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Smudboy's Mass Effect series analysis.


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#4001
dreman9999

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
................
And with that stated, Haelstrom has yet to truely be effected by particle radiation becuse the atmosphere is not like Venus.
What I put down states that everytime  particle radiation passed matter, it loses radiation. So being it the particale truely effected  Haelstorm, Haelstrom would be like Venus due to the fact that the increased heat expands mass of elements. The gas of the planet would thicken the atmosphere, meaning more matter for Particale radiation to hit to loss power. This would mean even less particle radiation on the Surface on the planet.
......



Now you're just talking out of your butt.  Stop.

No,I'm not...So your say heated elemets don't expand and rise? I mean you see it all the time when you boil water.
So why can't that happen to every thing on Haestrom if it's hit with a super high amount of particale radiation. We already know it's an earth levelplanet, so why hasn't the elements of that planet chock out the aatmosphere in mass due to heat? Please tell me=] ? Venus is an examle of what would happen.


If you'd read the article at your own link, you'd have noticed the fact that Venus actualy LOSES atmosphere to the effects of particle radiation.  It's dense and hot for entirely different reasons.  The effects of particle radiation on an atmosphere don't include significant heating, no matter how much sense it makes to you that it would happen. 

When citing something like Wikipedia, it always helps to read the entire section. 

Yes, I know. That because it has 1 layer of protection. It has no magneticsphere with only an
ionosphere to protect it. It's a good example of what would happen when a planets magneticsphere is overwhelmed. Haelstrom was with in a common star before the geth unprising...which was 300 years ago...Not enough time for a planet to total lose or even be majorly effected by a lack of particale radiation protection. Haestrom still hasa magneticsphere, which can't keep everything out and being over whelmed, and Venus ihas been with out one for millions of years and it still has an atmosphere.
Haelstrom would not lose it's atmosphere in less than 300 years.


**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 septembre 2011 - 07:51 .


#4002
Killjoy Cutter

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dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 11 septembre 2011 - 07:58 .


#4003
dreman9999

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html......=]


....
To add to this.http://en.wikipedia....ind#Atmospheres

Atmospheres
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.
Venus,
the nearest and most similar planet to Earth in our Solar System, has
an atmosphere 100 times denser than our own. Modern space probes have
discovered a comet-like tail that extends to the orbit of the Earth.[33]
Earth itself is largely protected from the solar wind by its magnetic field, which deflects most of the charged particles; however some of the charged particles are trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
A smaller number of particles from the solar wind manage to travel, as
though on an electromagnetic energy transmission line, to the Earth's
upper atmosphere and ionosphere
in the auroral zones. The only time the solar wind is observable on the
Earth is when it is strong enough to produce phenomena such as the aurora and geomagnetic storms. Bright auroras strongly heat the ionosphere, causing its plasma to expand into the magnetosphere, increasing the size of the plasma geosphere, and causing escape of atmospheric matter into the solar wind. geomagnetic storms
result when the pressure of plasmas contained inside the magnetosphere
is sufficiently large to inflate and thereby distort the geomagnetic
field.
Mars is
larger than Mercury and four times farther from the Sun, and yet even
here it is thought that the solar wind has stripped away up to a third
of its original atmosphere, leaving a layer 1/100th as dense as the
Earth's. It is believed the mechanism for this atmospheric stripping is
gas being caught in bubbles of magnetic field, which are ripped off by
solar winds

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 septembre 2011 - 08:20 .


#4004
Arkitekt

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Bourne Endeavor wrote...

You gloss over the fact Shepard's helmet and armor would found separate from her body. Therefore, they either broke apart prior to her collision on the planet's surface or upon contact. In either scenario, this would indication significant force, enough at a minimum to sever body parts. We can also reasonably surmise her landing location based on the location of the helmet.


I gloss over no such thing. Multiple things may have happened and I only need one of those possibilities to be favorable, not all of them. This is also a red herring.

With regards to the rest, I can quote the man people seem to loathe here...

smudboy wrote...http://exploration.g...ket/termvr.html

Calculate Shepard's velocity given an Earth or Mars atmosphere.

