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[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaelducan wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


On a scale of 0 to 100, 50 is in the middle. It's half. It's the average...

If no game ever gets such a score (or does so only rarely) then, no, it's not the average score. The fact that it should be is sort of irrelevant. What matters is what's actually done in practice.  But it's not like there's a consistent, standardized rating scale anyway.  Even aggregate sites use different methodologies to come up with their scores.

Logic is useless here. He won't even consider that he isn't right. Narcissists never do. Cite standardized tests, cite Zagat food reviews, cite Amazon consumer reviews, cite consumer reports, cite political polling, cite whatever you want. He won't care, he won't listen, and he sure as hell won't consider that he's wrong. 

Edit: He sure can use emoticons to get his "point" across though.

Look who's talking....
I'd be insulted if it wasn't so funny coming from you.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Whats all this **** about review scores, and what relevance do they have to the discussion?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nashiktal wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
This is probably pretty obvious, but I paint miniatures myself. 

-For the greater good.

FOR THE EMPRAH!
You greater good pales in comparison to His glory!

Keep your decaying corpse and let your empire finish its inevitable rot. It is the Tau's time to rise in your stead.

You exist because we are too busy to deal with insects.
Pray that the Imperium never focuses it's attention on your pathetic little race Tau! It didn't work well for you the last time, when only a small force of ours kicked your blue butts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Whats all this **** about review scores, and what relevance do they have to the discussion?

It kinda drifted into the discussion.
I think it's got something to do with Twilight and how good/bad it is.
Which has something to do with the writing quality argument.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Whats all this **** about review scores, and what relevance do they have to the discussion?

It kinda drifted into the discussion.
I think it's got something to do with Twilight and how good/bad it is.
Which has something to do with the writing quality argument.

Still, I'm kinda confused as to what reviews have to do with the plot of ME 2. There have been works of entertainment that have been praised justly and unjustly, the opposite is also true. Thats about as far as you can take reviews.

[TobyHasEyes]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Whats all this **** about review scores, and what relevance do they have to the discussion?

It kinda drifted into the discussion.
I think it's got something to do with Twilight and how good/bad it is.
Which has something to do with the writing quality argument.

Still, I'm kinda confused as to what reviews have to do with the plot of ME 2. There have been works of entertainment that have been praised justly and unjustly, the opposite is also true. Thats about as far as you can take reviews.

 Well if lots of people are satisfied with a product, to the extent that they rate it well, and the creators are satisfied with that reception, then those people making snipey critiques on the sidelines do seem very irrelevant to the whole process

[Lotion Soronarr]

You forget that:

a) the majority is not always right

review sites reviews ME2 AS A WHOLE. They review the entire game. Not just the story/writing. Which makes all the difference in the world.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

1. They had small, powerful and moving defenses, which are even better, since a ship can just zoom past those static defenses with ease. Here's something else. The debris field. It's constantly moving.

Apparently not powerfull enough.
And you can't just zoom past static defenses with ease.

Again, they had no idea what was on the other side. For all the knew it could have been a gigantic wall for them to crash into.

2. That is still a test, ******. A signal that activates the special function of the relay which allows for precision jumps is exactly what they were aiming for. And how could they test that? Strapping the IFF on one of those probes which everyone claims to be so ****ing brilliant and hope it comes back?

That's not a live test ******. Unless you know exactly how the relay will react to that signal, you're boned.

3. Yeah, deadlier for the Collectors, since they would have to approach the relay from the exact same angle all the time to avoid ramming into those defenses.

But they would know. And hence they woudk always approach it from teh same angle. IT's not dangerous for hte Collectors. Your point is moot.

4. The Collectors have only been around for about fifty thousand years, and a even better move would be to take all those massive fleets out into dark space and put them into hibernation as a part of the Reapers' conquering fleet instead of letting them waste energy trying to protect themselves from the intense radiations and gravitational pulls from the galactic core.

