6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Tali:
Maybe an example of an alternative cutscene would help here.
Tali sees mech, takes cover, starts to fight it, then sees it targetting a wounded Quarian. It fires a rocket. She dives out of cover and puts herself between the rocket and Quarian, visibly boosting her shields as she does (we often see people using powers in cutscenes that they don't have in gameplay, and a tech with a shield boost doesn't seem that implausible to me, plus I'm making this up as I go so cut me some slack). The rocket hits her shield and takes it out, and she's knocked flying into a wall by the blast. She's uncoscious, but the Quarian is saved, and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

See?

Liara:
Well, I'll agree that her peace/love character in ME1 does contradict her behaviour in combat. That always bugged me a bit.

Fighting Geth:  somehow, I don't see hunting down Sovereign's lackies for a few weeks after the Battle of the Citadel as "ignoring the Reapers entirely".

IIRC it's not weeks, it's months, but I take your point.

Yeah, shields can't block heat or concussion blasts, so Tali using herself as a meat shield wouldn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

Besides, what would that buy them? Three seconds before the mech winds up its machine gun and guns them all down?

[Someone With Mass]

Arkitekt wrote...

SWM, damn that was bad. Do you upload a part of your mind every time you use an avatar, since that's why it is "called an avatar"? Because hey, dontcha know? It's what happens every time in the netz.

Av·a·tar
A manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher.

That kind of avatar.

[dreman9999]

Arkitekt wrote...

111987 wrote...

Your analogy is horrible and completely invalid.

Let's see how so.

Harbinger's minions, the Collectors, have all been implanted with cybernetics that allows the Reapers to use them as puppets.

.... and so was Saren.

You should talk to Mordin about the Collectors. And once again, if the Collector General was killed while Harbinger was controlling it, Harbinger would have temporarily 'shut-down' just like Sovereign.

Very easy to make predictions that will never be tested, innit?

There's no magic involved. It's very easy to understand.

Did I ever say otherwise? With all your patronization, you still fail to understand the "very easy to understand" point that it was a stupid plot moment, that in all probability was chosen as a gameplay mechanic, because otherwise it would have been massively stupid to implement as a "pure story" element. Probably rushed.

1.As I said before, Soverigns control of Saren's body in the final fight is like a person controling their own body. Every sense, feeling, and detail of control is sensed like Soverign was Seran himself.
2. It not a guess,they took a full body scan and took massive amount of info from the collectors ships databases....They got the info that told them everything to know about the collectors.
3.Again, Your not understanding the detail of control Soverin had on Saren's body. The control was up to the point the Saren's body was almost Soverigns body.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:07 .

[dreman9999]

Arkitekt wrote...

SWM, damn that was bad. Do you upload a part of your mind every time you use an avatar, since that's why it is "called an avatar"? Because hey, dontcha know? It's what happens every time in the netz.

Not the same thing. You not understand the very detail of the control of Saren body Soverign had. It was like Sarens body was Sovergns body.

[onelifecrisis]

kylecouch wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Tali takes cover instead of getting ripped to pieces by a YMIR the way the rest of the Quarians did when caught in close combat with the thing.  Don't try to paint this like she's running from a LOKI...   

We're told that Liara went through hell to get Shep's body back, lost a friend doing it, and is engaged in a shadow war against the Shadow Broker... and you're surprised that she's changed? 

The VS becoming a plot-idiot in ME2 is an issue I won't argue, as I agree with those who say the VS was terribly borked by Bioware in ME2. 

The Council sends Shep to hunt for Geth in the Terminus Systems, the opening makes that clear.  If I recall correctly,  it's been a matter of weeks since the Battle of the Citadel, and you're making a federal case out of the Normandy and Shep being on what's supposed to be a "cake" assignment for a bit after what they went through in ME1?  LoL. 

"Swaggering, slouching d-bag"?  LoL, whatever.  

Re: Tali.
She could/would have taken cover and helped Shepard fight it, if it's so dangerous. And besides, in Jack's introductory cutscene she takes on four of them single-handed. Tali is a tech; she's supposed to be better at dealing with mechs than biotics. You can't have it both ways.