Alchera has slightly less gravity, (0.85 g) and slightly less atmospheric pressure (0.83 atm), yet having a "thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia."  We don't know the core, but it must be a heavy metal, and has some small, if not meager magnetosphere, or else there'd be no atmosphere; and, Shepard = firey atomic re-entry (so it's more similar to Mars.)  Aside from determining the drag coefficient, air resistance and the sort, you'll get a value somewhere between 350-750 miles/h (assuming Shepard takes up 5 sqft and weighs 200 pounds.)

However Shepard is not starting at free fall, and we have to assume there are no other objects or air resistance stopping or slowing their descent.  Shepard's moving at the "Velocity Of Detonation", or whatever explosion pushed them into space.  Explosive forces range from 1800-10300m/s, but we'll just go with 3000m/s.  That's roughly 11,000 miles/h, in space.

Terminal velocity for Alchera would've already been achieved before Shepard even entered the atmosphere.

Compound that with the angular velocity the planet is spinning at while being pulled toward it, and you've got a mush of organic material after smashing into a frozen icey planet.  How their helmet, let alone the Mako and pieces of the Normandy is still intact, is anyone's guess.

Link


Half-baked numbers over half baked numbers without any kind of logical rigorous analysis. I can do this kind of shenanigan too and perhaps I'll sway some people into believing I'm making serious maths, but I'd be merely fooling people. The "you'll get a value somewhere between" is hilarious. Not only I don't see this value at all given the atmosphere in question is just ~20% less dense than Earth's, he's just making **** up like he likes it. His other value that he just makes up, 3kms-1, is "nice" until you figure that (1) that's just one possibility amongst others and I only need one possibility to be favorable, I don't need his "best guess" to be so; (2) it ignores Normandy's velocity relative to the planet; (3) it ignores the fact that 3kms-1 is incompatible with what we visually see ingame. And you can "compound" anything you want really. You can imagine that Normandy is travelling 30kms-1 relative to the surface of the planet, or that it was in synch with the surface.

All in all, his maths are merely one hypothesis, one which is clearly not the one that happened, since Shepard's body was actually retrieved ;).


The Normandy Crash site is completely silent, Shepard does not expression any emotion or even comment on anything. All we receive are still images taken from the first game. Sure, it might be a nice touch and I personally fancy the mission however the comparison you made is rather poor.


It's not a comparison. In a game where you don't get to express feelings due to the choice of definitions of what is a RPG by the authors, it's probably the best you can have. And I think it's fairly good. You wanted just a small chat, well now you complain that a whole level is too little. People are hard!

So because BioWare is the new kid on the lack they cannot receive criticism for bad writing? This isn't their first rodeo, they brag every instance they get about story telling and plot development, which they are more than welcome to do, just as I am to criticism them.


Read what I said, I am mentioning the fact that the genre itself is still in its infancy. They are still messing with a lot of things in the games, they still have a lot of work ahead of them. When genres are young, they are still filled with hard choices, some choices that people will regard as "mistakes". It's not about being acrititcal to it, just to understand it for what it is.

You said "quite different" yet then say the same? Okay, well that makes sense. Telling someone to "help make one" is insinuating the same thing; you shouldn't criticize unless you can do better. In fact, you seem to go one step further and adhere to the idea we ought to avoid criticism entirely.


Nope, try again. Not what I said. You can go back and read it again and then blush at the ranting you are making now.


Good, glad you acknowledge BioWare has bad writing



Did I ever said otherwise? You confuse the thesis that "Smudboy's full of ****" with "Bioware's perfect and ME2 is just heaven on earth" too easily.

#4005
Killjoy Cutter

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dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html......=]


....
To add to this.http://en.wikipedia....ind#Atmospheres

Atmospheres
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.
Venus,
the nearest and most similar planet to Earth in our Solar System, has
an atmosphere 100 times denser than our own. Modern space probes have
discovered a comet-like tail that extends to the orbit of the Earth.[33]
Earth itself is largely protected from the solar wind by its magnetic field, which deflects most of the charged particles; however some of the charged particles are trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
A smaller number of particles from the solar wind manage to travel, as
though on an electromagnetic energy transmission line, to the Earth's
upper atmosphere and ionosphere
in the auroral zones. The only time the solar wind is observable on the
Earth is when it is strong enough to produce phenomena such as the aurora and geomagnetic storms. Bright auroras strongly heat the ionosphere, causing its plasma to expand into the magnetosphere, increasing the size of the plasma geosphere, and causing escape of atmospheric matter into the solar wind. geomagnetic storms
result when the pressure of plasmas contained inside the magnetosphere
is sufficiently large to inflate and thereby distort the geomagnetic
field.
Mars is
larger than Mercury and four times farther from the Sun, and yet even
here it is thought that the solar wind has stripped away up to a third
of its original atmosphere, leaving a layer 1/100th as dense as the
Earth's. It is believed the mechanism for this atmospheric stripping is
gas being caught in bubbles of magnetic field, which are ripped off by
solar winds



