6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...
2) Trust in troops helps win battles sure.  But so does having bigger guns, stronger armor, and an understanding of the means and motives of your enemy.  ME2 focused so much on this nebulous "focus" aspect that it almost completely ignored the more practical aspects of combat.

3) I'm not questioning being able to research improvements.  I'm questioning that the methods of uprading the Normandy is so simplistic in comparison to the loyalty missions.  You never even have to leave the ship!  IMO, every single upgrade your squadmates can give you, be it a personal upgrade or one for the Normandy, should have tied into their loyalty mission in some way.  That would at least have given these missions the illusion of actually preparing for a fight with the Collectors.

I think this is along the lines of what you had suggested previously, but... 

Let's take Jack for example.  What if, instead of Jack wanting to blow up the Teltin facility, Shep went to Jack and said "We need your biotics to be as effective as possible, is there anything you could use", and Jack then suggests going to see if any of the research still exists in the facility she escaped from... and that's why you go back there.  It's a more direct and mission-oriented reason to take the time to go there.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Uh, how are Reapers constructed and what are they exactly? What's the point of the Terminator? Why do they need human pulp to "build" it? What's the purpose of the Terminator? Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack? How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so? Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers? Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use? Did Shep find some info about the Reapers? About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

The two bolded parts do have definitive answers.
1. Husks are deployed by the Collectors on Horizon.
2. They were repurposed by the Reapers and are used as slave labor/tools/proxies.

Then again 2 out of 14 isn't exactly a good track record.

1. Horizon happens later. At the time that Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus he has no idea whether Reapers are involved, and apparently (despite vowing to find a way to stop the Reapers at the end of ME1) he doesn't care ("I just want to find out what happened to those missing colonists", he says).

And since you mentioned the husks...

If the husks constitute proof of Reaper involvement then why doesn't Shepard point to the piles of dead husks scattered all over the floor when talking to the VS?

Because Shep and the VS are caught in a moment of stupid for the sake of plot... 

[Shepard the Leper]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The two bolded parts do have definitive answers.
1. Husks are deployed by the Collectors on Horizon.
2. They were repurposed by the Reapers and are used as slave labor/tools/proxies.

Then again 2 out of 14 isn't exactly a good track record.

1. True, but that's after Shepard joined Cerberus.

2. Possibly. But it would be interesting to know why they are needed to support the Reapers. If Shepard had found intel about the Reaper's need to "feed" organics to stay "alive" for the next extermination fest would be something.

[Sgt Stryker]

That wasn't really the point of my post. Shepard the Leper's was asking if any of his questions were addressed at any point during ME2, and a few of them were in fact addressed. Just a few, though.

Besides, what would you have Shepard do instead of investigating Freedom's Progress? Try to get back into the Alliance or Spectres and keep chasing after random geth?

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...
2) Trust in troops helps win battles sure.  But so does having bigger guns, stronger armor, and an understanding of the means and motives of your enemy.  ME2 focused so much on this nebulous "focus" aspect that it almost completely ignored the more practical aspects of combat.

3) I'm not questioning being able to research improvements.  I'm questioning that the methods of uprading the Normandy is so simplistic in comparison to the loyalty missions.  You never even have to leave the ship!  IMO, every single upgrade your squadmates can give you, be it a personal upgrade or one for the Normandy, should have tied into their loyalty mission in some way.  That would at least have given these missions the illusion of actually preparing for a fight with the Collectors.

I think this is along the lines of what you had suggested previously, but... 

Let's take Jack for example.  What if, instead of Jack wanting to blow up the Teltin facility, Shep went to Jack and said "We need your biotics to be as effective as possible, is there anything you could use", and Jack then suggests going to see if any of the research still exists in the facility she escaped from... and that's why you go back there.  It's a more direct and mission-oriented reason to take the time to go there.  

That is precisely what I mean.  And while there, we go through Jack's horrific childhood, meet Aresh, and Jack decides she wants to blow up the facility when we're done.  Personal mission.  Practical reason.  Everybody wins.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Interloper wrote...
3-My point is that even though everyone agrees ME2 had interesting characters, some say it's all for naught if it doesn't have a perfect story. I'm not saying that the plot isn't a problem, but the stance seems to be among some that since the characters are not fully integrated into the plot their excellence is completely pointless. Erm...huh?

For the plot? Yes, they are.
Their "excellence" is disconnected with the main plot. I though that was the point.

