6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Why take the risk with something this important?

It's like building a house on the volcano (without any measurements), confident it's perfectly safe becuase it didn't erupt for the last 10000 years. And then place the only cure for cancer in the house.

And you forget, the odds of it failing are increasing with every year/month that it didnt' fail.

Because the amount of preparation required is not off-set by the risk. 37 million years next to a brown dwarf with absolutely no issue. If you chose to live next to a volcano, you might have cause for concern. However, it's more likely you'll be fine. If you chose to visit a volcano for a week, a few days, a few hours, probability is even more likely to be on your side. We're not taking the Normandy for a daytime stroll, we're making a quick entrance and exit to pick up an IFF. If problems are going to arise, it's far more likely that it'll occur on the inside of the Reaper (Ex: indoctrination, husks).  There is nothing to justify the belief that (at this particular moment) the shields are going to fail, and that Shepard is going to go hurtling into the brown dwarf.

It's space bub.
Pulling massive things is not a problem, especially not with ME tech.

There's limits to what any Mass Effect technology is capable of doing. As I said, it dwarfs the Destiny Ascension. What Mass Effect technology will we be relying on to yank this thing? Liara? Jack? Liara and Jack together? And where will we be pulling it? Are we going to be attaching fusion torches, aka Bringing down the Sky? As I said, many questions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 28 septembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
You are being ridiculous, and I think you know it. If a ship could be overloaded by taking out its shields, there would be some evidence for it, a Codex entry or something. That fact is the Normandy's shields were depleted, just like you believe Sovereign's shields were depleted. Therefore, the Normandy should have shut down just like Sovereign in the debris field.

Watch the scene again. When Sovereign 'shuts down', no-one is firing at it.

Depleted is not the same as overloaded/overheated. If you can't learn the differenc,e there is no point in taling to you at all.

And the cutscene? It's accuracy is highly debatable for multiple reasons - and primiary reason being the devs themselves confirming it was rushed and not entirely accurate.

you dont' see any shots - but then again, mass driver would be too fast to see, no? And the fleet was fighting at hte tiem, so it only makes sense for them to also be shooting. Unless you can tell me wtf the fleet has been doing?

Why would Sovereign's shields be overloaded and not just depleted? You're not making any sense here.

Um, did you re-watch the scene? After Hackett gives the order, you see the ships resume attacking, including both mass accelerator rounds and disruptor torpedoes. Before that, nothing.

[Someone With Mass]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Even if it doesn't shut down, Sovereign is definately affected in some way by the destruction of Saren.

Looks like a power loss/overload, judging by all the flickering lights and the red sparks. The red sparks could've been the shields shutting down. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Which is, as I said beofer - utter bulls****. Stupidity of the heighest caliber.

What can sovereign accomplish with "direct control" of that type that it can't accomplish with regular remote control (not putting his mind direclty into it).
Ever heard of remote desktop? I can do everything on the computer I'm connected to, and nothing happens to mine if it blows up.
Ever heard of remote control? Same principle.

WHY does controling Saren hurt sovereign? Don't thro in some BS "energy" mumbo-jumbo. that doens't explain anything. It doesn't even make sense. If Sovereign invested energy in Saren, then it now has that energy back to use.

so again.

WHY would Sovereign use that kind of control? For what gain?
WHY would the destruction fo hte avatar hurt him?

you didn't give any proper answers to those.

How can Sovereign 'remote' control a corpse? Reapers have only been shown to be able of physically controlling an entity by 'possessing' them, for lack of a better word.

Controlling Saren doesn't hurt Sovereign. Being killed while possessing Saren does. Sovereign in some sense was 'killed' when Saren was destroyed. It was a very intimate relationship; Sovereign 'became' Saren. It makes perfect sense that this would stun it.

How can it not? Have you seen that corpse? It's all reaperized bones. It's like T-100.
Remote send and recive impulses and singlas to the implants. Simple.

And no, it doesn't make perfect sense. You again avoid to answer both question. WHY would Sovereign take such control? Why is that "intimacy" needed?
nothing makes sense..nothing..

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

It's space bub.
Pulling massive things is not a problem, especially not with ME tech.

There's limits to what any Mass Effect technology is capable of doing. As I said, it dwarfs the Destiny Ascension. What Mass Effect technology will we be relying on to yank this thing? Liara? Jack? Liara and Jack together? And where will we be pulling it? As I said, many questions.