Note the word "STRIPPING" used multiple times.  Not heating, making more dense, STRIPPING. 

You've just posted a bunch of links and text that show exactly where you were wrong.

#4006
100k

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Arkitekt wrote...
Half-baked numbers over half baked numbers without any kind of logical rigorous analysis. I can do this kind of shenanigan too and perhaps I'll sway some people into believing I'm making serious maths, but I'd be merely fooling people.


So you're discrediting not only the person who wrote that, but mathematics as well? 

*rants about his version of the number game*


Dude, it doesn't matter! Shepard. Fell. From. Orbit. Onto. A. Large. Planet. 

Velocity, acceloration, calculations, etc etc, are all meaningless after that fact. It doesn't matter how fast he was going in space. It doesn't matter how fast the SR1 was falling. Shepard fell from a height (probably akin to 6 miles) and hit the surface of a hard planet.

If I walk out onto the balcony of the Empire State Building, and went off, no matter how hard I jumped towards the ground; be it a casual tumble, or a hard dive, I am going to burst upon impact of the street below -- or at least be reduced to a vague mushy shape in the suggestion of a human skeleton. And you know what? Shepard's fall -- regardless of velocity-- or what ever in god's name you two are arguing about now-- is probably at least thirty or fourty Empire State Buildings higher.

Hell, if a body fell from space onto the moon, it might not shatter into pieces, but it would still be crushed. 

This entire argument is so stupid. You're body cannot remain intact after a fall from orbit, no matter how fast you entered the atmosphere. 

#4007
didymos1120

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100k, you seem not to be aware of "terminal velocity" and the fact that lower you get in an atmosphere, the lower terminal velocity also gets. You don't just accelerate to higher and higher velocities indefinitely.

#4008
100k

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didymos1120 wrote...

100k, you seem not to be aware of "terminal velocity" and the fact that lower you get in an atmosphere, the lower terminal velocity also gets. You don't just accelerate to higher and higher velocities indefinitely.


Are you implying that it is possible for a human body to remain almost completely intact (minus broken bones) after a fall from orbit? Are you implying that?

Would you like me to post pictures of people who jumped from a few hundred feet, and a few thousand feet to show you what happens to our bodies?

*edit* sounds like I'm not allowed to post such images. 
<_<

Modifié par 100k, 12 septembre 2011 - 01:16 .


#4009
Killjoy Cutter

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100k wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

100k, you seem not to be aware of "terminal velocity" and the fact that lower you get in an atmosphere, the lower terminal velocity also gets. You don't just accelerate to higher and higher velocities indefinitely.


Are you implying that it is possible for a human body to remain almost completely intact (minus broken bones) after a fall from orbit? Are you implying that?

Would you like me to post pictures of people who jumped from a few hundred feet, and a few thousand feet to show you what happens to our bodies?

*edit* sounds like I'm not allowed to post such images. 
<_<


On the other hand, a few people have survived falls from over 10000 feet, and made a full recovery without the use of secret sci-fi medicine; and there's Project Manhigh and Project Excelsior. 

The two tricks are:

1) that reentry doesn't cause superheating of the initial velocity isn't that high 
2) that falling through an atmosphere has a terminal velocity

That said, am I claiming that the manner of Shep's death in the prologue of ME2 is anything but el-cheapo cimematastic shockitude?   No, not really. 

#4010
100k

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

100k wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

100k, you seem not to be aware of "terminal velocity" and the fact that lower you get in an atmosphere, the lower terminal velocity also gets. You don't just accelerate to higher and higher velocities indefinitely.


Are you implying that it is possible for a human body to remain almost completely intact (minus broken bones) after a fall from orbit? Are you implying that?

