6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Smud once argued that TIM not blockading the Omega IV relay was a plot hole. There is no literary theory in the world that says that is a plot hole. We call him on it. This is not denying that there are plot holes in ME2. This is saying that Smud has gone way overboard in his plot hole hunt.

There's a lot of wisdom in this part of your post. Yes, ME2's story does have plot holes. Examples include the extraordinary circumstances of the Lazarus Project, and every combat capable crew member suddenly deciding to go on a Kodiak pizza party when you're installing Reaper tech on the ship. I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of any at the moment (it's 7 AM, gimme a break). However, smudboy also considers many things to be plot holes, when they really aren't. (e.g. not discussing the possibility of mining/blockading the O4 relay, not wondering if there is an entire planet or even an entire system of planets full of Collectors beyond O4 when you figure out that it leads to the center of the galaxy)

Il Divo wrote...

 And in some cases (Mordin's Collector Bug, Ashley's revival), the necessary "fix" required a single line of dialogue to correct. 

In the case of the Seeker bug, even adding new dialogue may not be necessary. Moving existing dialogue from optional to mandatory and modifying it a bit would have been sufficient.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 29 août 2011 - 12:19 .

[Guldhun2]

Il Divo wrote...
This whole post, in a nutshell. But especially this bit. I agree with alot of what Smud says, but his point on how to deal with the relay was even worse than Mass Effect 2's plotline (in my opinion). Given the size and scope of the relay, mining it would not be a productive endeavor, based on time or resources. Likewise with a fleet of ships. I doubt the major players of the galaxy (Terminus Systems or otherwise) would look kindly on a standing army.

And this is why people don't understand Smudboy , in a nutshell. Placing mines around the relay, having ships patrol it, building a wall around it, sending a nuke in, are just examples. You breaking down why these examples are bad is missing the point.

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

And this is why people don't understand Smudboy , in a nutshell. Placing mines around the relay, having ships patrol it, building a wall around it, sending a nuke in, are just examples. You breaking down why these examples are bad is missing the point.

Then his point makes no sense. For TIM's plan to be a plothole, you have to demonstrate examples of better courses of action, not worse. Instead, Smud's approach is to point out ideas which I consider even more illogical than the basic plotline of Mass Effect 2. That does not convince me that we have a plothole. At the least, it says to me that TIM had a craptastic situation with no "great" method of dealing with it.

[Guldhun2]

Il Divo wrote...
Then his point makes no sense. For TIM's plan to be a plothole, you have to demonstrate examples of better courses of action, not worse. Instead, Smud's approach is to point out ideas which I consider even more illogical than the basic plotline of Mass Effect 2. That does not convince me that we have a plothole. At the least, it says to me that TIM had a craptastic situation with no "great" method of dealing with it.

Ok, pay of Aria. Or Kill her and have a puppet take her place. Then you place a ****load of mines around the relay. And then have a substantial number of ships patrol the relay. After that you can get the IFF, experiment with it and send some probes in.

A) If the probes work, send in missiles/kamikaze ships to blow up the base.
if the probes don't work, no problem. Just blow up any Collector ship that comes through.

There's only a couple thousand km drift, which isn't that much.


But you'd rather use a relay nobody has ever returned from with the single best ship in the galaxy ,with the best pilot in the alliance and the 14 most "badass"(no my words) people known, to fight an technologically advanced enemy which could number in the billions to the middle of the galaxy amongst black holes and supernova's?

Modifié par Guldhun2, 29 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Ok, pay of Aria. Or Kill her and have a puppet take her place.

Semi-feasible. If it works, which is not conclusive since we know Aria herself is a threat to TIM. It also doesn't take into account other threats.

Then you place a ****load of mines around the relay. And then have a substantial number of ships patrol the relay.
After that you can get the IFF, experiment with it and send some probes in.

Mining the relay is not feasible. I already went over this, given the number of exit points from a relay and given its size. The codex also indicates that space combat can be remarkably uncertain, given that any ship can withdraw at any point.

And I did acknowledge that Shepard should have sent probes in following the Reaper IFF.

A) If the probes work, send in missles/kamikazi ships to blow up the base.

