6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Mass Effect comes across as science fiction. 

Mass Effect 2 gets a serious injection of "eh, who gives a damn, we'll go science fantasy."

It's more like you have to use what is stated in ME1 to understand the science of ME2. You also have to understand science in general.

And never mind that ME2 randomly ignores or $#!+cans whatever speculative science from ME1 happens to get in the way of whatever the writers or animators of a particular scene thought would be kewl. 

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

Sure, sure, whatever. 

[Iakus]

[quote]Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...


You can only suspend your disbelief if there's something you can hang your disbelief on.  Sure people can be revived through science in other stories.  What makes it possible in this one?

[/quote]Reaper tech.
[/quote]

Where?

It's an idea.  One that's got support because frankly anything else would be so fantastical as to be more appropriate in Dragon Age (except in DA, ressurection really is impossible)  Nevertheless, there's nothing in ME2 that says Reaper tech is involved.  It's that lack of scientific, psuedoscientific, or science fantasy answers or even any curiosity about it on the part of any of the games' characters that's the problem.

 That and the "Just go with it, it's Awesome!" resonses to the question.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

Modifié par iakus, 15 septembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

Jacks wasit belt. For Miranda, it's hersuit... Think light armor in ME1...http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Light_armor#Light_Armor

[111987]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

See, this is an example of pointless nit-picking. Your other cricisms have been pretty valid. Maybe you're just kidding though, or making a point so if that's the case, just ignore me

[Sgt Stryker]

dreman9999 wrote...
I would not say it's highly unlike circumstances....It was clearly planned. Why did the collectors draw shepard to this planet? Why did the collector ensure the ship crashed on the dark side of the planet in sub- orbit? The planet surface is carbon unpressurized with water ice and snow....that's graphite mix with snow. That not going to be a super hard impact based on the  nature of graphite. And last time I checked heated water ice turns to water and water flows to the lowest point on any planets gravity close to 1G....Add on the planet average temp at -22 Celsius and Shepard land on the dark part of the planet, puts his body at a super cold environment.....And the body it covered in graphite and ice is super cold  levels flash freezing his body.
This was not a coincidence, it was clearly a plan of the reapers to have him land on a planet which impact would submerge him in the ground and flash freeze his body turning it to a frozen fossil.

...So the Reapers used a Rube Goldberg machine to try and capture Shepard?

I'm sorry, but there are WAY too many unknowns and unpredictable (even for the Reapers) possibilities for a plan like that to work. For instance, there was no way for them to predict what sort of crazy maneuvers Joker would do once the Normandy became aware that they were under fire (and the Normandy was maneuvering, for a while).

Here's another potential monkey wrench in this plan: what if Joker actually followed his CO's orders and got into an escape pod? What if Shep also got into an escape pod?

There is absolutely no way that the Collectors could have planned this out. When you make a plan, you try to minimize the potential failure routes of that plan, NOT maximize them.

[dreman9999]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...


You can only suspend your disbelief if there's something you can hang your disbelief on.  Sure people can be revived through science in other stories.  What makes it possible in this one?

[/quote]Reaper tech.
[/quote]

Where?

It's an idea.  One that's got support because frankly anything else would be so fantastical as to be more appropriate in Dragon Age (except in DA, ressurection really is impossible)  Nevertheless, there's nothing in ME2 that says Reaper tech is involved.  It's that lack of scientific, psuedoscientific, or science fantasy answers or even any curiosity about it on the part of any of the games' characters that's the problem.

 That and the "Just go with it, it's Awesome!" resonses to the question.

[/quote]
.....
Someone needs to replay ME1 again...

http://masseffect.wi...ony_of_the_Dead

Cerberus has been playing with reaper tech for more than 2 years now.

[dreman9999]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I would not say it's highly unlike circumstances....It was clearly planned. Why did the collectors draw shepard to this planet? Why did the collector ensure the ship crashed on the dark side of the planet in sub- orbit? The planet surface is carbon unpressurized with water ice and snow....that's graphite mix with snow. That not going to be a super hard impact based on the  nature of graphite. And last time I checked heated water ice turns to water and water flows to the lowest point on any planets gravity close to 1G....Add on the planet average temp at -22 Celsius and Shepard land on the dark part of the planet, puts his body at a super cold environment.....And the body it covered in graphite and ice is super cold  levels flash freezing his body.
This was not a coincidence, it was clearly a plan of the reapers to have him land on a planet which impact would submerge him in the ground and flash freeze his body turning it to a frozen fossil.