Would you like me to post pictures of people who jumped from a few hundred feet, and a few thousand feet to show you what happens to our bodies?

*edit* sounds like I'm not allowed to post such images. 
<_<


On the other hand, a few people have survived falls from over 10,000 feet, and made a full recovery without the use of secret sci-fi medicine; and there's Project Manhigh and Project Excelsior. 

The two tricks are:

1) that reentry doesn't cause superheating of the initial velocity isn't that high 
2) that falling through an atmosphere has a terminal velocity

That said, am I claiming that the manner of Shep's death in the prologue of ME2 is anything but el-cheapo cimematastic shockitude?   No, not really. 


I want a link to where people survive a fall from 10,000 feet, before I trust that. And if it's stuff like a tornado, that hardly counts.

#4011
dreman9999

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html......=]


....
To add to this.http://en.wikipedia....ind#Atmospheres

Atmospheres
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.
Venus,
the nearest and most similar planet to Earth in our Solar System, has
an atmosphere 100 times denser than our own. Modern space probes have
discovered a comet-like tail that extends to the orbit of the Earth.[33]
Earth itself is largely protected from the solar wind by its magnetic field, which deflects most of the charged particles; however some of the charged particles are trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
A smaller number of particles from the solar wind manage to travel, as
though on an electromagnetic energy transmission line, to the Earth's
upper atmosphere and ionosphere
in the auroral zones. The only time the solar wind is observable on the
Earth is when it is strong enough to produce phenomena such as the aurora and geomagnetic storms. Bright auroras strongly heat the ionosphere, causing its plasma to expand into the magnetosphere, increasing the size of the plasma geosphere, and causing escape of atmospheric matter into the solar wind. geomagnetic storms
result when the pressure of plasmas contained inside the magnetosphere
is sufficiently large to inflate and thereby distort the geomagnetic
field.
Mars is
larger than Mercury and four times farther from the Sun, and yet even
here it is thought that the solar wind has stripped away up to a third
of its original atmosphere, leaving a layer 1/100th as dense as the
Earth's. It is believed the mechanism for this atmospheric stripping is
gas being caught in bubbles of magnetic field, which are ripped off by
solar winds



Note the word "STRIPPING" used multiple times.  Not heating, making more dense, STRIPPING. 

You've just posted a bunch of links and text that show exactly where you were wrong.

I think you need to read it again...
http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html










Solar wind warming up EarthTopic: Global warming: future catastrophes16:56 28/09/2007MOSCOW.
(Yury Zaitsev for RIA Novosti) - Paleoclimate research shows that the
chillier periods of the Earth's history have always given way to warmer
times, and vice versa.

But it is not quite clear what causes this change. This is what makes
predicting climate change so difficult. Although everyone agrees that
the climate is changing very fast, hardly anyone can say whether it will
be warmer or colder in the next 100 years. At the moment it is getting
warmer. The majority attribute this change to human impact on the
environment. But are they right?


Lev Zeleny, director of the Institute of Space Research at the Russian
Academy of Sciences and an Academy corresponding member, believes that
before making Kyoto Protocol-like decisions, we should thoroughly study
the influence of all factors and receive more or less unequivocal
results. In order to treat an illness, we must diagnose it first, he
insists.


Yury Leonov, director of the Institute of Geology at the Russian Academy
of Sciences, thinks that the human impact on nature is so small that it
can be dismissed as a statistical mistake.


Until quite recently, experts primarily attributed global warming to
greenhouse gas emissions, with carbon dioxide singled out as the chief
culprit. But it transpires that water vapor is just as bad.


Paleoclimate studies have revealed that during the ice ages the climate
became much less damp, because the North Atlantic produced little
moisture. The increase in temperature in turn increased humidity, and as
a result rivers became fuller and more fresh water flowed into the
Arctic and the North Atlantic. This fresh water covered the ocean's
surface with a thin film, thereby decreasing evaporation. Another chilly
period set in, and the flow of the rivers slowed down, marking the
beginning of a new cycle. This is not a linear process - the higher the
average temperature, the more steam gets into the air.


"Judging by Venus, a planet, which is similar to the Earth in all
respects, we can see how far this can go. The temperature on its surface
is about 500° C (mostly due to a greenhouse effect). At one time, Venus
did not have a layer of clouds, and this is probably when it was warmed
up by the Sun, causing a greenhouse effect. What if the Sun is
responsible for the warming of our climate?
" queries Lev Zeleny.


