6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

mm, Starbuck would like to have a word with you
otherwise to each his own.

That wasn't science fiction, that was scyfy... bleah.

Battlestar Galactica is Science Fiction, just because it incorporates some more metaphyisical elements doesn't mean it's not
and just once more METAPHYSICAL

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sajuro wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

mm, Starbuck would like to have a word with you
otherwise to each his own.

That wasn't science fiction, that was scyfy... bleah.

Battlestar Galactica is Science Fiction, just because it incorporates some more metaphyisical elements doesn't mean it's not
and just once more METAPHYSICAL

Meh, standard TV dramatripe with space and robots trappings.

[dreman9999]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. You don't read the mission statements? It not like the game take you to some random place for random reasons. Each mission has a reason. Just because you don't pay attention does not mean the story is random.
2.I think you don't get what bioware is trying to show you with the dead reaper......Think of it this way....Even if the reaper is brain dead the body of a reaper is immortal. It body will always work if it's not broken apart. If left alone the reapers body will last forever. You looking at it as a ship....Look at it as someones body to understand it. The mind is gone but the body still works.
3. That how your write a trilogy.... Trilogies tend to not tell you everything bout the story at once.

1. I'm not discussing what the game tells me to do. I merely question the reasoning behind it. When the Reapers are the main threat, ignoring the only ship in existence waiting to give away its secrets, to grab a device to hunt a bunch of insignificant Collectors is stupid.

2. I don't want to think what Bioware might want to tell us. I want a story that's consistent and clear about the crucial events. The only thing Shep needs to know about the Reapers is how to kill them. The game throws all sort of worthless info at the player, a military (wo)man only needs to know how to kill its enemies. There's nothing in ME2 that even hints towards an attempt to figure this out.

3. A trilogy is a piece of work cut into three parts. That doesn't mean the first two parts tell little or nothing, and the last part explains it all. If that's the case it has been pointless to create a trilogy - the final part is all you need. Someone who hasn't played ME1 and 2, hasn't missed a thing about the main plot. The Reapers are coming and we have no clue how to stop them. We knew that already, or those who didn't will know after watching the ME3 intro.

1. The colector work for the reapers.. Attcking the collector get's info on the reapers and stop their first stage plans....It not you stop fighting reapers. You get more info on them where you can.
2. You want a story that tells you every thing on a silver plate. You don't want to think. If you want to understand the story ...you need to think. The problem is you not given the entire story if full yet.
3.In ME1 and ME2  alot of detail on what will happen is dropped with details hint and major story element. It's something that will come up if you put the parts together.

[dreman9999]

Arkitekt wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Think about it this way.... Saren's body is taking in to Soverign to the point that it's part of Soverign body. The control is like a person controling their own body.... Every deteil felt by that body, good or bad is felt by Soverign in full detail. If the body is harmed, he feels it. So destroying that body is like someone crushing you foot with a hammer.  You get stunned from that.

dreman is incapable of understanding that I understand it completely yet do not accept it. dreman, you are incapable of understanding the difference between "understanding" and "accepting". I cannot continue this exchange if I want to keep myself sane.

I understand you do understand. It's the accepting part and reason your not accepting that makes know sense. You saying it should not happen without anything stated to support why it should not happen. Say a billion in one mind should not be stunned like that is pointless because there is no rule book to say that a billion in one mind should not be stunned like that. Their is nothing to point to to say this is why it can't happen. It in the power of the write to apply what is or is not a weakness of a being. This weakness of the reapers is not some uncovered small hole on it's back that they can shoot the right way to make it explode, this something that happens so rarly that the reaper has to be desprate to have this weakness shown.
How can you not understand that you have no grounds to sayit bad bioware wrote it that way outside that fact that you just don't like it. And complain whne the detail of it is explain to you is very arrogant.

