6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
I smell elitism.  Lmao. Which on the other side will call you out I wonder. 

It's the truth, not elitism. If people are not intelligent they'll either have problems with it or just accept that they haven't understood it (but that it may make sense) and just move on to be entertained (edit: to be clear, many times I have done just this, sometimes I didn't get things at first but I am honest enough to concede that it may have flown above my head, so I avoid embarrassment by not pretending I know more than I actually do). Trouble only arises when people in the second group think they belong in the first and that they have found "something wrong" that is due entirely to their own lack of imagination.

"If people are intelligent".  "their own lack of imagination." 

Congrats, you're just the opposite side of the Smudboy coin, attributing any disagreement with your positions to personal faults on the part of those disagreeing. 

Sheesh. 

Sad. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 14 septembre 2011 - 01:15 .

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's too bad they couldn't have found a way to make the husks more clearly members of the Cerberus team through visual clues...

Except for the Dragon's Teeth with people impaled on them in the background of the altar, you mean?

**sigh**

It said:  "It's too bad they couldn't have found a way to make the husks more clearly members of the Cerberus team through visual clues..." 

Not:  "It's too bad they couldn't provide more clues that the husks were members of the Cerberus team." 


So no, don't try to tell me what I mean, please. 


I was suggesting an improvement of the atmospheric aspects of the mission by finding some way to make the husks visibly the members of the cerberus team.  Of course, this would have required something more than reusing the same two husk models over and over again...

I'm sorry ...the vids on the mission and the dragons teeth did not make it clear...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEB4OdJbFM&feature=player_profilepage#t=360s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEB4OdJbFM&feature=player_profilepage#t=537s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_EjXWAS8-0&feature=player_profilepage#t=146s

You're both completely missing the point. 

Yes, the teeth and the videologs make it informationally clear. 

I was suggesting that in terms of giving the atmosphere more immediate impact, there might have been a way to give both the people in the videologs and the husks you're fighting some indentifiable features that could carry over. 

You're so eager and desperate to defend the game that you lash out at mere suggestions and ideas. 

Something like having the husks in labcoats or something? That would be funny

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's too bad they couldn't have found a way to make the husks more clearly members of the Cerberus team through visual clues...

Except for the Dragon's Teeth with people impaled on them in the background of the altar, you mean?

**sigh**

It said:  "It's too bad they couldn't have found a way to make the husks more clearly members of the Cerberus team through visual clues..." 

Not:  "It's too bad they couldn't provide more clues that the husks were members of the Cerberus team." 


So no, don't try to tell me what I mean, please. 


I was suggesting an improvement of the atmospheric aspects of the mission by finding some way to make the husks visibly the members of the cerberus team.  Of course, this would have required something more than reusing the same two husk models over and over again...

I'm sorry ...the vids on the mission and the dragons teeth did not make it clear...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEB4OdJbFM&feature=player_profilepage#t=360s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEB4OdJbFM&feature=player_profilepage#t=537s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_EjXWAS8-0&feature=player_profilepage#t=146s

You're both completely missing the point. 

Yes, the teeth and the videologs make it informationally clear. 

I was suggesting that in terms of giving the atmosphere more immediate impact, there might have been a way to give both the people in the videologs and the husks you're fighting some indentifiable features that could carry over. 

You're so eager and desperate to defend the game that you lash out at mere suggestions and ideas. 

Tomato/toma-to. It's not really important to do that nor is a major complaint...Just a nickpick. It's not worse for not doing it.
Their is no reason to complain about it.

[Xeranx]

dreman9999 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

iakus wrote...

They didn't just rebuild a body and toss in some cybernetics for s&gs, they rebuilt a brain!  They reconstructed a mind and a personality with all it's complexity.

Here we go making **** up again. Smudboy apparently approves this kind of shenanigan...

Jacob says "meat and tubes."  I guess that means completely intact correct?

That also does not mean a mountion of Ashe.

Dreman coming from you...I just don't know. *shrugs*

Hey, I not saying they did not rebuild his brain.... That, I agree on.