"There are two channels of energy transfer from the Sun -
electromagnetic and corpuscular radiation," he explains. "The bulk of it
- about 1.37 kW per square meter of the Earth's surface - which equals
the power of an electric kettle - comes via the electromagnetic channel.
This flow of energy primarily fits into the visible and infrared range
of the spectrum and its amount is virtually immune to change - it alters
by no more than a few fractions of a percent. It is called the 'solar
constant.' The flow of energy reaches the Earth in eight minutes and is
largely absorbed by its atmosphere and surface. It has decisive
influence on the shaping of our climate."


The second channel is corpuscular radiation, consisting of solar wind
and space rays. Although transferring much less energy, it plays a key
role in forming "space weather" - changeable conditions in space which
depend on solar activity. Until recently, it was believed that "space
weather" had nothing to do with ours, but that idea has been proved
wrong.


"Solar wind becomes more intense when the Sun is active. It sweeps space
rays out of the solar system like a broom," Zeleny points out. "This
affects cloud formation, which cools off both the atmosphere and the
whole planet. We know from historic records that it was quite cold in
1350-1380. The Sun was very active during this time."



Solar wind is also the main transmitter of energy for geomagnetic
phenomena in the Earth's magnetosphere, which is formed as a result of
the solar wind streamlining the Earth's magnetic field. If the influx of
energy exceeds its dissipation, energy accumulates in the
magnetosphere. If a certain level of energy is exceeded, any disturbance
outside or inside the magnetosphere may release excess energy and cause
a magnetic storm. But it may also have no consequences at all.


A statistical analysis of solar and geomagnetic disturbances shows a
rather low correlation between them. It transpires that most solar
bursts do not trigger magnetic storms. It would be interesting to know
why this correlation is so low.


Nevertheless, other Sun-related phenomena have fairly regular and
predictable consequences on the Earth. Of course, they exert influence
on humans and other species and, to some extent, on the environment,
altering atmospheric pressure and temperature. But they are not likely
to contribute much to climate change. This is a global process and is
the result of global causes. For the time being, we are far from
understanding them fully.


"Some dangers are much less discussed today, for instance, the inversion
of the Earth's magnetic field," Zeleny warns. "It is gradually changing
its polarity; the poles are crawling to the equator at increasing
speed. There were whole epochs in the Earth's history when the magnetic
field all but disappeared. Such oscillations have taken place throughout
almost its entire geological history."


Paleomagnetic data show that last time the magnetic field disappeared
was several hundred thousand years ago. It is possible that the Earth
will lose it again in the 21st and 22nd centuries. The "magnetic
umbrella," which protects us from deadly space radiation, will
disappear, exposing humankind to a heavy "rainfall" of solar particles
and space rays. Our descendants will have to understand how a weaker
magnetic field will affect the climate and what protection they will
need.


Yury Zaitsev is an expert from the Institute of Space Studies.
...
Also, on the wiki page it stated...
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.


.....Haestrom still has a magneticsphere.

Now, I never stated particle did not strip the atmophere of planets, it obvious happening with haestrom, but the fact is it takes time to do that. Venus had no magneticsphere for millions of years and it still has an atmosphere, an very thick gas to at that. It may be being stripped slowly, but after a million years it still heavily there. Now you expect Haestrom to not have an atmosphere after only being over whelmed with solar radiation for less then 300 years? Even it the sun is expanding, it takes way longer than 300 years for a planet to lose it's atmosphere. Especilly with the planet still having a magneticsphere , even if that magneticsphere can't keep everything out in mass majority. Which is why solar radiation is the way it is on that planet, the atmosphere layers are starting to be eaten away. Key point :starting. On it realy loses more of the current atmoshere, other element will rise up and cloud the planet sky, like how water turns to cloud. And the partical will have more matter to make contact with. This will rise the planet presser, just like venus.
When the planet is totaly effected by particaleradiation, the atmosphere will be near gone. It will be like mercury or our moon.
And that can't happen in less than 300 years.

#4012
Killjoy Cutter

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100k wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

100k wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

100k, you seem not to be aware of "terminal velocity" and the fact that lower you get in an atmosphere, the lower terminal velocity also gets. You don't just accelerate to higher and higher velocities indefinitely.


