6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...
It's not acceptable to label a 50% rating as average. Is a 50% on a test score average? No, it's failing. 5.5/10 = a bad game. Pick up any video game magazine from the last 15 years and look at their ratings system. 5-6 = not worth experiencing. Not "opinion" in this case as it's an industry standard. 37% ratings = abyssmal.

Partially caused by some review / ratings websites being afraid of angering a published by giving a rating less than 6/10 (or equivalent) to any game from that publisher... 

I don't know enough about publisher-website relations to really comment on that, but I do think thatreviews have become more skewed toward the higher end of the spectrum. So many games are given scores in the 70-100 spectrum that anything below indicates that the game is not worth playing. Essentially, reviewers don't use the bottom half of the rating spectrum, and when they do it typically indicates (in their opinion) that the game is crap.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

[Phaelducan]

70-100? I don't think so. Definitely 70-90. Typically any game that you see hitting 90's will hit quite a lot of them, and rarely do those also tank commercially. In that range from 70-85 or so you do see a lot of muddling. Sub 70 though usually is also fairly constant... but the real issue here is that once you start hitting 50is the product is usually shovelware (might still sell well, see the Wii for example), but from actual "gamers" that is a death knell.

To cite parity with ME2 hitting (the key here is consistently) 90+ and the Twilight series which consistently hit about HALF that is absolutely boneheaded.

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

Yep. 

Arrival even makes more sense to play after the Suicide Mission, since then it won't have the amusing effect of making the Reapers look like they went back to dark space and pretend to wake up during the last scene.

[Guldhun2]

Phaelducan wrote...

70-100? I don't think so. Definitely 70-90. Typically any game that you see hitting 90's will hit quite a lot of them, and rarely do those also tank commercially. In that range from 70-85 or so you do see a lot of muddling. Sub 70 though usually is also fairly constant... but the real issue here is that once you start hitting 50is the product is usually shovelware (might still sell well, see the Wii for example), but from actual "gamers" that is a death knell.

To cite parity with ME2 hitting (the key here is consistently) 90+ and the Twilight series which consistently hit about HALF that is absolutely boneheaded.

KOTOR
93 (8.9 user)

KOTOR2
85 (7.6 user)


Yet KOTOR2 is better in all aspects. It has better voice acting, better writing, better gameplay, better sound, better visuals.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Phaelducan wrote...

Straw man. Read Game Informer. They drop 5's all the time. If a game sucks, it sucks. 50% does not equal average.

That's why I said "partially".  Not true of every reviewer, just some. 

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Wrong. Arrival, in canon, takes place after the Suicide Mission as seen in the new comic, Conviction. I'm asking if it's the same thing for Lair of the Shadow Broker. I know that technically you can play either at any time after Horizon.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

[Phaelducan]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

70-100? I don't think so. Definitely 70-90. Typically any game that you see hitting 90's will hit quite a lot of them, and rarely do those also tank commercially. In that range from 70-85 or so you do see a lot of muddling. Sub 70 though usually is also fairly constant... but the real issue here is that once you start hitting 50is the product is usually shovelware (might still sell well, see the Wii for example), but from actual "gamers" that is a death knell.

To cite parity with ME2 hitting (the key here is consistently) 90+ and the Twilight series which consistently hit about HALF that is absolutely boneheaded.

KOTOR
93 (8.9 user)

KOTOR2
85 (7.6 user)


Yet KOTOR2 is better in all aspects. It has better voice acting, better writing, better gameplay, better sound, better visuals.

It was also incomplete and rushed to print. I loved KotOR 2 but it was gutted at the end (see the restoration project). If it had been finished I would agree with you, but we lost hours of content.

Modifié par Phaelducan, 20 septembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Il Divo]

Phaelducan wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

70-100? I don't think so. Definitely 70-90. Typically any game that you see hitting 90's will hit quite a lot of them, and rarely do those also tank commercially. In that range from 70-85 or so you do see a lot of muddling. Sub 70 though usually is also fairly constant... but the real issue here is that once you start hitting 50is the product is usually shovelware (might still sell well, see the Wii for example), but from actual "gamers" that is a death knell.