...So the Reapers used a Rube Goldberg machine to try and capture Shepard?

I'm sorry, but there are WAY too many unknowns and unpredictable (even for the Reapers) possibilities for a plan like that to work. For instance, there was no way for them to predict what sort of crazy maneuvers Joker would do once the Normandy became aware that they were under fire (and the Normandy was maneuvering, for a while).

Here's another potential monkey wrench in this plan: what if Joker actually followed his CO's orders and got into an escape pod? What if Shep also got into an escape pod?

There is absolutely no way that the Collectors could have planned this out. When you make a plan, you try to minimize the potential failure routes of that plan, NOT maximize them.

1. The gravitational force would pull the ship it the planet. Common phyics at work.
2.They would try again another time.

The failure rate is minimalised. Their's only one case of failure, Shepard getting to a pod in time. That minimal.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 septembre 2011 - 08:50 .

[Sgt Stryker]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

Maybe Jack didn't use medigel "in reality?" (Gameplay =/= in-universe reality; it's just a close approximation) It would be appropriate for her don't-give-a-f*** attitude. Still, an awesome idea would have been for Jack to scrounge up an old set of Cerberus light armor, and deface the living **** out of it with obscenities.

As for Miranda, I no longer use her on missions without the AAP2 armor for exactly that reason (and the lack of kinetic barriers - Miranda uses "shields", not a barrier).

[dreman9999]

Montezuma IV wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Mass Effect comes across as science fiction. 

Mass Effect 2 gets a serious injection of "eh, who gives a damn, we'll go science fantasy."

It's more like you have to use what is stated in ME1 to understand the science of ME2. You also have to understand science in general.

And never mind that ME2 randomly ignores or $#!+cans whatever speculative science from ME1 happens to get in the way of whatever the writers or animators of a particular scene thought would be kewl. 

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I don't want to get drawn into this thread but I'm pretty sure there have been. People have constantly stated some across the forums, so I really don't want to bother with collecting them. I think the thermal clips were one example.

Try again. The thermal clips are explained. If you think they are a retcon. then you done understand what a retcon is.It a change in the story or plot that is unexplain and everyone pretend it alway was that way before. The change to thermal clipsis explained in the story as well as everything else.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Mass Effect comes across as science fiction. 

Mass Effect 2 gets a serious injection of "eh, who gives a damn, we'll go science fantasy."

It's more like you have to use what is stated in ME1 to understand the science of ME2. You also have to understand science in general.

And never mind that ME2 randomly ignores or $#!+cans whatever speculative science from ME1 happens to get in the way of whatever the writers or animators of a particular scene thought would be kewl. 

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

Sure, sure, whatever. 

Thanls for that list... I don't know how I'm every going to get through it.

[Soul Cool]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. The gravitational force would pull the ship it the planet. Common phyics at work.
2.They would try again another time.

The failure rate is minimalised. Their's only one case of failure, Shepard getting to a pod in time. That minimal.

See, I have no idea how any person can rationally believe that anything is capable of a xanatos gambit like that. The only being or thing that could make a plan like that and have a high chance of suceeding is some sort of god, and the Reapers are not god.

The amount of uncontrollable factors in that plan are so unreasonably impossible that you'd basically have to take suspension of disbelief to mind-shattering levels to allow for that sort of Machiavellian planning.

[Someone With Mass]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Like what? Nothing has been conridicted from ME1 in ME2.

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

Or how they work for Legion.

[Sgt Stryker]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The gravitational force would pull the ship it the planet. Common phyics at work.
2.They would try again another time.

The failure rate is minimalised. Their's only one case of failure, Shepard getting to a pod in time. That minimal.

You don't get it. If they wanted to take Shepard alive, they do not need to come up with some complicated Rube Goldberg plan consisting of:
1. Waiting for the Normandy to arrive close enough to Alchera to still be affected by its gravitational pull.
2. Causing critical damage to the Normandy so that the crew is forced to abandon ship.
3. Banking on the fact that the ship's pilot will refuse to abandon ship, have to be dragged into a pod by Shepard, then firing again at just the right time and place to force Shepard out of the ship and into space.
4. Waiting for Shepard to fall into the atmosphere of Alchera (without burning up!) and land in just the right spot to ensure good preservation (on an icy slope, at or below terminal velocity) and get encased in the ice.
5. Mysteriously disappear and not bother to recover Shepard (!)
6. Instead hire the Shadow Broker to recover Shepard rather than do it yourself.
7. Have it all blow up in your face anyway, when Liara gets Shepard instead and hands the body to Cerberus.

