6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaelducan wrote...

That's the worst part, Arkitekt. It used to be a pretty good board. Lotion isn't the only offender, but he is one of the worst.

Lotion, do you even realize that most reviews DO mention the story, and they aren't saying how flawed it is. This is an imagined shortcoming, blown up under a hater-microscope the size of Jupiter. The story isn't Hemingway, but nothing IS Hemingway except Hemingway.

Of course, I don't hate the story, so clearly my opinion is inherently wrong.

When you and Arhitekt finish patting yourself on the back about how everoyne who disagrees with you is the worst scum of humintiy, I'll be here, blowing holes in your arguments...

The shortcomings aren't immagined. The bad writing is there. Some people just couldn't care less about it or can't even recognize it. That however, is not my problem.

[Phaelducan]

iakus wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

I disagree with your assessment of the Lazarus Project. It's explained fairly thoroughly, at least what the project is. It doesn't get into how it works in great detail, but it's not a full-on "wtf is this thing" moment.

I think I missed that part in the game.  All I got out of the explanations was a high number of credits and a vague "biosynthetic fusion" term.  

Well, biosynthetic fusion, combined with the nanites is a fairly clear picture of the gist of Lazarus. They don't get into specifics, I agree, but there is enough information there to assess the general picture of what the project is.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


When you and Arhitekt finish patting yourself on the back about how everoyne who disagrees with you is the worst scum of humintiy, I'll be here, blowing holes in your arguments...

The shortcomings aren't immagined. The bad writing is there. Some people just couldn't care less about it or can't even recognize it. That however, is not my problem.

That's what you're telling everyone, yet you never do it.

The best you can do is making up some ridiculous claim and then say that you destroyed everyone's argument, as if you're the one to decide that.



P.S: You're not.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

TIM: "This is a relic from a battle that was waged when mammals took their first steps upon the Earth."

Of course, TIM was a bit off there: the origin of mammals dates back to around 200 million years ago. Not that that matters as far as the derelict's age goes.

I wince every time TIM says that... 

Meh, he was only off by one order of magnitude.

LoL.  

[Phaelducan]

Just ignore him, he has nothing to add, and it wastes everyone's time sorting through his posts. As with any troll, as soon as you stop engaging, they get bored and leave.

[Iakus]

100k wrote...

We can rename them as "family issues", and occasionally "personal issues" then. Because that's essentially what they are.

But, Smud is correct, I think, when he claims that none of those things should matter during a suicide mission. Miranda is a professional. Jacob is a proffessional. Kasumi is a proffessional. To make their lives hinge upon personal conflicts doesn't make any sense to me. Thane's been killing for 30 some years, right? And now he'll die because he's distracted by what his son -- 50 light years away -- might be doing?

I know, I know, even the most professional people have human elements to them. I accept that. But, with the exception of Grunt (who is a survivor/professional) there is little to no rationale for why these in game SM deaths occur. 

Smudboy proposes making the LMs into ME2's remaining story -- and erasing half the cast because they are (to him) either comical, or redundant. 

I disagree with him for two reasons:

1) TIM doesn't know how Thane's abilities will come into play in the months that make up ME2. He doesn't know how Archangels talents will come into play. Neither does Shepard. Neither does Miranda. All he knows is that there might be situations where the assassin's abilities might be needed. 

As such, in my opinion, it would've been far to...convinient for situations where an assassin would be uniquely needed to occur. Shepard just happens to recruit Thane, and Krios's abilites just happen to be needed at this particular point of the plot? I just don't buy that.

2) Smudboy's views on removing a comical or redundant character undermine his rewrite of a plot that consists of several SMs occuring before the stories climax. What if Garrus died at a certain point in the story? Then he can't fulfill his role later on, right? 

By instead having the large cast that we do have, multiple deaths could always be powerful, without damning the player to completely fvck up later in the story. Garrus's death could be powerful, but also acceptable, considering that Legion and Zaeed seem to have similar abilities. 

I proposed keeping the LMs in the game as is, and adding something akin to an X Men Danger Room challenge that shows that, through cooperation and team work, the team could survive the SMs. 