To cite parity with ME2 hitting (the key here is consistently) 90+ and the Twilight series which consistently hit about HALF that is absolutely boneheaded.

KOTOR
93 (8.9 user)

KOTOR2
85 (7.6 user)


Yet KOTOR2 is better in all aspects. It has better voice acting, better writing, better gameplay, better sound, better visuals.

It was also incomplete and rushed to print. I loved KotOR 2 but it was gutted at the end (see the restoration project). It it had been finished I would agree with you, but we lost hours of content.

This. KotOR 2 was butchered. Had Obsidian been given their full time frame, it would probably be top on my greates games of all time. As released? No, it's not better "in all aspects".  

[Xeranx]

Phaelducan wrote...

It's not acceptable to label a 50% rating as average. Is a 50% on a test score average? No, it's failing. 5.5/10 = a bad game. Pick up any video game magazine from the last 15 years and look at their ratings system. 5-6 = not worth experiencing. Not "opinion" in this case as it's an industry standard. 37% ratings = abyssmal.

Please post links to this video game rating standard.

[dreman9999]

Arkitekt wrote...

iakus wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Normandy SR2 is a stealth ship. Only when they turned on a trojan horse did the Collectors catch them. If the situation is too bad on the other side of the node, they will make the proper survey and perhaps call it a day and flee. If they can't manage to flee, they die. This is why it is called a "suicide mission", if you are catching on. All these possibilities are manageable, since the only way to catch the collectors off-hand and have a chance to "save the lost" is to get the Normandy to jump in a surprise maneuver.

The fact that they did the right thing is that they succeeded. All the other alternatives proposed by Smudboy et al fail 100% of the time, since the probes will alert the Collectors that Shepard is now able to cross the relay and form more proper defenses.

The Normandy's cloak doesn't work on the Collectors, as evidenced by the SR1's destruction.

SR2's cloak clearly works since the Collectors are only able to track it when it turns on the trojan horse within the reaper IFF. Try again.

The Occuli also had no problems tracking them.

They detected the Normandy when it passed through them. As the lore states elsewhere, Normandy may be stealth but it is still detectable by "watching it with your eyes" (this is clearly stupid, but it is the technobabble story, stuff that you apparently enjoy). Occuli are "eyes". They see the Normandy and attack it.

When I said that the Normandy can escape is by FTL jumping out if the heat turns out to be too much. It then becomes quite impossible to look for it.

The reason why they caught the Collectors off-guard was because they relied on the black holes to keep out most unwanted visitors.  If there had been actual substantive defenses in place, the Normandy would have been chewed up and spit out.  In other words.  Shep should have immediately gone out and bought a lottery ticket, it was his lucky day.

No. What it means is that Shepard was right to attack before betraying his access to the Relay, and thus letting the Collectors know they must place "substantive defenses in place". Shepard is betting that since his arrival will be a surprise, no defenses will be set against it. He was right. You are not. QED 

1.No, it does not work at all. It's just that space is a huge place. IT'S ENDLESS. The collectors have to be near the normandy to track them, how on earth would the collectors be able to know what area the normandy is going to be to be able to sense them.
2.They detected the normandy because they passed the relay.

Modifié par dreman9999, 20 septembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[Phaelducan]

Please don't ask for links/quotes for common sense. If you think 50% is average, there is nothing I can do to help you.

Offhand though I know Game Informer lists a "5" as a flawed game that may have had potential but failed to deliver on that promise. Also, recently Homefront got a 7 out of them and they pretty much verbatim called it average (from set pieces to mechanics). Again, I'm not going to argue common sense.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

I'm just referring to the games with Shepard. Outside of Anderson not being the councilor. On that, nothing is stated that the final mission did not happen around the same time frame of the suicide mission. We know arrival happen 2  or more months before ME3, but there is not time frame stated to when the suicide misson happen.So it could easilly happen during those 2 months or after. There's no cannon to when the Suicide mission happened.