Are you implying that it is possible for a human body to remain almost completely intact (minus broken bones) after a fall from orbit? Are you implying that?

Would you like me to post pictures of people who jumped from a few hundred feet, and a few thousand feet to show you what happens to our bodies?

*edit* sounds like I'm not allowed to post such images. 
<_<


On the other hand, a few people have survived falls from over 10,000 feet, and made a full recovery without the use of secret sci-fi medicine; and there's Project Manhigh and Project Excelsior. 

The two tricks are:

1) that reentry doesn't cause superheating of the initial velocity isn't that high 
2) that falling through an atmosphere has a terminal velocity

That said, am I claiming that the manner of Shep's death in the prologue of ME2 is anything but el-cheapo cimematastic shockitude?   No, not really. 


I want a link to where people survive a fall from 10,000 feet, before I trust that. And if it's stuff like a tornado, that hardly counts.



http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović

http://en.wikipedia....i/Nick_Alkemade

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

http://en.wikipedia....Juliane_Koepcke

Is that enough?

#4013
Killjoy Cutter

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dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html......=]


....
To add to this.http://en.wikipedia....ind#Atmospheres

Atmospheres
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.
Venus,
the nearest and most similar planet to Earth in our Solar System, has
an atmosphere 100 times denser than our own. Modern space probes have
discovered a comet-like tail that extends to the orbit of the Earth.[33]
Earth itself is largely protected from the solar wind by its magnetic field, which deflects most of the charged particles; however some of the charged particles are trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
A smaller number of particles from the solar wind manage to travel, as
though on an electromagnetic energy transmission line, to the Earth's
upper atmosphere and ionosphere
in the auroral zones. The only time the solar wind is observable on the
Earth is when it is strong enough to produce phenomena such as the aurora and geomagnetic storms. Bright auroras strongly heat the ionosphere, causing its plasma to expand into the magnetosphere, increasing the size of the plasma geosphere, and causing escape of atmospheric matter into the solar wind. geomagnetic storms
result when the pressure of plasmas contained inside the magnetosphere
is sufficiently large to inflate and thereby distort the geomagnetic
field.
Mars is
larger than Mercury and four times farther from the Sun, and yet even
here it is thought that the solar wind has stripped away up to a third
of its original atmosphere, leaving a layer 1/100th as dense as the
Earth's. It is believed the mechanism for this atmospheric stripping is
gas being caught in bubbles of magnetic field, which are ripped off by
solar winds



Note the word "STRIPPING" used multiple times.  Not heating, making more dense, STRIPPING. 

You've just posted a bunch of links and text that show exactly where you were wrong.

I think you need to read it again...

Spoiler



*sigh* 


1)  What you think is in there, isn't in there, and if you actually knew what you were looking for, you'd know it's not there. 

2)  Where did I say that Haestrom would be stripped of atmosphere?  You're the one who made the rediculous claim that particle radiation would cause the atmosphere to become like that of Venus!  I only noted that particle radiation has the opposite effect on atmospheres to refute your nonsense! 

3)  "magneticsphere"?  "presser"?

Just stop, you're embarasing yourself. 


(PS, does "spoiler" not work on these boards?  I'm trying to shrink this down for everyone else's sanity.)

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:32 .


#4014
100k

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Exceedingly impressive, but...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović


Cushioned by being caught on the wing -- abeit with a dead crew mate on top of her. Dunno if his body cushioned her as well, but still.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Nick_Alkemade


Cushioned by falling into a tree. Actually I think someone in my state survived a similar fall a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee


Cushioned by glass. Still impressive to know that one might have a chance of survival if they fall through a sunroof though.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov


I think it implies that he hit a mountain at an angle, and rolled/fell the rest of the way down.

http://en.wikipedia....Juliane_Koepcke


Cushioned by the seat she was on. 

Is that enough?


I suppose it is possible that Shepard was also cushioned on the way down via deep snow, ice, or by being graphted to the falling SR1-- actually, I mentioned this before. 

So...I'm not sure. It still seems unlikely that any of those things happened, and he was left down there shattered internally, in a hostile atmosphere for a month. But I guess it's possible.

#4015
Killjoy Cutter

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100k wrote...