Re: Liara
Change is one thing, u-turn is another. Every aspect of her character does a complete 180.
"The world of intrigue isn't that much different from a dig site."
Riiiight. I'm sure that shut-in academic nerds who would rather read books than socialise would make great information brokers.

Re: Geth
And how is hunting geth supposed to stop the reapers?

Can you name an instance where anyone not on the immediate in-play team helps Shep fight outside of cutscenes?  I don't recall any.  That's not a Tali issue, that's an overall game issue, even if you only noticed it with Tali. 

Liara had to learn those skills in the period between games, big deal, people can change, grow, and learn.  Sorry Liara isn't static enough for you. 

The Council sent Shepard and the Normandy to go track down Geth in the Terminus Systems.   Spectres take orders from the Council.   What is so hard to grasp about Shepard going out to do what the Council ordered Shepard to go out and do? 

I really rub you up the wrong way, don't I? Sorry, it's not intentional.

Re: Tali.
I'm not getting your point. Why couldn't they just change the cutscene? There's any number of ways they could have handled it without Tali being made to look like a wuss.

Re: Liara not being static. You are (again) using the excluded middle fallacy. As I already said, change is one thing, u-turn is another.

Re: Shepard.
"The reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them."
IMO, as statements go, that one doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. The council are standing right there when he says it, and none of them object. Even if they had objected it wouldn't matter, as by the end of ME1 Shepard had demonstrated that he's quite willing to disobey orders to stop the reapers.

So, do you think Shepard was just full of hot air? Was he grandstanding, and the council letting it slide because they figured he'd calm down later and agree to do nothing about the impending reaper invasion?

To be fair...Tali is tending to the wounded that ISN'T killed by the mech. and considering the damage done, probably required her full attention.

And Liara...sorry man...an innocent virginy type person does not remain that way after goign through the crap she goes through in Redemption. Some people do indeed change in personality...its not really such a foreign concept.

As for stoping the Reapers...the Geth was the only physical aspect left of the Reaper threat known...what else is he suppose to do...wander the universe aimlessly hoping to come across some random object? thats simply wasteing time when theirs a real and physical enemy that endangers innocents.

Redemption? So you're saying that if I want the plot to make sense then I should buy and read/play all of the extra material that's released? I disagree with that. And I don't know what happens in Redemption, but I do know that while traumatic events do change people (I've seen it IRL a few times) they don't make complete u-turns. Some if not most of the original personality is always retained. Name one aspect of Liara's character in ME2 (preferably from within the actual game) that is true, or even similar, to the way she was portrayed in ME1.

What else is Shepard supposed to do? Talk. Investigate. People have been studying the protheans and reaper tech for thousands of years, always under the assumption that the latter came from the former. The discovery of the reapers and the role they played in the extinction of the protheans would (had it not been so implausibly covered up) have sparked a wave of discovery in the scientific community as facts and findings were re-analysed and reconsidered.

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Tali takes cover instead of getting ripped to pieces by a YMIR the way the rest of the Quarians did when caught in close combat with the thing.  Don't try to paint this like she's running from a LOKI...   

We're told that Liara went through hell to get Shep's body back, lost a friend doing it, and is engaged in a shadow war against the Shadow Broker... and you're surprised that she's changed? 

The VS becoming a plot-idiot in ME2 is an issue I won't argue, as I agree with those who say the VS was terribly borked by Bioware in ME2. 

The Council sends Shep to hunt for Geth in the Terminus Systems, the opening makes that clear.  If I recall correctly,  it's been a matter of weeks since the Battle of the Citadel, and you're making a federal case out of the Normandy and Shep being on what's supposed to be a "cake" assignment for a bit after what they went through in ME1?  LoL. 

"Swaggering, slouching d-bag"?  LoL, whatever.  

Re: Tali.
She could/would have taken cover and helped Shepard fight it, if it's so dangerous. And besides, in Jack's introductory cutscene she takes on four of them single-handed. Tali is a tech; she's supposed to be better at dealing with mechs than biotics. You can't have it both ways.