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

I'm just referring to the games with Shepard. Outside of Anderson not being the councilor. On that, nothing is stated that the final mission did not happen around the same time frame of the suicide mission. We know arrival happen 2  or more months before ME3, but there is not time frame stated to when the suicide misson happen.So it could easilly happen during those 2 months or after. There's no cannon to when the Suicide mission happened.

No, Arrival takes place after ME2. If not, then the devs would have said "ME3 takes place 2 months after ME2" rather than "ME3 takes place 2 months after Arrival".

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

I'm just referring to the games with Shepard. Outside of Anderson not being the councilor. On that, nothing is stated that the final mission did not happen around the same time frame of the suicide mission. We know arrival happen 2  or more months before ME3, but there is not time frame stated to when the suicide misson happen.So it could easilly happen during those 2 months or after. There's no cannon to when the Suicide mission happened.

No, Arrival takes place after ME2. If not, then the devs would have said "ME3 takes place 2 months after ME2" rather than "ME3 takes place 2 months after Arrival".

No, the devs state ME3 takes place 2 months after the arrival. Know one ever said the the Suicide misson took place. It clear it can happen because the mssions can be effected if you do it per- suicide mission or post- suicide mission. BW would not make the effort to make the dlc change based on when you did the suicide mission it only locked into story that it happens at a certin time. No one ever said when the suicide mission happen and Bioware stated that with the games, non- of the results are cannon out side for what happens to you Shepard.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Phaelducan wrote...

70-100? I don't think so. Definitely 70-90. Typically any game that you see hitting 90's will hit quite a lot of them, and rarely do those also tank commercially. In that range from 70-85 or so you do see a lot of muddling. Sub 70 though usually is also fairly constant... but the real issue here is that once you start hitting 50is the product is usually shovelware (might still sell well, see the Wii for example), but from actual "gamers" that is a death knell.

To cite parity with ME2 hitting (the key here is consistently) 90+ and the Twilight series which consistently hit about HALF that is absolutely boneheaded.

At this point we are getting considerably off topic and arguing semantics. I am using the technical definition of percentage, 50% being average or middle ground but whatever. The whole basis was review websites do not specific analysis the story like this topic and those involved are. Their reviews encompass everything, not what amounts to maybe seven hours of a thirty hour game. Likewise, popularity does not necessarily equate to good but now I am repeating myself.

[Xeranx]

Phaelducan wrote...

Please don't ask for links/quotes for common sense. If you think 50% is average, there is nothing I can do to help you.

Offhand though I know Game Informer lists a "5" as a flawed game that may have had potential but failed to deliver on that promise. Also, recently Homefront got a 7 out of them and they pretty much verbatim called it average (from set pieces to mechanics). Again, I'm not going to argue common sense.

I asked for reference since you posited a "fact".  You declined.  So how do I know you're not trying to feed us bull and get away with it?  There's a foundation that governs what passing is on a test.  That has nothing to do with videogame reviews since they're opinion pieces for the most part.  if different review companies have different ways of looking at said reviews and their numbers on a scale then there is no standard as you state. 

If game informer lists "5" as a flawed game that had potential, but failed to deliver what would you call it?  Poor?  It's average.  If you think someone isn't great looking, but isn't horrible looking they are average.  If you're using a 1-10 scale, 5 being in the middle is average (median).  1%-100%, 50% is average.  If on a 1-10 scale something is given a 7 it is above average.

So, kotaku doesn't use a 1-10 scale and gamespy uses a 1-5 scale as does g4 last I checked.  With these three known and one being on television your claim that there's an industry standard is false.  

Modifié par Xeranx, 20 septembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[Sgt Stryker]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

I'm just referring to the games with Shepard. Outside of Anderson not being the councilor. On that, nothing is stated that the final mission did not happen around the same time frame of the suicide mission. We know arrival happen 2  or more months before ME3, but there is not time frame stated to when the suicide misson happen.So it could easilly happen during those 2 months or after. There's no cannon to when the Suicide mission happened.

No, Arrival takes place after ME2. If not, then the devs would have said "ME3 takes place 2 months after ME2" rather than "ME3 takes place 2 months after Arrival".