4-Smudboy does not voice "opinions." He voices so-called "facts." Which is the problem. If he hates the game, fine. But don't say that from the pedestal of universal truth. Which is what he does.

And if I were to think that ME2 being badly written is a undenaible fact and universal truth, what then?

[The Interloper]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

1. Uh, how are Reapers constructed?
2. What's the point of the Terminator?
3. Why do they need human pulp to "build" it?
4. Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack?
5. How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so?
6. Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers?
7. Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use?
8. Did Shep find some info about the Reapers?
9.About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

1.With organics, appearantly. What part of that was confusing?
2. Reproduction. Beyond that Harbinger also hints, "salvation," and while that could be taken several ways, it narrows things down beyond mere baby making.
3. Really, if you can accept there are robot gods, you should be able to accept they're fueled by massive quantities organic matter.
4. Arrival says "no." It was not meant to be related to the "how" of the reaper invasion. It was for the "why."
5. Colonies are dissapearing. Someone killed shepard just before they started dissapearing. The reapers are still out there. We know they aren't done yet. Put two and two together.
6. Because they're mindless slaves. That was made pretty dang clear. Mordin talked about it for 30 seconds.
7. For the same reason they needed Saren and the geth- do the preparation work, bring down the enemy from the inside. It was stated outright that the collectors were repurposed into reaper builders after they failed to become one themselves. It's also pretty clear that they were supposed to be operating during the reaper invasion until soveriegn was killed, and that they're being repurposed as saboteurs as well.
8. What they're made from. Why they want the cycle. That's pretty important.
9. The goal was clarified. Of course it wasn't defined completely, but ME1 skipped over why the reapers want to attack the galaxy and destroy organics in the first place and nobody complained. The rest are obviously being saved for another day.

You could argue that they weren't exposited on enough, but I'm pretty sure we got all the basics here.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Uh, how are Reapers constructed and what are they exactly? What's the point of the Terminator? Why do they need human pulp to "build" it? What's the purpose of the Terminator? Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack? How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so? Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers? Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use? Did Shep find some info about the Reapers? About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

The two bolded parts do have definitive answers.
1. Husks are deployed by the Collectors on Horizon.
2. They were repurposed by the Reapers and are used as slave labor/tools/proxies.

Then again 2 out of 14 isn't exactly a good track record.

Number 1 is wrong. There is no obious connection between the husks and the reapers. Listen to the comments your squad memebrs make then..no a single one makes any connection to the reapers.
Niehter Shep, nor any team member considered the h8unks anything more han Collector experiments.

[Shepard the Leper]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Besides, what would you have Shepard do instead of investigating Freedom's Progress? Try to get back into the Alliance or Spectres and keep chasing after random geth?

Anything except joining a sadistic group of extremists

Shepard could have been send to FP by the Alliance. Entire human colonies disapearing sounds like a job for a spectre to me.

[onelifecrisis]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Besides, what would you have Shepard do instead of investigating Freedom's Progress? Try to get back into the Alliance or Spectres and keep chasing after random geth?

In this theoretical alternative plot why are you restricting what can be changed? Shepard chasing geth after the Citadel attack was part of the ME2 plot. A bad part, as it flies in the face of Shepard's heroic vow at the end of ME1. If we can change one part of the ME2 plot, why not another?

Edit:
And by the way, yes, if I could *only* change Shepard's available choices when talking to TIM at the start then my first option would be to have Shepard contact the Alliance and find out what, if anything, they are doing about the Reapers.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 24 septembre 2011 - 08:02 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Interloper wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

1. Uh, how are Reapers constructed?
2. What's the point of the Terminator?
3. Why do they need human pulp to "build" it?
4. Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack?
5. How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so?
6. Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers?
7. Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use?
8. Did Shep find some info about the Reapers?
9.About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

