6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...
He planned an attack,

Were was that plan if i may ask?

Someone With Mass wrote...
He tried to gain support from allies with mixed results

Such as? Did he contact the Alliance after finding the Derelict reaper?

Someone With Mass wrote..
And the player has a checklist clear as day on the galaxy map.

Collect a bunch of Redshirts and deal with their daddy issues,wow proffesional planning guys.

[Fixers0]

[quote]Sgt Stryker wrote...


I plea for consistancy in storytelling and plot, if a writer wanted change certain aspects of a universe then enough exposition and a proper explanation is needed.
[/quote]

You mean like the thermal clips? [/quote]

That's mainly gameplay though i would like to argue that gameplay should be explained at the point of which it directly breaks with lore.

And why would you want to take that huge step back, if you evolved to the point of having unlimted ammo, then why make yourselfs depandable on a new type ammo again?

[Mastone]

I haven't watched the ME 1 video's, but he is abslotutely right about ME 2 and I really hope that Bioware devs look at that youtube video's....and let us hope to the gods they make ME3 better

[Iakus]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

One would think that the Collectors would notice that among all these unarmed civilians, there was one Alliance marine/navy officer (in armor, mind you) and would prioritize grabbing him/her. One would also think that the Collectors would know who the VS was. Shep became a galactic celebrity overnight after the Battle of the Citadel, why would the same not apply to Shep's elite crew?

Especially since, if TIM's hypothosis was right, the whole reason why the Collectors hit Horizon next was to grab the VS.

Collector General:  Dangit I come all this way and I forgot my shopping list!
Harbringer:  I will deal with this personally
Collector General:  Oh, no! Not this time!  You always get the crunchy peanut butter.  I hate that stuff  Look, I'll remember sooner or later, we'll just gather them all together and I'll sort em out later.

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
And the player had no influence on the "Find Saren and stop him" plan either, which the entire first game was about.

First of all This has nothing with the quality of writing in Mass Effect 2.

Secondly, the first game had an entirely different type of story, which is while being far from perfect, much better constructed then the story in mass effect 2, more importantly where as in Mass effect you wer following certain leads and had a decent amount of freedom in your approach, in Mass Effect 2 90% of the games is focussed on preparing for a suicide mission, however the game neglects basic logic and goes along with the TIM's conveluted plan of recruiting a bunch of people while he sorts out all the important stuff so the players aren't "distracted" from shooting things.

As I suspected:  it's OK when ME1 doesn't allow the player any real control over the main plot, but it's a major flaw when ME2 does the exact same thing.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
He planned an attack,

Were was that plan if i may ask?

Someone With Mass wrote...
He tried to gain support from allies with mixed results

Such as? Did he contact the Alliance after finding the Derelict reaper?

Someone With Mass wrote..
And the player has a checklist clear as day on the galaxy map.

Collect a bunch of Redshirts and deal with their daddy issues,wow proffesional planning guys.

Answers are right in front of you, yet you refuse to acknowledge them and argues for the sake of arguing...

1. To locate the Collector stronghold and destroy it, crippling the Reapers' operations while preventing further attacks on human colonies.

2. I doubt Cerberus would let Shepard send a message that could undermine their operations.

Also, read the definition of "allies" and think for once.

Legion: You have pretty much a geth ambassador right there.

Mordin/Grunt: Can help you with the krogan genophage.

Tali: Can help you with getting the quarians on your side.

Anderson: Councilor/Admiral. He can help you with the Alliance forces.

Steven Hackett: This guy helped Shepard just as much as Anderson did, and can also be a powerful ally, as any high ranking officer within the Alliance military can be.

Liara: The Shadow Broker. Perhaps Cerberus' greatest rival when it comes to gathering information.

3. Red shirts? Yeah. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe it will become true if you whine enough. They were selected because they were the best TIM could find and because some of them could improve Shepard's work relations if he/she saw familiar faces.

Without them, Shepard is nothing.

[Iakus]

didymos1120 wrote...

As I suspected:  it's OK when ME1 doesn't allow the player any real control over the main plot, but it's a major flaw when ME2 does the exact same thing.

The first game had a main plot to follow.  The second meandered all over the place.  That's the flaw.

[Iakus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Answers are right in front of you, yet you refuse to acknowledge them and argues for the sake of arguing...

1. To locate the Collector stronghold and destroy it, crippling the Reapers' operations while preventing further attacks on human colonies.

2. I doubt Cerberus would let Shepard send a message that could undermine their operations.

Also, read the definition of "allies" and think for once.

Legion: You have pretty much a geth ambassador right there.

Mordin/Grunt: Can help you with the krogan genophage.

Tali: Can help you with getting the quarians on your side.

Anderson: Councilor/Admiral. He can help you with the Alliance forces.