Has anyone looked at the new Mass Effect: Conviction comic? If that's canon, then it strongly suggests that Arrival canonically took place AFTER the Suicide Mission. Vega is shown watching news broadcasts several days after the discovery of the destruction of the Bahak system. By this time, the Normandy and Shepard have already been captured by Alliance officials.

[111987]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

I'm not sure about this, but canonically, doesn't Lair of the Shadow Broker occur after the Suicide Mission? Same as Arrival. Weren't they described as a 'bridge' between ME2 and ME3?

It can happen any time in the story after horizon. Their is no canon.

Actually, there is a canon order of certain events as far as the storytelling goes. 

No, bioware has said it over and over again...There is no canon. One persons shepard can do arriaval
 before the Suicide misson, one persons Shepard can do it after.It the same with lotsb and both are different besed on when you do the mssion. Bioware would notput the effort to make the mission different pre and post Suicide mission if their was only going to be one cannon choice.

No. You are wrong. Novels and comics are canon. Devs have stated repeatedly Arrival happens 2 months before ME3, while ME2 ended before that.

I'm just referring to the games with Shepard. Outside of Anderson not being the councilor. On that, nothing is stated that the final mission did not happen around the same time frame of the suicide mission. We know arrival happen 2  or more months before ME3, but there is not time frame stated to when the suicide misson happen.So it could easilly happen during those 2 months or after. There's no cannon to when the Suicide mission happened.

No, Arrival takes place after ME2. If not, then the devs would have said "ME3 takes place 2 months after ME2" rather than "ME3 takes place 2 months after Arrival".

Has anyone looked at the new Mass Effect: Conviction comic? If that's canon, then it strongly suggests that Arrival canonically took place AFTER the Suicide Mission. Vega is shown watching news broadcasts several days after the discovery of the destruction of the Bahak system. By this time, the Normandy and Shepard have already been captured by Alliance officials.

Thank you That was my original point in the first place, which dreman9999 ignored/dismissed baselessly.

[Sgt Stryker]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its grounded on horizon. That severely limits its capabilities.

Why risk the Normandy on an optional confrontation? Not to mention the issues that arise from killing all the colonists on board, which as I said, the point of the mission is to save them.

Now that you mention it, that would have made a brilliant Paragon/Renegade choice for the Horizon battle! Do you bring in the Normandy to cause extra damage to the Collector ship, giving you a tactical advantage for the future and potentially killing some of the captured colonists, or do you hold back in the hopes of saving more colonists? Of course, for this choice to matter, the Suicide Mission would have to be significantly restructured. Not saying that's a bad idea, though.

[Phaelducan]

Fair enough that the smaller the deviations, the less the numbers mean. 1-5 is harder to pin down then 1-10 which is less than 1-100 and so on. That is why a site like Gamespy uses 1-5, because a 2-4 could mean anything. Same with movie reviews. That being said, we live in an age with easy access to aggregate ratings across numerous sources. If a game gets one "5," then it might be hard to surmise the reviewers intent. However, if across 50 reviews the score consistently falls at 50% or lower, then by definition the product is below average, since the average "approval" score for most aggregate scores falls closer to 7.

This isn't hard.

For the record if Game Informer gives a game a 5, I do consider it poor, and would likely not be interested. The lowest game scored that I enjoyed was Too Human, and iirc it got a 6. However, I knew full well that the game had serious issues, and at times was borderline unplayable. I just liked it anyway because of the setting. However, if someone told me the game sucked, I wouldn't tell them it was great, even though I liked it.

[Sajuro]

For the topic of reviews, I find the scores for most games to not be too helpful (except for the god awful ones) since taste in games varies in vast amounts. I prefer Yahtzee somewhat since he doesn't score the game, he ****es about everything that's wrong with it, gives some good points to it and you take from it what you will.
But to quote Halolz on the gaming use of 1-100 scale: One might say we have more discerning tastes? Others might say we’re just idiots who don’t understand how a scale from 1 to 100 should work…