Exceedingly impressive, but...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović


Cushioned by being caught on the wing -- abeit with a dead crew mate on top of her. Dunno if his body cushioned her as well, but still.


http://en.wikipedia....i/Nick_Alkemade

Cushioned by falling into a tree. Actually I think someone in my state survived a similar fall a few years ago.


http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee

Cushioned by glass. Still impressive to know that one might have a chance of survival if they fall through a sunroof though.


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

I think it implies that he hit a mountain at an angle, and rolled/fell the rest of the way down.


http://en.wikipedia....Juliane_Koepcke

Cushioned by the seat she was on. 


Is that enough?

I suppose it is possible that Shepard was also cushioned on the way down via deep snow, ice, or by being graphted to the falling SR1-- actually, I mentioned this before. 

So...I'm not sure. It still seems unlikely that any of those things happened, and he was left down there shattered internally, in a hostile atmosphere for a month. But I guess it's possible.



Obviously, it's stupendously unlikely, and the whole thing could have been written in a far less convoluted manner that involved a far lower "suspended disbelief state".

It's just not impossible to survive a fall from great heights.  And on a world with an atmosphere, there's a height beyond which falling from any higher makes no difference in the impact velocity. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:34 .


#4016
In Exile

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Are people writing about all the BS science in ME? God, after all the "**** you biology!" from ME1, people still take ME science seriously?

Modifié par In Exile, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:36 .


#4017
dreman9999

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

**facepalm**

I didn't say that Haestrom should have lost its atmosphere.  I said that bombardment by particle radiation doesn't make an atmosphere dense and hot. 


And... Haestrom was IN the star?  What are you talking about? 

*Looks at Venus and Earths weather system.*
Yes, it does. The reason why our weather system work the way it does is bacause of radiation. Radiation charges particles, charged particle causes heat. All I'm sayindg is an evironment super  charged with radiation the sun gives off, including partical radiation, would make it like Venus. Haelstrom still has protection that makes sure it dd not happen yet.
As for what a said about Haestrom...I ment near a  super heated star.


Go find an actual cite, a reputable reference, to particle radiation causing an an atmosphere to become thicker and hotter, in the manner you're describing.  Go on, find one. 

Sheesh.

http://en.rian.ru/an...8/81541029.html......=]


....
To add to this.http://en.wikipedia....ind#Atmospheres

Atmospheres
The solar wind affects the other incoming cosmic rays
interacting with the atmosphere of planets. Moreover, planets with a
weak or non-existent magnetosphere are subject to atmospheric stripping
by the solar wind.
Venus,
the nearest and most similar planet to Earth in our Solar System, has
an atmosphere 100 times denser than our own. Modern space probes have
discovered a comet-like tail that extends to the orbit of the Earth.[33]
Earth itself is largely protected from the solar wind by its magnetic field, which deflects most of the charged particles; however some of the charged particles are trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
A smaller number of particles from the solar wind manage to travel, as
though on an electromagnetic energy transmission line, to the Earth's
upper atmosphere and ionosphere
in the auroral zones. The only time the solar wind is observable on the
Earth is when it is strong enough to produce phenomena such as the aurora and geomagnetic storms. Bright auroras strongly heat the ionosphere, causing its plasma to expand into the magnetosphere, increasing the size of the plasma geosphere, and causing escape of atmospheric matter into the solar wind. geomagnetic storms
result when the pressure of plasmas contained inside the magnetosphere
is sufficiently large to inflate and thereby distort the geomagnetic
field.
Mars is
larger than Mercury and four times farther from the Sun, and yet even
here it is thought that the solar wind has stripped away up to a third
of its original atmosphere, leaving a layer 1/100th as dense as the
Earth's. It is believed the mechanism for this atmospheric stripping is
gas being caught in bubbles of magnetic field, which are ripped off by
solar winds



Note the word "STRIPPING" used multiple times.  Not heating, making more dense, STRIPPING. 

You've just posted a bunch of links and text that show exactly where you were wrong.

I think you need to read it again...

Spoiler



*sigh* 


1)  What you think is in there, isn't in there, and if you actually knew what you were looking for, you'd know it's not there. 
2)  Where did I say that Haestrom would be stripped of atmosphere?  You're the one who made the rediculous claim that particle radiation would cause the atmosphere to become like that of Venus!  I only noted that particle radiation has the opposite effect on atmospheres to refute your nonsense! 
3)  "magneticsphere"?  "presser"?

