6494 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ah ship AIs... 2201 A Space Idiocy where we get to turn off a malfunctioning AI after it kills the crew one person at a time.

[dreman9999]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I disagree,therefore; plot hole.

That look up what a plot whole is. Just because you disagree doesn't stop from not being aplot whole.
As stated before, It's a trilogy, not everything will be stated all at once. We can only call it a plot whole if they never cover it in ME3.

Was playing the part of Fixers0.

What?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I disagree,therefore; plot hole.

That look up what a plot whole is. Just because you disagree doesn't stop from not being aplot whole.
As stated before, It's a trilogy, not everything will be stated all at once. We can only call it a plot whole if they never cover it in ME3.

Was playing the part of Fixers0.

What?

IF that wasn't clear enough I don't think I can explain it any simpler...

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again.....
The real point is that the story is not done yet. Just because they have explaine how Shepard is bought back doen't mean it's a plot whole, they just didn't explain it yet. Complaining about this is like someone complaining that the reapers are bad villians because their motive have not been explained yet. It'sa trilogy and normal in Trilogies they don't tell all the info at once to draw people into the next part of the story.
As for the start of the suicide mission, that not a plot whole ether, just a rush job but ME1 also has this too with Tali randomly popping in on the citidel at the right moment with the geth data need to prove Saren went rogue.

If you wan't to call it a plot hole then go ahead,

It doesn't make the quality of the narative any better.

The quality of the narrative is fine. The detail that Smugboy always forget is character modivation. If looked into that, everthing adds up(Out side Jacob's loyaly mission of course.)It's clear he never understands the characters and just state what he would do if he where them and never tries to understand what they are trying to do and what they know and don't know. Most of your plot wholes are easily explained if you just look at ME1 and ME2 story, lore and characters.

[dreman9999]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I disagree,therefore; plot hole.

That look up what a plot whole is. Just because you disagree doesn't stop from not being aplot whole.
As stated before, It's a trilogy, not everything will be stated all at once. We can only call it a plot whole if they never cover it in ME3.

Was playing the part of Fixers0.

What?

IF that wasn't clear enough I don't think I can explain it any simpler...

What or who is Fixer0?

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I disagree,therefore; plot hole.

That look up what a plot whole is. Just because you disagree doesn't stop from not being aplot whole.
As stated before, It's a trilogy, not everything will be stated all at once. We can only call it a plot whole if they never cover it in ME3.

Was playing the part of Fixers0.

What?

Humanoid_Typhoon was being sarcastic

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I disagree,therefore; plot hole.

That look up what a plot whole is. Just because you disagree doesn't stop from not being aplot whole.
As stated before, It's a trilogy, not everything will be stated all at once. We can only call it a plot whole if they never cover it in ME3.

Was playing the part of Fixers0.

What?

Humanoid_Typhoon was being sarcastic

Oh!... Never mind.

[Fixers0]

dreman9999 wrote...


The quality of the narrative is fine. The detail that Smugboy always forget is character modivation. If looked into that, everthing adds up(Out side Jacob's loyaly mission of course.)It's clear he never understands the characters and just state what he would do if he where them and never tries to understand what they are trying to do and what they know and don't know. Most of your plot wholes are easily explained if you just look at ME1 and ME2 story, lore and characters.

What  the Shi*t are you trying to tell me here?

Character motivation? Understanding characters?  what does anything has to with Smudboy's analysis? or  how does that fix a brokern narative?

Just watch it allready.

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Fixers0, 30 août 2011 - 07:59 .

[Guldhun2]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


The quality of the narrative is fine. The detail that Smugboy always forget is character modivation. If looked into that, everthing adds up(Out side Jacob's loyaly mission of course.)It's clear he never understands the characters and just state what he would do if he where them and never tries to understand what they are trying to do and what they know and don't know. Most of your plot wholes are easily explained if you just look at ME1 and ME2 story, lore and characters.

What  the Shi*t are you trying to tell me here?

Character motivation? Understanding characters?  what does anything has to with Smudboy's analysis? or  how does that fix a broker narative?

He writes hole as WHOLE. What do you expect?

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...
The quality of the narrative is fine. The detail that Smugboy always forget is character modivation. If looked into that, everthing adds up(Out side Jacob's loyaly mission of course.)It's clear he never understands the characters and just state what he would do if he where them and never tries to understand what they are trying to do and what they know and don't know. Most of your plot wholes are easily explained if you just look at ME1 and ME2 story, lore and characters.

