6494 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

inb4 "retracting walls were never in the Codex whineb*tchmoan Normandy was retconned grumblegrumble conjecture = EVIL grumble mainstream gamers whinewhine"

Like it matters if it was a retcon anyway.  People don't seem to realize that "retcon" is just a descriptive term and doesn't automatically equate to "bad thing".

[The Interloper]

111987 wrote...


PLEASE STOP.

MAKE IT STOP!!! (Electronic growl)

didymos1120 wrote...

The camera in that image is inside the escape pod, looking out through its door.  The blurry blue thing is the airlock door, on the opposite side of the ship.

Ah.

Could have sworn Shepard threw him into the normal airlock. I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention.

[didymos1120]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@dreman9999

PLEASE STOP.

Thank you

Not untill that guy understands common science.

OK, look: other people are sick of the endless argument over this one point, and your habit of excessive pyramid quoting and wall'o'texting clutters up the thread. Exercise a bit of courtesy and take it to PMs if you really must continue.

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@dreman9999

PLEASE STOP.

Thank you

Not untill that guy understands common science.

OK, look: other people are sick of the endless argument over this one point, and your habit of excessive pyramid quoting and wall'o'texting clutters up the thread. Exercise a bit of courtesy and take it to PMs if you really must continue.

I keep it to a minimum. If it goes on, I'll just finishes it in a blog.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[Iakus]

The Interloper wrote...

I never disagreed that the situation could have been explained better. I'm saying that it's not improbable that in a sci-fi universe it's possible, with enough money and talent and time, to bring someone back to life. The nebulousness of sci-fi power is what you suspend your disbelief from-same thing with the scene where Darth Vader blocks lasers with his hand. Okay, that's like magic. Let's try again- the Death Star. A ship the size of a planet build by mortal men in 25 years. Twice. Oh, yeah. That wasn't crazy or anything, was it?

Same thing here-our own medical technology is pretty amazing already, so the idea isn't totally implausible given the context. To argue that even in sci-fi it shouldn't be physically possible is asinine. I've also seen people argue (more plausibly) that making resurrection a medical operation takes any tension out of it-there's no consequence for death. I can see where that's coming from but I'd argue that losing two years on both friends and enemies, ending up in the pocket of TIM, and having a massive project dedicated only to you (a project that's unlikely to happen again, especially in time to stop the reapers) is hardly "without consequence."

Something like this being plausible in a science fiction story is not the issue.  It's the plausibility of it in this science fiction universe that's questionable.  Because so far as we've seen and heard in two games now, this tech does not exist in this universe, save on one Cerberus facility for one person for no other reason than to not have the game come to an abrupt end.  It literally came from nowhere.  That by itself strains suspension of belief to the breaking point.

Re: Consequences.  Losing two years is not a consequence of death, it's a consequence of being gone.  One that could be duplicated by any idea you can think of that would seperate Shepard from galactic sosciety fro an extended period of time.  It may not be as "cinematic" or "awesome" of course...

The Lazarus Project being unique:  That's a consequence for Cerberus.  Not Shepard.  Unless his insurance doesn't cover it or something...

The problem with the scene is, as you say, despite the power of Sci-Fi aside there's no indication that such an operation has ever occured before in the ME universe. As it should be-Shepard should be a special, one time case. The problem is, as I already admitted, why only Shepard? Did cerberus develop/find experimental technology, as Squee suggested? That's quite plausible (I wouldn't be surprised that reaper/prothean tech is involved somehow) but the fact that Shepard never asks,"hey, how did you bring me back to life exactly?" is pretty strange.

"Sufficiently advanced alien tech" at this point is best-case scenerio. 

Again, maybe it's a poorly disguised plot twist (you're indoctrinated! Surprise!). Also yet again, I'm not saying the scene didn't have writing problems. But like most of ME2's problematic scenes, it all could have been solved with one or two lines of dialogue (smudboy himself admits it). For instance (on the reaper/prothean vein) add one audio log of miranda saying TIM gave them some amazing technology she's sure nobody else has, and a dialogue option of  Shepard asking about his resurrection and TIM giving an evasive answer.

