6494 réponses à ce sujet

[littlezack]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

Weird and arguably not very smart of them, but that's not a plot hole.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And to add to this...If they put a mine feild, would the collecters just blast their way throw. They can find state of the art stealth ships, what stopping them from finding and destroying mines.
Also, the patrol ship plan has a huge flaw in it, what happens when they find the collector ship. The collector would easily destroy any thing the galexy has to offer and TIM can't spit out 2 million dollar ships like candy.

The STANDARD not upgraded guns of the normandy can destroy a collector ship.

At close suicidal range... And that was because the SR-2 has a very good pilot, an super inteligent AI assist and started the first approch. A patrol ship would not have that or get that close.

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 août 2011 - 02:58 .

[dreman9999]

littlezack wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

Weird and arguably not very smart of them, but that's not a plot hole.

The statement already has a clear answer. Look at the last page.

[SpiffySquee]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's one thing to say that Mass Effect 2 has plot holes, but it's another thing to actually point them out. So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes. People have presented cases of bad writing (the whole Resurrection thing), but not actual plot holes.

And since I've seen this argument again...you CANNOT mine or guard the Omega 4 Relay! It simply cannot be done. Even if you can kill Aria and replace her with someone who wouldn't mind you doing these things (which is an incredibly risky plan to begin with, marching straight in to kill the most powerful person in Omega? Right...), you cannot patrol the massive area around the Omega 4 Relay. A drift of several thousand kilometers is too big to patrol, especially considering Cerberus's limited resources. And even if you did have enough ships to patrol, you have no idea when the Collectors will emerge from the Relay, which means everyone has to be on full alert all the time, which simply isn't realistic. Assuming it is...what's stopping the Collector's from engaging into FTL as soon as they see a fleet of ships approaching them? This is simply a foolish plan.

And the probe idea is silly too. Even with the IFF, they would just be shot down. Even if they weren't, how would it help? Eventually you're going to have to travel through the Relay yourself if you want to stop the Collectors.

There's a ton of plot holes. But i'll give you a big one. Since according to you "So far I haven't seen anyone point out any significant plot holes".

Ready?

--> The Collectors turning off their ship and it's defences just so they can let Shepard come in and take data from it. There's no good explanation why they let him take that data. Bam, significant plot hole. And don't tell me it's a trap.

Right, don't say it was a trap because that would invalidate my argument. They have an interest in Shepard. that was made very clear. They lured him onto the ship in order to "trap him". They did not "give" anything to Shepard. Shepard's AI stripped the data from them.

Besides, how is this a plot hole? You don't know anything about the collectors, so it does not go against any established lore, or count as behavior not constant with the collectors. You have no idea how they would normally behave. At best you could argue the trap was not the best idea... but a failed plan does not come close to being a plot hole.

What is you are so found of saying? Oh yes... Your argument is flawed, please try again.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 29 août 2011 - 03:01 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

Illiandri wrote...

Do people still believe that the point of ME2 was to stop the Collectors? Bloody hell people are slow to piece together the pieces. The entire point of ME2 was to give Cerberus the Collectors base. Why the resurection of Shepard? Because they needed a front, a person universally recognisable, beyond suspicion, someone who TIM could spoonfeed info and know that his honour/anger would make him dance to Cerberus tunes. 4 billion credits for a development program is nothing, considering the F-22 development cost was 66 billion dollars. You performed the development and now you have tech that will allow you to ressurect your top agents. IMHO invaluable.

Watch the ending with the entire team dead and the base intact and watch TIM smile as his fleet approaches the collector base. His fleet.......... a fleet that would have to be equipped with IFFs if not wanting to end up either in a black hole or an exploding sun........ Hello people?????

TIM knew all along what was happening. Knew it was the Collectors, knew what was on the other side and simply spoon fed Shepard info. "Yes we have just acquired a IFF" Bull dung. Nobody knows how long the team was on the Reaper, what happened on it but we know what they copied. They copied the IFF. An IFF they could activate with no fear of Collector attack since Shepard blew up their cruiser and killed them all.

If one looks at all endings and piece together the puzzle from the perspectice of a master manipulator then there aren't so many plot holes.

EDIT: Here is the link

Watch TIM go "Just as planned."

Yeah, I also have a feeling that that's what he wanted from the beginning. He also gets very pissed off if you destroy the base.

[bduff4545]

Luigitornado wrote...