Now, I know what the counter arguments are:

They're already extraordinary individuals, so why should they need to train?

Because they are all so skilled that their abilities to function in a squad could be extremely hindered. Can you imagine the speed and agility of Kasumi distracting the military ravaged Garrus? Both are exceptional combatants, but their skill is so great that it could be damaging.

They're professionals, so they would already function well.

This is only true for Miranda, Kasumi, Jacob, Garrus, Mordin, Tali, and Thane. 

Samara, Legion, Zaeed (yes, Zaeed), Jack, and Grunt, are all survivors. Experience and lone-riding made these characters into the people they are, not unit cohesion. Even Zaeed is more survivor than professional. Jack and Grunt probably wouldn't follow anyone but Shepard. Legion is a (sapient) machine with a reputation of destroying colonies, and sparking organic-synthetic conflict. He's not going to be respected as much as the others. Samara follows a code, and is sworn to Shepard.

On top of that, look at that top list of proffessionals -- Thane is highly anti social (self admitted). Miranda may govern the respect of humans, but the aliens don't like her -- and she herself doubts her ability to lead at one point. Kasumi is not only a loner, but she's also more of a thief than combatant.

So, on that list, the only people I can see as fully well rounded are Garrus (who was recruited by accident), Jacob, and Tali (also semi recruited by accident).

You can sort of see how not only putting together the best football players on the same team solves the problem of having a potentially bad team. Training is also important. As such, some kind of training program could allow your squad of, for lack of a better word, "misfits", grow as a unit, and if you're paragon, as a family. We could see character growth outside of the Shepard + squadmate exclusive interaction. We could see how egos sort of melted away in favor of friendship -- or at least professional respect. 

Naturally, some characters just wouldn't get along. Thane and Jacob, Jack and Miranda, etc. But having the best team's fates defined by how they function together as a unit makes 100x more sense than their personal problems -- which are grossly equlipsed by the threat of a Reaper invasion.

Very well put.  

For myself, I would have settled just for having these loyalty/focus/personal missions somehow tie into the "getting the team ready" aspect of the game.  Encountering these problems over the course of gathering supplies or information.  I mentioned some time ago the idea of the Normandy having to travel to teh Flotilla to get the schematics for the shield upgrade, and getting caught up in the fallout of Rael'Zorah's experiments from ther.  Or combing through the Teltin facility for information on an experimental amp and have Jack decide she wants to nuke the place.  Maybe have Mordin learn of Maelon's disappearance while making some inquiries with old STG contacts digging up Collector information.  Something that would make these events seem like natural exptensions of the story rather than a series of random events.

Modifié par iakus, 20 septembre 2011 - 08:57 .

[Xeranx]

Phaelducan wrote...

/facepalm Stop, just stop. The effing data IS there, there IS an industry standard. You are being obstinate on purpose. You want to believe it's MORE likely that the 90% approval rating is false and that we are looking at a +/- 50% margin of error? Fine believe it. That's absolutely idiotic, but go ahead and believe it.

I'd rather go with a +/- 5% and assume that of the thousands of sampled reviews, about 80% minimum are positive, and we can be 95% confident that the if we asked another 50k people, or 500k, or 5 million, that the standard deviation would fall within that range.

Believe what you want, I'm done talking about stats and reviews. I'm tired of arguing with ostriches who refuse to take their heads out of the sand. So ok, you want to be right? Go ahead and think that the 90% approvals are all false, lying, and can't be counted, and that it's more plausible that everyone else thinks the game sucks. Bully for you.

Mind if I borrow this: /facepalm.

A few pages ago you acquiesced to the point of there being no standard.  At least one other person mentioned there is no standard for reviewing a game.  I pointed out at least one very credible review group in G4 which doesn't follow a standard of review that's in line with other review groups.  I asked you for proof of standardization and you declined talking about common sense.  If it were common sense then I would know of it.  I, the ignorant, one asked you to share your knowledge with me, but your answer was: "live in thy ignorance.  If thou can't see what I see then that is thy problem".  If that is your answer,  then you have no business being in this discussion or any discussion where you would give that kind of reply.  