Thrusters. Cheap, simple thrusters.

If they can push a asteroid many times the size of a reaper, then the reaper isn't a problem. And they got the whole ME fields which reduce the mass of object too...

you could pull/push that derelict reaper with todays tech easily...

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Thrusters. Cheap, simple thrusters.

If they can push a asteroid many times the size of a reaper, then the reaper isn't a problem. And they got the whole ME fields which reduce the mass of object too...

you could pull/push that derelict reaper with todays tech easily...

Edit: nevermind. Fair point. Now where are we going to haul it and how are we going to remain unseen? 

Modifié par Il Divo, 28 septembre 2011 - 07:48 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
You are being ridiculous, and I think you know it. If a ship could be overloaded by taking out its shields, there would be some evidence for it, a Codex entry or something. That fact is the Normandy's shields were depleted, just like you believe Sovereign's shields were depleted. Therefore, the Normandy should have shut down just like Sovereign in the debris field.

Watch the scene again. When Sovereign 'shuts down', no-one is firing at it.

Depleted is not the same as overloaded/overheated. If you can't learn the differenc,e there is no point in taling to you at all.

And the cutscene? It's accuracy is highly debatable for multiple reasons - and primiary reason being the devs themselves confirming it was rushed and not entirely accurate.

you dont' see any shots - but then again, mass driver would be too fast to see, no? And the fleet was fighting at hte tiem, so it only makes sense for them to also be shooting. Unless you can tell me wtf the fleet has been doing?

Why would Sovereign's shields be overloaded and not just depleted? You're not making any sense here.

Um, did you re-watch the scene? After Hackett gives the order, you see the ships resume attacking, including both mass accelerator rounds and disruptor torpedoes. Before that, nothing.

You're not making any sense here.
Again, Sovereign hs been taking gigatons of firepower. Thats massive quantities of energy/heat that has to go somewhere.
Ever read a codex? Ships have to vent heat or they melt.

And I ask agian - what was hte 5th fleet doing in those few minutes between cutscenes? Taking a smoking break?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, how would you know? It's alien equipment. It could go on for thousands of years, or it could fizzle out tomorrow.
Why take the risk with something this important?

It's like building a house on the volcano (without any measurements), confident it's perfectly safe becuase it didn't erupt for the last 10000 years. And then place the only cure for cancer in the house.

And you forget, the odds of it failing are increasing with every year/month that it didnt' fail.

It's been around in the same state for about thirteen and a half billion days.

If it stops working the same day when Shepard steps aboard, that'd be one hell of a coincidence.

If the shields were failing, then I think the Cerberus team would've noticed it. They seemed to have had enough time on their hands to figure something like that out.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How can it not? Have you seen that corpse? It's all reaperized bones. It's like T-100.
Remote send and recive impulses and singlas to the implants. Simple.

And
no, it doesn't make perfect sense. You again avoid to answer both
question. WHY would Sovereign take such control? Why is that "intimacy"
needed?
nothing makes sense..nothing..

Do you have a source saying that Reapers can control their implanted subjects without 'assuming direct control'?

Sending signals makes Saren more like a puppet, and it also means he doesn't get all of his super abilities. Directly controlling Saren makes Saren much more powerful (evidence; implanted Saren while alive doesn't have the abilites of Sovereign-Saren).

I did not avoid any questions, you just aren't getting it apparently.  Sovereign takes direct control because it gives it the best chance of success. Furthermore, it's a million year-old Reaper; it doesn't expect to lose to three puny organics.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You're not making any sense here.
Again, Sovereign hs been taking gigatons of firepower. Thats massive quantities of energy/heat that has to go somewhere.
Ever read a codex? Ships have to vent heat or they melt.

And I ask agian - what was hte 5th fleet doing in those few minutes between cutscenes? Taking a smoking break?

Gigatons of power??? Where on earth did that number come from? Not even close.

How can I debate with you when you're going to throw wildly innaccurate figues at me?

Have your read the Codex? Heat doesn't build up through a shield taking fire, heat builds up from firing their own weapons. Look it up.

Who knows what the 5th fleet was doing? All we know is that in the seconds during and right after Sovereign's collapse, they weren't firing. I could speculate (perhaps THEIR ships were oveheated), but that gets us nowhere

[Sajuro]

Arkitekt wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Arkitekt, from what I understand your point is that you don't have a point.