Re: Liara
Change is one thing, u-turn is another. Every aspect of her character does a complete 180.
"The world of intrigue isn't that much different from a dig site."
Riiiight. I'm sure that shut-in academic nerds who would rather read books than socialise would make great information brokers.

Re: Geth
And how is hunting geth supposed to stop the reapers?

Can you name an instance where anyone not on the immediate in-play team helps Shep fight outside of cutscenes?  I don't recall any.  That's not a Tali issue, that's an overall game issue, even if you only noticed it with Tali. 

Liara had to learn those skills in the period between games, big deal, people can change, grow, and learn.  Sorry Liara isn't static enough for you. 

The Council sent Shepard and the Normandy to go track down Geth in the Terminus Systems.   Spectres take orders from the Council.   What is so hard to grasp about Shepard going out to do what the Council ordered Shepard to go out and do? 

I really rub you up the wrong way, don't I? Sorry, it's not intentional.

Re: Tali.
I'm not getting your point. Why couldn't they just change the cutscene? There's any number of ways they could have handled it without Tali being made to look like a wuss.

Re: Liara not being static. You are (again) using the excluded middle fallacy. As I already said, change is one thing, u-turn is another.

Re: Shepard.
"The reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them."
IMO, as statements go, that one doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. The council are standing right there when he says it, and none of them object. Even if they had objected it wouldn't matter, as by the end of ME1 Shepard had demonstrated that he's quite willing to disobey orders to stop the reapers.

So, do you think Shepard was just full of hot air? Was he grandstanding, and the council letting it slide because they figured he'd calm down later and agree to do nothing about the impending reaper invasion?

To be fair...Tali is tending to the wounded that ISN'T killed by the mech. and considering the damage done, probably required her full attention.

And Liara...sorry man...an innocent virginy type person does not remain that way after goign through the crap she goes through in Redemption. Some people do indeed change in personality...its not really such a foreign concept.

As for stoping the Reapers...the Geth was the only physical aspect left of the Reaper threat known...what else is he suppose to do...wander the universe aimlessly hoping to come across some random object? thats simply wasteing time when theirs a real and physical enemy that endangers innocents.

Redemption? So you're saying that if I want the plot to make sense then I should buy and read/play all of the extra material that's released? I disagree with that. And I don't know what happens in Redemption, but I do know that while traumatic events do change people (I've seen it IRL a few times) they don't make complete u-turns. Some if not most of the original personality is always retained. Name one aspect of Liara's character in ME2 (preferably from within the actual game) that is true, or even similar, to the way she was portrayed in ME1.

What else is Shepard supposed to do? Talk. Investigate. People have been studying the protheans and reaper tech for thousands of years, always under the assumption that the latter came from the former. The discovery of the reapers and the role they played in the extinction of the protheans would (had it not been so implausibly covered up) have sparked a wave of discovery in the scientific community as facts and findings were re-analysed and reconsidered.

Yes, why? Because it part of the plot. All the books and comics are part of the plot. And I does not matter anyway....It's human(or any advance being with an ego)Nature to change over time. Liara's personality did not change she just got harder.

Also, about finding info on the reapers....Liara is the person with the most info, and you got everything from her. And everyone laugh at the notion on the info on the reapers before the reapers attacked the citidel. Also. your forgeting that the reapers did not leave cluse left about them selves that would point to them that would not just indocrinate the people who found it. If any one found anything they would not be able to report it because they would of been indocrinated. The geth would be the one withthe most info because they worked with the reapers.
The Geth still are the ones with the most info in ME2 anyways...

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:19 .

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Tali:
Maybe an example of an alternative cutscene would help here.
Tali sees mech, takes cover, starts to fight it, then sees it targetting a wounded Quarian. It fires a rocket. She dives out of cover and puts herself between the rocket and Quarian, visibly boosting her shields as she does (we often see people using powers in cutscenes that they don't have in gameplay, and a tech with a shield boost doesn't seem that implausible to me, plus I'm making this up as I go so cut me some slack). The rocket hits her shield and takes it out, and she's knocked flying into a wall by the blast. She's uncoscious, but the Quarian is saved, and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

See?