They do? I know ME1 and 2 lore and characters and it makes no sense to me. Holes still remain holes. Bad writing still remains bad writing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SpiffySquee wrote...

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot

I think a lot of people don't understand what this really says. A lot of people state that the resurrection of shep was a plot hole because they did not explain how the brain was intact. They don't have to because the story established that the Lazarus project brought him back from his current state. Meaning if his brain was goo, it could still restore it. I can hear you saying, "but that is impossible!"

Does not matter, because a plot hole must break the logic of the story, not the real world. The story establishes that it is possible in that universe. Therefore, the resurrection does not break the logic set forth by the story. You can call it bad writing, but you can not call it a plot hole.

Same goes for going through the relay before sending a probe or whatever. It would have to break the logic set by the story or go against Shep's character. Since the first game Shep has always gone first. He is always of the first on the ground. He has never sent a probe or recon drone first. He always charged head first. So why is suddenly a plot hole that he did what he has always done? You may have done it differently, but that does not make it a plot hole.

Sheps ressurection is not a plot hole, just very bad writing.


The probes and Omega 4 relay are a plot hole tough. Unless you argue that everyone ME univers is a mroon (including Shep). I don't recall that "being stupid" was part of sheppards character.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...
The real point is that the story is not done yet. Just because they have explaine how Shepard is bought back doen't mean it's a plot whole, they just didn't explain it yet. Complaining about this is like someone complaining that the reapers are bad villians because their motive have not been explained yet. It'sa trilogy and normal in Trilogies they don't tell all the info at once to draw people into the next part of the story.

No, the "story is not done yet" is not an valid excuse, sorry. Things should be explained when they happen, not 10 years later.
ME2 was pretty much self-contained.

[111987]

Sending a probe through the Omega 4 Relay isn't all that logical. It would get shot down anyways, so the point of it is...?

Like I believe Spiffy said, it's smarter to install the IFF on a warship with a super advanced AI monitoring things, right?

[Fixers0]

People should just slowly relax watch Smudboy's videos, sit back and just watch them allready, if you understand him, just pause and play again, just liten to what he saying, don't rush through them, but actually hear his points and arguments.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The real point is that the story is not done yet. Just because they have explaine how Shepard is bought back doen't mean it's a plot whole, they just didn't explain it yet. Complaining about this is like someone complaining that the reapers are bad villians because their motive have not been explained yet. It'sa trilogy and normal in Trilogies they don't tell all the info at once to draw people into the next part of the story.

No, the "story is not done yet" is not an valid excuse, sorry. Things should be explained when they happen, not 10 years later.
ME2 was pretty much self-contained.

The story is not yet done excuse does work in some cases though. Like not fully explaining the Human-Reaper.

[nelly21]

It makes me giggle when non-writers call successful writers bad writers.

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


The quality of the narrative is fine. The detail that Smugboy always forget is character modivation. If looked into that, everthing adds up(Out side Jacob's loyaly mission of course.)It's clear he never understands the characters and just state what he would do if he where them and never tries to understand what they are trying to do and what they know and don't know. Most of your plot wholes are easily explained if you just look at ME1 and ME2 story, lore and characters.

What  the Shi*t are you trying to tell me here?

Character motivation? Understanding characters?  what does anything has to with Smudboy's analysis? or  how does that fix a brokern narative?

Just watch it allready.

www.youtube.com/watch

I did and my comment is main tawards is complate about why TIM bothered to bring back Shepard and his question of importance of Shepard in the plot.And the fact it never accure to him that the reapers WANT SHEPARD!
Also, his "ammo powers gun hacking " comment...The man forgot we can hack weapons since ME1.

[littlezack]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The real point is that the story is not done yet. Just because they have explaine how Shepard is bought back doen't mean it's a plot whole, they just didn't explain it yet. Complaining about this is like someone complaining that the reapers are bad villians because their motive have not been explained yet. It'sa trilogy and normal in Trilogies they don't tell all the info at once to draw people into the next part of the story.

No, the "story is not done yet" is not an valid excuse, sorry. Things should be explained when they happen, not 10 years later.

So the minute we met Sovereign, we should've known 100% about the Reapers and their true plans?

[Fixers0]

111987 wrote...

Sending a probe through the Omega 4 Relay isn't all that logical. It would get shot down anyways, so the point of it is...?