On the topic of a 90% approval rating, I never said that the ratings were false.  I said that those reviews are opinions for the most part and that they don't all measure up with other groups.  Tell me where I'm wrong there.

You mentioned millions of people like ME2 and I asked where did you get your result?  You then tell me 2500 is a good sample size, but you have no sample size for millions of users that you collated or any way to claim a website collated for the purpose of measuring satisfaction/dissatisfaction so that you can use the information correctly.  And you want me to believe your claim?  That is idiotic.

If you are not prepared to defend your claims then do not make them because someone may and/or will call them to question. 

[Someone With Mass]

Phaelducan wrote...

Just ignore him, he has nothing to add, and it wastes everyone's time sorting through his posts. As with any troll, as soon as you stop engaging, they get bored and leave.

I think that's the fun part. I get to snicker at him while he thinks he's something grand.

[Arkitekt]

100k wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
100k, I called you out on your shenanigans, not for the obvious fact that ME2 is far from a perfect game. But very well, let's get the party going in another direction.

What about the ridiculous smudargument that the team mates don't need to solve their own "daddy issues" because they are "professionals", before going into what might well be their final mission?

Just the naming "daddy issues" is already a mass failure...

We can rename them as "family issues", and occasionally "personal issues" then. Because that's essentially what they are.

But, Smud is correct, I think, when he claims that none of those things should matter during a suicide mission. Miranda is a professional. Jacob is a proffessional. Kasumi is a proffessional. To make their lives hinge upon personal conflicts doesn't make any sense to me. Thane's been killing for 30 some years, right? And now he'll die because he's distracted by what his son -- 50 light years away -- might be doing?

Ok, let's do this. My body is ready.

Now, focus on these basic logical points:

They are going to do a suicide mission. It means they will probably die, and they know it. They are "professionals", meaning that they are paid to do what they do. "Professionals" do not equate to "machine zombies". I'm a professional, and if I have a serious personal problem, I'll lose my focus, it's as obvious as anything can ever be.

There is never the mentioning that without the loyalty missions, your comrades won't do their missions as best as they can. Quite the opposite. They have their own issues, but they follow you through hell. They show their professionalism by engaging this suicide mission. The only problem is that they will lack the necessary focus to survive the mission.

That's it. And it's amazingly simple and amazingly correct. It's probably the least problematic feature of Mass Effect 2.

I know, I know, even the most professional people have human elements to them. I accept that. But, with the exception of Grunt (who is a survivor/professional) there is little to no rationale for why these in game SM deaths occur.

I don't understand the exception here. Even Legion shows that he can be irrational at times in a dialogue with Shepard.

Smudboy proposes making the LMs into ME2's remaining story -- and erasing half the cast because they are (to him) either comical, or redundant. 

I disagree with him for two reasons:

1) TIM doesn't know how Thane's abilities will come into play in the months that make up ME2. He doesn't know how Archangels talents will come into play. Neither does Shepard. Neither does Miranda. All he knows is that there might be situations where the assassin's abilities might be needed. 

As such, in my opinion, it would've been far to...convinient for situations where an assassin would be uniquely needed to occur. Shepard just happens to recruit Thane, and Krios's abilites just happen to be needed at this particular point of the plot? I just don't buy that.

2) Smudboy's views on removing a comical or redundant character undermine his rewrite of a plot that consists of several SMs occuring before the stories climax. What if Garrus died at a certain point in the story? Then he can't fulfill his role later on, right?

There is an obvious third point. Players, which is you can happen to love the way Thane fights (his powers, weapons, etc.). This means you will choose Thane to go with you. This alone is sufficient reason to have him available. Idk if Thane is "necessary" to the plot, never tried to end ME2 without him, but he could be one of those which you can happen to ignore to pick up. And if you do so, you may do so because you don't even want him on your own team.

It's your choice. That's what the game's all about.

By instead having the large cast that we do have, multiple deaths could always be powerful, without damning the player to completely fvck up later in the story. Garrus's death could be powerful, but also acceptable, considering that Legion and Zaeed seem to have similar abilities. 