Liara:
Well, I'll agree that her peace/love character in ME1 does contradict her behaviour in combat. That always bugged me a bit.

Fighting Geth:  somehow, I don't see hunting down Sovereign's lackies for a few weeks after the Battle of the Citadel as "ignoring the Reapers entirely".

IIRC it's not weeks, it's months, but I take your point.

Yeah, shields can't block heat or concussion blasts, so Tali using herself as a meat shield wouldn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

That's funny. Shepard's shields seem to work just fine agaist rockets.

Besides, what would that buy them? Three seconds before the mech winds up its machine gun and guns them all down?

I guess you skipped past this part:

...and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

You forget that the  billions in one setient ship was directly controling that single being...Like a person controls their body. In short, you were shooting Soverigns consciousness that was in Seran's reaperfied body.

B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.

[TheRevanchist]

onelifecrisis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Tali takes cover instead of getting ripped to pieces by a YMIR the way the rest of the Quarians did when caught in close combat with the thing.  Don't try to paint this like she's running from a LOKI...   

We're told that Liara went through hell to get Shep's body back, lost a friend doing it, and is engaged in a shadow war against the Shadow Broker... and you're surprised that she's changed? 

The VS becoming a plot-idiot in ME2 is an issue I won't argue, as I agree with those who say the VS was terribly borked by Bioware in ME2. 

The Council sends Shep to hunt for Geth in the Terminus Systems, the opening makes that clear.  If I recall correctly,  it's been a matter of weeks since the Battle of the Citadel, and you're making a federal case out of the Normandy and Shep being on what's supposed to be a "cake" assignment for a bit after what they went through in ME1?  LoL. 

"Swaggering, slouching d-bag"?  LoL, whatever.  

Re: Tali.
She could/would have taken cover and helped Shepard fight it, if it's so dangerous. And besides, in Jack's introductory cutscene she takes on four of them single-handed. Tali is a tech; she's supposed to be better at dealing with mechs than biotics. You can't have it both ways.

Re: Liara
Change is one thing, u-turn is another. Every aspect of her character does a complete 180.
"The world of intrigue isn't that much different from a dig site."
Riiiight. I'm sure that shut-in academic nerds who would rather read books than socialise would make great information brokers.

Re: Geth
And how is hunting geth supposed to stop the reapers?

Can you name an instance where anyone not on the immediate in-play team helps Shep fight outside of cutscenes?  I don't recall any.  That's not a Tali issue, that's an overall game issue, even if you only noticed it with Tali. 

Liara had to learn those skills in the period between games, big deal, people can change, grow, and learn.  Sorry Liara isn't static enough for you. 

The Council sent Shepard and the Normandy to go track down Geth in the Terminus Systems.   Spectres take orders from the Council.   What is so hard to grasp about Shepard going out to do what the Council ordered Shepard to go out and do? 

I really rub you up the wrong way, don't I? Sorry, it's not intentional.

Re: Tali.
I'm not getting your point. Why couldn't they just change the cutscene? There's any number of ways they could have handled it without Tali being made to look like a wuss.

Re: Liara not being static. You are (again) using the excluded middle fallacy. As I already said, change is one thing, u-turn is another.

Re: Shepard.
"The reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them."
IMO, as statements go, that one doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. The council are standing right there when he says it, and none of them object. Even if they had objected it wouldn't matter, as by the end of ME1 Shepard had demonstrated that he's quite willing to disobey orders to stop the reapers.

So, do you think Shepard was just full of hot air? Was he grandstanding, and the council letting it slide because they figured he'd calm down later and agree to do nothing about the impending reaper invasion?

To be fair...Tali is tending to the wounded that ISN'T killed by the mech. and considering the damage done, probably required her full attention.

And Liara...sorry man...an innocent virginy type person does not remain that way after goign through the crap she goes through in Redemption. Some people do indeed change in personality...its not really such a foreign concept.

