6494 réponses à ce sujet

[SpiffySquee]

Sheps ressurection was pure stupid and baaly done.
The collector trap was pure stupid and badly done
The IFF trap was pure stupid nd badly done
The collector base was pure stupid and badly done.

Hence, plot holes, stupid and bad writing combined.

even by loose definitions the fact that you think something was stupid does not make it a plot hole. It has to go against something previously established in the narrative, none of those did that. Or it could be someone doing something that is completely contrary to their nature for no reason. None of those examples do that either.

If you want to call it bad writing, go ahead' but that does not make it a plot hole.

[sp0ck 06]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sheps ressurection was pure stupid and baaly done.
The collector trap was pure stupid and badly done
The IFF trap was pure stupid nd badly done
The collector base was pure stupid and badly done.

Hence, plot holes, stupid and bad writing combined.

This post was pure stupid and BAALY done.

Hence, terrible spelling and nothing even remotely resembling a point or argument.

Also:

The collector base was spectacular.  Even those who rag on ME2 usually concede that.

This entire thread is worthless.  Smudboy is a punk...who spends that kind of time and energy devoting themselves to ripping plot hole in a video game, lol.  So you might convince a few forum goers you're some kind of internet god?  What a loser, I mean seriously.  We're all somewhat nerdish to even be here in the first place but that...good god.

[Guldhun2]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Sheps ressurection was pure stupid and baaly done.
The collector trap was pure stupid and badly done
The IFF trap was pure stupid nd badly done
The collector base was pure stupid and badly done.

Hence, plot holes, stupid and bad writing combined.

even by loose definitions the fact that you think something was stupid does not make it a plot hole. It has to go against something previously established in the narrative, none of those did that. Or it could be someone doing something that is completely contrary to their nature for no reason. None of those examples do that either.

If you want to call it bad writing, go ahead' but that does not make it a plot hole.

http://www.reference...rowse/Plot hole

[SpiffySquee]

Thanks for proving my point.

Plot hole
A plot hole  is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot.
While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome.

that is straight from the link you gave. Explain how the above list meets this criteria in any way.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 29 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors unintentionally let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

Fixed. Also, in that same video EDI clearly says "this was a trap." Not a well planned out trap, but clearly the Collectors underestimated Shepard.

Doesn't matter that  they underestiamted, they still proven to exceptioanlly incompetent and they took redicooous risks. A CHILD could have pulled off a better trap.

there was never a need to let Shpe progress that far before springing a trap. Why didn'tt hey blockade his shuttle? Why didn't they send more collectos after him (they got a full damn ship).
Exceptional incompetnce IS bad writing. Handing hte idiot ball to pople sjut so you cna have the story move o, because you're too incompetent to have the story move in a credible manner IS bad writing.

A child could have accounted for a Reaper-based AI?

Shepard was trapped on the platforms; if EDI wasn't there he would have remained stuck there. Even if he did get down somehow, he would have been locked in the Praetorian room. So they did blockade him. This is not an example of bad writing. The Collectors lured Shepard in knowing he would want more data on the Collectors, and then sprung a trap that would have been foolproof had Shepard not had an AI handy.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Right, don't say it was a trap because that would invalidate my argument. They have an interest in Shepard. that was made very clear. They lured him onto the ship in order to "trap him". They did not "give" anything to Shepard. Shepard's AI stripped the data from them.

Besides, how is this a plot hole? You don't know anything about the collectors, so it does not go against any established lore, or count as behavior not constant with the collectors. You have no idea how they would normally behave. At best you could argue the trap was not the best idea... but a failed plan does not come close to being a plot hole.

What is you are so found of saying? Oh yes... Your argument is flawed, please try again.

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

So we tell you why and you ignore and go on with your own Ideals any way. You sure your not Smudboy?
The thing is ..
1.It's a trap.
2. It a trap that uses the data carried over to hold a virus to take the ship out.
3. They took a copy of all the ships data so it not a thing of picking and choosing. The collector would not format their entire ship system.
4. They want to disalbe Shepards ship ...using virus to catch Shepard...Which if your paying attension, you would no is their constant normal actions.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

First of all, it's not the collectors your fighting it's Harbinger, you know, the reaper controling the collectors. And second, the collectors unintentionally let shepard take data. Why even let him near that command console? They basically set a path directly to a place you can get data from. Strange character behaviour is also a plot hole.