That would be just comical if that was their plan.

Here is what I would do if I was Harbinger, and I wanted Shepard:
1. Wait for the Normandy to arrive at Alchera, and stalk them until they either achieve a stable orbit or get far enough away from the planet's gravity.
2. Fire a few well-placed shots at the engines, crippling them and ensuring the Normandy can't maneuver.
3. Send in boarding parties (same way they did with the SR2)
4. Inject seeker swarms into the ship to disable all human crew members; eliminate non-humans by just shooting them.
5. Recover not just Shepard, but the Normandy as well as it's crew.
6. PROFIT!!!

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 15 septembre 2011 - 09:07 .

[dreman9999]

Soul Cool wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. The gravitational force would pull the ship it the planet. Common phyics at work.
2.They would try again another time.

The failure rate is minimalised. Their's only one case of failure, Shepard getting to a pod in time. That minimal.

See, I have no idea how any person can rationally believe that anything is capable of a xanatos gambit like that. The only being or thing that could make a plan like that and have a high chance of suceeding is some sort of god, and the Reapers are not god.

The amount of uncontrollable factors in that plan are so unreasonably impossible that you'd basically have to take suspension of disbelief to mind-shattering levels to allow for that sort of Machiavellian planning.

What other uncontrolble factor would their be? The ship is in the gravitational pull of the planet and last time I checked,  an object in motion stays in motion untill  it crosses an equal or opposite force. They cut the ships  high motion in a planets gravitational pull, what else would it do but fall into the planet.
As for the esape pods. That was the only lose end.  If failed they would just try again. But that's not the issues.  The fact remains that it worked...to an extent.

[Iakus]

[quote]111987 wrote...

I for one am curious as to where Jack's megigel dispensers are.

Or Miranda's for that matter

[/quote]

See, this is an example of pointless nit-picking. Your other cricisms have been pretty valid. Maybe you're just kidding though, or making a point so if that's the case, just ignore me

[/quote]

Half-kidding.  A comment about how stupid so many of the outfits in ME2 looked for the sake of being "iconic" or "bad****. " At the expense of looking practical.  Armor is supposed to do so much more than stop bullets.

[quote] Sgt Stryker wrote...

Maybe Jack didn't use medigel "in reality?" (Gameplay =/= in-universe reality; it's just a close approximation) It would be appropriate for her don't-give-a-f*** attitude. Still, an awesome idea would have been for Jack to scrounge up an old set of Cerberus light armor, and deface the living **** out of it with obscenities.

As for Miranda, I no longer use her on missions without the AAP2 armor for exactly that reason (and the lack of kinetic barriers - Miranda uses "shields", not a barrier).[/quote]

RE:  Jack  I'v e always thought the same thing.  Defaced Cerberus armor.

RE:  Miranda:  likewise.

[Soul Cool]

dreman9999 wrote...
What other uncontrolble factor would their be? The ship is in the gravitational pull of the planet and last time I checked,  an object in motion stays in motion untill  it crosses an equal or opposite force. They cut the ships  high motion in a planets gravitational pull, what else would it do but fall into the planet.

Escape velocity achieved by engaging in evasive manuevers/trying to get away from the enemy ambush, actually getting away, the ship exploding and immolating Sheperd's body, losing Sheper'ds body as it falls through the planet's atmosphere, just to name a few.

You're literally going with "A wizard made it so that my impossible plan could work", and that's perfectly okay. Don't try to rationalize it into something plausible, though, because it isn't.

As for the esape pods. That was the only lose end.  If failed they would just try again. But that's not the issues.  The fact remains that it worked...to an extent.

Except for another unplanned, uncontrollable factor that could not possibly have been predicted. (Interference from comrades.)

[dreman9999]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The gravitational force would pull the ship it the planet. Common phyics at work.
2.They would try again another time.

The failure rate is minimalised. Their's only one case of failure, Shepard getting to a pod in time. That minimal.