Just stop, you're embarasing yourself. 


(PS, does "spoiler" not work on these boards?  I'm trying to shrink this down for every else's sanity.)

The reason I made the claim that practical radiation would make it like venus is because practical radiation made Venus the way it is..... Are you saying that Venus lack of magnetosphere did not make it into a heavy atmosphric presser cooker planet? If so then it's clear that you don't understand what your taking about. It lacks a magnetosphere, which protects from practical radiation .  Saying particale radiation does increase planets heat is like saying  ionizing radiaton does not generate heat, with is what paritcal radiation is onizing radiaton....
Just compare earth and venus, we have a magnetsphere , Venus does not. Look at our environment, look a venuses......Is it not clear what a planet without an magnetosphere would look like?
If Haelstrom is truely a planet heavilly effect by practical radiation, as you feel it should....It would be like Mercury.
My point is that Haestrom is not at the level to be heavily effected by practical radiation yet because it doesn't have a thin atmosphere. That takes millions of years to do, and it only been less than 300 years.

#4018
Fixers0

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In Exile wrote...

Are people writing about all the BS science in ME? God, after all the "**** you biology!" from ME1, people still take ME science seriously?


Actually Smudboy adresses this point in his first and last resonse in his response to Sqee's videos, here is the actual quote:

''In Regards to me using science or others trying to explain how things work with math, that's done because of the poor storytelling or the poor exposition of the fiction which happens to be science.
There is nothing stopping a writer explaining their fictional universe by fictional means the writer has to show or tell the audiance in the right way. Content is not as important as context, which is how you tell the story, meaning the details of science-fiction isn't as important how it is presented.
If it's not presented right, then we have to fallback on trying to make sense of what's going on, why characters are behaving a certain way, and why scenes are unfolding the way they are.
We use science, logic, math or even the codex because those particular kinds of issues are raised, not necessarily because they are about sciece, logic or math.



#4019
Guest_dutch646_*

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161 pages so far? Wow...

Modifié par dutch646, 12 septembre 2011 - 05:41 .


#4020
dreman9999

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Fixers0 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Are people writing about all the BS science in ME? God, after all the "**** you biology!" from ME1, people still take ME science seriously?


Actually Smudboy adresses this point in his first and last resonse in his response to Sqee's videos, here is the actual quote:

''In Regards to me using science or others trying to explain how things work with math, that's done because of the poor storytelling or the poor exposition of the fiction which happens to be science.
There is nothing stopping a writer explaining their fictional universe by fictional means the writer has to show or tell the audiance in the right way. Content is not as important as context, which is how you tell the story, meaning the details of science-fiction isn't as important how it is presented.
If it's not presented right, then we have to fallback on trying to make sense of what's going on, why characters are behaving a certain way, and why scenes are unfolding the way they are.
We use science, logic, math or even the codex because those particular kinds of issues are raised, not necessarily because they are about sciece, logic or math.



Which is why if you look in the lore, everything matches up with the plot.

#4021
Lotion Soronarr

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Obviously, it's stupendously unlikely, and the whole thing could have been written in a far less convoluted manner that involved a far lower "suspended disbelief state".

It's just not impossible to survive a fall from great heights.  And on a world with an atmosphere, there's a height beyond which falling from any higher makes no difference in the impact velocity. 


Yes it could have been wriotten far better.

And impossible it reamins. All of those peopel fell from lower heights than  Shep.
And because Shep died. He didn't surive the fall, so the point is moot.

#4022
Lotion Soronarr

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dreman9999 wrote...
Which is why if you look in the lore, everything matches up with the plot.


I think you'll find plenty of people will disagree with you here.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 septembre 2011 - 07:58 .


#4023
KotorEffect3

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Are people still going on about the death sequence? Give it a damn rest already

#4024
didymos1120

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 All of those peopel fell from lower heights than  Shep.


Which is irrelevant: Terminal. Velocity. 

#4025
Yvell

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On a somewhat related note: Enough with the quote pyramids! Please, just quote what you wish to reply to or what it is you are going to discuss. And if you're using the entire thing, just make a reference to it and be done with it.