6494 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

dreman9999 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

You forget that the  billions in one setient ship was directly controling that single being...Like a person controls their body. In short, you were shooting Soverigns consciousness that was in Seran's reaperfied body.

B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

if your attempting to dispute me I dont really see how that works.

[onelifecrisis]

I see that "cut me some slack" goes a long way here. /sarcasm

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:31 .

[DCarter]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

[111987]

DCarter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

So it's bad writing that they can have a weakness? Wow....

And nothing about the avatar situation undermines anything we know about the Reapers. Please don't make stuff up.

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Now I know you're just trolling... or very stupid. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter:
Tali saves the Quarian and buys Shepard time to get into cover with his shields intact.

Time which Shepard already had, as he and the team took cover while the mech was working over the quarians outside the building Tali was in.

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, you miss ed the part where the Ymir Mech attacking the quarians that attacked it gave Shep and team time to get cover.

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

If you look, you'll see that Shepard and his Team went to cover as the the quarians that went on attack are torned to peices...

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Now I know you're just trolling... or very stupid. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter:
Tali saves the Quarian and buys Shepard time to get into cover with his shields intact.

Time which Shepard already had, as he and the team took cover while the mech was working over the quarians outside the building Tali was in.

dreman9999 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, you miss ed the part where the Ymir Mech attacking the quarians that attacked it gave Shep and team time to get cover.

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

If you look, you'll see that Shepard and his Team went to cover as the the quarians that went on attack are torned to peices...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:38 .

[dreman9999]

kylecouch wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

It fails to make sense because it is stupid to have a million-beings-civilization-in-one sentient ship destroyed because one single remote controlled being is now dead. It's beyond stupid. The only possible explanation is that it was a gameplay mechanic: You have to defeat Saren huskified in order to see Soverreign destroyed by the fleet. It was then "explained" that this avatar link actually caused this disruption.

It's beyond stupid, it's as if you'd be killed every time a hacked mech (by you as an engineer) was destroyed. And arguably, the reapers are better hackers.

You forget that the  billions in one setient ship was directly controling that single being...Like a person controls their body. In short, you were shooting Soverigns consciousness that was in Seran's reaperfied body.

B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

"I am Soverign, and this station is mine."

if your attempting to dispute me I dont really see how that works.

I'm not...I'm supporting you. I did post the link earillier in the topic.

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, you miss ed the part where the Ymir Mech attacking the quarians that attacked it gave Shep and team time to get cover.

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

If you look, you'll see that Shepard and his Team went to cover as the the quarians that went on attack are torned to peices...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

What part of "Tali helping to give Shepard time to get to cover is not clearly need and she does not have the fire power to support the qurians fleeing" you don't understand?

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:41 .

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...

So it's bad writing that they can have a weakness? Wow....

And nothing about the avatar situation undermines anything we know about the Reapers. Please don't make stuff up.

The real funny part is when Saren is hinting at how the Reapers are using organics (symbiosis between flesh and steel, telling Shepard to experience a rebirth at the hands of the Reapers and all that, just like Harbinger did). The details are vague, but it works with what we learned about them in ME2.

[CroGamer002]

DCarter wrote...

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

Saren is not like Collectors.

You know? That loophole Harbinger avoided when assuming control thing?

Sovy was just desperate then.
Shepard took control of the tower and all of Sovy's minions have failed. He had to do something.

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

[DCarter]

111987 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

So it's bad writing that they can have a weakness? Wow....

And nothing about the avatar situation undermines anything we know about the Reapers. Please don't make stuff up.

No, it's the nature of the weakness that is important. Like i said the writers chose this paticular weakness purely for cinematic effect at the end of the game. Unfortunately that effect only underwhelmed me because we have a massive space battle being trumped by a relatively small event. 

Edit: Underimes everything was hyperbole, i feel into the same trap as MEs writing team. However the reapers fighting capabilities seem irelevant if we can overcome them by taking out one lone controlled minion. I doubt this is going to be the magic bullet we use to beat them in me3, this scenario might not even come up again but i still maintain it was a bad choice. The fact that it's not even properly explained within the game and you have to go and collect dev tweets to figure out what actually happened doesn't exactly impress me either. 

Modifié par DCarter, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[TheRevanchist]

DCarter wrote...

111987 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

So it's bad writing that they can have a weakness? Wow....

And nothing about the avatar situation undermines anything we know about the Reapers. Please don't make stuff up.