My apologies.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...
Tomato/toma-to. It's not really important to do that nor is a major complaint...Just a nickpick. It's not worse for not doing it.
Their is no reason to complain about it.

See, you say "it's not worse for having not done it."


I say "It could have been better if they had done it." 


Guess which approach makes for a better result, regardless of what sort of sort of endeavor one has engaged in...

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 14 septembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[The Interloper]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
See, you say "it's not worse for having not done it."
I say "It could have been better if they had done it." 
Guess which approach makes for a better result, regardless of what sort of sort of endeavor one has engaged in...

I'm making some presumptions here about Dreman but maybe you should read it as "It's not bad for not having done it." Just saying. Word choice can make a big difference, even with ostensible synonyms.

Also, is it just me, or has this thread been unusually civil of late? It seems to have downgraded from gladiatorial combat to baroom scuffle.

No, wait. I probably just jinxed us.

Modifié par The Interloper, 14 septembre 2011 - 02:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arkitekt wrote...

Until you find me an actual quote from the game or any lore that Shepard's brain had to be rebuilt, stop making **** up. It's already bad as it is to hear convoluted arguments. Meat and tubes... sigh... seriously? Is that your idea of an argument?

Sheps brain has been rotting for a month.
Waht more do you need?

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
1. They go in to gather data. Teh whole point of the trap is to lure Sheppard knowing what he wants. It's stupid to assume the enemy who infiltrates to gather data won't try to do it, or won't have any measn to do it.

2. From another terminal?... Who said the entire ship only has one terminal to begin with?

3. A series of chest-high wall of steel. Again, if you're trying to set u pa trap, why not do it properly?
In a room with no cover. I na room that's not vital. In a room where you cna use your overwhelming numbers.

4. Maybe a hacker or a tech-expert? They did gather a team of specialists after all.

You miss the point. The poitn isn't "once they get into Room A, they cannot escape"
The point is "why allow them into room A in the first place when you can make room B an even better trap?"

1.My point that Shepard would not be able to desiffer an alien code he neverseen before. The only way to do that  is with binary and that takes time.
2.That's my point, they are in their system, they knowit better then anyother person and if a regular person tryed to hack it, they would of been found and booted out of it.
3.You really thing that would stop Shepard?
4. A hacker would not have enough time to learn decode an alien system. That would take way too long.

1. Gather data. Store or transmit. Analyze later. Shep doesn't need to analiyze data on the stop. He just need to get it.

2. Specialist. Sent specificly to steal data from you. You don't let them near your terminals at all. That's the only sane approach. No sane person takes unnecessary risks.
That's like letting an assasin into the presidents office because you're sure you'll get him there and he won't kill the president. It's retarded.

3. Yes. Use your advantages and make full use of enemy disadvantages. The Collector trap is stupid - there are no precautions, no backup and too many unnecessary risks.

4. Magic Omni-Tools.....

[bduff4545]

I wonder when smudboy's ME2 parody will come out. If it's anything like his arrival review I think it will be a huge facepalm.

[Iakus]

bduff4545 wrote...

I wonder when smudboy's ME2 parody will come out. If it's anything like his arrival review I think it will be a huge facepalm.

Given it will almost certainly be a cooperative effort with others, I'm curious too.  Though I'm more neutral in how I think it will be executed, since I realy have no idea what to expect.

[Arkitekt]

Xeranx wrote...

Jacob: "I'm not doctor but it was bad.  When I first saw you, you were nothing but meat and tubes."

I can't take people seriously if they come here using banter speech by "non-doctors" comrades of arms as evidence that some medical detail was indeed what happened. How can you tell from that joyful remark that Shepard's brain had to be "rebuilt" is beyond me.

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Congrats, you're just the opposite side of the Smudboy coin, attributing any disagreement with your positions to personal faults on the part of those disagreeing.

You missed the point. Lack of exposure is no plot hole. Smudboy et al think that it is, but by thinking so they only expose their own lack of imagination. I disagree with many people for many different reasons, but this case is very specific.

[Arkitekt]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Until you find me an actual quote from the game or any lore that Shepard's brain had to be rebuilt, stop making **** up. It's already bad as it is to hear convoluted arguments. Meat and tubes... sigh... seriously? Is that your idea of an argument?

