6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It looks like the Collector Ship and Collector Base are opperating with small crews and are largely automated. Even during their ground ops, they don't send in that many troops.

Because EDI WAS IN THE SYSTEM AND CUT THEM OFF.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against or for here. 

Thing is, we NEVER see that many collectors.

[Someone With Mass]

Gatt9 wrote...

Which unsurprisingly is pretty much a word-for-word ripoff of a Star Wars book.  Complete with a hidden research station in the middle of a collection of black holes.  Kessel sector IIRC,  which Han refers to in A New Hope.

Unsurprising because the plot of ME3 sounds identical to the plot of DAO,  the combat suddenly became a mirror image of GoW,  and now they're adding Halo's sword.

I liked the old Bioware better,  the writing was much better when it was original,  as was the design.

It shows that you have limited/no experience with either Gears of War or Halo, so I'd like if you came up with something new.

By the way. DAO's rallying of races to fight the great evil? It's been done before too.

Just because ME3 is doing it in a similar fashion (and how people couldn't have predicted this way back in ME1 at the conversation with Sovereign is beyond me) doesn't automatically make it bad.

It's more of a hipster attitude than anything.

[Balek-Vriege]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Which unsurprisingly is pretty much a word-for-word ripoff of a Star Wars book.  Complete with a hidden research station in the middle of a collection of black holes.  Kessel sector IIRC,  which Han refers to in A New Hope.

Unsurprising because the plot of ME3 sounds identical to the plot of DAO,  the combat suddenly became a mirror image of GoW,  and now they're adding Halo's sword.

I liked the old Bioware better,  the writing was much better when it was original,  as was the design.

It shows that you have limited/no experience with either Gears of War or Halo, so I'd like if you came up with something new.

By the way. DAO's rallying of races to fight the great evil? It's been done before too.

Just because ME3 is doing it in a similar fashion (and how people couldn't have predicted this way back in ME1 at the conversation with Sovereign is beyond me) doesn't automatically make it bad.

It's more of a hipster attitude than anything.

Someone used to tell me when I was young that there's only about a half-dozen basic plots for stories and they branch out from there.  Nothing is original, it's just how well you present your version.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 31 août 2011 - 12:17 .

[Ji99saw]

I'm sorry I tried to avoid this thread but I can't help it. First off it's a video game it's not a documentary or a play by play reenactment of some amazing epic that took place years ago. Second there are many things in the game that are not specifically explained and given the same amount of scrutiny and criticism any story would be discredited it for not telling everything. Third it's fiction meaning not real and I'm sorry if that crushes you science fanboy dreams. Personally I love it and can't wait until the third game.

[Anacronian Stryx]

asindre wrote...
Sheps ressurection is not a plot hole, just very bad writing.

This is a story :The king is dead and the queen now rules.

This is a story with plot : The king is dead By poison and the queen now rules.

Or another example.

Story : The rebels blows up the Death star.

Story with plot : The rebels blows up the Death star by launching proton torpedoes though a thermal exhaust port resulting in a chain reaction.

Shepard resurrection.

Story : Cerberus resurrects Shepard.

Story with plot : Ehh go fish.

Shepard's resurrection is very much a plot hole.

[Eckswhyzee]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

asindre wrote...
Sheps ressurection is not a plot hole, just very bad writing.

....
Shepard resurrection.

Story : Cerberus resurrects Shepard.

Story with plot : Cerberus resurrects Shepard, using cybernetics, tissue regeneration and several billion credits' worth of technology on a secret space station.

Shepard's resurrection is not a plot hole.

Does that help? I'm curious, what would it take for you to be satisfied that the resurrection is not a plot hole?

EDIT:Spelling.

Modifié par Eckswhyzee, 31 août 2011 - 02:01 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

asindre wrote...
Sheps ressurection is not a plot hole, just very bad writing.

....
Shepard resurrection.

Story : Cerberus resurrects Shepard.

Story with plot : Cerberus resurrects Shepard, using cybernetics, tissue regeneration and several billion credits' worth of technology on a secret space station.

Shepard's resurrection is not a plot hole.

Does that help? I'm curious, what would take for you to be satisfied that the resurrection is not a plot hole?

That's like somebody telling you they went to Singapore by teleporter, Wouldn't you ask "How"?

How does Cybernetics brings you back to life?
How does Tissue regeneration bring you back to life?
If money and a space Station is all it takes why isn't the galaxy overrun by resurrected people?

Do you know?

It's all in frame of reference - in my first example it's easy since everybody knows what poison is.
The second example is a bit harder since nobody have any idea what the Death star, proton torpedoes relates to the thermal exhaust port, This is why the movie spends a great portion of time explaining what these things are, Hell we even see a animation of the whole deal just to hammer the point home.

It's all in the pursuit of suspension of disbelief - if you fail at that you have a plot hole.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 31 août 2011 - 01:59 .

[Eckswhyzee]

OK I think I get what you're saying.

For me, because we obviously can't resurrect anyone right now, the writers can't really go too in-depth with this. You might find that unsatisying, that's perfectly fine. Personally I just take it along with the whole mass effect fields thing as an acceptable break from reality. As for why no-one else is resurrected, I write it off as no-one else is worth billions of credits and two years of top scientists working on nothing else. Or reaper tech magic .