Steven Hackett: This guy helped Shepard just as much as Anderson did, and can also be a powerful ally, as any high ranking officer within the Alliance military can be.

Liara: The Shadow Broker. Perhaps Cerberus' greatest rival when it comes to gathering information.

3. Red shirts? Yeah. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe it will become true if you whine enough. They were selected because they were the best TIM could find and because some of them could improve Shepard's work relations if he/she saw familiar faces.

Without them, Shepard is nothing.

And all of that is great for ME3.  But what does any of it have to do with ME2?

Modifié par iakus, 18 septembre 2011 - 06:27 .

[KotorEffect3]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I hope nobody drop's smugboy's name in a thread title in a long time, this monster is on pace to hit 200 pages.

And at least two of those pages will be your posts complaining about how many pages it has.

And that would still be only 1% of the thread's total posts.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...


Answers are right in front of you, yet you refuse to acknowledge them and argues for the sake of arguing...

1. To locate the Collector stronghold and destroy it, crippling the Reapers' operations while preventing further attacks on human colonies.

Tactical details? Strategical info? or anything on that matter, i was excepting it to be something more profound, this is not a plan, this is goal.

Someone With Mass wrote...
2. I doubt Cerberus would let Shepard send a message that could undermine their operations.

You can land you're ship at any time at the citadel and walk righ into the alliance embassy.

Someone With Mass wrote...
Also, read the definition of "allies" and think for once.

Legion: You have pretty much a geth ambassador right there.

Mordin/Grunt: Can help you with the krogan genophage.

Tali: Can help you with getting the quarians on your side.

Anderson: Councilor/Admiral. He can help you with the Alliance forces.

Steven Hackett: This guy helped Shepard just as much as Anderson did, and can also be a powerful ally, as any high ranking officer within the Alliance military can be.

Liara: The Shadow Broker. Perhaps Cerberus' greatest rival when it comes to gathering information.

And how does this help with the plot in Mass Effect 2?

[weirdnerd]

iakus wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Answers are right in front of you, yet you refuse to acknowledge them and argues for the sake of arguing...

1. To locate the Collector stronghold and destroy it, crippling the Reapers' operations while preventing further attacks on human colonies.

2. I doubt Cerberus would let Shepard send a message that could undermine their operations.

Also, read the definition of "allies" and think for once.

Legion: You have pretty much a geth ambassador right there.

Mordin/Grunt: Can help you with the krogan genophage.

Tali: Can help you with getting the quarians on your side.

Anderson: Councilor/Admiral. He can help you with the Alliance forces.

Steven Hackett: This guy helped Shepard just as much as Anderson did, and can also be a powerful ally, as any high ranking officer within the Alliance military can be.

Liara: The Shadow Broker. Perhaps Cerberus' greatest rival when it comes to gathering information.

3. Red shirts? Yeah. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe it will become true if you whine enough. They were selected because they were the best TIM could find and because some of them could improve Shepard's work relations if he/she saw familiar faces.

Without them, Shepard is nothing.

And all of that is great for ME3.  But what does any of it have to do with ME2?

as middle game of a trilogy me2's entire purpose was setting things up for me3, not advance the plot majorly,  so based on that it set me2 up for not having a very good plot

[Fixers0]

didymos1120 wrote...

As I suspected:  it's OK when ME1 doesn't allow the player any real control over the main plot, but it's a major flaw when ME2 does the exact same thing.

And as i excpected you haven't read my  post, or can't you see the obvious difference in structere between the two stories.

Here' an example.

The most logical and easist of getting information from the collectors is by sending probes through relay, instead if boarding their ship with no other guys with no backup plan whathowever, if the game really wanted us to do it that way then they havo to exlain why we are following this route and not others, in Mass Effect 1 we are following several leads to accomplish our goal, this is all explained in the game. 

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


Answers are right in front of you, yet you refuse to acknowledge them and argues for the sake of arguing...

1. To locate the Collector stronghold and destroy it, crippling the Reapers' operations while preventing further attacks on human colonies.

Tactical details? Strategical info? or anything on that matter, i was excepting it to be something more profound, this is not a plan, this is goal.

Someone With Mass wrote...
2. I doubt Cerberus would let Shepard send a message that could undermine their operations.

You can land you're ship at any time at the citadel and walk righ into the alliance embassy.

Someone With Mass wrote...
Also, read the definition of "allies" and think for once.

Legion: You have pretty much a geth ambassador right there.

Mordin/Grunt: Can help you with the krogan genophage.

Tali: Can help you with getting the quarians on your side.

Anderson: Councilor/Admiral. He can help you with the Alliance forces.

Steven Hackett: This guy helped Shepard just as much as Anderson did, and can also be a powerful ally, as any high ranking officer within the Alliance military can be.

Liara: The Shadow Broker. Perhaps Cerberus' greatest rival when it comes to gathering information.