At 15:30.

Fixed. Also, in that same video EDI clearly says "this was a trap." Not a well planned out trap, but clearly the Collectors underestimated Shepard.

Doesn't matter that  they underestiamted, they still proven to exceptioanlly incompetent and they took redicooous risks. A CHILD could have pulled off a better trap.

there was never a need to let Shpe progress that far before springing a trap. Why didn'tt hey blockade his shuttle? Why didn't they send more collectos after him (they got a full damn ship).
Exceptional incompetnce IS bad writing. Handing hte idiot ball to pople sjut so you cna have the story move o, because you're too incompetent to have the story move in a credible manner IS bad writing.

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

[FataliTensei]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

A Youtube commentator that made it his mission to nitpick every SINGLE bloody flaw in a Bioware story. You should get Mac Walters to check him out. He makes several valid points concerning plotholes in ME2 but he generally ends up coming across as criticizing just for the sake of nitpicking. 

I haven't actually watched them, mostly because of the reactions that most people seem to have to it... so I can guess what the content is probably like...

Now if it was like RedLetterMedia's Star Wars stuff... I'd probably totally watch it. :happy:

'Cuz that **** is hillarious.

Basing whether or not to watch something off of fanboy reactions is pretty shallow.

Smudboy makes some good points on some plot flaws in ME2, he does nit-pick some smaller details that don't really matter in the long run, but relatively large inconsistancies that need to be pointed out are also in his vids, bioware fanboys just don't like having their veiwpoints challeneged.

Saying all criticism of Smudboy's videos is just fanboyism can be seen as pretty shallow too though...

I'm not talking about all the reactions, just the sterotypoical negative ones that didn't even listen to any of the points made. I guess I'll have to be more specific next time <_<

[Guldhun2]

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.


You guys seem to forget it was Shepard who stopped and destroyed sovereign.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 29 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[111987]

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.

But the point still stands; without EDI, the trap would have been entirely successful. There's no way the Collector's could know about EDI, and thus plan around her. This is not a plot hole, or a case of bad writing.

[Guldhun2]

111987 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.

But the point still stands; without EDI, the trap would have been entirely successful. There's no way the Collector's could know about EDI, and thus plan around her. This is not a plot hole, or a case of bad writing.

And why wouldn't they have know that they might have had an AI? There's Geth all over the place, made by Quarians. The alliance has/had AIs. There's even a semi AI on the citadel trying to destroy you in ME1.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.

That the thing. Nothing Shepard has done ever shown to out manuver a reaper level hacking. If EDI was not there, they would of been trapped. Remember, it was pretty fool harty for them to go on the collector ship in the first place. The collector had a lack of infomation that lost them the catch, and later on they corrected it and used the same trick to Shut down the normady. Fact remain, If they newabout EDI then, Shepard would of been trapped. Nothing you stated so far makes it a plot whole at all.

[111987]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.

But the point still stands; without EDI, the trap would have been entirely successful. There's no way the Collector's could know about EDI, and thus plan around her. This is not a plot hole, or a case of bad writing.

And why wouldn't they have know that they might have had an AI? There's Geth all over the place, made by Quarians. The alliance has/had AIs. There's even a semi AI on the citadel trying to destroy you in ME1.

AI are banned in Council space. The Geth are AI's, but the Collectors weren't trying to capture the Geth; they were trying to capture Shepard. The Quarians do not have AI either; their last AI drove them from their homeworld and nearly caused them to become extinct. The Alliance does not have AI; they were researching AI in the events of Mass Effect: Revelation but that research was shut down. AI are not common.

EDI was the first ship-based AI in the history of Mass Effect. There is no way they would have known about EDI.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Guldhun2 wrote...


And why wouldn't they have know that they might have had an AI? There's Geth all over the place, made by Quarians. The alliance has/had AIs. There's even a semi AI on the citadel trying to destroy you in ME1.

...guh...hee haw....