Except shep doesn't know how long hte collectors have been around. He doesn't know how many ships they got. He doesn't know what defenses are on the other side fo hte Omega relay.

The difference between you and me is that I'm actually capable of believing in other outcomes or situations than the one I think is right or the most probable. 

While you're going "I am always right! I can't be wrong! Everything I say is the truth, no matter how stupid it is!" all the time.

The difference between you and me is that you are downright ignoring anything that contradicts your oppinion.

Despite it being proven that Shep and the crew have no idea what's on the other side, you consider jumping in blind with a untested IFF a great idea...and then you try to claim the position of reason.

1. Do you know how fast a ship like the Normandy can travel? Thousands of kilometers an hour.

If there's a giant wall on the other side, then the Collectors would run a even greater risk of ramming that thing.

2. Okay, let me tell you something. All that relay is made for is to receive data about your ship's mass so it can calculate the amount of power needed to perform the jump. The jump itself is done by injecting dark energy into the drive core, allowing for instant transport.

I'd guess that all the IFF is doing is giving the relay more precise data about the Normandy's mass.

3. Approaching a secondary relay from the exact same coordinates every single time is not only unecessarily complicated, it's also time consuming. The Collectors could be in need of jumping away from approaching curious eyes or if their ship is badly damaged so they can't make it to those exact coordinates. Then they'd be screwed.

4. After the Collector ship mission, they know that the Collectors are repruposed Protheans, and the Protheans were wiped out roughly fifty thousand years ago. One can assume that the Collectors' creation came not long after that.

Oh, no, we can't take any risks. I guess this mission is doomed right from the start, since you don't know every single thing about the people you're recruiting either and it could be a risk having them aboard too.

I am fully aware of what's contradicting my opinion. If it's a good one, I'll give credits where cedits is due.

If it's something laughably bad like your theory about static defenses INSIDE A DEBRIS FIELD, then I'll point and laugh.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 20 septembre 2011 - 10:27 .

[TobyHasEyes]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You forget that:

a) the majority is not always right

review sites reviews ME2 AS A WHOLE. They review the entire game. Not just the story/writing. Which makes all the difference in the world.

 But the majority is content with the product, as are the people who made it. It didn't fail to do what it set out to do

 The majority are not always right, but in a product (or action or whatever) that has no significance beyond whether people like it, I don't see why those things which bothered Smudboy/you/me/whoever are such an issue to merit this insanely long and combative thread

 A product designed to be enjoyed was enjoyed by a lot of people, you may not have liked some things, I didn't like some things, Smudboy clearly made a HUGE issue of some things, I really don't see why it needs to go any further than that

 

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 20 septembre 2011 - 10:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
1. Do you know how fast a ship like the Normandy can travel? Thousands of kilometers an hour.

Do you know how fast a particle beam or lasers travel?

If there's a giant wall on the other side, then the Collectors would run a even greater risk of ramming that thing.

No, because they would know about it. And also, becaue it can be moved by them. Even watched Stargate? Know what the Iris is?
To put it simple -a remote controlled lid.

2. Okay, let me tell you something. All that relay is made for is to receive data about your ship's mass so it can calculate the amount of power needed to perform the jump. The jump itself is done by injecting dark energy into the drive core, allowing for instant transport.

I'd guess that all the IFF is doing is giving the relay more precise data about the Normandy's mass.

The relays themselves are barely studied and even less understood. You dont' know exactly what tehy do or what the IFF does.
The ships give the relays precise data - it's the IFF that supposedly triggers more advanced transit protocols.
Who's to say it also doesn't do more? Like shoot you into a black hole if you're not a reaper? Explode you mid-transit?

3. Approaching a secondary relay from the exact same coordinates every single time is not only unecessarily complicated, it's also time consuming. The Collectors could be in need of jumping away from approaching curious eyes or if their ship is badly damaged so they can't make it to those exact coordinates. Then they'd be screwed.