And how does this help with the plot in Mass Effect 2?

1. Did you just ignore the part where they boarded the Collector ship to search its data banks for information because Smudboy didn't like it, or something?

2. Even so, what would telling the Alliance about the Reapers accomplish? Some of them (Hackett and Anderson) already know about the Reapers.

3. How about preparing for future events like most middle parts in trilogies do? Isn't ME2 allowed to do that while dealing with the Collectors?

[The Interloper]

Fixers0 wrote...
Such as? Did he contact the Alliance after finding the Derelict reaper?

When has Shepard ever talked with the alliance except for Hackett? And Hacket's comments make it clear that talking to the alliance would have been the same as talking to the council, which we can do. It's clear that-

1. Being attacked by a reaper didn't convince them of the reaper's existance-strange technology and age regardless. They're not going to be impressed by a dead one.
2. Shepards association with cerberus makes them reluctant to trust anything he says, much less help. Hell, they didnt' want to listen to him while he was a spectre.
3. They have no problem passing the buck. On the off chance shepard and cerberus are right? Let them deal with it. It's not worth the scandal to associate with a terrorist group operating in the terminus systems. And we care about this more than galactic annihilation because we aren't entirely sure the reapers exist at all (#1). 

So what would talking to them do?  It's well set up in ME1 that both the alliance and the council are ininterested in fighting the reapers, and in ME2 that only cerberus is interested. So I'm not upset they cut out a conversation that would not only be useless, but would be exactly like the one with the council.

iakus wrote...

And all of that is great for ME3.  But what does any of it have to do with ME2?

Transition piece. Moves plot points in position for finale. IE gets our feet wet in Quarian, Krogan, and Geth politics, all of which we know will be important in ME3. Collector plot gives pretext to connect scattershot episodes together and reveals more about the reapers inner workings. It's not focused, but it doesn't need to be.

Fixers0 wrote...

[The most logical and easist of getting information from the collectors is by sending probes through relay, instead if boarding their ship with no other guys with no backup plan whathowever, if the game really wanted us to do it that way then they havo to exlain why we are following this route and not others, in Mass Effect 1 we are following several leads to accomplish our goal, this is all explained in the game. 

ME1 sent a spectre, a handful of red shirts, a few teenage girls and some mercs with no backup to hunt down the deadliest man in the galaxy and a geth army without really knowing what he was doing, why, or how and nothing but extremely vague leads to follow. These conveniently all turn out to be important. Sort of like how the collector plan turns out to work. 

Just sayin.

Modifié par The Interloper, 18 septembre 2011 - 06:53 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

And as i excpected you haven't read my  post, or can't you see the obvious difference in structere between the two stories.

Here' an example.

The most logical and easist of getting information from the collectors is by sending probes through relay, instead if boarding their ship with no other guys with no backup plan whathowever, if the game really wanted us to do it that way then they havo to exlain why we are following this route and not others, in Mass Effect 1 we are following several leads to accomplish our goal, this is all explained in the game. 

Really? Because, to me, it looked like we were just following Saren, always one step behind and then exposed Shepard to beacons in a small hope that Liara can make sense of the gibberish with her space magic later on.

That's not really explaining anything. It's just throwing a bunch of facts at the players out of nowhere and expect them to roll with it.

Also, just because there's one alternative that seems to be the most logical one doesn't make everything else invalid.

[Iakus]

The Interloper wrote...

iakus wrote...

And all of that is great for ME3.  But what does any of it have to do with ME2?

Transition piece. Moves plot points in position for finale. IE gets our feet wet in Quarian, Krogan, and Geth politics, all of which we know will be important in ME3. Collector plot gives pretext to connect scattershot episodes together and reveals more about the reapers inner workings. It's not focused, but it doesn't need to be.

Too much scattershot.  Not enough pretext.

[Almostfaceman]

Phaelducan wrote...

Or maybe, just maybe some people can take off the d-bag hat for long enough to move on from a game that came out nearly 2 years ago and stop posting drivel all over the forums.

Seriously, how is one chucklehead posting "fixes" for one of the most successful games of all time productive in the slightest? The game was terrific, and all of you hipster foolio's saying "IT WOULD BE GREAT IF ONLY THEY WOULD LISTEN TO ME!" is both tiring and sophomoric.

Mass Effect 2 was a great game. The few dozen of you whining on these forums don't outweigh the millions who bought and loved it, not to mention the critical lauding it received. Could it use deeper RPG elements and some refined mechanics? Absolutely, and Bioware is addressing that.

Could it be improved by some youtube demagogue's fixes? No (LOL COUGH LOL).... no.

Move along.

Amen. 

[Il Divo]

The Interloper wrote...

ME1 sent a spectre, a handful of red shirts, a few teenage girls and some mercs with no backup to hunt down the deadliest man in the galaxy and a geth army without really knowing what he was doing, why, or how and nothing but extremely vague leads to follow. These conveniently all turn out to be important. Sort of like how the collector plan turns out to work. 