As for stoping the Reapers...the Geth was the only physical aspect left of the Reaper threat known...what else is he suppose to do...wander the universe aimlessly hoping to come across some random object? thats simply wasteing time when theirs a real and physical enemy that endangers innocents.

Redemption? So you're saying that if I want the plot to make sense then I should buy and read/play all of the extra material that's released? I disagree with that. And I don't know what happens in Redemption, but I do know that while traumatic events do change people (I've seen it IRL a few times) they don't make complete u-turns. Some if not most of the original personality is always retained. Name one aspect of Liara's character in ME2 (preferably from within the actual game) that is true, or even similar, to the way she was portrayed in ME1.

What else is Shepard supposed to do? Talk. Investigate. People have been studying the protheans and reaper tech for thousands of years, always under the assumption that the latter came from the former. The discovery of the reapers and the role they played in the extinction of the protheans would (had it not been so implausibly covered up) have sparked a wave of discovery in the scientific community as facts and findings were re-analysed and reconsidered.

If you dont want to read and understand the source of her personality change thats your business...but dont act like its complelete bulls*** when you dont even know what happens to justify such things.

And yes...people are going to know alll about Reaper's by studying the VAST amounts of Prothean tech they have at their disposal. The Reaper's minions are destroying and killing people still in the name of their masters and hes going to go talk to people and do research.  

[The Interloper]

Arkitekt wrote...


Harbinger's minions, the Collectors, have all been implanted with cybernetics that allows the Reapers to use them as puppets.


.... and so was Saren.


There's no magic involved. It's very easy to understand.


Did I ever say otherwise? With all your patronization, you still fail to understand the "very easy to understand" point that it was a stupid plot moment, that in all probability was chosen as a gameplay mechanic, because otherwise it would have been massively stupid to implement as a "pure story" element. Probably rushed.

We've gone over this. Saren was a rush job; the collectors were bred for thousands of years to serve the reapers, and everyone of them was capable of being possessed, while saren was upgraded within the past few weeks/days. Plus the collector general is there as a middleman. Plus Soveriegn may of had to put an unusuall amount of himself into Saren in order to access the citadel. And maybe Harbingers just a possession specialist.

There are any number of explanations as to why Soverign's possession backfired on him while Harbinber does it constantly.

Of course it's a bit of a contrivance, but those are all over the place, in ME and much of fiction. Funny how Sauron put all of his stuff into a ring that could be destroyed by his own house. He obviously thought the benefits were worth the risk.

[DCarter]

111987 wrote...
Fair enough, if you think it's lame, you are entitled to your opinion.

No logical reasoning? How much energy do you think Sovereign had to invest in Saren to reanimnate him and give him all the powerful abilities he had? Obviously a substantial amount.

 
Sarens was one turian. Sovereign is a two kilometer long starship with near inpenetrable shields. I'd suggest whatever "substantial amount" of energy it took soveriegn to control saren, it would take a ridiculous amount more to power those shields and weaponry and any other task involved with being a TWO KILOMETER LONG STARSHIP. 

Even if we accept that it takes more energy to reanimate one turian corpse than a reaper can handle, then surely it should be while soveriegn was controlling saren the shields are down. Not when he dies and sovereign can use that energy elsewhere. 

This was cleary a decision they took for cinematic effect so our hero shepard could single handedly save the day. A style over substance approach to storyteling that has become all too common. 

And it isn't a glaring weakness. In most cases a Reaper would never need to assume direct control over an Avatar, and in most situations wouldn't be so deseperate as to fight on until the very end.

Glaring weakness is the wrong term. Silly, unconvincing and convenient are proabably better words to describe it. They might of well of said all reapers are male and therefor can't handle multitasking because that would atleast be funny and only slightly more ridiculous. 

Modifié par DCarter, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[TheRevanchist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

You forget that the  billions in one setient ship was directly controling that single being...Like a person controls their body. In short, you were shooting Soverigns consciousness that was in Seran's reaperfied body.