Sheps brain has been rotting for a month.
Waht more do you need?

Another one making **** up.

If a brain is left without oxygen (and any other "health care" provided by their own live bodies) it usually rots. That's obviously true. What is neither obvious nor shown by anyone here is that Shepard's brain "has been rotting for a month". To do so, you have to show that natural phenomena hasn't preserved the brain for that period of time. I have already mentioned that he may have fallen into an ice cap. If Shepard's brain was slowly buried by deep cold snow it could well have been preserved for much more than a month.

This possibility is a no brainer, and there are plenty of more possibilities of this kind, since we are dealing with sci-fi scenarios where the imagination is the limit.

[Arkitekt]

iakus wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I wonder when smudboy's ME2 parody will come out. If it's anything like his arrival review I think it will be a huge facepalm.

Given it will almost certainly be a cooperative effort with others, I'm curious too.  Though I'm more neutral in how I think it will be executed, since I realy have no idea what to expect.

I'm also slightly curious and bemused without any expectations of any kind. I just hope it isn't cringeworthy.

[100k]

Arkitekt wrote...
If a brain is left without oxygen (and any other "health care" provided by their own live bodies) it usually rots. That's obviously true. What is neither obvious nor shown by anyone here is that Shepard's brain "has been rotting for a month". To do so, you have to show that natural phenomena hasn't preserved the brain for that period of time. I have already mentioned that he may have fallen into an ice cap. If Shepard's brain was slowly buried by deep cold snow it could well have been preserved for much more than a month.

This possibility is a no brainer, and there are plenty of more possibilities of this kind, since we are dealing with sci-fi scenarios where the imagination is the limit.

For once I agree with you. It's very possible that his brain remained intact.

[Sgt Stryker]

Arkitekt wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Until you find me an actual quote from the game or any lore that Shepard's brain had to be rebuilt, stop making **** up. It's already bad as it is to hear convoluted arguments. Meat and tubes... sigh... seriously? Is that your idea of an argument?

Sheps brain has been rotting for a month.
Waht more do you need?

Another one making **** up.

If a brain is left without oxygen (and any other "health care" provided by their own live bodies) it usually rots. That's obviously true. What is neither obvious nor shown by anyone here is that Shepard's brain "has been rotting for a month". To do so, you have to show that natural phenomena hasn't preserved the brain for that period of time. I have already mentioned that he may have fallen into an ice cap. If Shepard's brain was slowly buried by deep cold snow it could well have been preserved for much more than a month.

This possibility is a no brainer, and there are plenty of more possibilities of this kind, since we are dealing with sci-fi scenarios where the imagination is the limit.

It would be great if at some point in ME3, we get an "extended" version of the scene showing Shepard's fall, ala Lord of the Rings, and this gets included in that scene.

[Arkitekt]

The only problem with that is that they might **** it up and actually describe an impossible sequence of events. There are obvious advantages to not expose things that can go wrong if you aren't careful...

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
1. They go in to gather data. Teh whole point of the trap is to lure Sheppard knowing what he wants. It's stupid to assume the enemy who infiltrates to gather data won't try to do it, or won't have any measn to do it.

2. From another terminal?... Who said the entire ship only has one terminal to begin with?

3. A series of chest-high wall of steel. Again, if you're trying to set u pa trap, why not do it properly?
In a room with no cover. I na room that's not vital. In a room where you cna use your overwhelming numbers.

4. Maybe a hacker or a tech-expert? They did gather a team of specialists after all.

You miss the point. The poitn isn't "once they get into Room A, they cannot escape"
The point is "why allow them into room A in the first place when you can make room B an even better trap?"

1.My point that Shepard would not be able to desiffer an alien code he neverseen before. The only way to do that  is with binary and that takes time.
2.That's my point, they are in their system, they knowit better then anyother person and if a regular person tryed to hack it, they would of been found and booted out of it.
3.You really thing that would stop Shepard?
4. A hacker would not have enough time to learn decode an alien system. That would take way too long.