This punk knows nothing about marketing. He's just another stupid fan upset with Bioware for stuff he shouldn't be upset with.

Honestly...I think gamers are the only groups of people on earth whom actually complain when they are not being marketed too.

-It's fairly obvious the QR codes were there to give a major hint that Earth plays a big role in ME3, and that the teaser was taken place in London.

-"Omniblad explanation doesn't make sense" IT IS A VIDEO GAME! He communicated the idea affectively and that's all what matters.

-His remarks about Clint Marshall are one sided.

-No one gives a flying goomba that speech recognition has been out since 2002. It is new to Mass Effect, and is a feature they were highlighting if you have Kinect.

It is confirmed. This guy is a douche.

Confirmed, smudboy is a douche.

[bduff4545]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Funny really how Squee and the rest can't defend massive plot holes and blatantly obvious plot devices. And then resort to changing literal theory, saying it's all subjective because they have no other means to defend it. Just accept it guys, ME2 is a fun game, but terribly written.

Just because in your (strange) mind it's the best writing ever doesn't make it so. Like i said before, there's millions of people out there who think Justin Bieber is the 21st century Elvis Presley. But you know just as well as me that Justin Bieber is a ***** musician.

Your starting to think your opinion is law, in a way your jst like smudboy.

[Nashiktal]

bduff4545 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Funny really how Squee and the rest can't defend massive plot holes and blatantly obvious plot devices. And then resort to changing literal theory, saying it's all subjective because they have no other means to defend it. Just accept it guys, ME2 is a fun game, but terribly written.

Just because in your (strange) mind it's the best writing ever doesn't make it so. Like i said before, there's millions of people out there who think Justin Bieber is the 21st century Elvis Presley. But you know just as well as me that Justin Bieber is a ***** musician.

Your starting to think your opinion is law, in a way your jst like smudboy.

When you start taking shots like that, you end the argument and begin the flaming that closes threads. If I remember correctly, part of the reason smudboy was so abrasive was becasue people egged him into it.

Come to think of it, that happens with several forum pariahs. 

Edit: Yes I know its not the case this time, we just don't need to egg on flamewar. 

Modifié par Nashiktal, 29 août 2011 - 03:28 .

[ianmcdonald]

Instead of listening to some pretentious dork talk go into nauseating detail about why he doesn't like a video game, I'm going to go punch myself in the face.

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Funny really how Squee and the rest can't defend massive plot holes and blatantly obvious plot devices. And then resort to changing literal theory, saying it's all subjective because they have no other means to defend it. Just accept it guys, ME2 is a fun game, but terribly written.

Just because in your (strange) mind it's the best writing ever doesn't make it so. Like i said before, there's millions of people out there who think Justin Bieber is the 21st century Elvis Presley. But you know just as well as me that Justin Bieber is a ***** musician.

Your starting to think your opinion is law, in a way your jst like smudboy.

When you start taking shots like that, you end the argument and begin the flaming that closes threads. If I remember correctly, part of the reason smudboy was so abrasive was becasue people egged him into it.

Come to think of it, that happens with several forum pariahs. 

Edit: Yes I know its not the case this time, we just don't need to egg on flamewar. 

My be you should take in the fact that they never reconise obvious details to the plot in his analysis, like the reapers want Shepard, and the reason why TIM brought back Shepard is because TIM wants to ensure Humanity is incharge of the anti-reaper fleet.

[bduff4545]

Nashiktal wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Funny really how Squee and the rest can't defend massive plot holes and blatantly obvious plot devices. And then resort to changing literal theory, saying it's all subjective because they have no other means to defend it. Just accept it guys, ME2 is a fun game, but terribly written.

Just because in your (strange) mind it's the best writing ever doesn't make it so. Like i said before, there's millions of people out there who think Justin Bieber is the 21st century Elvis Presley. But you know just as well as me that Justin Bieber is a ***** musician.

Your starting to think your opinion is law, in a way your jst like smudboy.

When you start taking shots like that, you end the argument and begin the flaming that closes threads. If I remember correctly, part of the reason smudboy was so abrasive was becasue people egged him into it.

Come to think of it, that happens with several forum pariahs. 

Edit: Yes I know its not the case this time, we just don't need to egg on flamewar. 

I'm sorry, but he's starting to think his opinion is higher than everyone's at the moment saying that ME2's plot is one of the worst for a sequel is a fact.