You don't get it. If they wanted to take Shepard alive, they do not need to come up with some complicated Rube Goldberg plan consisting of:
1. Waiting for the Normandy to arrive close enough to Alchera to still be affected by its gravitational pull.
2. Causing critical damage to the Normandy so that the crew is forced to abandon ship.
3. Banking on the fact that the ship's pilot will refuse to abandon ship, have to be dragged into a pod by Shepard, then firing again at just the right time and place to force Shepard out of the ship and into space.
4. Waiting for Shepard to fall into the atmosphere of Alchera (without burning up!) and land in just the right spot to ensure good preservation (on an icy slope, at or below terminal velocity) and get encased in the ice.
5. Mysteriously disappear and not bother to recover Shepard (!)
6. Instead hire the Shadow Broker to recover Shepard rather than do it yourself.
7. Have it all blow up in your face anyway, when Liara gets Shepard instead and hands the body to Cerberus.

That would be just comical if that was their plan.

Here is what I would do if I was Harbinger, and I wanted Shepard:
1. Wait for the Normandy to arrive at Alchera, and stalk them until they either achieve a stable orbit or get far enough away from the planet's gravity.
2. Fire a few well-placed shots at the engines, crippling them and ensuring the Normandy can't maneuver.
3. Send in boarding parties (same way they did with the SR2)
4. Inject seeker swarms into the ship to disable all human crew members; eliminate non-humans by just shooting them.
5. Recover not just Shepard, but the Normandy as well as it's crew.
6. PROFIT!!!

1. Shepard did fall in from a stable orbit...It was sub orbital.
2.They don't want to be caught in the planets gravitation pull as well, so boreding is a no-no.

So they can't get on the ship because of the planets gravitational pull...And Shepard did fall at a stable level because it was sub orbital...

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

.....
Someone needs to replay ME1 again...

http://masseffect.wi...ony_of_the_Dead

Cerberus has been playing with reaper tech for more than 2 years now.

Oh I intend to, but because I want to, not because I need to 

And again, where is Reaper tech mentioned in the Lazarus Project?  Cerberus has played around with thorian tissue, geth tech, biotics, Prothean artifacts, and stolen or tried to steal from who knows how many other races.  For all we know, the secret to reviving Shepard consists of regular injections of thresher maw venom:wizard:

Modifié par iakus, 15 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Sgt Stryker]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Shepard did fall in from a stable orbit...It was sub orbital.
2.They don't want to be caught in the planets gravitation pull as well, so boreding is a no-no.

So they can't get on the ship because of the planets gravitational pull...And Shepard did fall at a stable level because it was sub orbital...

Being in the gravity well of a planet does not prevent docking actions - as long as the object you're docking with is in a stable orbit, all you have to do is match your orbital trajectories. How do you think the Space Shuttle used to dock with the International Space Station?

[clipped_wolf]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Shepard did fall in from a stable orbit...It was sub orbital.
2.They don't want to be caught in the planets gravitation pull as well, so boreding is a no-no.

So they can't get on the ship because of the planets gravitational pull...And Shepard did fall at a stable level because it was sub orbital...

No, their ship can land planetside.  I think it is easier to just accept that the Collectors are one of the dumbest villians ever.  They rely on numbers and superior tech to hide the fact they are cowardly and incompetant.  No intelligence, replaced by tech!

[Sgt Stryker]

clipped_wolf wrote...

No, their ship can land planetside.  I think it is easier to just accept that the Collectors are one of the dumbest villians ever.  They rely on numbers and superior tech to hide the fact they are cowardly and incompetant.  No intelligence, replaced by tech!

Well, these are the same people who are using the same tubes that inject fluid into the Human Reaper, to suspend the Human Reaper against the force of gravity. On a space station. And they have the technology to manipulate artificial gravity at will. Why not just turn off the gravity in the construction chamber? Oh wait, that means no boss fight.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Shepards death and resurrection would seem much more plausable if he were killed in firefight with the Collectors for whatever the reason may be. Instead they go with the most over-the-top situation that could occur in order to have someone killed. Having him killed only to be revived in the next 10 minutes with no story value isn't stupid enough, they have to have him killed off in a way that would completely negate the possibility of resurrection. But thats ok as long as we have big explosions, lasers, and a dramatic transition to the title screen right?

As it stands, Shepard didn't even need to die anyway. Seriously, WTF Bioware?

Modifié par Notlikeyoucare, 15 septembre 2011 - 09:45 .

[KotorEffect3]

Ok so you people have bickered about and nitpicked the first few minutes of the game to death. Let's move on to the next 50 hours already.