You're kidding, right?

if the probes don't work, no problem. Just blow up any Collector ship that comes through.

Which gets us nothing. Part of our goal may be to kill/stop the Collectors. But this is with the end goal that we learn more about/stop the Reapers. Blowing up a Collector Ship does not get us through the Omega IV Relay, nor would we learn anything about our enemy (other than they are dead).

There's only a couple thousand km drift, which isn't that much.

The drift is the exact reason why no ship has returned, because they keep landing outside of the safe zone. In other words, yes, it is that much.

But you'd rather use a relay nobody has ever returned from with the single best ship in the galaxy ,with the best pilot in the alliance and the 14 most "badass"(no my words) people known, to fight an technologically advanced enemy which could number in the billions to the middle of the galaxy amongst black holes and supernova's?

So...there are flaws in the plan? This is unheard of...

Modifié par Il Divo, 29 août 2011 - 01:09 .

[Iakus]

Fathom72 wrote...

I'm honestly curious what kind of plot you would have preferred in ME2.  Aside from the Reapers invading in the second game, how would YOU write a plot in which they are the main antagonists, without losing focus in the overarching story?

Arrival.

Suicide mission sponsored by Cerberus to infiltrate batarian space to sabotage the Alpha Relay.  

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

This whole post, in a nutshell. But especially this bit. I agree with alot of what Smud says, but his point on how to deal with the relay was even worse than Mass Effect 2's plotline (in my opinion). Given the size and scope of the relay, mining it would not be a productive endeavor, based on time or resources. Likewise with a fleet of ships. I doubt the major players of the galaxy (Terminus Systems or otherwise) would look kindly on a standing army.

I don't think it's a matter of not blockading the relay, sor sending nukes in, or whatever, so much as the idea is never addressed.  There was no point where Shepard says :"What about...::balhblahblah" and TIM or Miranda going "We thought of that, it can't work because ::blahblahblah::"

Given Shep's been dead for two years and is new to the whole COllector thing anyway, he should probably be brought more up to speed on what's going on, rather than jusdt be sent rampaging cross the Terminus.

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Squee...how you just want to hand-wave the entire history of literary theory.

I had just shown my sister this. She cringed at your words. Mind you that books and writing are her profession.

There is some small amount of subectivity in determining bad writing. But that is minimal. Bad writing is a rather objective issue. You liking a book or not, or not agreeing with it is irrrelevant.
We're not talking about style - we're talking about substance and how literaly devices have been used to tell a story.

No we are not. We are talking about the idea that death and resurrection must contain elements of reflection and soul searching, or it is fundamentally wrong. It is simply an opinion, not a fact. It always has been and always will be. To say that the writers of mass effect (who write stories for a living and were hired by a company revered for making good stories) are bad writers simply because they have a different idea of how a death and resurrection should be handled than you do, is complete rubbish.


We are not talking about grammar, or sentence structure. We are not talking about tired and true methods of writing such as putting the climax at the end of a book, or creating some sort of conflict that needs to be resolved. Death and Resurrection is handled so many different ways in so many different stories that to say it MUST be done this way or it is wrong is like saying guys need to part their hair to the left or they are doing it wrong. Just because you think it should be parted to the left, does not mean anyone who does not agree with you is wrong.

We're talking about ME2 story in general (not jsut death & ressurection). But when if you want argue just that, it's still not done right. There's a TON of wasted potential just there.

Literary theory exist, weather you like to accpt it not. People who spent their whole lives analyzing stories compiled that theory.
Popularity DOES NOT equal good writing.
I don't know what qualification the writers of ME have really (note that most of the writers in the buisness actually have no appropriate college education), but I do know what they have written. ME2 is just simply bad writing full of plot holes.

And entertainign game, yes. A interesting story, yes. An experience, yes. But NOT good writing.

Yet you cannot seem to tell those apart. You are trapped in the "I like it = great writing" mentality.

Why do people keep talking about Literary theory or popularity =/= good writing? I am talking about one concept in stories. The concept of death and resurrection. The bolded statement above is opinion. 100% personal opinion. And yet you keep acting like it is some mathematical equation to which you have right answer. To be sure, I even sort of agree with you, but the idea that you could tote this as some Literary theory or fact is just ridiculous.