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 septembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

2)I prefer to view it as a metaphysical event actually in combination with the whole second body concept. Sovereign put himself into Saren Husk to tangle with Shepard while he left his huge ass warship body on autopilot to continue trying to access the citadel systems while blasting Alliance ships to bits. Shepard defeats Sovereign and a) kills his mind ala The Matrix or shoves his mind back into the body stunning him.
I understand you think this degrades the reapers because they should have come up with a solution, but what if there isn't one? super advanced technology and eezo don't solve everything. I actually like that about the Reapers because they aren't the invincible machines who automatically kick our asses until Shepard gets deus ex machine or shoots a torpedo into their exhaust ports.

Whereas I'm completely against any solution that devolves the setting/game into metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.  Anything regarding the Sovereign/Saren thing into "possession" or "soul transfers" gets the immediate REJECTION. 

But it's not Metaphysical. That just how a mind works. Not that I'm saying it was a soul transfer....It's not. It just a self controling two bodies. Think of it more like adding an extra arm. And the mind is not killed with the destroction of Saren's body.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Thrusters. Cheap, simple thrusters.

If they can push a asteroid many times the size of a reaper, then the reaper isn't a problem. And they got the whole ME fields which reduce the mass of object too...

you could pull/push that derelict reaper with todays tech easily...

Edit: nevermind. Fair point. Now where are we going to haul it and how are we going to remain unseen? 

Last  I checked, that system was empty.
Move it to anywhere really...the lagrange point between two planets? In stable orbit around a planet?
Dark side of hte local moon?

You got plenty of possible locations.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
It's been around in the same state for about thirteen and a half billion days.

If it stops working the same day when Shepard steps aboard, that'd be one hell of a coincidence.

If the shields were failing, then I think the Cerberus team would've noticed it. They seemed to have had enough time on their hands to figure something like that out.

Alien tech? Why do you assume Cerberus scientists would know or be sure?
Anen't you the champion of hte "Cerberus is morons" movement?

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How can it not? Have you seen that corpse? It's all reaperized bones. It's like T-100.
Remote send and recive impulses and singlas to the implants. Simple.

And
no, it doesn't make perfect sense. You again avoid to answer both
question. WHY would Sovereign take such control? Why is that "intimacy"
needed?
nothing makes sense..nothing..

Do you have a source saying that Reapers can control their implanted subjects without 'assuming direct control'?

Why couldn't it? Do you have any logical reason why something like that would be impossible?
Shep can remote-control a security robot easily. Why can't Sovereign do something like that?

Exactly what is the problem with hawing a LOWER-LEVEL control?? How cna this be impossible if Sovy can attain higher-levle control? The former is far simpler and less difficult.

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Sending signals makes Saren more like a puppet, and it also means he doesn't get all of his super abilities. Directly controlling Saren makes Saren much more powerful (evidence; implanted Saren while alive doesn't have the abilites of Sovereign-Saren).

Ermmm....why?
ALL contol is down to recieveing/sending signals. You control your own body that way.
Send a singal to the arm to flex - arm flexes. What's so difficult to understand about such a concpet?

You're not making any sense here...
And no, that's not evidence. Sovereign further upgraded Sarens corpse..you can see it changing.

I did not avoid any questions, you just aren't getting it apparently.  Sovereign takes direct control because it gives it the best chance of success. Furthermore, it's a million year-old Reaper; it doesn't expect to lose to three puny organics.

It makes no sense.
What better chances? Why better chances?
Sovy may be a million-year old reaper, but his "avatar" isn't as mighy as his ship form...and he knows that.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You're not making any sense here.
Again, Sovereign hs been taking gigatons of firepower. Thats massive quantities of energy/heat that has to go somewhere.
Ever read a codex? Ships have to vent heat or they melt.

And I ask agian - what was hte 5th fleet doing in those few minutes between cutscenes? Taking a smoking break?

Gigatons of power??? Where on earth did that number come from? Not even close.

How can I debate with you when you're going to throw wildly innaccurate figues at me?

Have your read the Codex? Heat doesn't build up through a shield taking fire, heat builds up from firing their own weapons. Look it up.