You obviously haven't played Lair of the Shadow broker.

111987 wrote...
Like I believe Spiffy said, it's smarter to install the IFF on a warship with a super advanced AI monitoring things, right?

That's just plain suicide, we don't what kind of threats we are going to face an most certainly we don't know if we made the right preparation.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]111987 wrote...
Not a great trap at all. Where were all the collectors? Why wasn't the path back bloced by en entire devision or a blockade? Why wasn't the shuttle blown up? Why allow Shep to get in that deep (and to the central terminal) in the firt place?

Handing a character the idiot ball doesn't work in a serious story. If it's a parody or comedy, sure. But not in a serious story.
[/quote]

Well they couldn't have hid the entire Collector Ship population in that room; there was no cover or place to hide except for those pods, and Shepard would have noticed if there were thousands of Collectors hiding in those pods and not have entered the room. Plus, a ship that big most likely requires a lot of Collectors to run it. They were also dealing with an unexpected AI attack.

The path was blocked by a large amount of Collectors and a Praetorian. I'm sure more Collectors were on their way, but it is a big ship.The shuttle wasn't blown up because it didn't need to be blown up; they thought they had Shepard trapped. Why destroy something if you can salvage it? Also, there weren't any Collectors in that area to blow up the shuttle so it's a moot point.

The terminal EDI hacked was not the central command terminal. That would be wherever the pilot is, and we were definitely not in the cockpit of the Collector Ship. Why not trap Shepard earlier? Once again, trapping him a hundred or more feet in the air with scarcely any cover is more effective than trapping him in a single room.
[/quote]

Why were the collectors so disperesed? Why does it take them forever to get to the fight - even moreso if they knew where sheppard would be??

Why NOT blockade the shuttle? No Collectors there? Bollocks. there were other door and while shep was at the terminal, you could have moved an entire ARMY. And why would you even want to salvage that useless shuttle?

And how the f**** do you know it wasn't hte main terminal? Who the hell told you where the terminals on the collector ship are?

And no, traping him on platfrom with BUILT-IN COVER is not billiant. Attacking him in waves of 3-4 is NOT brilliant.
The collectors and Harbie have demonstrated the planing brilliance of a rock.

[111987]

Fixers0 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Sending a probe through the Omega 4 Relay isn't all that logical. It would get shot down anyways, so the point of it is...?

You obviously haven't played Lair of the Shadow broker.

111987 wrote...
Like I believe Spiffy said, it's smarter to install the IFF on a warship with a super advanced AI monitoring things, right?

That's just plain suicide, we don't what kind of threats we are going to face an most certainly we don't know if we made the right preparation.

The probes the Shadow Broker sent were destroyed. Besides, the Shadow Broker was allied with the Collectors. How is that relevant anyways? It doesn't help Shepard to send a probe through just so it can be destroyed...

And it's called a 'suicide mission' from the start. Besides that doesn't address the point I made. However, based off the fact that there are no habitable planets in the galactic core, the only possible explanation was that the Collectors were located in a space station. Which means finite numbers of Collectors, which makes victory a possibility. If they had found out the Collectors had an entire planet, they probably would have altered the plan.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The real point is that the story is not done yet. Just because they have explaine how Shepard is bought back doen't mean it's a plot whole, they just didn't explain it yet. Complaining about this is like someone complaining that the reapers are bad villians because their motive have not been explained yet. It'sa trilogy and normal in Trilogies they don't tell all the info at once to draw people into the next part of the story.

No, the "story is not done yet" is not an valid excuse, sorry. Things should be explained when they happen, not 10 years later.
ME2 was pretty much self-contained.

Yes it is. How would we know the stories direction or point if we don't no the full story. How do we know it;s a plot whole if everything is not explained yet and the story line for it is not closed. The laseruse story line is not done, just put to the side. It would be saying ME story is bad because the reaper never told anyone their motivations in the first and second part of the game. It's how trilogies work, the write gives you part of the info to draw you in and gives you bits and piese along the way till the story isdone, that's how episodic stories work as well.

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Sending a probe through the Omega 4 Relay isn't all that logical. It would get shot down anyways, so the point of it is...?

Like I believe Spiffy said, it's smarter to install the IFF on a warship with a super advanced AI monitoring things, right?

How do you know if it would be shot down? You don't know what's on the other side!

And it doen'ts matter if it's shot down - it's a probe. Probes are expendable. It's purpose is to scout and transmit info to you.

