[quote]Il Divo wrote...
They could, but that would still be a significant step up above what Bioware games normally give us. How many companion quests in KotOR, Jade Empire, or Origins stemmed from the main narrative? [/quote]
But none of these other games were
about the characters. Shepard is recruiting all these people for a reason. And that reason goes largely unnoticed for vast stretches of the game. Previous games had the companions offer to follow for whatever reason. This is a game where you must actively seek them out. But the why of it is largely ignored in favor of, well, hanging out with them.
[quote]
We've always disagreed on this. Extra squad banter (for me) is an extra; nice to have, but I won't notice if it's gone. All those lines you mentioned. How often does it actually impact the said character mission? Unless it's going to produce noticeable effects (akin to bringing Shale to Caridin's anvil), I don't consider one or two lines of dialogue meaningful, especially when the encounter plays out the same. [/quote]
Again it goes towards the whole point of seeking out these characters. You're not just recruiting individuals, you're building a team. WIth their own agendas and viewpoints. And Shepard needs to keep them all happy. Perhaps in other games companion dialogue could be considered an extra. But here the companions
are the story, for good or for ill. Bioware can't have it both ways. A game "about the companions" yet leave them silent for huge stretches of game. If I have Thane in the back seat while Garrus is actively plotting an assasination, I expect Thane to have something to say
Thos elines I mentioned? They do not specifically alter the missions. Though there are other instances where it can (such as having Varric with you while rescuing Feynriel from the slavers) But what it does is add depth to the characters. It shows they are aware of the surroundings, have opinions of your actions and each other. In short, it makes them come alive.
[quote]
But it still is Shepard's story. The intro, conclusion, Collector Missions, most dialogue, etc, still follows everything through Shepard. As I said, most Bioware games have never made an active effort to extend a character quest from the main plotline. I don't see why ME2 is in great violation. Imo, it's still miles ahead of ME1 where half the cast didn't even have character missions, and (Garrus aside) the included missions had little thought attached.
[/quote]
I'm actually inclined to disagree. At times it seems to be more the
squadmates' stories as seen through Shepard's eyes All Shep does is nudge the end choice. You are right, though. Bioware has never before mafe much of an effort to make a character quest extend from the main quest. And here we see that however well these quests were done, they still have the look and feel of side quests. Just side quests you must do or risk losing people.
DA2, now, those quests were far better integrated into the story. Even if the story itself left something to be desired.
[quote]
Because like I said, I don't particularly object to having these missions that focus on the characters, but they do so to the exclusion of the Collector story.
Serialized dramas may focus on a given character, but even then such an episode may advance the storyline. If the Suicide Mission was teh "season finale" then the "season" should have been building up to that. Not just devote four episodes towards advancing the plot and leaving the rest of the season as standalones. [/quote]
While some stories which follow episodic content might advance the storyline (See Heroes: Episode 17- Company Man), there are many more which barely move it an inch.
Watchmen's character chapters don't move the narrative much forward. Firefly episode Jeynestown is similar. Hell, most of Firefly doesn't even occupy a central narrative. Likewise with many episodes of Avatar: the Last Airbender, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Heroes, Samurai Champloo, etc. The "build up" to the suicide mission was contained in the intro, dialogue, and Collector Missions, which still fulfilled their function in my opinion.
[/quote]
Of course, none of those shows were touted as part of an epic trilogy. Or even necessarilly followed a season long arc. "Heroes" did. And while it did have standalone episodes, and episodes that focused on certain characters over others. I'm sure it took more than four episodes advance the storyline to the point of the meeting in Kirby Plaza.
[quote]
If you had said Alistair, I would agree since his personality impacts potential rule of Ferelden. Changing Leliana's personality is entirely irrelevant to the story, outside of Leliana. [/quote]
Allisair is another one. And while his change can alter the succession matter in Ferelden, I think you sell Leliana's mission short if you dismiss it as just affecting her. I'd argue that we see no changes in any of the characters in ME2 regarding how any of their loyalty missions are handled, save the plot armor in the Suicide Mission. Does Miranda change at all if you let her kill Niket? Or talk to Oriana? Does Jacob act any differently depending on what you do with his father? Is this game "about the squad" or is it about "doing things for the squad"?
Modifié par iakus, 26 septembre 2011 - 10:15 .
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