what theyare doing. They arejust too alien, never really evil.
4.It's a roleplaying game....You play a role. You have to make the personality.
http://en.wikipedia....oleplaying_game
A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.
5.The lore explains the tech, universe, and how you do the things you do in the story and gameplay. You had to look at the lore in ME1 to understand it then., why is it a problem now? And nothing contradicts anything...AT ALL...from story to lore.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:48 .

[Il Divo]

Xeranx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

157 pages smugboy will never be humble

Especially with you bumping the topic.  It surprises me that though you and others dislike him so much you can't stop yourselves from bumping a thread that champions his ideas and feelings on various topics.  Keep doing your part in keeping the thread alive...especially with one line comments such as this. 

So, you're saying we shouldn't bump the thread....you mean like this?

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:02 .

[Xeranx]

Il Divo wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

157 pages smugboy will never be humble

Especially with you bumping the topic.  It surprises me that though you and others dislike him so much you can't stop yourselves from bumping a thread that champions his ideas and feelings on various topics.  Keep doing your part in keeping the thread alive...especially with one line comments such as this. 

So, you're saying we shouldn't bump the thread....you mean like this?

Well, that method might attract "The Woo". 

But seriously...anyone who feels such dislike for someone and continues to talk about them shows how much that person bothers them.  One might be led to believe that there's a certain place in their mind reserved for them which is probably where talk of euthanizing Smudboy comes from.  I can't give someone I dislike that much attention no matter how much I want to talk about it.  It's probably why despite how much I don't like his attitude at times I can't help but smile at the responses he ellicits.  

If you've ever marvelled at (and I don't know if you've ever watched it) "Real World: San Fransico" and how "Puck" despite being kicked out of the house still has such a profound effect on the members of said house...that was by far my favorite season and I missed a lot of it.  

Despite how much people dislike him they apparently can't get enough.  It helps that some of his points are valid as well so he's not just some throwaway entity (or villain for whoever that perception applies).  Smudboy is BSN's "Puck". 

Modifié par Xeranx, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

• Which itself is a contradiction. Miranda up until the very last moment spent the entire game campaigning for Cerberus, then makes a completely abrupt change on the spur of the moment. She ignores the pragmatic and logical perspective of keeping the base when this is precisely how she acts in every other instance. She completely contradicts her personality, although Mordin is more blatant because should you take him with you against the Human-Reaper, he agrees keeping the base is a good idea, well aware it will be handed over to Cerberus, then says the opposite aboard the Normandy. No, a grey choice is one that cannot be morally defined by the subjective views of good and evil. Every one of your squad supports the paragon choice and condemns the renegade. This equates to a black and white decision; destroying the base is thought good, while keeping it is deemed evil.
• Once again evil is a subjective term, defined only be the perspective of those viewing a specific action and attributing a moral code. Making them alien does not alter the perception they are considered evil. Nevertheless, their objective is genocide, therefore most conclude this as an evil act and associate that toward the Reapers. Whatever their motives are is irrelevant. Coincidently, it remains to elude what in the world this has to do with Shepard expressing emotions.
• Your point was? Shepard never develops. She is a static brick who follows along with the plot. A demonstration of character development would be Jack gradually respecting Shepard to the point she calls her "Commander" in a firm and confident tone. This is huge when we consider her initial attitude. Garrus coming to terms with his revenge is another instance. Shepard never experiences any of these. The only example is during LotSB when Liara asks how she feels. That is what we ought to see more of, Shepard expressing an opinion relevant to herself.
• Because it doesn't explain some things: Shepard resurrection, Mordin's weird science contradiction and etc.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:29 .

[mrklean007]

I find that people who criticize smudboy aren't listening to his arguments. Its as if they hear "ME2 had a bad plot" and just go into some irrational hate-filled freak out mode

[Firesteel]

I watched all of his analysis for Mass Effect 1 and two's story. I do agree with most of it, though some of his ideas for "fixing" the game are far too complicated for the direction Bioware seems to be headed. I think in theory some of his additions to the game would be very good, and actually seem to be coming in ME3 (ie: squadmate conflicts that actually mean something), though in the Fixing ME2 series, I would say some of his ideas are convoluted and could become as equally annoying as planet scanning in ME2 (ie: artifacts and forcing you to use certain squaddies).

The forcing you to use certain squaddies makes some sense, but detracts from having a more free form way of making up your squad, although you would probably use them all at some point.