[Gatt9]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Which unsurprisingly is pretty much a word-for-word ripoff of a Star Wars book.  Complete with a hidden research station in the middle of a collection of black holes.  Kessel sector IIRC,  which Han refers to in A New Hope.

Unsurprising because the plot of ME3 sounds identical to the plot of DAO,  the combat suddenly became a mirror image of GoW,  and now they're adding Halo's sword.

I liked the old Bioware better,  the writing was much better when it was original,  as was the design.

It shows that you have limited/no experience with either Gears of War or Halo, so I'd like if you came up with something new.

By the way. DAO's rallying of races to fight the great evil? It's been done before too.

Just because ME3 is doing it in a similar fashion (and how people couldn't have predicted this way back in ME1 at the conversation with Sovereign is beyond me) doesn't automatically make it bad.

It's more of a hipster attitude than anything.

I've plenty of experience with them.  I'm sorry you're so terribly offended that Bioware's trying to copy their gameplay,  but at the end of the day,  no matter how much you protest,  that's still what it is.  Personally,  I'd *really* like it if you'd drop the fanatacism,  but I doubt that's going to happen either.  I've yet to see a word of criticism out of you,  but you'll be within 5 posts of anything criticising Bioware in order to defend them.

You might also want to take a few moments and actually watch/read what you linked to.  Big hint:  The hobbits mission isn't to go visit every race,  solve their internal problems,  and rally them to assault Mt. Doom.  In fact,  you never see the Dwarves,  the Hobbits don't fight anything,  and the elves fight exactly one battle.

You don't see something wrong with reusing the same plot two games later?

[111987]

Shepard's Resurrection isn't a plot hole, especially if it's addressed in ME3. What if it turns out to be incredibly significant? Something along the lines of being rebuilt using Reaper tech, and now Shepard has to face an internal struggle against the Reapers seeking to control him?

All wild speculation of course.

Tissue and organ regeneration/cloning, along with cybernetic enhancements, would restore the body and actually enhance it. Since even today humans don't know how memories stored, simply cloning his brain cells could have reproduced his memories (a common theory is that memories are stored via neurons, which could be cloned). The only part of the revival addressed is how they reanimated his body.

And no matter what explanation Bioware gave for that, it would be met with criticism. Believe it or not, but Bioware doesn't hold the key to reanimating dead people.

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

You don't see something wrong with reusing the same plot two games later?

No more than I see a problem with Bioware reusing the Hero's Journey for the tenth time. Or the "choose your own mission" structure. Why should anyone care whether Bioware reuses a premise? Presentation is the key factor.

[Biotic Sage]

Can I just say that I think the term "hipster" is extremely overused and often inappropriately applied to things.

[111987]

@ Gatt9

While I understand why you might be upset at Bioware's unoriginality in regards to game play, is it really so bad to take cues from some of the most successful shooting games of all time? All that does is enhance the game play. It doesn't take away from the dialogue, or the story, the characters, etc...

[Balek-Vriege]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

asindre wrote...
Sheps ressurection is not a plot hole, just very bad writing.

This is a story :The king is dead and the queen now rules.

This is a story with plot : The king is dead By poison and the queen now rules.

How was he exactly poisoned?  Who did the actual poisoning?  At what time did the King eat is food?  Did the story specifically state who poisoned him?  Where did they get the poison?  Do we know if the action of poisoning shown? If it wasn't it didn't happen or wasn't properly explained.  Plot hole...

That seems to be a lot of the arguments people are getting after they say the King died from poisoning and therefore it wasn't a plot hole.

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Or another example.

Story : The rebels blows up the Death star.

Story with plot : The rebels blows up the Death star by launching proton torpedoes though a thermal exhaust port resulting in a chain reaction.

Did they ever explain how the Death Star actually works?  It seems unrealistic.  Doesn't it cost a lot of money to build such a big weapon?  Couldn't they have built a super large fleet and defeated the Rebels with the same resources?  Again not realistic.  Plot hole...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...


Shepard resurrection.

Story : Cerberus resurrects Shepard.

Story with plot : Ehh go fish.

Shepard's resurrection is very much a plot hole.

Story : Cerberus resurrects Shepard.

Story with plot : Cerberus ressurects Shepard with Lazarus Project to use his unique experience vs. the Reapers to help solve the Collector-Reaper mystery and help save colonies.

Up to you whether you apply the 1000 mini questions to pick it apart into a plot hole.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 31 août 2011 - 02:26 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

111987 wrote...

Shepard's Resurrection isn't a plot hole, especially if it's addressed in ME3. What if it turns out to be incredibly significant? Something along the lines of being rebuilt using Reaper tech, and now Shepard has to face an internal struggle against the Reapers seeking to control him?

All wild speculation of course.

Tissue and organ regeneration/cloning, along with cybernetic enhancements, would restore the body and actually enhance it. Since even today humans don't know how memories stored, simply cloning his brain cells could have reproduced his memories (a common theory is that memories are stored via neurons, which could be cloned). The only part of the revival addressed is how they reanimated his body.