Does...that make any sense? You did say that all you were asking for is more to go on, and I'm not saying you don't have just cause to demand that. But the act of scientific resurrection isn't out of place here-it just needs proper context. Which I agree ME2 didn't quite give.

It's amazing how many scenes have problems with the writing:

Shepard's death (if these quote pyramids are anything to go by)
The Lazarus Project
Horizon
Collector Ship
Shuttle ride to nowhere
Gray goo

But for this, yes it needs conxtet, because as I said this tech is a complete bolt from the blue.  This is not the Jetsons, where robotic arms dropping from the ceiling fix everything.  And yet that's essentially what we got.

[ThePwener]

This thread just won't roll over and die......

[111987]

@iakus

What about the Collector Ship is an example of bad writing?

[Iakus]

 wasn't there a lengthy debate not long ago about what a lame trap it was?

[111987]

iakus wrote...

 wasn't there a lengthy debate not long ago about what a lame trap it was?

There was, but I had hoped I had shown why the trap wasn't lame. People stopped responding to my posts so I assumed they had agreed with me.

Maybe not. Oh well. It's unlikely I'll change your mind about it anyways.

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

 wasn't there a lengthy debate not long ago about what a lame trap it was?

Did we make it clear it only fail because EDI was their, a reaper level AI  that the reapers didn't know or plan for?

[dreman9999]

The Lazarus ProjecT-Will be explained later.
Horizon-It's a mission to learn about the collectors
Collector Ship-It's  mission to get more info on the collectors, but it was a trap. Shepard only got out because the reapers did not know or prepared for EDI.
Shuttle ride to nowhere-It was made to happen on any of the missions on the 2nd cd.
Gray goo- It used to make reapers. It not uncommon for reapers to turn organic matter into a bio-synthetic fusion.(AKA, Husk.)

[Fixers0]

dreman9999 wrote...
The Lazarus ProjecT-Will be explained later.

Cheap fanboy excuse #252 "it will be explained later"

This is not an argument, and has nothing to do with the plot of ME2.

dreman9999 wrote...
Horizon-It's a mission to learn about the collectors

Really, what were our mission parameters? we're just going there because the collectors are, we don't do anything of value, we learn nothing, and are just running around on a planet fighting some bad guys, if you want to know how to write proper story missions, Look at Feros or novaria.

dreman9999 wrote...
Collector Ship-It's mission to get more info on the collectors,

Really, well great going there, blockhead Shepard really has putten a lot of effor into this mission, why not just start blowing it to pieces right there and then, i mean we allready got the IFF.

but it was a trap.

Yeah, that totally came out of nowhere,

Shepard only got out because the reapers did not know or prepared for EDI.

No, it was plot convienance, the collectors had so many oppertunities to succesfully trap us there.

dreman9999 wrote...
Shuttle ride to nowhere-It was made to happen on any of the missions on the 2nd cd.

Poor writing. Check.

dreman9999 wrote...
Gray goo- It used to make reapers.

A Metal Robot created out of biological slush that glows orange and is feed to a retared looking termintator reaper without any kind of exposition and poor presentation of the facts? o yes this really comes through/

[Nashiktal]

111987 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 wasn't there a lengthy debate not long ago about what a lame trap it was?

There was, but I had hoped I had shown why the trap wasn't lame. People stopped responding to my posts so I assumed they had agreed with me.

Maybe not. Oh well. It's unlikely I'll change your mind about it anyways.

Oh I had lots of problems with the collector ship ride. There was just so much ridiculousness in it. I'm not going to do an in depth explanation at this moment, but  the collectors are trying to ambush shep, and capture/kill/whatever their motivation is to shep... So they leave a hug cache of weapons, that includes but not limited to a tank busting sniper rifle, krogan shotgun, and LMG, plus a practical armory?

The collector ship mission just wasn't that solid for me.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I love reading Fixers0's posts, they're hilarious.

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The Lazarus ProjecT-Will be explained later.