1.With organics, appearantly. What part of that was confusing?
2. Reproduction. Beyond that Harbinger also hints, "salvation," and while that could be taken several ways, it narrows things down beyond mere baby making.
3. Really, if you can accept there are robot gods, you should be able to accept they're fueled by massive quantities organic matter.
4. Arrival says "no." It was not meant to be related to the "how" of the reaper invasion. It was for the "why."
5. Colonies are dissapearing. Someone killed shepard just before they started dissapearing. The reapers are still out there. We know they aren't done yet. Put two and two together.
6. Because they're mindless slaves. That was made pretty dang clear. Mordin talked about it for 30 seconds.
7. For the same reason they needed Saren and the geth- do the preparation work, bring down the enemy from the inside. It was stated outright that the collectors were repurposed into reaper builders after they failed to become one themselves. It's also pretty clear that they were supposed to be operating during the reaper invasion until soveriegn was killed, and that they're being repurposed as saboteurs as well.
8. What they're made from. Why they want the cycle. That's pretty important.
9. The goal was clarified. Of course it wasn't defined completely, but ME1 skipped over why the reapers want to attack the galaxy and destroy organics in the first place and nobody complained. The rest are obviously being saved for another day.

You could argue that they weren't exposited on enough, but I'm pretty sure we got all the basics here.

1. Everything.
2. Makes no sense.
3. No. What makes you think that?
5. there's no dots to connect. You're reaching.

[The Interloper]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Interloper wrote...
3-My point is that even though everyone agrees ME2 had interesting characters, some say it's all for naught if it doesn't have a perfect story. I'm not saying that the plot isn't a problem, but the stance seems to be among some that since the characters are not fully integrated into the plot their excellence is completely pointless. Erm...huh?

1. For the plot? Yes, they are.
Their "excellence" is disconnected with the main plot. I though that was the point.

4-Smudboy does not voice "opinions." He voices so-called "facts." Which is the problem. If he hates the game, fine. But don't say that from the pedestal of universal truth. Which is what he does.

2. And if I were to think that ME2 being badly written is a undenaible fact and universal truth, what then?

1.But they're not disconnected from the overall story, the overall experience. The tie to the immediate goal (collectors) is loose, yes, but the connection is still there and last time I checked, episodic storylines tended to work that way.

The reasoning seems to be not heavily directly relevant to main plot=doesn't count=worthless.

2. You try and prove it. Which Smudboy did. And failed. And continued to insist on pure objectivism.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1. Everything.
2. Makes no sense.
3. No. What makes you think that?
5. there's no dots to connect. You're reaching.

1. What things? Explain, by all means.

2. Why not?

3. What, you're willing to suspend disbelief about robot gods, but not their use of organic matter as fuel/blood?Everything else is fine but that last part is just too much of a stretch for you? Why? Or do you think the reapers in general are stupid too? In which case what are you doing here?

Feel free to elaborate on any of this.

5. I am not. Shepard knows (from the visions, I think) and has stated in the end of ME1 that he knows the reapers are still out there and aren't finished yet. TIM agrees. The colony abductions are a disturbing unexplained pheneomena. Plus there was the assassination, which ensured shepard was dead while the attacks were happening. As presumably nothing else suspicious was going on, the colony attacks are object of interest #1. The logic plays out on screen. Is it ironclad? No, but investigation and following-up is the whole point and that's the obvious thing to investigate. Frankly, the colony attacks are a far better lead on the enemy then "oh, we saw some geth by feros. Go check it out!"

[Shepard the Leper]

The Interloper wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

1. Uh, how are Reapers constructed?
2. What's the point of the Terminator?
3. Why do they need human pulp to "build" it?
4. Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack?
5. How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so?
6. Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers?
7. Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use?
8. Did Shep find some info about the Reapers?
9.About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

1.With organics, appearantly. What part of that was confusing?
2. Reproduction. Beyond that Harbinger also hints, "salvation," and while that could be taken several ways, it narrows things down beyond mere baby making.
3. Really, if you can accept there are robot gods, you should be able to accept they're fueled by massive quantities organic matter.
4. Arrival says "no." It was not meant to be related to the "how" of the reaper invasion. It was for the "why."
5. Colonies are dissapearing. Someone killed shepard just before they started dissapearing. The reapers are still out there. We know they aren't done yet. Put two and two together.
6. Because they're mindless slaves. That was made pretty dang clear. Mordin talked about it for 30 seconds.
7. For the same reason they needed Saren and the geth- do the preparation work, bring down the enemy from the inside. It was stated outright that the collectors were repurposed into reaper builders after they failed to become one themselves. It's also pretty clear that they were supposed to be operating during the reaper invasion until soveriegn was killed, and that they're being repurposed as saboteurs as well.
8. What they're made from. Why they want the cycle. That's pretty important.
9. The goal was clarified. Of course it wasn't defined completely, but ME1 skipped over why the reapers want to attack the galaxy and destroy organics in the first place and nobody complained. The rest are obviously being saved for another day.