1. Gather data. Store or transmit. Analyze later. Shep doesn't need to analiyze data on the stop. He just need to get it.

2. Specialist. Sent specificly to steal data from you. You don't let them near your terminals at all. That's the only sane approach. No sane person takes unnecessary risks.
That's like letting an assasin into the presidents office because you're sure you'll get him there and he won't kill the president. It's retarded.

3. Yes. Use your advantages and make full use of enemy disadvantages. The Collector trap is stupid - there are no precautions, no backup and too many unnecessary risks.

4. Magic Omni-Tools.....

1..... So your telling me that the way Shepard is going to get off that platform is with data he has to decode later?
You not understanding. Shepard is set on a platform that asnend him in the air. The only way to get down is to fall off or hack it. And your telling he could just get the data he need to learn to decode the system syatem and learn it later? When is later? How is he going to get off the platform he needs to hack to get down if his learning how later.

2.Again, it's an unknown system and that takes time to learn and decode to binary. For a person, even with high hacking speeds, it would take them time to decode the system. They would be found and booted. EDI is a super AI, she can do it in seconds. That why she is on the ship...

3.The only reason why it fail was because of EDI, who they did not know about. Think about how would it would of gone if EDI was not there and you'll see that the trap had little risk. With out EDI there, Shepard would not be able to get off the first flouting platform.
4. Or a super AI on that omni-tool...

[Soul Cool]

100k wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
If a brain is left without oxygen (and any other "health care" provided by their own live bodies) it usually rots. That's obviously true. What is neither obvious nor shown by anyone here is that Shepard's brain "has been rotting for a month". To do so, you have to show that natural phenomena hasn't preserved the brain for that period of time. I have already mentioned that he may have fallen into an ice cap. If Shepard's brain was slowly buried by deep cold snow it could well have been preserved for much more than a month.

This possibility is a no brainer, and there are plenty of more possibilities of this kind, since we are dealing with sci-fi scenarios where the imagination is the limit.

For once I agree with you. It's very possible that his brain remained intact.

The only problem I have with this or any sort of supposition on the whole 'revival' process is that we have no idea what the planet was like that Sheperd 'fell' onto.

What was the atmosphere like? What impact would he suffer from landing on the ground at terminal velocity (Almost guaranteed due to the height he fell from, not that terminal velocity is necessarily an implication of death mind you.)? What geographic features did he encounter upon impact? Was the temperature high/low enough to induce any sort of fast/slow body time decay?

A huge list of unaswered questions that goes on and on, and the answers will probably never be provided. So speculation is both rampant and useless. But hey, we can be satisfied with it because BioWare left it at "A wizard did it", and that's fine.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 15 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[111987]

Soul Cool wrote...

100k wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
If a brain is left without oxygen (and any other "health care" provided by their own live bodies) it usually rots. That's obviously true. What is neither obvious nor shown by anyone here is that Shepard's brain "has been rotting for a month". To do so, you have to show that natural phenomena hasn't preserved the brain for that period of time. I have already mentioned that he may have fallen into an ice cap. If Shepard's brain was slowly buried by deep cold snow it could well have been preserved for much more than a month.

This possibility is a no brainer, and there are plenty of more possibilities of this kind, since we are dealing with sci-fi scenarios where the imagination is the limit.

For once I agree with you. It's very possible that his brain remained intact.

The only problem I have with this or any sort of supposition on the whole 'revival' process is that we have no idea what the planet was like that Sheperd 'fell' onto.

What was the atmosphere like? What impact would he suffer from landing on the ground at terminal velocity (Almost guaranteed due to the height he fell from, not that terminal velocity is necessarily an implication of death mind you.)? What geographic features did he encounter upon impact? Was the temperature high/low enough to induce any sort of fast/slow body time decay?

A huge list of unaswered questions that goes on and on, and the answers will probably never be provided. So speculation is both rampant and useless. But hey, we can be satisfied with it because BioWare left it at "A wizard did it", and that's fine.