I proposed keeping the LMs in the game as is, and adding something akin to an X Men Danger Room challenge that shows that, through cooperation and team work, the team could survive the SMs. 

Now, I know what the counter arguments are:

They're already extraordinary individuals, so why should they need to train?

Because they are all so skilled that their abilities to function in a squad could be extremely hindered. Can you imagine the speed and agility of Kasumi distracting the military ravaged Garrus? Both are exceptional combatants, but their skill is so great that it could be damaging.

They're professionals, so they would already function well.

This is only true for Miranda, Kasumi, Jacob, Garrus, Mordin, Tali, and Thane. 

Samara, Legion, Zaeed (yes, Zaeed), Jack, and Grunt, are all survivors. Experience and lone-riding made these characters into the people they are, not unit cohesion. Even Zaeed is more survivor than professional. Jack and Grunt probably wouldn't follow anyone but Shepard. Legion is a (sapient) machine with a reputation of destroying colonies, and sparking organic-synthetic conflict. He's not going to be respected as much as the others. Samara follows a code, and is sworn to Shepard.

On top of that, look at that top list of proffessionals -- Thane is highly anti social (self admitted). Miranda may govern the respect of humans, but the aliens don't like her -- and she herself doubts her ability to lead at one point. Kasumi is not only a loner, but she's also more of a thief than combatant.

So, on that list, the only people I can see as fully well rounded are Garrus (who was recruited by accident), Jacob, and Tali (also semi recruited by accident).

You can sort of see how not only putting together the best football players on the same team solves the problem of having a potentially bad team. Training is also important. As such, some kind of training program could allow your squad of, for lack of a better word, "misfits", grow as a unit, and if you're paragon, as a family. We could see character growth outside of the Shepard + squadmate exclusive interaction. We could see how egos sort of melted away in favor of friendship -- or at least professional respect. 

Naturally, some characters just wouldn't get along. Thane and Jacob, Jack and Miranda, etc. But having the best team's fates defined by how they function together as a unit makes 100x more sense than their personal problems -- which are grossly equlipsed by the threat of a Reaper invasion.

As I said, it's your choice. Also this: your idea may be interesting, but it wouldn't be ME2. It would be a completely different game. ME2 could be anything else. Anything. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]111987 wrote...
Anyways, you have to remember this is a game, and while Bioware tries to give us as much choice has possible, the story still has to progress. You cannot do every single thing that you actually would. For example, there are some people on these forums who wanted to join Saren in ME1, or join Cerberus in ME3, but that isn't an option. We are still limited by the confines of the game, and complaining about every thing that we cannot do doesn't help. [/quote]

And it's the job of the writers and developers to make the choices credible and sensible. To make the story flow properly. If half hte galaxy has to be handed the idiot ball for hte story to progress, you're doing something wrong.



[quote]
1. Shepard doesn't know how strong the shields are...for all he knows, they could be as strong as a Reaper shield, and this attacking it on Horizon would simply result in either the Normandy's destruction, or the Collector's leaving. Since this is a video game, the devs are going to choose the option that allows for more game play. It also makes sense to avoid the confrontation.[/quote]

I disagree. If hte guardian turrets damanged it and caused it to flee, it can't be that powerfull. Besides, if it's too pwoerfull now, it's too powerfull later.

[quote]
3. Point is, the simplest explanation is that the Collectors can track the Normandy. A hidden tracking beacon, or a traitor, would have been explained.[/quote]

Disagree again. It's not the simplest explanation simply because you say so.

[quote]
4. GARDIAN turrets on ships are meant for fighting off fighters and interceptors and torpedoes. The massive turrets on Horizon were obviously stronger than the ship-based ones.[/quote]

Sauce?



[quote]
Shepard had to go in to stop the abductions of the colonists. Once again, this is a game, and you are in a sense limited. Your Shepard DOES care about stopping the abductions, even if you wish that you could roleplay differently or not.