So it's a uncomfortable solution IF they are damaged and IF they want to get away from prying eyes?
A lot of IF's there...
and it's not very hard to approch the relay from the same coordinates.
You're grasping at the far ends of paper straws man....

4. After the Collector ship mission, they know that the Collectors are repruposed Protheans, and the Protheans were wiped out roughly fifty thousand years ago. One can assume that the Collectors' creation came not long after that.

That's still 50 000 years of time to build defenses and ships....that's 200 times more than humans were space-faring, adn they built 200+ ships in that time.
Again, only a fool would believe they only have 1 ship.

Oh, no, we can't take any risks. I guess this mission is doomed right from the start, since you don't know every single thing about the people you're recruiting either and it could be a risk having them aboard too.

I won't even dignify that with an answer.

I am fully aware of what's contradicting my opinion. If it's a good one, I'll give credits where cedits is due.

If it's something laughably bad like your theory about static defenses INSIDE A DEBRIS FIELD, then I'll point and laugh.

Laugh away joker. Meanwhile I'll shake my head in pitty of you.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

I can easily say I don't seee why people are so bothered with other people being dissapointed, and why does defending bad writign warrant this long thread.

[LeandroBraz]

About Shepard's body, I don't want to let Smudboy's fans sad but anyone can point where they said that Shepard's body was found in the planet? I can't find that, but You can see Miranda saying in a recorded vid in Lazaru's Project Station that the body was affected by long exposure to space vacuum and cold.

Can someone point me how smudboy know that the body fall in the planet, instead of just orbit it into it was found?


Smudboy is just a hater trying to call attention, he have no idea what he is talking about. ME is full of inconsistencies like every game I played, but definitely it's not the piece of **** that smudboy say it is.

[100k]

LeandroBraz wrote...

About Shepard's body, I don't want to let Smudboy's fans sad but anyone can point where they said that Shepard's body was found in the planet? I can't find that, but You can see Miranda saying in a recorded vid in Lazaru's Project Station that the body was affected by long exposure to space vacuum and cold.

Can someone point me how smudboy know that the body fall in the planet, instead of just orbit it into it was found?


Smudboy is just a hater trying to call attention, he have no idea what he is talking about. ME is full of inconsistencies like every game I played, but definitely it's not the piece of **** that smudboy say it is.

We see Shepard's body falling onto Alchera at the beginning of ME2. He starts to burn up in atmosphere, and plummet towards the planet. 

On top of that, Legion, Liara, and Shepard find old N7 armor pieces amongst the SR1 wreckage. 

So, its pretty much undeniable that he fell to the planet. 

[TobyHasEyes]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

I can easily say I don't seee why people are so bothered with other people being dissapointed, and why does defending bad writign warrant this long thread.

 Obviously, what confuses me is the single-minded focus on flaws in an otherwise good product, as typified by Smudboy making a long video mentionning only what he saw as bad in the game

 If you really don't think "defending bad writing" warrants this long thread, then why do you think defending the claim of "bad writing" warrants this long thread? And if you don't, then just abandon it

 That isn't specifically directed towards you, but towards everyone in this thread. If you enjoy this kind of combative, fruitless debate then by all means continue. But if you do see this, as I do, as a pointless and joyless thrash-about, then do not enter into the debate

 Signing out 

[LeandroBraz]

100k wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

About Shepard's body, I don't want to let Smudboy's fans sad but anyone can point where they said that Shepard's body was found in the planet? I can't find that, but You can see Miranda saying in a recorded vid in Lazaru's Project Station that the body was affected by long exposure to space vacuum and cold.

Can someone point me how smudboy know that the body fall in the planet, instead of just orbit it into it was found?


Smudboy is just a hater trying to call attention, he have no idea what he is talking about. ME is full of inconsistencies like every game I played, but definitely it's not the piece of **** that smudboy say it is.