You could argue that they weren't exposited on enough, but I'm pretty sure we got all the basics here.

1. Immortal beings that simply "are" (according to Sovereign) who need organics (humans only in this case) doesn't make sense at all.

2. Why do immortals need reproduction?

3. WTF?

4. Sovereign says something different. Maybe they're both lying, who knows. Arrival also happens between ME2 and ME3. It isn't a real part of ME2.

5. Depending on Shep's background, your Shep might be the only survivor of a slave raid. Colonies dissapearing isn't something new and it's definitely not related to the Reapers. In fact, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, considering the Reaper's efforts to erase all traces of their existence. Colonies vanishing is a good way to draw attention. You don't want that

6. Who made them "mindless"? And why? Slaves are always used to do the dirty work. Why do the Reapers need them?

7. The Collectors are Reaper builders now? They've done a poor job doing nothing for 50k years before starting to build one. Sovereign's failure was expected by the Reapers?

8. I've no idea where you got that idea.

9. Wiping out all life every now and then isn't a goal. That's sadistic, but that's all we know. Everything you've come up with is imaginary.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Number 1 is wrong. There is no obious connection between the husks and the reapers. Listen to the comments your squad memebrs make then..no a single one makes any connection to the reapers.
Niehter Shep, nor any team member considered the h8unks anything more han Collector experiments.

Eh...they do.
Shepard says: "Those things look like the husks the geth used on Eden Prime."
Almost all of the squadmates says: "The geth got that technology from Sovereign. Then your Illusive Man was right. The Collectors are working for the Reapers."

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Number 1 is wrong. There is no obious connection between the husks and the reapers. Listen to the comments your squad memebrs make then..no a single one makes any connection to the reapers.
Niehter Shep, nor any team member considered the h8unks anything more han Collector experiments.

Eh...they do.
Shepard says: "Those things look like the husks the geth used on Eden Prime."
Almost all of the squadmates says: "The geth got that technology from Sovereign. Then your Illusive Man was right. The Collectors are working for the Reapers."

Here you go. This is right after the first encounter with husks on Horizon. This dialogue is easy to overlook because it's not a cutscene, but it's just as valid as say, the audio logs on the Lazarus Station, or the Derelict Reaper.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 24 septembre 2011 - 09:01 .

[Arkitekt]

"undeniable fact" would be pretty stupid thing to say, since it's clear many people are able to deny that "fact", thus it's far from "undeniable". Of course, to reach this basic conclusion one would need a working brain.

[Arkitekt]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

1. Immortal beings that simply "are" (according to Sovereign) who need organics (humans only in this case) doesn't make sense at all.

2. Why do immortals need reproduction?

3. WTF?

4. Sovereign says something different. Maybe they're both lying, who knows. Arrival also happens between ME2 and ME3. It isn't a real part of ME2.

5. Depending on Shep's background, your Shep might be the only survivor of a slave raid. Colonies dissapearing isn't something new and it's definitely not related to the Reapers. In fact, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, considering the Reaper's efforts to erase all traces of their existence. Colonies vanishing is a good way to draw attention. You don't want that

6. Who made them "mindless"? And why? Slaves are always used to do the dirty work. Why do the Reapers need them?

7. The Collectors are Reaper builders now? They've done a poor job doing nothing for 50k years before starting to build one. Sovereign's failure was expected by the Reapers?

8. I've no idea where you got that idea.

9. Wiping out all life every now and then isn't a goal. That's sadistic, but that's all we know. Everything you've come up with is imaginary.

1. We don't know "how" reapers are constructed. We know they apparently reap organics' "essence" (whatever that is) in order to build another one. My best guess would place the first reaper as a post-singularity machine that "uploaded" an entire civilization into it, and is now in search for "friends". Why that is is still unknown.

2. This is a good question for ME3. Mind you, "immortals" is a matter of perspective. Nothing in the universe is "immortal", but by comparison with organics, this is a good characterization of a reaper.

3. I won't comment on the metaphysical shenanigan (WTF?? is a good reply), but again the human "goo" seems to include what is the essence of humanity. Don't read it mystically. Read it as (analogously) a caveman-like attempt to understand 21st century technology.