Shepard couldn't have avoided the confrontation with the Omega 4 Relay because he has no way of knowing whether the ship was there or not. Even if a probe did get through far enough to tell, it would only see the front of the base, and there could easily have been a docking station in the back.[/quote]

You can stop the abductions by blowing the collector ship sky-high too.
sheppard wanting ot stop hte collectors and saving the crew makes sense. Takign too many unnecessary risks does not.

[quote]
Finally, scouting ahead doesn't enhance the plot or the writing. The abduction of our crew is intended to give us a sense of tension and panic, and wants for the player to want to go through the Omega 4 Relay. Sending in probes or scout ships ahead of time grinds the pace of the plot to a screeching halt.[/quote]

And solving daddy issue beofre going in does not grind the plot to a halt?
Diagree again - scouting ahead would enhance the plot and writing. Even moreso when there's no set time for the scouting to take place. It could take place before the crew abduction..or during. Heck, Shep doesn't have to do anything - TIM can do the info gathering.

[quote]
And in any case, those scout ships and probes would be destroyed before yielding any useful data.[/quote]

unsopported assumptions

[quote]
Finally, by sending probes and scout ships through the relay, the Collectors now know that our IFF works properly and that we can launch an assault at them at any time, and so we lose whatever element of surprise we have.[/qutoe]

They knew we have a reaper-based AI and IFF yet didnt' do anything.
You're not decreasing your chances of sucess by sending probes in really.

[Iakus]

Phaelducan wrote...

Well, biosynthetic fusion, combined with the nanites is a fairly clear picture of the gist of Lazarus. They don't get into specifics, I agree, but there is enough information there to assess the general picture of what the project is.

I interpret biosynthetic fusion as a kind of cybernetics.  I can get how that could restore Shepard's body to functionality.  Including the use of nanotechnology.  I can see that being used to save Shepard's life or to sustain him.  That gets us as far as Adam Jensen.  Or JC Denton.  But neither of them died.  That's a big leap to make, in particular since the focus was so strong on bringing Shepard back exactly as before.  That's the part that's really hard to swallow (like I said, I'll allow that Shepard's body was salvageable after the Normandy'd destruction)

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaelducan wrote...
Beyond that, the problem with the discussion, which I agree should be the main point, is that the smudboy worshippers continue to completely ignore any attempt at rebuttal. I'll admit flaws in my arguments, I would ask for the same courtesy from any opposition. We aren't getting that.

Which would be funny if I saw any truth in that statement there....

[Thompson family]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


...  I'll be here, blowing holes in your arguments...

That's what you're telling everyone, yet you never do it.

The best you can do is making up some ridiculous claim and then say that you destroyed everyone's argument, as if you're the one to decide that.

That's a little harsh, SWM. I remember at least one argument that LS rebutted rather well ....


... of course, it was his own argument that he'd misattributed to me.


I could probably find the link if you haven't seen it.


EDIT: Well, well. Look what I just found

Modifié par Thompson family, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:13 .

[Someone With Mass]

I just love how some people act like they know how the psyche of an individual works and how it reacts to certain situations and then acts like it's possible to overcome an obstacle by ignoring it or telling the person in question to man up and to simply not think about it.

Especially alien psyches.

[Phaelducan]

Xeranx wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

/facepalm Stop, just stop. The effing data IS there, there IS an industry standard. You are being obstinate on purpose. You want to believe it's MORE likely that the 90% approval rating is false and that we are looking at a +/- 50% margin of error? Fine believe it. That's absolutely idiotic, but go ahead and believe it.

I'd rather go with a +/- 5% and assume that of the thousands of sampled reviews, about 80% minimum are positive, and we can be 95% confident that the if we asked another 50k people, or 500k, or 5 million, that the standard deviation would fall within that range.

Believe what you want, I'm done talking about stats and reviews. I'm tired of arguing with ostriches who refuse to take their heads out of the sand. So ok, you want to be right? Go ahead and think that the 90% approvals are all false, lying, and can't be counted, and that it's more plausible that everyone else thinks the game sucks. Bully for you.

Mind if I borrow this: /facepalm.