We see Shepard's body falling onto Alchera at the beginning of ME2. He starts to burn up in atmosphere, and plummet towards the planet. 

On top of that, Legion, Liara, and Shepard find old N7 armor pieces amongst the SR1 wreckage. 

So, its pretty much undeniable that he fell to the planet. 

No, we don't. I played it just now, we don't see his body going into atmosphere. I research the wikia, nobody says nothing about where the body is found, not even in ME: Redemption. Legion found one piece of ONE Shepard's N7 armor in Normandy SR1, not the armor Shepard was with when he "died". That armor is restaured and given to us when we wake up.

 Anyone have evidence instead of speculation?




plus, by smudboy rules, if it's not showed in the plot, it's not valid. So he's opinion is only right if you find it visible in the plot, you can't just conclude putting individual pieces together. I don't put myself under the same rule. =)

Modifié par LeandroBraz, 20 septembre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Sajuro]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, nothing in that comic says when they captured shepard nor or how long ago the event happened. It could easily happen the same month as the suicide mission. iT can happen before the suicide mission or after.

It's a breaking news report about the events of Arrival...and at the end of the comic, Shepard is shown in chains, being prepard to be brought to Earth.

You can figure this out

No. it not. Think of it more of the lines as the way news was reported during 9/11. It was about what the citidel was trying to do about it, not about the event just happening.

Didn't the Devs say that it was meant to be played after the suicide mission?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
1. Do you know how fast a ship like the Normandy can travel? Thousands of kilometers an hour.

Do you know how fast a particle beam or lasers travel?

If there's a giant wall on the other side, then the Collectors would run a even greater risk of ramming that thing.

No, because they would know about it. And also, becaue it can be moved by them. Even watched Stargate? Know what the Iris is?
To put it simple -a remote controlled lid.

2. Okay, let me tell you something. All that relay is made for is to receive data about your ship's mass so it can calculate the amount of power needed to perform the jump. The jump itself is done by injecting dark energy into the drive core, allowing for instant transport.

I'd guess that all the IFF is doing is giving the relay more precise data about the Normandy's mass.

The relays themselves are barely studied and even less understood. You dont' know exactly what tehy do or what the IFF does.
The ships give the relays precise data - it's the IFF that supposedly triggers more advanced transit protocols.
Who's to say it also doesn't do more? Like shoot you into a black hole if you're not a reaper? Explode you mid-transit?

3. Approaching a secondary relay from the exact same coordinates every single time is not only unecessarily complicated, it's also time consuming. The Collectors could be in need of jumping away from approaching curious eyes or if their ship is badly damaged so they can't make it to those exact coordinates. Then they'd be screwed.

So it's a uncomfortable solution IF they are damaged and IF they want to get away from prying eyes?
A lot of IF's there...
and it's not very hard to approch the relay from the same coordinates.
You're grasping at the far ends of paper straws man....

4. After the Collector ship mission, they know that the Collectors are repruposed Protheans, and the Protheans were wiped out roughly fifty thousand years ago. One can assume that the Collectors' creation came not long after that.

That's still 50 000 years of time to build defenses and ships....that's 200 times more than humans were space-faring, adn they built 200+ ships in that time.
Again, only a fool would believe they only have 1 ship.

Oh, no, we can't take any risks. I guess this mission is doomed right from the start, since you don't know every single thing about the people you're recruiting either and it could be a risk having them aboard too.

I won't even dignify that with an answer.

I am fully aware of what's contradicting my opinion. If it's a good one, I'll give credits where cedits is due.

If it's something laughably bad like your theory about static defenses INSIDE A DEBRIS FIELD, then I'll point and laugh.

Laugh away joker. Meanwhile I'll shake my head in pitty of you.

Considering that the O4R is in a pretty active solar system, and next to a population center which contains millions of people, the chance of the Collectors being followed is quite large. 

A ship can't explode mid-jump unless there's something wrong with the core. After the jump is executed, the relay has no interaction with the ship whatsoever.