B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

That's not how it works though; it's not a traditional hack. Like the tweet said, Sovereign was investing massive amounts of energy in controlling Saren; Sovereign had to both reanimate Saren and then manipulate him from afar, also giving Saren all of his super-abilities in that final battle. The loss of that energy could very well explain what happened to Sovereign.

I have to agree with Arhitekt here (as much as I detest the idea).
What "energy"? sovy is powered by a massive core - it should have more then enough power. Heck, it's taking in the firepower of entire fleet WHILE conroling Sarens corpse. So what exactly is the problem? It's a cropse. Coorpses don't fight back.

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

That's funny. Shepard's shields seem to work just fine agaist rockets.

Besides, what would that buy them? Three seconds before the mech winds up its machine gun and guns them all down?

I guess you skipped past this part:

...and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

If Shepard's shields are so rocket-proof (never mind that it's a gameplay mechanic so you wouldn't get one-shot-killed by rockets all day) then there's really no need for anyone to buy him/her time, now is there? In fact, the shields are made to give people time to get to cover.

Pointless sacrifice is so pointless.

[onelifecrisis]

kylecouch wrote...

If you dont want to read and understand the source of her personality change thats your business...but dont act like its complelete bulls*** when you dont even know what happens to justify such things.

1. I don't know what happens because it's not in the game.
2. There is no justification for a complete u-turn. If you're going to make a character into someone completely different then you might as well just introduce a new character instead. It's much less confusing that way.

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Tali:
Maybe an example of an alternative cutscene would help here.
Tali sees mech, takes cover, starts to fight it, then sees it targetting a wounded Quarian. It fires a rocket. She dives out of cover and puts herself between the rocket and Quarian, visibly boosting her shields as she does (we often see people using powers in cutscenes that they don't have in gameplay, and a tech with a shield boost doesn't seem that implausible to me, plus I'm making this up as I go so cut me some slack). The rocket hits her shield and takes it out, and she's knocked flying into a wall by the blast. She's uncoscious, but the Quarian is saved, and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

See?

Liara:
Well, I'll agree that her peace/love character in ME1 does contradict her behaviour in combat. That always bugged me a bit.

Fighting Geth:  somehow, I don't see hunting down Sovereign's lackies for a few weeks after the Battle of the Citadel as "ignoring the Reapers entirely".

IIRC it's not weeks, it's months, but I take your point.

Yeah, shields can't block heat or concussion blasts, so Tali using herself as a meat shield wouldn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

That's funny. Shepard's shields seem to work just fine agaist rockets.

Besides, what would that buy them? Three seconds before the mech winds up its machine gun and guns them all down?

I guess you skipped past this part:

...and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

That's Shepard's advanced Cerberus shields... If your read ME:ASENSION,  you'll know tali's Shield would not hold under that attack....Now if it was Legion.....
Also, you miss ed the part where the Ymir Mech attacking the quarians that attacked it gave Shep and team time to get cover.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

WHY?

why upload his "mind" in the avatar? Why not jsut contorl it remotely? Why would that be necessary?

Yes, it's stupid. Very, very stupid.

[dreman9999]

kylecouch wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

You forget that the  billions in one setient ship was directly controling that single being...Like a person controls their body. In short, you were shooting Soverigns consciousness that was in Seran's reaperfied body.

B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

[CroGamer002]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

WHY?

why upload his "mind" in the avatar? Why not jsut contorl it remotely? Why would that be necessary?

Yes, it's stupid. Very, very stupid.

Saren ain't designed like Collectors to have simple on and off switch with no consequence on Reaper side

Also Shepard had control of the station while all of Sovy's minions have failed. Sovy had to do something without blowing up the tower.

He had no other choice!

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

That's funny. Shepard's shields seem to work just fine agaist rockets.

Besides, what would that buy them? Three seconds before the mech winds up its machine gun and guns them all down?

I guess you skipped past this part:

...and the engagement gave Shepard and his squaddies time to take cover. The mech turns to face Shepard...

If Shepard's shields are so rocket-proof (never mind that it's a gameplay mechanic so you wouldn't get one-shot-killed by rockets all day) then there's really no need for anyone to buy him/her time, now is there? In fact, the shields are made to give people time to get to cover.