Cheap fanboy excuse #252 "it will be explained later"

This is not an argument, and has nothing to do with the plot of ME2.

dreman9999 wrote...
Horizon-It's a mission to learn about the collectors

Really, what were our mission parameters? we're just going there because the collectors are, we don't do anything of value, we learn nothing, and are just running around on a planet fighting some bad guys, if you want to know how to write proper story missions, Look at Feros or novaria.

dreman9999 wrote...
Collector Ship-It's mission to get more info on the collectors,

Really, well great going there, blockhead Shepard really has putten a lot of effor into this mission, why not just start blowing it to pieces right there and then, i mean we allready got the IFF.

but it was a trap.

Yeah, that totally came out of nowhere,

Shepard only got out because the reapers did not know or prepared for EDI.

No, it was plot convienance, the collectors had so many oppertunities to succesfully trap us there.

dreman9999 wrote...
Shuttle ride to nowhere-It was made to happen on any of the missions on the 2nd cd.

Poor writing. Check.

dreman9999 wrote...
Gray goo- It used to make reapers.

A Metal Robot created out of biological slush that glows orange and is feed to a retared looking termintator reaper without any kind of exposition and poor presentation of the facts? o yes this really comes through/

1. It will be told. Nothing is stopping this from  happening. Whine if you want.

2.Yes, we are going there because the collector are there. How are we going to plan a suicide mission to their base if we know nothing about the collectors.

3.That was clearly not a plot conveniiance. If your saying the only reason it happen that way is because the writers made the plot go that way, then your forgeting this happen with any element in any story. A story can always be written anyway the writer want as long as they give a reason for it to happen. Their never just one way to write a story or plot unless it's a biography.

4. I'm just saying it was not a mission to no where. I never said it was good writing. I hate that part of the plot more then you do.

5. How could any other exposition or hint be made if no details could be found  about it beyond the omega relay. Also,it's a twist and theirare never any indications of a twist happening.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:04 .

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

111987 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 wasn't there a lengthy debate not long ago about what a lame trap it was?

There was, but I had hoped I had shown why the trap wasn't lame. People stopped responding to my posts so I assumed they had agreed with me.

Maybe not. Oh well. It's unlikely I'll change your mind about it anyways.

Oh I had lots of problems with the collector ship ride. There was just so much ridiculousness in it. I'm not going to do an in depth explanation at this moment, but  the collectors are trying to ambush shep, and capture/kill/whatever their motivation is to shep... So they leave a hug cache of weapons, that includes but not limited to a tank busting sniper rifle, krogan shotgun, and LMG, plus a practical armory?

The collector ship mission just wasn't that solid for me.

The supergun were out of place..... But that's the only thing. I can forgive that.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Because most traps are obvious.

[Sgt Stryker]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I love reading Fixers0's posts, they're hilarious.

They're even better after a few bottles of Killian's.

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

we're just going there because the collectors are, we don't do anything of value

Saving roughly 300,000 people isn't "anything of value"?

Modifié par didymos1120, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:15 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

didymos1120 wrote...
Saving roughly 300,000 people is "nothing of value"?

Still had to go around mining minerals to fund saving their pathetic colonies, so that wasn't the rewarding part of it for sure.

[Nashiktal]

You know, I realize there needs to be a gameplay/story segregation, but Bioware really needs to find something for all your squadmates to do during missions.

This isn't really ME2 specific, but Bioware games in general, kind of a tradition really. We gather a party of interesting NPC's that usually sit in your camp for most of the game until you replay it, then they finally find a use near the end of the game.

It would be great if Bioware could find some way to incorporate them into the game general.

[dreman9999]

ReconTeam wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Saving roughly 300,000 people is "nothing of value"?

Still had to go around mining minerals to fund saving their pathetic colonies, so that wasn't the rewarding part of it for sure.

So it's better to not go there and not get data about the collectors?

[ThePwener]

ReconTeam wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Saving roughly 300,000 people is "nothing of value"?

Still had to go around mining minerals to fund saving their pathetic colonies, so that wasn't the rewarding part of it for sure.

We've got some great Shepards here that's for sure.

[dreman9999]

ThePwener wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Saving roughly 300,000 people is "nothing of value"?

Still had to go around mining minerals to fund saving their pathetic colonies, so that wasn't the rewarding part of it for sure.

We've got some great Shepards here that's for sure.

My Shepard can punch through walls and fly through space!
Lighting can also shot out of his....You know...