Smud feels that Death and resurrection MUST include some mystical moment with soul searching or personal trauma. The writer of ME2 obviously disagrees. Now what? It is a concept that has been dealt with a 100 different ways in literature throughout history.


It is the same as saying the twilight books are wrong because they made vampires that sparkle! Everyone knows Vampires do not sparkle! That is just bad writing! If you don't make vampire that burn up in the sun than you are doing it wrong! Because... Because... that is how everyone else did it!!! So my opinion is way more valid than yours!


To say that my concept of how Death should be handled is wrong and your concept is right is to ignore one of the greatest strength of fictional writing... Different points of view.


"trapped in the I like it = great writing mentality?" wow... so how many people read a book they hate and go... that was fantastic writing!!! They might say... well that was a well put together chain of events, and it made sense, but no one would call it great writing. Conversly, no one would read a book the loved and proclaim it was horribly written. They might point out so flaws that they forgave because of everything else, but they would not say, "This writing sucked!... yet I still loved it!"

You are trapped in the "Great writing must follow my rules and only my rules" mentality.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 29 août 2011 - 01:46 .

[Illiandri]

Do people still believe that the point of ME2 was to stop the Collectors? Bloody hell people are slow to piece together the pieces. The entire point of ME2 was to give Cerberus the Collectors base. Why the resurection of Shepard? Because they needed a front, a person universally recognisable, beyond suspicion, someone who TIM could spoonfeed info and know that his honour/anger would make him dance to Cerberus tunes. 4 billion credits for a development program is nothing, considering the F-22 development cost was 66 billion dollars. You performed the development and now you have tech that will allow you to ressurect your top agents. IMHO invaluable.

Watch the ending with the entire team dead and the base intact and watch TIM smile as his fleet approaches the collector base. His fleet.......... a fleet that would have to be equipped with IFFs if not wanting to end up either in a black hole or an exploding sun........ Hello people?????

TIM knew all along what was happening. Knew it was the Collectors, knew what was on the other side and simply spoon fed Shepard info. "Yes we have just acquired a IFF" Bull dung. Nobody knows how long the team was on the Reaper, what happened on it but we know what they copied. They copied the IFF. An IFF they could activate with no fear of Collector attack since Shepard blew up their cruiser and killed them all.

If one looks at all endings and piece together the puzzle from the perspectice of a master manipulator then there aren't so many plot holes.

EDIT: Here is the link

Watch TIM go "Just as planned."

Modifié par Illiandri, 29 août 2011 - 01:55 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

This whole post, in a nutshell. But especially this bit. I agree with alot of what Smud says, but his point on how to deal with the relay was even worse than Mass Effect 2's plotline (in my opinion). Given the size and scope of the relay, mining it would not be a productive endeavor, based on time or resources. Likewise with a fleet of ships. I doubt the major players of the galaxy (Terminus Systems or otherwise) would look kindly on a standing army.

I don't think it's a matter of not blockading the relay, sor sending nukes in, or whatever, so much as the idea is never addressed.  There was no point where Shepard says :"What about...::balhblahblah" and TIM or Miranda going "We thought of that, it can't work because ::blahblahblah::"

Given Shep's been dead for two years and is new to the whole COllector thing anyway, he should probably be brought more up to speed on what's going on, rather than jusdt be sent rampaging cross the Terminus.

They brought Shep up to speed after the first station he/she woke up on.
And no nukes are not a good Idea....why because It's underpowered in space, especaily when warp bomb in ME are better and throwing it in the relay and hope it hits or remote controling it would not work with all the defences around the base.

[Luigitornado]

This punk knows nothing about marketing. He's just another stupid fan upset with Bioware for stuff he shouldn't be upset with.

Honestly...I think gamers are the only groups of people on earth whom actually complain when they are not being marketed too.

-It's fairly obvious the QR codes were there to give a major hint that Earth plays a big role in ME3, and that the teaser was taken place in London.