4. Soverreign says nothing about the human reaper. The human reaper is to be constructed with earth's humans, who will be reaped when the reapers get there. This is told when you enter the collector's ship and they claim that the size of it is so big that they assuredly are targetting "Earth". The only way to do so is with the reapers themselves.

5. This has been answered. When you reach Horizon, this induction is made by all your teammates, and it is a confirmation of what TIM guessed to be the case.

6. You answered your own question. Reapers are too "big" for these operations. They need "mindless drones", and organics that have been indoctrinated or messed up with are good "drones". This is also a continuation of the Cthuluh mythos, where something similar happened in that mythology.

7. Apparently they were waiting for the right organics to prove themselves worthy of attention and "reaperization". Apparently this "cull" happens every 50k years. You don't crop bananas every week. You wait for them to be mature.

8. It's what we are trying to tell you. Reaper's motivations were completely unclear in ME1. ME2 shows why they destroy civilizations every 50k years: to "post-singularize them" and make them into a new reaper. Further clarifications may be shown in  ME3.

9. Apparently many intelligent people imagined exactly the same damned thing when they played the game. Quite extraordinary, isn't it? Perhaps we are witnessing a huge mental telepathic revolution! Or... alternatively, it's what the game tells anyone with a ****ing brain turned on when they play it. Let's guess where the Ockham's razor will "reap".

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Uh, how are Reapers constructed and what are they exactly? What's the point of the Terminator? Why do they need human pulp to "build" it? What's the purpose of the Terminator? Is it to replace Sovereign to trigger the main attack? How do you even know the Collectors are related to the Reapers? Because TIM says so? Why do the Collectors work for the Reapers? Why do the Reapers need the Collectors? What technology did they use? Did Shep find some info about the Reapers? About their strength and weakness? What's the goal of the Reapers? How many are there? Who created them? And why? etc etc etc etc.

The two bolded parts do have definitive answers.
1. Husks are deployed by the Collectors on Horizon.
2. They were repurposed by the Reapers and are used as slave labor/tools/proxies.

Then again 2 out of 14 isn't exactly a good track record.

1. Horizon happens later. At the time that Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus he has no idea whether Reapers are involved, and apparently (despite vowing to find a way to stop the Reapers at the end of ME1) he doesn't care ("I just want to find out what happened to those missing colonists", he says).

And since you mentioned the husks...

If the husks constitute proof of Reaper involvement then why doesn't Shepard point to the piles of dead husks scattered all over the floor when talking to the VS?

Because Shep and the VS are caught in a moment of stupid for the sake of plot... 

More likely and simpler, there were no husks in the immediate vicinity of them, and also, VS actually believes in Shepard's story that Cerberus isn't abducting people here (at least he/she doesn't porsue that line of inquiry), he/she doesn't accept Shepard's afilliation, that is all.

[Arkitekt]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Of course you should, since all the "objective" reasoning you could apply against it is your own subjective prejudices against the format. You are convinced that the main plot should be given more attention than the rest of the plots, but again, there is no single "objective" reason for this, apart from some imagined arbitrary rules that someone took out of their ass.

For all I know stopping the Reaper is the main plot in the ME series. There is no progression at all in ME2, technically ME2 is a complete waste of time (fun though . Shepard has learned nothing and done nothing regarding the Reapers. Everything Shepard has done in ME3 makes no sense at all. ME2 doesn't have a plot, it's a collection of sub-plots which have no connection to eachother. Those who haven't played ME2 have missed NOTHING of the main-plot.

ME2 is a great game, but it has a poor plot (if any). It's like watching James Bond ignore the folks who want to take over / destroy Earth and goes out to help someone with his/her garden, takes on baseball training and goes fishing.

Hell, that's not a bad characterization of ME2 actually. It's exagerated due to what we actually learned about the reapers, and there's more than gardening and fishing going on (specially if we add the DLCs), but that's not bad stuff to say. However, Smudboy states unequivocally that this aspect is "BAD", objectively, and that they should have had focused more on the reaper stuff. Well I disagree. Not that I wouldn't like the alternative, perhaps I'd have enjoyed more, but I do respect their decision. The way ME2 is made makes us get into a live universe where multiple other things, crowded with intents, purposes, politics, drama, etc. is happening all over the place. It feels like a good sci fi tv show, where each episode has its own narrative, rather than a 20 hour long movie. (and that's probably why I tolerate repeats of ME2 much more than in ME1)

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...
2) Trust in troops helps win battles sure.  But so does having bigger guns, stronger armor, and an understanding of the means and motives of your enemy.  ME2 focused so much on this nebulous "focus" aspect that it almost completely ignored the more practical aspects of combat.