Also: IFF = Identify Friend/Foe. The relay has no reason to think that the Normandy isn't a Reaper, because that's why we have the IFF. To make it think that a Reaper ship is trying to access its systems and therefore give the ship the complex algorithms needed to perform the jump.

By the way, I just presented a pretty possible scenario about the Collector ship being damaged (like how it was damaged on Horizon, for example). That does not make me a person who's grasping a straws. It just makes you a pathetic loser who's trying to poke holes in my arguments by presenting incredibly paranoid scenarios.

What would the Collectors gain on wasting so many resources on protecting a spot only they and their kind can access when they have something mobile and fast like the Oculus which can guard the zone and shoot down anything that doesn't belong there?

If the Collectors had a such a huge fleet, then why would they need to safeguard their base in the galactic core, where they're exposing themselves to incredibly strong powers like the black holes and intense radiation?

They could just hide in a nebula like the geth and shoot down any trespassers. Like the geth.

[LeandroBraz]

LeandroBraz wrote...

100k wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

About Shepard's body, I don't want to let Smudboy's fans sad but anyone can point where they said that Shepard's body was found in the planet? I can't find that, but You can see Miranda saying in a recorded vid in Lazaru's Project Station that the body was affected by long exposure to space vacuum and cold.

Can someone point me how smudboy know that the body fall in the planet, instead of just orbit it into it was found?


Smudboy is just a hater trying to call attention, he have no idea what he is talking about. ME is full of inconsistencies like every game I played, but definitely it's not the piece of **** that smudboy say it is.

We see Shepard's body falling onto Alchera at the beginning of ME2. He starts to burn up in atmosphere, and plummet towards the planet. 

On top of that, Legion, Liara, and Shepard find old N7 armor pieces amongst the SR1 wreckage. 

So, its pretty much undeniable that he fell to the planet. 

No, we don't. I played it just now, we don't see his body going into atmosphere. I research the wikia, nobody says nothing about where the body is found, not even in ME: Redemption. Legion found one piece of ONE Shepard's N7 armor in Normandy SR1, not the armor Shepard was with when he "died". That armor is restaured and given to us when we wake up.

 Anyone have evidence instead of speculation?




plus, by smudboy rules, if it's not showed in the plot, it's not valid. So he's opinion is only right if you find it visible in the plot, you can't just conclude putting individual pieces together. I don't put myself under the same rule. =)

 Nobody? No evidences? Nothing? So he was find orbiting the planet. This changes things, right?

[Arkitekt]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

Haters gonna hate. It's your nature.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

I can easily say I don't seee why people are so bothered with other people being dissapointed, and why does defending bad writign warrant this long thread.

 Obviously, what confuses me is the single-minded focus on flaws in an otherwise good product, as typified by Smudboy making a long video mentionning only what he saw as bad in the game

 If you really don't think "defending bad writing" warrants this long thread, then why do you think defending the claim of "bad writing" warrants this long thread? And if you don't, then just abandon it

 That isn't specifically directed towards you, but towards everyone in this thread. If you enjoy this kind of combative, fruitless debate then by all means continue. But if you do see this, as I do, as a pointless and joyless thrash-about, then do not enter into the debate

 Signing out 

Those flaws won't go away if people don't focus on them.
As long as people kiss the artists ass and sing praises to inflate his ego, and are completely content with even sub-par products, then that same artists feels no need to improve or remove the flaws. Indeed, he might become convinced there aren't any flawes. And thus stagnation begins.

I can't speak for everyone, but I do know that most of us pointing out the flaws do it because we LOVE Bioware. Because we love ME2. We want to see it better. And you won't see it become better by drooling overy it's every crevice...there's plenty of fanboys to do that.

In short, I focus on flaws because they are what needs fixing. The good stuff needs no fixing.


And no, I do not realy enjoy the barrage of stupidity usually found in such threads.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

Haters gonna hate. It's your nature.