A few pages ago you acquiesced to the point of there being no standard.  At least one other person mentioned there is no standard for reviewing a game.  I pointed out at least one very credible review group in G4 which doesn't follow a standard of review that's in line with other review groups.  I asked you for proof of standardization and you declined talking about common sense.  If it were common sense then I would know of it.  I, the ignorant, one asked you to share your knowledge with me, but your answer was: "live in thy ignorance.  If thou can't see what I see then that is thy problem".  If that is your answer,  then you have no business being in this discussion or any discussion where you would give that kind of reply.  

On the topic of a 90% approval rating, I never said that the ratings were false.  I said that those reviews are opinions for the most part and that they don't all measure up with other groups.  Tell me where I'm wrong there.

You mentioned millions of people like ME2 and I asked where did you get your result?  You then tell me 2500 is a good sample size, but you have no sample size for millions of users that you collated or any way to claim a website collated for the purpose of measuring satisfaction/dissatisfaction so that you can use the information correctly.  And you want me to believe your claim?  That is idiotic.

If you are not prepared to defend your claims then do not make them because someone may and/or will call them to question. 

I'd just copy and paste the last post, but I don't think it will make any difference. No one samples millions of people for anything. The closest thing to that is a general election. For all other purposes, 2500 is a completely valid and quite large sample size. If you want to call into question the validity of all polling and statistical analysis? Feel free, but then it's about you, and not the sample size. 2500 is fine. Don't believe me? Go buy a stats book and read up on it. It's not my job to verify scientific methods to you. News services all over the world use samples of 1000 to represent millions. 2500 is perfectly reasonable to sample for 6 million. That's what margins of error and confidence levels indicate. I don't have to defend anything to you, I've put the numbers up, you clearly don't care. End of discussion.

[Arkitekt]

Phaelducan is 100% correct in his conversation and I'm also slightly irritated at Xeranx's combination of arrogance with ignorance on the subject matter. With a 2500 sample size, the error margin of its poll is quite small indeed.

[Phaelducan]

iakus wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Well, biosynthetic fusion, combined with the nanites is a fairly clear picture of the gist of Lazarus. They don't get into specifics, I agree, but there is enough information there to assess the general picture of what the project is.

I interpret biosynthetic fusion as a kind of cybernetics.  I can get how that could restore Shepard's body to functionality.  Including the use of nanotechnology.  I can see that being used to save Shepard's life or to sustain him.  That gets us as far as Adam Jensen.  Or JC Denton.  But neither of them died.  That's a big leap to make, in particular since the focus was so strong on bringing Shepard back exactly as before.  That's the part that's really hard to swallow (like I said, I'll allow that Shepard's body was salvageable after the Normandy'd destruction)

Even money says Adam Jensen flatlined, at least for a little while, but I understand what you are saying. The key issue is how long Shep was dead, and in what state of decay his brain was. We don't know, but assuming he wasn't dead for long before he was put on ice (agreed, these are all assumptions) it's not much different than Deus Ex. Body gets toasted, fix it with tech and let it heal. That's easy. Restoring the mind is harder (given our current medical standards), but again we don't know the status of Shep's brain.

Just as it's easy for the detractors to assume it's irretrievable, it's easy for me to assume it isn't.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaelducan wrote...
No, we don't know that. The human brain has never been recovered and recreated to the extent we are referencing. It is entirely possible that if the brain had any intact anything left, given the short amount of time, Lazerus could have completely restored Shep to the state they were in before the attack.

You "know" nothing in this case, it's all conjecture and theoretical, and you are applying 20th/early 21th century medicine and science as your basis.

The wrokings of the human brain won't change in the future. It works as it works.

And there isn't any scientific of medical discovery or technolgoy that can re-create something from nothing. Perdiod.
FTL is rock-hard science compared to that.

[aznricepuff]

Thompson family wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


...  I'll be here, blowing holes in your arguments...

That's what you're telling everyone, yet you never do it.

The best you can do is making up some ridiculous claim and then say that you destroyed everyone's argument, as if you're the one to decide that.

That's a little harsh, SWM. I remember at least one argument that LS rebutted rather well ....


... of course, it was his own argument that he'd misattributed to me.


I could probably find the link if you haven't seen it.