-"Omniblad explanation doesn't make sense" IT IS A VIDEO GAME! He communicated the idea affectively and that's all what matters.

-His remarks about Clint Marshall are one sided.

-No one gives a flying goomba that speech recognition has been out since 2002. It is new to Mass Effect, and is a feature they were highlighting if you have Kinect.

It is confirmed. This guy is a douche.

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

This whole post, in a nutshell. But especially this bit. I agree with alot of what Smud says, but his point on how to deal with the relay was even worse than Mass Effect 2's plotline (in my opinion). Given the size and scope of the relay, mining it would not be a productive endeavor, based on time or resources. Likewise with a fleet of ships. I doubt the major players of the galaxy (Terminus Systems or otherwise) would look kindly on a standing army.

I don't think it's a matter of not blockading the relay, sor sending nukes in, or whatever, so much as the idea is never addressed.  There was no point where Shepard says :"What about...::balhblahblah" and TIM or Miranda going "We thought of that, it can't work because ::blahblahblah::"

Given Shep's been dead for two years and is new to the whole COllector thing anyway, he should probably be brought more up to speed on what's going on, rather than jusdt be sent rampaging cross the Terminus.

As I said earlier, you clearly expect more from your video game writing than I do.  Well, at least this style of video game.

Many previous RPGs were text heavy novels interwoven with simple tactical gameplay. I know in KotoR, they kept that style and you could listen for an hour while HK-47 described how to kill Jedi.

However, this game is written like an action movie. In LotR, why didn't they just drop the ring into the ocean? Why couldn't they just fly to Mordor on the Eagles? Oh, I know they went into that in the books but not in the movies. In movies you have less time and are trying to create a different kind of experience. You don't slow things down with loads of exposition. 

[Guldhun2]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
As I said earlier, you clearly expect more from your video game writing than I do.  Well, at least this style of video game.

Many previous RPGs were text heavy novels interwoven with simple tactical gameplay. I know in KotoR, they kept that style and you could listen for an hour while HK-47 described how to kill Jedi.

However, this game is written like an action movie. In LotR, why didn't they just drop the ring into the ocean? Why couldn't they just fly to Mordor on the Eagles? Oh, I know they went into that in the books but not in the movies. In movies you have less time and are trying to create a different kind of experience. You don't slow things down with loads of exposition. 

Action movies generally last around 90 minutes. ME2 if you don't rush through it could last 1600+ minutes. Your argument is flawed, please try again.


But i do agree that ME2s plot is comparable with low budget Uwe Boll action movies.

[dreman9999]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

This whole post, in a nutshell. But especially this bit. I agree with alot of what Smud says, but his point on how to deal with the relay was even worse than Mass Effect 2's plotline (in my opinion). Given the size and scope of the relay, mining it would not be a productive endeavor, based on time or resources. Likewise with a fleet of ships. I doubt the major players of the galaxy (Terminus Systems or otherwise) would look kindly on a standing army.

I don't think it's a matter of not blockading the relay, sor sending nukes in, or whatever, so much as the idea is never addressed.  There was no point where Shepard says :"What about...::balhblahblah" and TIM or Miranda going "We thought of that, it can't work because ::blahblahblah::"

Given Shep's been dead for two years and is new to the whole COllector thing anyway, he should probably be brought more up to speed on what's going on, rather than jusdt be sent rampaging cross the Terminus.

As I said earlier, you clearly expect more from your video game writing than I do.  Well, at least this style of video game.

Many previous RPGs were text heavy novels interwoven with simple tactical gameplay. I know in KotoR, they kept that style and you could listen for an hour while HK-47 described how to kill Jedi.

However, this game is written like an action movie. In LotR, why didn't they just drop the ring into the ocean? Why couldn't they just fly to Mordor on the Eagles? Oh, I know they went into that in the books but not in the movies. In movies you have less time and are trying to create a different kind of experience. You don't slow things down with loads of exposition. 

So with action movies, they explain every detail of the tech,planets and people in the story?

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 août 2011 - 02:25 .

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
As I said earlier, you clearly expect more from your video game writing than I do.  Well, at least this style of video game.