Don't insult my intelligence and we'll be fine Sajuro.

Sov shouldn't have been beaten by destroying Saren because you don't think it is good writing because apparently it ruins the Reapers for you or something >.> I'm not going to engage you on the level Dreman is, but I do not see the reason why it should be dropped from Canon.

It's exactly that, it ruins the reaper's scale for me. And of course it is "for me". I can't speak for anyone else but me, and I dare say that you are constrained by the same limitation. I won't make the same ridiculous mistake that Smudboy does and call my criticisms "objective absolute truths".

However, to disagree with my assessment on the assymetry of scale that is displayed in that event is to show a very very poor taste on your part. This should be reason enough for you to leave in shame and privately go have aesthetics lessons from some professional place. I won't tell anybody don't worry.

Smudboy's videos are based on retcons and ignoring plot points from the previous Mass Effect, so doing a retcon just because "sov was too awesome to be killed by shepard and it sucks!'

I'm not suggesting a retcon. I'm merely hoping that this "weakness" might not be even suggested / referenced, and least of everything, used in ME3. I'm hoping that the devs are sufficiently reasonable to just forget about this incident and pretend nothing like that happened. And invent other tactics.

Surely I'm also not suggesting a rewrite of ME1. Leave it as is, with its best things along with its errors. It's part of the gaming history now.

Like my earlier post said: Deal with it.

What you are really saying is "shut the **** up". I find your tone insulting and irritating.

1) I am not aiming to insult your intelligence, I am just stating that I view your point as being rather pointless.
2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.
Sorry, I can't go to the Arkitekt school of aesthetics to rehabilitate myself but I'm busy studying films
3)It would still be a stealth retcon or at the least Shepard holding the idiot ball, and getting rid of an important aspect of the Reaper's characters, that sometimes they get desperate and those desperation attacks can backfire on them seriously.
4) No, I mean what I say, you are saying it shouldn't be in ME3 because you don't like it and keep yelling that everytime anyone tries to explain it to you, I still have enough respect for you to say shut up if I mean shut up now shut up, just kidding... not really... yes I am

[Sajuro]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Which is, as I said beofer - utter bulls****. Stupidity of the heighest caliber.

What can sovereign accomplish with "direct control" of that type that it can't accomplish with regular remote control (not putting his mind direclty into it).
Ever heard of remote desktop? I can do everything on the computer I'm connected to, and nothing happens to mine if it blows up.
Ever heard of remote control? Same principle.

WHY does controling Saren hurt sovereign? Don't thro in some BS "energy" mumbo-jumbo. that doens't explain anything. It doesn't even make sense. If Sovereign invested energy in Saren, then it now has that energy back to use.

so again.

WHY would Sovereign use that kind of control? For what gain?
WHY would the destruction fo hte avatar hurt him?

you didn't give any proper answers to those.

How can Sovereign 'remote' control a corpse? Reapers have only been shown to be able of physically controlling an entity by 'possessing' them, for lack of a better word.

Controlling Saren doesn't hurt Sovereign. Being killed while possessing Saren does. Sovereign in some sense was 'killed' when Saren was destroyed. It was a very intimate relationship; Sovereign 'became' Saren. It makes perfect sense that this would stun it.

How can it not? Have you seen that corpse? It's all reaperized bones. It's like T-100.
Remote send and recive impulses and singlas to the implants. Simple.

And no, it doesn't make perfect sense. You again avoid to answer both question. WHY would Sovereign take such control? Why is that "intimacy" needed?
nothing makes sense..nothing..

yaoi fanfiction

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...

Who knows what the 5th fleet was doing? All we know is that in the seconds during and right after Sovereign's collapse, they weren't firing. I could speculate (perhaps THEIR ships were oveheated), but that gets us nowhere

Looks like they were regrouping to me. Everything near Sovereign was scrap.

[Arkitekt]

dreman9999 wrote...