Who knows what the 5th fleet was doing? All we know is that in the seconds during and right after Sovereign's collapse, they weren't firing. I could speculate (perhaps THEIR ships were oveheated), but that gets us nowhere

1. A single shot from a main cannon = a nuke equlent of energy. You got a whole fleet shooting at it. That's a metric crapton of power.

2. Thermodynamics. Energy can't be destroyed. The energy of the shot is absorbed by the shields. You take extra heat from enemy fire. Adn runnin your own systems at full capacity.
Also, I read hte codex. Adn there's not a single line confirming what you said.

3. The 5'th fleet was fighting. Thet's what it was doing. Weather someone messed up with the cutscene (and we already know the cutscene isn't 100% accurate anyway) or it's simply a Bio oversight, I do not know.
Thing is, if they were in combat then they wshould be shooting - not standing idle.
Because if they were standing around ,then that makes the story even worse.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

111987 wrote...

Who knows what the 5th fleet was doing? All we know is that in the seconds during and right after Sovereign's collapse, they weren't firing. I could speculate (perhaps THEIR ships were oveheated), but that gets us nowhere

Looks like they were regrouping to me. Everything near Sovereign was scrap.

"near" is relative in space.
Not to menttion taht it's silly to do what your'e saying aynway.

Sovy can one-shot them. You dont' waste precious seconds showing it your even more vulnerable backside. You fire. For all you're worth.
They can't doge it's cannons at that range anyway, so keeping your nose pointed and shooting is the smartest course of action.

Not to mention - cutscene is not 100% accurate.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Please explain why this would be odd at all.

[Sajuro]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Please explain why this would be odd at all.

I suppose he thinks it so because guns are more advanced than bows, instead of thinking about what it takes to make a bow and to maintain it.

[Biotic Sage]

NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NM SB D!

Seriously.

And I hate using caps. And exclamation points. But...

Seriously.

[Sajuro]

Biotic Sage wrote...

NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NM SB D!

Seriously.

And I hate using caps. And exclamation points. But...

Seriously.

we aren't we are discussing how Sovereign was defeated by Shepard killing Saren husk.

[Biotic Sage]

Sajuro wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NO MORE SMUDBOY DISCUSSION! NM SB D!

Seriously.

And I hate using caps. And exclamation points. But...

Seriously.

we aren't we are discussing how Sovereign was defeated by Shepard killing Saren husk.

Oh I know.  But this thread is still at the top of Page 1.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sajuro wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Please explain why this would be odd at all.

I suppose he thinks it so because guns are more advanced than bows, instead of thinking about what it takes to make a bow and to maintain it.

It's simpler to both build and mantain....Do you have a point here?

[Sajuro]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Please explain why this would be odd at all.

I suppose he thinks it so because guns are more advanced than bows, instead of thinking about what it takes to make a bow and to maintain it.

It's simpler to both build and mantain....Do you have a point here?

what kind of wood is best to build it, what about string? Do you know how to carve an arrow head correctly? and no peaking on the web. Just because you know how to make a gun doesn't mean you know how to make a long bow or a short bow.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's like knowing how to build a gun, but a bow and arrow being beyond you.

Please explain why this would be odd at all.

I suppose he thinks it so because guns are more advanced than bows, instead of thinking about what it takes to make a bow and to maintain it.

It's simpler to both build and mantain....Do you have a point here?

Point is, that is one of the worst examples of anything ever, you may as well have said "they can put a man on the Moon."  just because someone can forge a claymore doesn't mean he can forge a katana.

I have been skimming through this thread for a few days now, and you are just disagreeing to disagree, "Well X didn't happen this way so it is horrible writing and they should have done Y."

If you are planning on going on a crusade against stupidity your first step may as well be leaving BSN, and learning how to spell.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 septembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Sajuro]

Simply put, from bows to guns is not a linear progression of technology.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's simpler to both build and mantain....Do you have a point here?

Point is, that is one of the worst examples of anything ever, you may as well have said "they can put a man on the Moon."  just because someone can forge a claymore doesn't mean he can forge a katana.