Just sayin.

I do have to agree with this. While ME2's plot is weaker, in both cases the "plan" works out because the plot demands it, not because the Council/Cerberus/Whatever is actually preparing for the threat accordingly.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Fixers0 wrote...
Collect a bunch of Redshirts and deal with their daddy issues,wow proffesional planning guys.

And that's a good example of where some of you go from reasoned criticism to making nonsense up. 

"Redshirts"?  Really? 

[The Interloper]

iakus wrote...

Too much scattershot.  Not enough pretext.

Subjective judgement based on degree. No fundamental flaw. Game serves purpose in overall story. Vehicle to set up many plot points, introduce characters, talk like Mordin, explore settings. Transition. Unfocused? Perhaps. So? Running plotline, main quest, clear goal. Basic elements of story. Enough to sustain main focus of series while setting up many side plots.

Modifié par The Interloper, 18 septembre 2011 - 08:12 .

[Sgt Stryker]

[quote]Fixers0 wrote...

[quote]Sgt Stryker wrote...


I plea for consistancy in storytelling and plot, if a writer wanted change certain aspects of a universe then enough exposition and a proper explanation is needed.
[/quote]

You mean like the thermal clips? [/quote]

That's mainly gameplay though i would like to argue that gameplay should be explained at the point of which it directly breaks with lore.
[/quote]

Do you mean the part where thermal clips act like ammo from other shooters and don't cool down over time? The testers didn't like the hybrid system that came before the system we have now. Sure, it's an out-of-universe explanation, but I don't think it's possible for a plausible in-universe explanation for this one.

[quote]
And why would you want to take that huge step back, if you evolved to the point of having unlimted ammo, then why make yourselfs depandable on a new type ammo again?

[/quote]

Apparently it wasn't such a step backwards after all, if virtually everyone in the galaxy adopted them. Besides, ME1 guns only had unlimited ammo in gameplay, not in lore. Sure, you could fire thousands of rounds out of one block, but it was still a finite amount.

The only things retcon-ish about thermal clips is the speed with which they were developed and deployed, and their presence on Aeia.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...
And why would you want to take that huge step back, if you evolved to the point of having unlimted ammo, then why make yourselfs depandable on a new type ammo again?

It's funny, because the guns in Mass Effect never had unlimited ammo. The in-universe guns simply evolved an easier way to get rid of the heat via the thermal clips.

[didymos1120]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The only things retcon-ish about thermal clips is the speed with which they were developed and deployed, and their presence on Aeia.

And the fact that we adopted them from the geth, despite geth weapons having the overheat mechanic like any other in ME1.  There's also a goof in Zaeed's dialogue about his epic love affair with Jesse The Rifle.

[Iakus]

The Interloper wrote...

iakus wrote...

Too much scattershot.  Not enough pretext.

Subjective judgement based on degree. No fundamental flaw. Game serves purpose in overall story. Vehicle to set up many plot points, introduce characters, talk like Mordin, explore settings. Transition. Unfocused? Perhaps. So? Running plotline, main quest, clear goal. Basic elements of story. Enough to sustain main focus of series while setting up many side plots.

As plot failed, added variable setups to compensate.  Collector story almost gone.  Added overloaded mercenary levels to compensate.  Transmitting combat to players.   No focus, replaced by setup.  No advancement, replaced by setup.  No soul.  Replaced by setup.  Whatever ME2 intended, gone forever.  Understand now?  No storyarc, no connection.  Closer to DLC than game.  Variables for ME3.  Story nonexistant.  Transition just final insult. 

Modifié par iakus, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Xeranx]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

The way I understand the VS situation on Horizon: if you notice their placement in the video it looks like we actually should have passed by them on the way to meeting Delan (or however you spell his name). In that section there were a bunch of people still locked in stasis.

One would think that the Collectors would notice that among all these unarmed civilians, there was one Alliance marine/navy officer (in armor, mind you) and would prioritize grabbing him/her. One would also think that the Collectors would know who the VS was. Shep became a galactic celebrity overnight after the Battle of the Citadel, why would the same not apply to Shep's elite crew?

Why would one think the Collectors would take note of one soldier when everything explained about the Collectors demonstrates that the Collectors aren't in a rush to take these people once their swarm has done their job?  Because TIM tells us after the fact?  What does the VS being famous by proxy have to do with anything?  As far as the Collectors are concerned they'll be processed the same way.

Keep in mind these are the same Collectors who already blew up the SR1.  They didn't make any effort (that we know of) to search through wreckage and find Shepard.  They also didn't destroy any of the veritable space piñatas that were left hanging out when the SR1 blew up.  They allowed every escapee to survive or at least the chance to do so.