Anyway reaper-level AI,they have been around the MW a long time,they aren't blind to the fact that A.I. is mostly illegal,they simply couldn't have planned on encountering an A.I. as sophisticated as a reaper A.I..

[dreman9999]

dreman9999 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Rediculuse risk? They have the most advance tech in the galxey. No other computer would be able to stop that trap. No other race has anything like EDI but the Geth, and you expect them to take account the improblible when making a trap.
When some one tries to trap rabbits, do they have to reunforce their traps in case they have super strenght even though rabbits never show that they even have it?

When the rabbits all grouped together under command of a shepard rabbit, and then proceed to kill one of the trappers. Then yes i as a trapper would be careful.

That the thing. Nothing Shepard has done ever shown to out manuver a reaper level hacking. If EDI was not there, they would of been trapped. Remember, it was pretty fool harty for them to go on the collector ship in the first place. The collector had a lack of infomation that lost them the catch, and later on they corrected it and used the same trick to Shut down the normady. Fact remain, If they newabout EDI then, Shepard would of been trapped. Nothing you stated so far makes it a plot whole at all.

Sure, with the heated geth war, We humans just had to just ride over to the Geth, the ones we just kill and fear to hell and back, and traded their most advance computer secrets. Also, on top of that, with the anti-AI laws everyone just on top of the latest AI tech on hand.
I'm it not like no is afraid of a AI uprising or anything, it not like it never happened?

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 août 2011 - 07:54 .

[Guldhun2]

111987 wrote...

AI are banned in Council space. The Geth are AI's, but the Collectors weren't trying to capture the Geth; they were trying to capture Shepard. The Quarians do not have AI either; their last AI drove them from their homeworld and nearly caused them to become extinct. The Alliance does not have AI; they were researching AI in the events of Mass Effect: Revelation but that research was shut down. AI are not common.

EDI was the first ship-based AI in the history of Mass Effect. There is no way they would have known about EDI.

We are not in council space. And i present you with...http://masseffect.wi..._Insights,_Ltd.






I can hear you going "Oh crap" from my chair.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 29 août 2011 - 07:57 .

[111987]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

AI are banned in Council space. The Geth are AI's, but the Collectors weren't trying to capture the Geth; they were trying to capture Shepard. The Quarians do not have AI either; their last AI drove them from their homeworld and nearly caused them to become extinct. The Alliance does not have AI; they were researching AI in the events of Mass Effect: Revelation but that research was shut down. AI are not common.

EDI was the first ship-based AI in the history of Mass Effect. There is no way they would have known about EDI.

We are not in council space. And i present you with...http://masseffect.wi..._Insights,_Ltd.

Yes, there are 4 companies that are officially sanctioned by the Citadel Council to study AI. However, none of these companies are affiliated with Shepard.

And yes, we are not in Council Space. But it's not like there are rampant AI's all over the Terminus system. It's galactically acceped that AI are dangerous; the whole Geth thing has turned organics off to it.

Like I said, EDI is the first EVER ship-based AI. Assuming that the Collectors would plan for that is silly. Besides, remember that EDI ias an AI based off of Reaper technology. There's simply no way the Collectors could know or prepare for that.

Let's say they did assume Shepard had an AI, and put up defenses to deal with it. But EDI isn't just a simple AI, it's a Reaper based AI, and she was still 'tasked to capacity'.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

AI are banned in Council space. The Geth are AI's, but the Collectors weren't trying to capture the Geth; they were trying to capture Shepard. The Quarians do not have AI either; their last AI drove them from their homeworld and nearly caused them to become extinct. The Alliance does not have AI; they were researching AI in the events of Mass Effect: Revelation but that research was shut down. AI are not common.

EDI was the first ship-based AI in the history of Mass Effect. There is no way they would have known about EDI.

We are not in council space. And i present you with...http://masseffect.wi..._Insights,_Ltd.

So what, the fear stops it. The quarian think it's a taboo. The salarian,turians, Asari,Human, Drell, Hanar, elcor, and volis are in council space. And that leaves the Krogan....You think they have advance AI tech.
Also, you link me to a ME company that make VI's, vurtual inteligents, that has control AI reshearch. And Cerberus is not with the council. That was on the lunar base in ME1.
Small rogue group can make VI's but only major corperation have the money to make them, which Cerberus is backed by. All corperation get a good deal of funds from the Council so they never want to wake the AI route, they also fear geth ,too.