I have been skimming through this thread for a few days now, and you are just disagreeing to disagree, "Well X didn't happen this way so it is horrible writing and they should have done Y."

If you are planning on going on a crusade against stupidity your first step may as well be leaving BSN, and learning how to spell.

As  I suspected, you don't have a point. You're just here to troll as usual.

If you cna build a super.modern jet fighter, then a normal bi-plane shouldn't be a problem. IF yo udotn' like that example pick another. Doesn't matter.

Point remains - normal remote control is not beyond the ability of reapers. To think otherwise is stupidity of the highest caliber.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sajuro wrote...

Simply put, from bows to guns is not a linear progression of technology.

Missing...the...point.

[Someone With Mass]

Sajuro wrote...

Simply put, from bows to guns is not a linear progression of technology.

Spears to bows is more closer to it.

[Shepard the Leper]

Arkitekt wrote...

So when did you stop beating your wife?

If you're trying to make yourself look like a dick, you're on the right track.

I fail to see where "good" or "bad" enters the equation here. I like ME2's structure, it was intended this way and it makes a good game more in the looks of sci fi tv shows rather than a 20 hour megamovie. You don't. This is about taste, unless you show us something more than your indignation.

Problem is, I really don't have a clue who the **** you are and what the hell makes you think you have any authority to proclaim this as a "fact".

I never tried to tell anyone how "to build a plot", as if I knew how the hell the writing creative process works.

Have you ever writen anything? An essay, story, or whatever? Apperantly not, because if you did, you would have known there are certain rules one has to follow to. There are rules about "building" a sentence, like there are rules how to construct a story or plot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ME's main story arc about stopping / defeating the Reapers? Is there any progression in ME2 at all? If there is, I've must have missed it coz at the end of ME2, Shepard is in the exact same situation as when (s)he starts ME2.

A plot without any progression is a bad plot. That  has nothing to do with taste. If you knew anything about creative processes in general, you wouldn't make such ridiculous points.

[sponge56]

Wait wait wait, how could we study the derelict reaper in detail? Didn't it trap Shepard and his team inside, hence why they had to destroy its mass effect core thingy? Sure they could have waited around to study it but surely that would have led them to be indocrinated

[Someone With Mass]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Have you ever writen anything? An essay, story, or whatever? Apperantly not, because if you did, you would have known there are certain rules one has to follow to. There are rules about "building" a sentence, like there are rules how to construct a story or plot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ME's main story arc about stopping / defeating the Reapers? Is there any progression in ME2 at all? If there is, I've must have missed it coz at the end of ME2, Shepard is in the exact same situation as when (s)he starts ME2.

A plot without any progression is a bad plot. That  has nothing to do with taste. If you knew anything about creative processes in general, you wouldn't make such ridiculous points.

Is he?

Because I helped Mordin with the genophage, and I have Legion on my side, who's pretty much the ambassador of the geth. Gathering allies, in other words.

We also know why the Reapers are doing what they're doing and what really happened to the Protheans.

Shepard also helped Liara becoming the new Shadow Broker, which can be very helpful in the future.

Progress can be made in different ways.

[sponge56]

Shepard the Leper wrote...


Have you ever writen anything? An essay, story, or whatever? Apperantly not, because if you did, you would have known there are certain rules one has to follow to. There are rules about "building" a sentence, like there are rules how to construct a story or plot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ME's main story arc about stopping / defeating the Reapers? Is there any progression in ME2 at all? If there is, I've must have missed it coz at the end of ME2, Shepard is in the exact same situation as when (s)he starts ME2.

A plot without any progression is a bad plot. That  has nothing to do with taste. If you knew anything about creative processes in general, you wouldn't make such ridiculous points.

Bu the same happens in LoTR.  In the Two Towers sam and frodo still havent got to Mordor, and although Saruman is defeated, Sauron is still a larger threat than ever and the film/novel doesn't really establish anything else other than being an awesome second part in the trilogy.  Whats the difference in the side line of destroying Saruman and the sideline in ME2 of stopping the collectors?