Many previous RPGs were text heavy novels interwoven with simple tactical gameplay. I know in KotoR, they kept that style and you could listen for an hour while HK-47 described how to kill Jedi.

However, this game is written like an action movie. In LotR, why didn't they just drop the ring into the ocean? Why couldn't they just fly to Mordor on the Eagles? Oh, I know they went into that in the books but not in the movies. In movies you have less time and are trying to create a different kind of experience. You don't slow things down with loads of exposition. 

Action movies generally last around 90 minutes. ME2 if you don't rush through it could last 1600+ minutes. Your argument is flawed, please try again.


But i do agree that ME2s plot is comparable with low budget Uwe Boll action movies.

Not even. Uwe boll movies don't have character growth. Ifyou think that, you need to relook into ME2's story.

[Guldhun2]

dreman9999 wrote...

Not even. Uwe boll movies don't have character growth. Ifyou think that, you need to relook into ME2's story.

That was a joke.

[Beerfish]

Dumber the thread or more blunt the attention whor** critic = the longer the thread on these forums.

[Whatever42]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Action movies generally last around 90 minutes. ME2 if you don't rush through it could last 1600+ minutes. Your argument is flawed, please try again.


But i do agree that ME2s plot is comparable with low budget Uwe Boll action movies.

No, its not flawed. 

First, action movies don't have a minute of dialogue followed by 30 minutes of shooting stuff.

Second, action movies have less content. ME2 had the main story missions but then numerous recruitment and loyalty missions.

But they were trying for the same effect: lots of action, snappy lines, along with some character development too but not with a ton of exposition. 

Again, sure they could have put in scenes where TIM answered questions for 30 minutes but that doesn't advance the story, character or action. So now we know why TIM didn't do 10 other things, great! Pointless and slows everything down but I'm sure there are at least 1% of our fans that care.

[111987]

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

[Guldhun2]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
No, its not flawed. 

First, action movies don't have a minute of dialogue followed by 30 minutes of shooting stuff.

Second, action movies have less content. ME2 had the main story missions but then numerous recruitment and loyalty missions.

But they were trying for the same effect: lots of action, snappy lines, along with some character development too but not with a ton of exposition. 

Again, sure they could have put in scenes where TIM answered questions for 30 minutes but that doesn't advance the story, character or action. So now we know why TIM didn't do 10 other things, great! Pointless and slows everything down but I'm sure there are at least 1% of our fans that care.

Agree, talking is worthless! All the great action movies have little talking, talking duuuur is hard!

http://www.imdb.com/chart/action

Oh wait, apparantly all the great action movies do have a lot of talking. Your argument is flawed, please try again.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 29 août 2011 - 02:45 .

[Guldhun2]

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

And to add to this...If they put a mine feild, would the collecters just blast their way throw. They can find state of the art stealth ships, what stopping them from finding and destroying mines.
Also, the patrol ship plan has a huge flaw in it, what happens when they find the collector ship. The collector would easily destroy any thing the galexy has to offer and TIM can't spit out 2 million dollar ships like candy.

[111987]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

Why can't I say it was a trap? If not for EDI, the trap would have worked too. The Collector's had no way of knowing that the Normandy had an AI on board that was based off of Reaper tech. If EDI wasn't there, Shepard and the crew would have been stuck on those platforms indefintely, or locked in the room with the Praetorian, or something to that effect. And while they dillied about the Collector Ship would have powered up and blown up the Normandy, as they were very close to doing even with EDI.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

That's not a plot hole. They wanted to trap him. The data they gave him/her had a bug in it that tried to take out the ship remeber. The plan failed because of EDI. The collectors wanted to take out the ship then get Shepard with the data.
Take notes next time.

[Guldhun2]

dreman9999 wrote...
And to add to this...If they put a mine feild, would the collecters just blast their way throw. They can find state of the art stealth ships, what stopping them from finding and destroying mines.
Also, the patrol ship plan has a huge flaw in it, what happens when they find the collector ship. The collector would easily destroy any thing the galexy has to offer and TIM can't spit out 2 million dollar ships like candy.

The STANDARD not upgraded guns of the normandy can destroy a collector ship.