We actually do know a lot about the planet.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alchera

Hope this clears some things up for you

[Soul Cool]

111987 wrote...
We actually do know a lot about the planet.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alchera

Hope this clears some things up for you

Aw, see, that ruins it, then. 0.85g terminal velocity impact from inner space height would basically reduce everything in your body to paste. There would be no brain left to rebuild. Drag would slow you down some, but nowhere near enough to leave recognizable body pieces, much less something as fragile as your brain still intact.

And for people who are inevitably going to bring up "But it's crust isn't very dense/made up of dense material!", it really doesn't matter. Water isn't very dense, but you hit it at 300+ feet/second, and you're going to be pretty much squished into paste.

So, yeah, just leave it at 'A Wizard SCIENTIST rebuilt Sheperd'   and everyone can be fine because it doesn't really matter all that much.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 15 septembre 2011 - 05:41 .

[didymos1120]

Soul Cool wrote...

Aw, see, that ruins it, then. 0.85g terminal velocity impact from inner space height would basically reduce everything in your body to paste.

Terminal velocity doesn't work that way. It would continually decrease as Shep went further into the atmosphere.  It's also dependent on the object's cross section as it falls. If you use the skydiver's head-down orientation, you'll have a somewhat higher terminal velocity that someone falling with their body parallel to the ground.  And people have survived terminal velocity falls in real life, with rather minor injuries all things considered.  It's rare, but it happens.  One guy's fall was broken by a glass roof.

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:00 .

[Soul Cool]

didymos1120 wrote...
Terminal velocity doesn't work that way.

You know what I meant.

It would continually decrease as Shep went further into the atmosphere.

Yes, it's called drag. I know.

It's also dependent on the object's cross section as it falls.

Yes, drag coefficient. I know. This is not a complicated thing.

If you use the skydiver's head-down orientation, you'll have a somewhat higher terminal velocity that someone falling with their body parallel to the ground.

As is pretty evident from the death video, the fall is not controlled, and Sheperd is either unconscious or near-unconscious. We can pretty safely assume that Sheperd does not have time to adjust his falling posture.

And people have survived terminal velocity falls in real life.  It's rare, but it happens.

Not from inner space.

[aznricepuff]

Soul Cool wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Terminal velocity doesn't work that way.

You know what I meant.

It would continually decrease as Shep went further into the atmosphere.

Yes, it's called drag. I know.

It's also dependent on the object's cross section as it falls.

Yes, drag coefficient. I know. This is not a complicated thing.

If you use the skydiver's head-down orientation, you'll have a somewhat higher terminal velocity that someone falling with their body parallel to the ground.

As is pretty evident from the death video, the fall is not controlled, and Sheperd is either unconscious or near-unconscious. We can pretty safely assume that Sheperd does not have time to adjust his falling posture.

And people have survived terminal velocity falls in real life.  It's rare, but it happens.

Not from inner space.

Whether you're falling from 20000 feet or 200 miles, it doesn't matter. You will reach terminal velocity and hit the ground at more or less the same speed. Which for a planet with gravity and atmosphere like alchera's, is not enough to completely destroy a human body. In fact it would be mostly intact (broken bones, damaged organs, but nothing that surgery/cybernetics couldn't reasonably repair).

The more iffy issue is the problem of Shepard's body burning up once it enters alchera's atmosphere. If he was going fast enough, he would have been vaporized, no doubt about it. So the question is: how fast was he already falling when he hit the atmosphere?

[Soul Cool]

aznricepuff wrote...
Whether you're falling from 20000 feet or 200 miles, it doesn't matter. You will reach terminal velocity and hit the ground at more or less the same speed. Which for a planet with gravity and atmosphere like alchera's, is not enough to completely destroy a human body. In fact it would be mostly intact (broken bones, damaged organs, but nothing that surgery/cybernetics couldn't reasonably repair).

Sorry, it's late. I'm not being very clear on what I mean. College does terrible things to the mind during mid-terms.

The more iffy issue is the problem of Shepard's body burning up once it enters alchera's atmosphere. If he was going fast enough, he would have been vaporized, no doubt about it. So the question is: how fast was he already falling when he hit the atmosphere?

This is what I mean.