So no. It's not smart to risk loosing your biggest investments all in one go, by taking COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY risks.

[Xeranx]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Let me give you a really good example of a plot hole. Thermal clips on Jacobs loyalty mission. They were not invented until 8 years after their ship had been stranded. The fact that the mission has them is impossible according to the logic of previous story.

Thermal Chips as a whole are a retcon, and a poorly worded one at that but alas we are making progress. I even agree this was something we can overlook due to its irrelevance to the plot.

You should look up the term retcon. Thermal clips are a new tech. The codex explains that they were developed and why. It is only a retcon if they just suddenly appeared with no explanation, or the game pretend it was always like that.

The explanation of the thermal clips and how they came to be is a retcon of what we understood of the Geth.  In the first game the Geth never used the mechanic that's in ME2.  If they had we would have seen some clue to their use of thermal clips then.  As it exists, all weapoons relied on the overheating mechanic up until Shepard's death.  Nothing hinted at the Geth deciding to drop the overheating tech for a more flawed system as the thermal clip mechanic.  

You're limited in the number of shots you can take with any weapon using the mechanic if you run out of thermal clips.  Also in light of that, it's still stated that we still have a single block that's fed into our weapons and lasts a long time.  Thermal clips along with that single metal block result in an impotent weapon if thermal clips are nowhere to be found.  It isn't logical for the Geth to adopt that kind of tech and forgo one that's better.  They would advance it so that weapons overheat very little if at all.  The thermal clips are an adaptation of the overheating mechanic so instead of waiting for a few seconds for your weapon to cool down, the few seconds we'd wait is applied to the amount of time it would take to eject a clip.  Yes it's much faster than the cooldown would be, but it's a poor one still because of the limitiation that exists.

[111987]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]111987 wrote...
Not a great trap at all. Where were all the collectors? Why wasn't the path back bloced by en entire devision or a blockade? Why wasn't the shuttle blown up? Why allow Shep to get in that deep (and to the central terminal) in the firt place?

Handing a character the idiot ball doesn't work in a serious story. If it's a parody or comedy, sure. But not in a serious story.
[/quote]

Well they couldn't have hid the entire Collector Ship population in that room; there was no cover or place to hide except for those pods, and Shepard would have noticed if there were thousands of Collectors hiding in those pods and not have entered the room. Plus, a ship that big most likely requires a lot of Collectors to run it. They were also dealing with an unexpected AI attack.

The path was blocked by a large amount of Collectors and a Praetorian. I'm sure more Collectors were on their way, but it is a big ship.The shuttle wasn't blown up because it didn't need to be blown up; they thought they had Shepard trapped. Why destroy something if you can salvage it? Also, there weren't any Collectors in that area to blow up the shuttle so it's a moot point.

The terminal EDI hacked was not the central command terminal. That would be wherever the pilot is, and we were definitely not in the cockpit of the Collector Ship. Why not trap Shepard earlier? Once again, trapping him a hundred or more feet in the air with scarcely any cover is more effective than trapping him in a single room.
[/quote]

Why were the collectors so disperesed? Why does it take them forever to get to the fight - even moreso if they knew where sheppard would be??

Why NOT blockade the shuttle? No Collectors there? Bollocks. there were other door and while shep was at the terminal, you could have moved an entire ARMY. And why would you even want to salvage that useless shuttle?

And how the f**** do you know it wasn't hte main terminal? Who the hell told you where the terminals on the collector ship are?

And no, traping him on platfrom with BUILT-IN COVER is not billiant. Attacking him in waves of 3-4 is NOT brilliant.
The collectors and Harbie have demonstrated the planing brilliance of a rock.
[/quote]

Why were the Collectors so dispersed? First of all, we don't even know how many Collectors were on the ship. Maybe the forces they sent at us were a significant portion of their troops.

They didn't blockade the shuttle, because once again, they did not feel they needed to. For a trap to work, it doesn't have to cover all possible scenarios. All that means is that the Collector trap wasn't perfect. Once again though, were it not for EDI, the trap wouldn't have needed to have been perfect to have worked.

We don't know if that was or wasn't the main terminal. I can't prove it wasn't, you can't prove it was. So it is a moot point.

As for your other points; it's GAMEPLAY. Having Shepard face 1000 Collectors without cover wouldn't be fun for the player, as it would be impossible. That defeats the whole purpose of the game. It's the same for ANY combat based game.