Think about it this way.... Saren's body is taking in to Soverign to the point that it's part of Soverign body. The control is like a person controling their own body.... Every deteil felt by that body, good or bad is felt by Soverign in full detail. If the body is harmed, he feels it. So destroying that body is like someone crushing you foot with a hammer.  You get stunned from that.

dreman is incapable of understanding that I understand it completely yet do not accept it. dreman, you are incapable of understanding the difference between "understanding" and "accepting". I cannot continue this exchange if I want to keep myself sane.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arkitekt wrote...

dreman is incapable of understanding that I understand it completely yet do not accept it. dreman, you are incapable of understanding the difference between "understanding" and "accepting". I cannot continue this exchange if I want to keep myself sane.

I am in the odd position of disagreeing with you about the Sovereign/Saren thing, and yet knowing exactly what you mean about your "dicussion" with your fellow poster...

[Arkitekt]

111987 wrote...

Two orders of magnititude above Shepard? First of all I don't even know what you are talking about here. Are you forgetting that it took two years for Shepard to be reanimated? Sovereign reanimated Saren almost immediately. The comparisons are not equal at all.

Talk about failure of analogy. Such difference of time is attributed to the lack of technology, not "power". Saren's transformation is spectacular but it's still just a husk, not much unlike all the other thousands, just upgraded to have "rockets". I was reaching for the obvious analogue of metabolic power. The husk is clearly not spending much more than 1 or 2 orders of magnitude of power than Shepard's metabolism. He's just technologically superior.

You obviously don't understand the idea that losing a significant amount of energy could stun a Reaper.

No, you obviously don't understand the idea that Saren-the-husk "using a significant amount of energy" wrt a Reaper's scale is ****ing ridiculous. The insulting thing is that your claim is 100% incorrect. I understand the concept you summon completely, and nowhere in my comments could you find any hint that such was my problem. IOW, you are constantly fighting a strawman instead of my words.

The problem is not the idea that a significant amount of energy could stun a Reaper. The problem lies when you equate "significant amount of energy" for a Reaper with "Saren the husk". That's insanely bad maths. And you are apparently incapable of seeing this maddening difference of scale just as a blind man would be incapable of feeling vertigo if he was placed over the Grand Canyon.

Also consider this; Sovereign was in essence 'possessing' Saren's corpse and imbuing it with power. By killing Saren, you are in some ways killing Sovereign, as Sovereign has invested itself into the Saren corpse ("I am Sovereign, and this station is MINE!"). It is not ridiculous at all that Sovereign would be stunned briefly after being killed in another body.

Just as I won't discuss religious metaphysical beliefs with believers, I will also refrain from discussing the unfalsifiable metaphysical bull**** that you are spreading here. You think it's not ridiculous, well then you just don't have sensibility of proportions.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 28 septembre 2011 - 08:54 .

[Arkitekt]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

"Thats a poor way to construct a plot".

I wonder what kind of education this genius that gives clues to professionals has.

So a plot that starts in chapter 1, is completely ignored in 2 - 9, and continues in chapter 10 just before it ends, is a good plot?

So when did you stop beating your wife?

What plot are you talking about anyway? What did you learn about the Reapers and how to stop them in ME2? I didn't find anything, it's only about hunting down a insignificant bunch of pawns who are completely irrelevant to the apocalypse at hand.

I fail to see where "good" or "bad" enters the equation here. I like ME2's structure, it was intended this way and it makes a good game more in the looks of sci fi tv shows rather than a 20 hour megamovie. You don't. This is about taste, unless you show us something more than your indignation.

That's a poor way to construct a plot, a 3 year old child can understand that.

Problem is, I really don't have a clue who the **** you are and what the hell makes you think you have any authority to proclaim this as a "fact".

BTW, are you a "graduated plot professor" or something? If not, what the hell are you doing here anyway?

I never tried to tell anyone how "to build a plot", as if I knew how the hell the writing creative process works.

[111987]

Arkitekt wrote...

111987 wrote...

Two orders of magnititude above Shepard? First of all I don't even know what you are talking about here. Are you forgetting that it took two years for Shepard to be reanimated? Sovereign reanimated Saren almost immediately. The comparisons are not equal at all.

Talk about failure of analogy. Such difference of time is attributed to the lack of technology, not "power". Saren's transformation is spectacular but it's still just a husk, not much unlike all the other thousands, just upgraded to have "rockets". I was reaching for the obvious analogue of metabolic power. The husk is clearly not spending much more than 1 or 2 orders of magnitude of power than Shepard's metabolism. He's just technologically superior.