3) I'm not questioning being able to research improvements.  I'm questioning that the methods of uprading the Normandy is so simplistic in comparison to the loyalty missions.  You never even have to leave the ship!  IMO, every single upgrade your squadmates can give you, be it a personal upgrade or one for the Normandy, should have tied into their loyalty mission in some way.  That would at least have given these missions the illusion of actually preparing for a fight with the Collectors.

I think this is along the lines of what you had suggested previously, but... 

Let's take Jack for example.  What if, instead of Jack wanting to blow up the Teltin facility, Shep went to Jack and said "We need your biotics to be as effective as possible, is there anything you could use", and Jack then suggests going to see if any of the research still exists in the facility she escaped from... and that's why you go back there.  It's a more direct and mission-oriented reason to take the time to go there.  

That is precisely what I mean.  And while there, we go through Jack's horrific childhood, meet Aresh, and Jack decides she wants to blow up the facility when we're done.  Personal mission.  Practical reason.  Everybody wins.

Hell, I'm not a fan of making everything last thing mysteriously tie back to the Collectors, but brainstorming this out without weighing the pros and cons of it...  the facility could be restored a bit more, and Aresh and some helpers are already doing some nasty things... they're making progress because Aresh was so desperate that he went to the Collectors and traded them human biotic children for something.  Hmmm...

[Killjoy Cutter]

The Reapers are space monsters, it's not like we absolutely need to know the finest detail of why they do what they do...

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...
2) Trust in troops helps win battles sure.  But so does having bigger guns, stronger armor, and an understanding of the means and motives of your enemy.  ME2 focused so much on this nebulous "focus" aspect that it almost completely ignored the more practical aspects of combat.

3) I'm not questioning being able to research improvements.  I'm questioning that the methods of uprading the Normandy is so simplistic in comparison to the loyalty missions.  You never even have to leave the ship!  IMO, every single upgrade your squadmates can give you, be it a personal upgrade or one for the Normandy, should have tied into their loyalty mission in some way.  That would at least have given these missions the illusion of actually preparing for a fight with the Collectors.

I think this is along the lines of what you had suggested previously, but... 

Let's take Jack for example.  What if, instead of Jack wanting to blow up the Teltin facility, Shep went to Jack and said "We need your biotics to be as effective as possible, is there anything you could use", and Jack then suggests going to see if any of the research still exists in the facility she escaped from... and that's why you go back there.  It's a more direct and mission-oriented reason to take the time to go there.  

That is precisely what I mean.  And while there, we go through Jack's horrific childhood, meet Aresh, and Jack decides she wants to blow up the facility when we're done.  Personal mission.  Practical reason.  Everybody wins.

Hell, I'm not a fan of making everything last thing mysteriously tie back to the Collectors, but brainstorming this out without weighing the pros and cons of it...  the facility could be restored a bit more, and Aresh and some helpers are already doing some nasty things... they're making progress because Aresh was so desperate that he went to the Collectors and traded them human biotic children for something.  Hmmm...

It's stuff like this that makes me see ME2 as wasted potential...

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The Reapers are space monsters, it's not like we absolutely need to know the finest detail of why they do what they do...

VIgil: "In the end, what does it matter?  Your survival depends on stopping them.  Not in understanding them"

[Arkitekt]

I never saw so much "wasted potential" being so fervently enjoyed by so many people and critics.

I'm sure that Space Odissey was also a "wasted potential" in this kind of criteria, "Childhood's End" or "Foundation" series. All rubbish plots, due to their massive detail little plot holes. Pure junk fest.

My theory is quite another. We are witnessing the dawn of a new "type" of gaming, one where game and "cinematics" are beggining to merge into each other. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were two games that crossed some subtle thresholds of awesomeness, some of which made some people start to think and demand much much more than they used to do with games beforehand. However, they demand this without thinking that perhaps they wouldn't have with any other game.

Modifié par Arkitekt, 24 septembre 2011 - 11:15 .

[Almostfaceman]

iakus wrote...
It's stuff like this that makes me see ME2 as wasted potential...

Yes, we know. Because you tell us. Every single day.