What if someone loves ME2, is still replaying it off and on, but is perfectly honest about the warts and shortcomings? 

[Sajuro]

Far as I'm concerned, for my Shepard going through the Relay with the IFF was not an issue about what could be waiting on the other side, he knew he would have to go through a relay no one ever came back from to fight a foe that no one knew anything about in order to stop the attacks on the human colonies and save anyone he could. He went through that relay without a probe or anything because the collectors took his crew and Shepard doesn't let that **** slide

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Obviously some people aren't content with the writing.

Haters gonna hate. It's your nature.

What if someone loves ME2, is still replaying it off and on, but is perfectly honest about the warts and shortcomings? 

I'm wondering about someone who sincerely wants to love ME2, but the weaknesses in the story are so glaring it kills much of the enjoyment he would normally derive from the game?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
A ship can't explode mid-jump unless there's something wrong with the core. After the jump is executed, the relay has no interaction with the ship whatsoever.

Also: IFF = Identify Friend/Foe. The relay has no reason to think that the Normandy isn't a Reaper, because that's why we have the IFF. To make it think that a Reaper ship is trying to access its systems and therefore give the ship the complex algorithms needed to perform the jump.

Uhh..the IFF does not other thing? Which is why EDI was hacked and Normandy crippled?
I guess no one could possibly think they go more safety protocols or traps?

By the way, I just presented a pretty possible scenario about the Collector ship being damaged (like how it was damaged on Horizon, for example). That does not make me a person who's grasping a straws. It just makes you a pathetic loser who's trying to poke holes in my arguments by presenting incredibly paranoid scenarios.

Yes, it does make you grasping at straws. The supposed  "difficulty" in approaching the relay from a specific angle...ther'es nothing difficutl about it. Especially not for a race of elder machine-gods.

and mind you, the Collector Cruiser being damaged on horizon goes agaisnt hte argument that the Normandy shouldn' have enganged it. What batter target than a damaged, retreating ship?

What would the Collectors gain on wasting so many resources on protecting a spot only they and their kind can access when they have something mobile and fast like the Oculus which can guard the zone and shoot down anything that doesn't belong there?

A few thrusters grafted on a giant slab of metal are a expensive? Nah, it's a very cheap defense method. Cheaper then the occuli.
And again - how did Shep know the Collectors didn't have 100 Occuli? Or 500? or 1000? He didn't.

If the Collectors had a such a huge fleet, then why would they need to safeguard their base in the galactic core, where they're exposing themselves to incredibly strong powers like the black holes and intense radiation?

To remain hidden?
Because they like it there? How should I know? You can also ask yourself why didn't the Collectors aid Sovereign on the attack on the Citadel?

[Mister Mida]

LeandroBraz wrote...

No, we don't. I played it just now, we don't see his body going into atmosphere. I research the wikia, nobody says nothing about where the body is found, not even in ME: Redemption. Legion found one piece of ONE Shepard's N7 armor in Normandy SR1, not the armor Shepard was with when he "died". That armor is restaured and given to us when we wake up.

Anyone have evidence instead of speculation?

'Legion found one piece of ONE Shepard's N7 armor in Normandy SR1, not the armor Shepard was with when he "died".'

What?

'That armor is restaured and given to us when we wake up.'

If you're under the impression that the armour you get on Lazarus Station is your restored armour that was found among your body or on the wreckage of the Normandy, you're wrong. I think Cerberus is more than able to acquire a new N7 armour from the Alliance, legal or otherwise.

EDIT: and by your logic, it's not proven either that Shepard was orbiting Alchera and found there. All we got was the camera moving away from Shepard and fading out.

I personally find it more likely and logic that he was found on Alchera. He was moving towards the planet, and who was around after the 'battle' to pick him up? It sure as hell wasn't the Collectors or Shepard's body wouldn't be in the hands of the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 20 septembre 2011 - 01:33 .