You obviously don't understand the idea that losing a significant amount of energy could stun a Reaper.

No, you obviously don't understand the idea that Saren-the-husk "using a significant amount of energy" wrt a Reaper's scale is ****ing ridiculous. The insulting thing is that your claim is 100% incorrect. I understand the concept you summon completely, and nowhere in my comments could you find any hint that such was my problem. IOW, you are constantly fighting a strawman instead of my words.

The problem is not the idea that a significant amount of energy could stun a Reaper. The problem lies when you equate "significant amount of energy" for a Reaper with "Saren the husk". That's insanely bad maths. And you are apparently incapable of seeing this maddening difference of scale just as a blind man would be incapable of feeling vertigo if he was placed over the Grand Canyon.

Also consider this; Sovereign was in essence 'possessing' Saren's corpse and imbuing it with power. By killing Saren, you are in some ways killing Sovereign, as Sovereign has invested itself into the Saren corpse ("I am Sovereign, and this station is MINE!"). It is not ridiculous at all that Sovereign would be stunned briefly after being killed in another body.

Just as I won't discuss religious metaphysical beliefs with believers, I will also refrain from discussing the unfalsifiable metaphysical bull**** that you are spreading here. You think it's not ridiculous, well then you just don't have sensibility of proportions.

You really need to cool down. It seriously sounds like you're nerd-raging at the screen sometimes.

I understand that you don't think that the energy needed to power Sovereign would have been enough of a loss to stun it. I GET IT. Like I said in the point that you just completley ignored, Sovereign became Saren. By killing Saren you were in some aspects killing Sovereign. This equates to a temporary shut-down.

[Sajuro]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

mm, Starbuck would like to have a word with you
otherwise to each his own.

[Arkitekt]

Sajuro wrote...


1) I am not aiming to insult your intelligence, I am just stating that I view your point as being rather pointless.

Then why are you replying? If you agree with my point or find it irrelevant, then leave it alone as is. Why then pretend that I said something else in order to attack it? Because you're bored? I'm not your monkey here.

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.

Big M word shows up and I stop the conversation. Once unfalsifiable bull**** comes to the discussion, everything and nothing is possible at the same time. It's like using cheats in a game. (Even the Matrix analogy is wrong, since what happens in Revolutions is Neo sacrificing his own life by letting himself exposed to Smith's virulence, while the machines in the city use this new link to Smith to destroy it... there's no metaphysics here, just imagined advanced hacking tactics).

I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

And don't we all love deus ex machina's plots?

Sorry, I can't go to the Arkitekt school of aesthetics to rehabilitate myself but I'm busy studying films  

Dear lord.

3)It would still be a stealth retcon or at the least Shepard holding the idiot ball, and getting rid of an important aspect of the Reaper's characters, that sometimes they get desperate and those desperation attacks can backfire on them seriously.

Study your material better. "Retcon" has nothing to do with my hopes about ME3. By simply "forgetting" this event took place, they could however prevent any inconsistency with it. Therefore, people who are incapable of understanding that this event is ridiculous and think it's an important aspect of ME's lore wouldn't be pissed, and I wouldn't be majorly facepalmed with the execution of "Saren Maneuver beta 3" by Shep et al.

4) No, I mean what I say, you are saying it shouldn't be in ME3 because you don't like it and keep yelling that everytime anyone tries to explain it to you, I still have enough respect for you to say shut up if I mean shut up now shut up, just kidding... not really... yes I am

He, that's actually better. 

[Arkitekt]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I am in the odd position of disagreeing with you about the Sovereign/Saren thing, and yet knowing exactly what you mean about your "dicussion" with your fellow poster...

I feel your pain.

[Sajuro]

Arkitekt wrote...

Sajuro wrote...


1) I am not aiming to insult your intelligence, I am just stating that I view your point as being rather pointless.

Then why are you replying? If you agree with my point or find it irrelevant, then leave it alone as is. Why then pretend that I said something else in order to attack it? Because you're bored? I'm not your monkey here.

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.

Big M word shows up and I stop the conversation. Once unfalsifiable bull**** comes to the discussion, everything and nothing is possible at the same time. It's like using cheats in a game. (Even the Matrix analogy is wrong, since what happens in Revolutions is Neo sacrificing his own life by letting himself exposed to Smith's virulence, while the machines in the city use this new link to Smith to destroy it... there's no metaphysics here, just imagined advanced hacking tactics).