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 août 2011 - 08:05 .

[Iakus]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

The collector base was spectacular.  Even those who rag on ME2 usually concede that.

It was good.  If short.  The ending left a lot to be desired though.  Nothing more than an excuse for a boss fight.

This entire thread is worthless.  Smudboy is a punk...who spends that kind of time and energy devoting themselves to ripping plot hole in a video game, lol.  So you might convince a few forum goers you're some kind of internet god?  What a loser, I mean seriously.  We're all somewhat nerdish to even be here in the first place but that...good god.

Ah the eternal question:

Who's the bigger hater, the hater or the hater who hates the hater? 

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

The collector base was spectacular.  Even those who rag on ME2 usually concede that.

It was good.  If short.  The ending left a lot to be desired though.  Nothing more than an excuse for a boss fight.

This entire thread is worthless.  Smudboy is a punk...who spends that kind of time and energy devoting themselves to ripping plot hole in a video game, lol.  So you might convince a few forum goers you're some kind of internet god?  What a loser, I mean seriously.  We're all somewhat nerdish to even be here in the first place but that...good god.

Ah the eternal question:

Who's the bigger hater, the hater or the hater who hates the hater? 

You mean you weren't on the edge of your seat, hoping your crew live? Holding your breath as Jack/Samara or who hever was holding it up, the first time you played it?

[Darth Death]

I've read some of Smudboy's comments & I can honestly say he's delusional. I especially like when he disregards ME as a trilogy (claiming to be "irrelevant") & calls others "ME3 apologist" for properly indicating the obvious. His videos are insignificant since the ME3 isn't out yet. So, until it comes, he can't draw any "intelligent" argument regarding plot-holes.

[Illiandri]

How is Shepard's resurection a plot hole? The IFF trap? The Collector Trap? How are these plot holes? Did someone miss the fact that TIM alway came out going " I knew it was a trap but...." . That TIM had a fleet of ships with IFF's? That the entirety of ME2 was to get the Collector Base for Cerberus?

The reason I disagree with some posters is that smudboy wishes the entire story spoonfed to him. God I miss the days of good games that let just enough info into the game and let you fill the rest with your imagination. That required you to experience every major ending, good or bad, as to get the bigger picture. Has everybody experienced or at least seen on youtube the 4 major ending variations of ME2?

Some of yours remind me of some of my old D&D sessions where we had this guy continuously asking the DM "what is the backstory of this event?" or "How was the ring created?" or something else. In the end we chucked out of the group for being so boring. Smudboy is that guy. The guy that bogged down our quest because he wouldn't let his imagination to work in A RPG, WHERE IMAGINATION IS THE MAIN BUILDING BLOCK OF ANY RPG FROM DND TO FALLOUT!!!!

A good RPG is like religion. You kind of skip over the contradictory messages and focus on the good parts like "Be cool onto each other" or "Forgive" or "Suffer not the witch to live". It all needs a bit of faith.

Modifié par Illiandri, 29 août 2011 - 08:59 .

[Grumpy young man]

Why would anyone care so much about some xy person who makes videos on youtube to dedicate him 30 pages long thread is beyond me.

[Illiandri]

Because it is fun watching getting butthurt over their lack of imagination or ignoring the fact that ME is a soft science fiction trilogy?

[MDT1]

Darth Death wrote...

I've read some of Smudboy's comments & I can honestly say he's delusional. I especially like when he disregards ME as a trilogy (claiming to be "irrelevant") & calls others "ME3 apologist" for properly indicating the obvious. His videos are insignificant since the ME3 isn't out yet. So, until it comes, he can't draw any "intelligent" argument regarding plot-holes.

Oh, Smudboy can find plotholes everywhere.

I bet if you give him a history book he'll find one on every page with his standard argumentation:
"As I know the outcoming I would have done it otherwise, so it's a plothole!"

Modifié par MDT1, 29 août 2011 - 09:08 .