[Vyse_Fina]

Good Lord, guys. I though the Smudboy videos have been discussed to death already (which is the reason why I am not sure if the OP was a clever troll or not). Why are we arguing over this AGAIN?

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 29 août 2011 - 05:39 .

[littlezack]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

Good Lord, guys. I though the Smudboy videos have been discussed to death already (which is the reason why I am not sure if the OP was a clever troll or not). Why are we arguing over this AGAIN?

Because SQUIRREL!

[Guldhun2]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Right, don't say it was a trap because that would invalidate my argument. They have an interest in Shepard. that was made very clear. They lured him onto the ship in order to "trap him". They did not "give" anything to Shepard. Shepard's AI stripped the data from them.

Besides, how is this a plot hole? You don't know anything about the collectors, so it does not go against any established lore, or count as behavior not constant with the collectors. You have no idea how they would normally behave. At best you could argue the trap was not the best idea... but a failed plan does not come close to being a plot hole.

What is you are so found of saying? Oh yes... Your argument is flawed, please try again.

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 29 août 2011 - 05:51 .

[bduff4545]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

Good Lord, guys. I though the Smudboy videos have been discussed to death already (which is the reason why I am not sure if the OP was a clever troll or not). Why are we arguing over this AGAIN?

I wasn't here when smudboy was posting everything here, and I didn't even know that smudboy was once a member on these forums before.

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

It could also be because they didn't know Shepard had an AI on his side.

Strange character behavior is not a plot hole when we know little to nothing about the character.

[SpiffySquee]

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole

You assume that the collectors let him take the data. You have no evidence that they had any idea he had the ability to take any data. They lured him in, yes, but they could have trusted he would not be able to hack their fire walls. Was it dumb to underestimate shepard? Probably, but that does not make it a plot hole, unless you want to suggest any time anyone underestimates shepard it is a plot hole.

Secondly, strange behavior does constitute a plot hole. It has to be unexplained behavior that completely goes against that characters established personality. Not only was the behavior explained (they were trying to capture him in a trap) but you have no idea what the established personality of the collectors are. So, how can you claim this trap is unusual behavior for someone you don't even know. The fact that you think it was dumb does not make it a plot hole.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 29 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Guldhun2 wrote...

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors unintentionally let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

Fixed. Also, in that same video EDI clearly says "this was a trap." Not a well planned out trap, but clearly the Collectors underestimated Shepard.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sheps ressurection was pure stupid and baaly done.
The collector trap was pure stupid and badly done
The IFF trap was pure stupid nd badly done
The collector base was pure stupid and badly done.

Hence, plot holes, stupid and bad writing combined.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors unintentionally let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

Fixed. Also, in that same video EDI clearly says "this was a trap." Not a well planned out trap, but clearly the Collectors underestimated Shepard.

Doesn't matter that  they underestiamted, they still proven to exceptioanlly incompetent and they took redicooous risks. A CHILD could have pulled off a better trap.

there was never a need to let Shpe progress that far before springing a trap. Why didn'tt hey blockade his shuttle? Why didn't they send more collectos after him (they got a full damn ship).
Exceptional incompetnce IS bad writing. Handing hte idiot ball to pople sjut so you cna have the story move o, because you're too incompetent to have the story move in a credible manner IS bad writing.

[Legbiter]

Guy needs a hobby.

[Someone With Mass]

Their trap was undermined because of EDI, which they didn't know of. Unknown factors do not make them incompetent. Incompetent would be if they damaged their own ship in the process of the trap and let Shepard flee without a fight.

[Legbiter]

ianmcdonald wrote...

Instead of listening to some pretentious dork go into nauseating detail about why he doesn't like a video game, I'm going to go punch myself in the face.

This.

[pfhorlorn]

Legbiter wrote...

Guy needs a hobby.

What's wrong with critiquing games to an absurd depth? That sounds like a hobby to me. I'm not being sarcastic, either.

Then again, I don't take this as seriously as everyone else does. It's entertainment, not law.

[Nashiktal]

koopaonfire wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

Guy needs a hobby.

What's wrong with critiquing games to an absurd depth? That sounds like a hobby to me. I'm not being sarcastic, either.

Then again, I don't take this as seriously as everyone else does. It's entertainment, not law.

Agreed.

Also on an unrelated note, Korra is awesome.