I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

And don't we all love deus ex machina's plots?

Sorry, I can't go to the Arkitekt school of aesthetics to rehabilitate myself but I'm busy studying films  

Dear lord.

3)It would still be a stealth retcon or at the least Shepard holding the idiot ball, and getting rid of an important aspect of the Reaper's characters, that sometimes they get desperate and those desperation attacks can backfire on them seriously.

Study your material better. "Retcon" has nothing to do with my hopes about ME3. By simply "forgetting" this event took place, they could however prevent any inconsistency with it. Therefore, people who are incapable of understanding that this event is ridiculous and think it's an important aspect of ME's lore wouldn't be pissed, and I wouldn't be majorly facepalmed with the execution of "Saren Maneuver beta 3" by Shep et al.

4) No, I mean what I say, you are saying it shouldn't be in ME3 because you don't like it and keep yelling that everytime anyone tries to explain it to you, I still have enough respect for you to say shut up if I mean shut up now shut up, just kidding... not really... yes I am

He, that's actually better. 

1) Killing time in between dieing slowly on the inside homework and studying
2) I was actually talking about the whole "you die in the matrix you die in real life" even though I know its because the wounds show up somehow one your body, I like to think it just murders your mind.
3) I don't, not really
4) Oh it's not like film could get worse than Alvin and the Chipmunks.
5)Dammit, you know that's one of the Kinect commands they are going to put in ME3.

[Arkitekt]

111987 wrote...

I understand that you don't think that the energy needed to power Sovereign would have been enough of a loss to stun it. I GET IT. Like I said in the point that you just completley ignored, Sovereign became Saren. By killing Saren you were in some aspects killing Sovereign. This equates to a temporary shut-down.

Yeah you're right, sometimes I let myself off the hook.

Thing is you are into mumbojumbo again. I know that's what the plot is, I find it impressively bad in that detail. Symbolically works like a charm. It really does. Soverreign gets annoyed at this insignificant human who is constantly stopping him from his objectives, wants the citadel real badly and "injects himself" into Saren's body. Saren is defeated and Soverreign gets "stunned" (if not immediately killed). Very cinematic.

However, when you punch the numbers and some technical logic, it makes no frakking sense. It's worse if you are almost unable to stop doing this while you are playing. Some times, this is avoided by simply not having this immediate sense of BS detection alarm. My method is also simple. Whenever these kinds of egregious inconsistencies appear on my screen I mentally shout TRALALALALA and pretend that it's all consistent (even if I have to mentally yell to my left brain to shut the **** up I'm playing a game that's all), and I might get lucky and forget about it.

It doesn't degrade my thoughts on Mass Effect. From the start I never took it that seriously enough.

[111987]

Arkitekt wrote...

111987 wrote...

I understand that you don't think that the energy needed to power Sovereign would have been enough of a loss to stun it. I GET IT. Like I said in the point that you just completley ignored, Sovereign became Saren. By killing Saren you were in some aspects killing Sovereign. This equates to a temporary shut-down.

Yeah you're right, sometimes I let myself off the hook.

Thing is you are into mumbojumbo again. I know that's what the plot is, I find it impressively bad in that detail. Symbolically works like a charm. It really does. Soverreign gets annoyed at this insignificant human who is constantly stopping him from his objectives, wants the citadel real badly and "injects himself" into Saren's body. Saren is defeated and Soverreign gets "stunned" (if not immediately killed). Very cinematic.

However, when you punch the numbers and some technical logic, it makes no frakking sense. It's worse if you are almost unable to stop doing this while you are playing. Some times, this is avoided by simply not having this immediate sense of BS detection alarm. My method is also simple. Whenever these kinds of egregious inconsistencies appear on my screen I mentally shout TRALALALALA and pretend that it's all consistent (even if I have to mentally yell to my left brain to shut the **** up I'm playing a game that's all), and I might get lucky and forget about it.

It doesn't degrade my thoughts on Mass Effect. From the start I never took it that seriously enough.

Fair enough. Yeah it does seem a little too much like possession for a game that is sci-fi, not fantasy.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sajuro wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

mm, Starbuck would like to have a word with you
otherwise to each his own.

That wasn't science fiction, that was scyfy... bleah.