No, it's the nature of the weakness that is important. Like i said the writers chose this paticular weakness purely for cinematic effect at the end of the game. Unfortunately that effect only underwhelmed me because we space battle being trumped by a relatively small event. 

True...but hoenstly doing what Soverign did seems like thats not something the Reaper's do very often...so its not really a weakness that becomes a glareing problem for them...however the grand weakness that Bioware promises for ME3 is totaly unrelated.

[111987]

DCarter wrote...

111987 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Having a reaper shut down everytime it's avatar is destroyed is incredibly lame. What's the point in being a nearly unstoppable 2km spaceship if you become a sitting duck everytime one possessed corps gets taken out. There's no logical reason for such an effect and i can't even think of an attempt to create a techno babble excuse for the reapers creating such a glaring weakness in their own defenses. It's just bad writing to me. 

Bad writing? Is that really everyone's excuse to everything they don't like these days?

Sovereign uploaded a part of/ its whole mind into the avatar (hence why it's called an avatar to begin with) in an act of desperation, since it had nothing left to lose, since it couldn't hold out against the fleet forever and then its mind was destroyed when the avatar died.

It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

So it's bad writing that they can have a weakness? Wow....

And nothing about the avatar situation undermines anything we know about the Reapers. Please don't make stuff up.

No, it's the nature of the weakness that is important. Like i said the writers chose this paticular weakness purely for cinematic effect at the end of the game. Unfortunately that effect only underwhelmed me because we space battle being trumped by a relatively small event. 

Fair enough.

[Someone With Mass]

DCarter wrote...
It's bad writing because sovereign seems a much less formidable oponent because of it. They make the reapers so enomously powerful; millions if not billions year old, biggest starships in the galaxy, billions of conjoined minds, super advanced weaponry, impenetrable shields and so on, until the only way for us to actually win is to create a little loophole which undermines everything else we've been told about them.

You mean that they actually have a weakness like most things have? I thought that was good. I don't think it makes any Reaper less of a threat, since I don't think they're doing those things willingly unless all other options are exhausted or unless they're safe from harm.

They can still smash through fleets like nothing (literally, in some cases) and be a very serious danger to everyone.

Sovereign made an act of desperation. That doesn't make it bad writing. Sovereign probably thought that the avatar could kill Shepard and then help opening up the Citadel systems faster. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 27 septembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

I'd have to quote myself less often if you'd bother to read the thread before clicking the spam post button.

[TheRevanchist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

Because there isn't one. Her help is not needed in that situation regardless if she would be helpful or not.

[TheRevanchist]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

I'd have to quote myself less often if you'd bother to read the thread before clicking the spam post button.

Why does every character have to have spines of steel? her help is not needed...thus theres no need for her to do everything. Besides that AI hacking dont work when Shields are up...and going kamikaze like that is also meaningless since she would likely be broken in half...shes not exactly a Krogan you know...

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

I'd have to quote myself less often if you'd bother to read the thread before clicking the spam post button.

What part of "Tali helping to give Shepard time to get to cover is not clearly need and she does not have the fire power to support the qurians fleeing" you don't understand?

I mean, she has a shotgun, a pistol...She has no heavy weapons......She could do nothing.

[onelifecrisis]

kylecouch wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

I'd have to quote myself less often if you'd bother to read the thread before clicking the spam post button.

Why does every character have to have spines of steel? her help is not needed...thus theres no need for her to do everything. Besides that AI hacking dont work when Shields are up...and going kamikaze like that is also meaningless since she would likely be broken in half...shes not exactly a Krogan you know...

You seem to have jumped into this discussion halfway. The point being debated was that characters from ME1 went through inexplicable changes before appearing in ME2. In short, Tali should have a spine of steel in ME2 because she had a spine of steel in ME1. If you don't like my alternative cutscene, that's fine, I can make up something else, like this:

Tali said she and her team would "circle around the far side to draw off some of the drones and clear [Shepard] a path". There's no mention of a door that needs opening. So have the door open, have Shepard meet the YMIR mech before Tali has even arrived ("circling around the far side" would presumably take longer than the direct route anyway) and then have Tali walk in on the conversation with Veetor at the end. In other words, you could just scrap that cutscene with Tali wussing out and the game would be better for its absence.