Pointless sacrifice is so pointless.

Now I know you're just trolling... or very stupid. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter:
Tali saves the Quarian and buys Shepard time to get into cover with his shields intact.

[Iakus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

WHY?

why upload his "mind" in the avatar? Why not jsut contorl it remotely? Why would that be necessary?

Yes, it's stupid. Very, very stupid.

My thought, and it's just a thought, is that Reapers need to "assume direct control" to unlock the full potential of the cybernetics in their puppets.  Sovereign might have been able to remote control Saren, but he'd be little more than a husk.  By taking direct control, Sovereign could be far more precise in his attacks plus unleash the super-geth-hopper-of-doom abilities.

As to what happened to Sovereign, I always too a different interpretation of "weakened"  I don't see it as draining all of Sovereign's power, or killing his mind or lopping off a big chunk  o' hit points.  I saw it as Sovereign taking a good solid thump on the head.  He was knocked back momentarilly, stunned and seeing tweety birds.  He would have recovered given a few moments.  But the fleet didn't give him those moments and it him while he was relatively defenseless.

[111987]

DCarter wrote...

111987 wrote...
Fair enough, if you think it's lame, you are entitled to your opinion.

No logical reasoning? How much energy do you think Sovereign had to invest in Saren to reanimnate him and give him all the powerful abilities he had? Obviously a substantial amount.

 
Sarens was one turian. Sovereign is a two kilometer long starship with near inpenetrable shields. I'd suggest whatever "substantial amount" of energy it took soveriegn to control saren, it would take a ridiculous amount more to power those shields and weaponry and any other task involved with being a TWO KILOMETER LONG STARSHIP. 

Even if we accept that it takes more energy to reanimate one turian corpse than a reaper can handle, then surely it should be while soveriegn was controlling saren the shields are down. Not when he dies and sovereign can use that energy elsewhere. 

This was cleary a decision they took for cinematic effect so our hero shepard could single handedly save the day. A style over substance approach to storyteling that has become all too common. 

And it isn't a glaring weakness. In most cases a Reaper would never need to assume direct control over an Avatar, and in most situations wouldn't be so deseperate as to fight on until the very end.

Glaring weakness is the wrong term. Silly, unconvincing and convenient are proabably better words to describe it. They might of well of said all reapers are male and therefor can't handle multitasking because that would atleast be funny and only slightly more ridiculous. 

All I go off of is the developer tweet, which said that Sovereign was investing a great deal of energy into controlling Saren, and that by destroying Saren, Sovereign temporarily lost power. The way I think of it is like a flashdrive and a computer; if you wrench out a flashdrive without safely removing it, and can cause your computer to temporarily crash.

Everything else you just said is your own opinion, so I guess i'm done here?

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

WHY?

why upload his "mind" in the avatar? Why not jsut contorl it remotely? Why would that be necessary?

Yes, it's stupid. Very, very stupid.

Let's see now.
If he kills Shepard and get control of the Station, he get's to open the citedel relay and the entire reaper fleet pours in. And If he runs away......He won't get another chance....So, he tries to press the button to open the back door.
Also, a remote control dummy is too stupid to do what he needs . Look at the husk....They are dumb as a rock. They need to have an intellegent puppet to complex stuff or do it themselves.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:31 .

[Sajuro]

Arkitekt wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

No, Harbinger isn't affected because he's doing it through the collector general ...

Utterly speculative and unsupported. I'm right and you are wrong: it was a gameplay decision, and it is broken plotwise. Nothing that worries me though, this kind of shenanigan happens in most games and I'm fine with it.

is response to both people who told me I'm wrong, I am pretty sure one of the devs confirmed that Saren Husk being killed was why Sovereign's enormous shields went down.
as for that speculation, it is supported because it is shown that a harbinger controlled general assumes direct control of the drones.
:police:deal with it:police:

[onelifecrisis]

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, you miss ed the part where the Ymir Mech attacking the quarians that attacked it gave Shep and team time to get cover.

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?