EDIT: Well, well. Look what I just found

LOL. You got to hand it to him though. He's got some serious balls for trying to pull that off.

[Iakus]

Phaelducan wrote...

Even money says Adam Jensen flatlined, at least for a little while, but I understand what you are saying. The key issue is how long Shep was dead, and in what state of decay his brain was. We don't know, but assuming he wasn't dead for long before he was put on ice (agreed, these are all assumptions) it's not much different than Deus Ex. Body gets toasted, fix it with tech and let it heal. That's easy. Restoring the mind is harder (given our current medical standards), but again we don't know the status of Shep's brain.

Just as it's easy for the detractors to assume it's irretrievable, it's easy for me to assume it isn't.

There's a world of difference (to me anyway) between flatlining on an operating table surrounded by doctors, scientists,  and medical equipment and spending several weeks untended on a frozen wasteland of a planet before scientists get to work on the body.  It's the not knowing the details and having to assume all sorts of nonzero percentage possibilities that strains credibility. A few lines explaining how the mind was preserved or restored would have done wonders to make me think this wasn't pulled from some orifice or other purely for cinematic purposes.

[Thompson family]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
.... And there isn't any scientific of medical discovery or technolgoy that can re-create something from nothing. Perdiod.
FTL is rock-hard science compared to that.

Therefore, Shep's brain had to be not only physically intact but still funtioning, at the comatose level at least.

I'm not arguing here, LS. I'm accepting your conclusion, that once the brain completely stops functioning, it's "wiped," to use the term more commonly associated with computer hard drives.

There is some sort of stasis program built in to armor, (combat suits, whatever.) Why? Because otherwise, the Unity power would not work and you could not revive "dead" squadmates.

Just saying. The whole argument about wheter "is the head dead yet," as I've acknowledge before, is ludicrous.

Modifié par Thompson family, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:28 .

[Thompson family]

aznricepuff wrote...


LOL. You got to hand it to him though. He's got some serious balls for trying to pull that off.

Mighty right there, aznricepuff. Lack of balls was never his problem. I'll gladly give him that.

[Arkitekt]

Thompson family wrote...

aznricepuff wrote...


LOL. You got to hand it to him though. He's got some serious balls for trying to pull that off.

Mighty right there, aznricepuff. Lack of balls was never his problem. I'll gladly give him that.

Perhaps he bought them. Quite expensive, the full package. Or so I heard.:innocent:

[Phaelducan]

iakus wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Even money says Adam Jensen flatlined, at least for a little while, but I understand what you are saying. The key issue is how long Shep was dead, and in what state of decay his brain was. We don't know, but assuming he wasn't dead for long before he was put on ice (agreed, these are all assumptions) it's not much different than Deus Ex. Body gets toasted, fix it with tech and let it heal. That's easy. Restoring the mind is harder (given our current medical standards), but again we don't know the status of Shep's brain.

Just as it's easy for the detractors to assume it's irretrievable, it's easy for me to assume it isn't.

There's a world of difference (to me anyway) between flatlining on an operating table surrounded by doctors, scientists,  and medical equipment and spending several weeks untended on a frozen wasteland of a planet before scientists get to work on the body.  It's the not knowing the details and having to assume all sorts of nonzero percentage possibilities that strains credibility. A few lines explaining how the mind was preserved or restored would have done wonders to make me think this wasn't pulled from some orifice or other purely for cinematic purposes.

Shrug, I disagree. To me it's no more inexplicable then many other ME oddities. Beyond that, the rate of decay would be really slow if he was literally frozen. As to straining credibility? I agree that as a SOP Lazarus wouldn't be realistic, but that is primary about time and resources. One time? One attempt? Shrug, why not.

[Thompson family]

Arkitekt wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

aznricepuff wrote...


LOL. You got to hand it to him though. He's got some serious balls for trying to pull that off.

Mighty right there, aznricepuff. Lack of balls was never his problem. I'll gladly give him that.

Perhaps he bought them. Quite expensive, the full package. Or so I heard.:innocent:

Something like 50K credits for a full quad, I think, but don't really remember.