You could even have Shepard say to Tali "I wish you'd gotten here sooner, we had to deal with a YMIR Mech" in acknowledgement of Tali's supposed proficiency at dealing with tech opposition.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 septembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

It is kinda lame....the Collector General has the unique ability to posses other Collectors. Harbinger in turn simply posseses the General...and uses the General's abilities to posses the Drones. In this way when the drones are killed, no harm is done to Harbinger since HE is technically only possesing the General, who is not killed. IMO the excuse works and is pulled off, but it just makes the Reaper's seem kinda pathetic.

I know this is the theory being spread around, but there is no evidence whatsoever of this hypothesis at all, except for the fact that Soverreign was defeated in an nonsensical way and there are people trying to consolidate that idea with the Collector General.

All in all, it all points out to a gameplay mechanic decision. Which should be forgotten and thrown to the dust bin of bad ideas. And most importantly, out of mass effect canon as fast as possible.

It's a theory supported by Mordin's conversation about the Collectors that amounts to them being little more than remote control drones after all the modifications that were made, and what's discovered about Collectors while on the "disabled" Collector vessel. 

[dreman9999]

onelifecrisis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'll try one more time...

Which part of "alternative cutscene" did you not understand?

I just don't see the purpose of it.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Several people seem determined to miss the point of the alternative cutscene I presented, which was that there are alternatives that don't involve Tali wussing out of a fight that she's ideally suited for.

I'd have to quote myself less often if you'd bother to read the thread before clicking the spam post button.

Why does every character have to have spines of steel? her help is not needed...thus theres no need for her to do everything. Besides that AI hacking dont work when Shields are up...and going kamikaze like that is also meaningless since she would likely be broken in half...shes not exactly a Krogan you know...

You seem to have jumped into this discussion halfway. The point being debated was that characters from ME1 went through inexplicable changes before appearing in ME2. In short, Tali should have a spine of steel in ME2 because she had a spine of steel in ME1. If you don't like my alternative cutscene, that's fine, I can make up something else, like this:

Tali said she and her team would "circle around the far side to draw off some of the drones and clear [Shepard] a path". There's no mention of a door that needs opening. So have the door open, have Shepard meet the YMIR mech before Tali has even arrived ("circling around the far side" would presumably take longer than the direct route anyway) and then have Tali walk in on the conversation with Veetor at the end. In other words, you could just scrap that cutscene with Tali wussing out and the game would be better for its absence.

Oh, right sure. She took on whole groups of enemies on her own in ME1.  All we saw in ME1 is when she is cornered she fights. Outside of that she is on support. In that scene in ME2, she was not cornered and she when out of the way to help the injured people of her team. Having her attack would not help anyone, and her focusing on the injured memebers of her team is a better use of her time.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
1)  If you're flying a UAV and someone shoots it down, do you pass out?
2)  "Consciousness" in this case is just some mystical mumbo-jumbo that makes no damn sense.  What he heck is a "consciouosness"? 

1. Not the same thing.  It's a control like a person directly controls their own body. This means feeling, thought, senses.....At this point Soverign almost becomes Saren.
2. I'm sorry. You don't understand what a conscionsness is....the upper level of mental life of which the person is aware as contrasted with unconscious processes ..
In point, I'm referring to the reapers Ego. Every intelligent being has an ego. I hope thing makesit clear.

Ego, shmeego, spare us the Freudian bunk.   You're using "consciousness" to put a pseudoscientific spin on what amounts to a "soul" or "spirit". 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 septembre 2011 - 06:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

You seem to have jumped into this discussion halfway. The point being debated was that characters from ME1 went through inexplicable changes before appearing in ME2. In short, Tali should have a spine of steel in ME2 because she had a spine of steel in ME1. If you don't like my alternative cutscene, that's fine, I can make up something else, like this:

Tali said she and her team would "circle around the far side to draw off some of the drones and clear [Shepard] a path". There's no mention of a door that needs opening. So have the door open, have Shepard meet the YMIR mech before Tali has even arrived ("circling around the far side" would presumably take longer than the direct route anyway) and then have Tali walk in on the conversation with Veetor at the end. In other words, you could just scrap that cutscene with Tali wussing out and the game would be better for its absence.

You could even have Shepard say to Tali "I wish you'd gotten here sooner, we had to deal with a YMIR Mech" in acknowledgement of Tali's supposed proficiency at dealing with tech opposition.

And you're basing all that on the fact that every single synthetic being in ME1 was hackable, even if the game itself tells you that they are very resistant to external hacking.

Another game mechanic that ME2 changed, so the geth would actually be a threat and not just a pushover if you had AI Hacking. 

Shields are also not made to absorb dozens and dozens of bullets.