And no matter what explanation Bioware gave for that, it would be met with criticism. Believe it or not, but Bioware doesn't hold the key to reanimating dead people.

How the hell would you clone a neuron??
Cloning is not a photocopying machine.

[111987]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Shepard's Resurrection isn't a plot hole, especially if it's addressed in ME3. What if it turns out to be incredibly significant? Something along the lines of being rebuilt using Reaper tech, and now Shepard has to face an internal struggle against the Reapers seeking to control him?

All wild speculation of course.

Tissue and organ regeneration/cloning, along with cybernetic enhancements, would restore the body and actually enhance it. Since even today humans don't know how memories stored, simply cloning his brain cells could have reproduced his memories (a common theory is that memories are stored via neurons, which could be cloned). The only part of the revival addressed is how they reanimated his body.

And no matter what explanation Bioware gave for that, it would be met with criticism. Believe it or not, but Bioware doesn't hold the key to reanimating dead people.

How the hell would you clone a neuron??
Cloning is not a photocopying machine.

1. It's a sci-fi game. It's called suspension of disbelief.

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

[Anacronian Stryx]

111987 wrote...

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

Soo you extract the DNA from a neuron(which is the exact same as all the other DNA in the body) and then what?
Are you suggesting that memories are stored in the DNA or something?

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 31 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

Soo you extract the DNA from a neuron(which is the exact same as all the other DNA in the body) and then what?
Are you suggesting that memories are stored in the DNA or something?

Actually no one really knows how brains store memory.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 31 août 2011 - 02:39 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

Soo you extract the DNA from a neuron(which is the exact same as all the other DNA in the body) and then what?
Are you suggesting that memories are stored in the DNA or something?

Actually no one really knows how brains store memory.

Actually a lot of people do.

[111987]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

Soo you extract the DNA from a neuron(which is the exact same as all the other DNA in the body) and then what?
Are you suggesting that memories are stored in the DNA or something?

No no I'm saying, because in real life we don't know how or where memories are stored, we can't discount the possibility of cloning brain cells not restructuring memories. The leading theory on where memories are stored is in the synapses between brain cells. So by cloning his brain cells and stimulating them in a specific way, the same neural synapes could potentially be formed.

Or maybe they just implanted a computer chip that interfaces with his brain that gives him all the main memories Shepard had.

EDIT: No, we defintley do not know 100% how and where memories are stored. If you somehow know this, you are the first.

Modifié par 111987, 31 août 2011 - 02:42 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

Soo you extract the DNA from a neuron(which is the exact same as all the other DNA in the body) and then what?
Are you suggesting that memories are stored in the DNA or something?

Actually no one really knows how brains store memory.

Actually a lot of people do.

Do they?  I thought it was still being researched on how exactly it works.  We know  Neurons tramsmit info through electrical charges (short term memory I think) and somhow store that info within themselves.  Long Term is something about the arrangement of connected neurons if I remember correctly. But do we know how memories are stored exactly?

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 31 août 2011 - 02:46 .

[Xeranx]

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Shepard's Resurrection isn't a plot hole, especially if it's addressed in ME3. What if it turns out to be incredibly significant? Something along the lines of being rebuilt using Reaper tech, and now Shepard has to face an internal struggle against the Reapers seeking to control him?

All wild speculation of course.

Tissue and organ regeneration/cloning, along with cybernetic enhancements, would restore the body and actually enhance it. Since even today humans don't know how memories stored, simply cloning his brain cells could have reproduced his memories (a common theory is that memories are stored via neurons, which could be cloned). The only part of the revival addressed is how they reanimated his body.

And no matter what explanation Bioware gave for that, it would be met with criticism. Believe it or not, but Bioware doesn't hold the key to reanimating dead people.

How the hell would you clone a neuron??
Cloning is not a photocopying machine.

1. It's a sci-fi game. It's called suspension of disbelief.

2. Why couldn't you clone a neuron? A neuron is a brain cell. A brain cell has a nucleus, which has DNA. Therefore a brain cell can theoretically be cloned.

This reminds me of the special coating KITT had that made him nigh impervious to anything.  I don't remember too well what happened, but I know that one of the people who designed it died some time after the coating was discovered.  Therefore it couldn't be sufficiently explained or duplicated when a solvent was used to remove it from KITT some time later.

In a nut shell what many people are asking isn't something that's too hard to do.  You can imply that getting the answers for questions is hard to do and the person being asked said questions can't begin to explain it...so it's best to just leave it alone and worry about more important things.  This was present with Jacob, but the lack of introspection or the ability to have introspection on Shepard's part leaves a lot to be desired.  

I hazard a guess that many, if not everyone, here would have liked to have been able to give some kind of answer or have people marvel at how it happened.

ETA: There was also the element there with Wilson.  Shepard notes that Wilson was there when they woke up and Wilson replies "let's talk about it after we fix my leg".  Immediately after mechs attack and Jacob (awkwardly) starts addressing an issue that never came to me the first time I played.  Getting tense, it wasn't for me until he mentioned Cerberus.  In either case, Jacob steps on any possible time for Shepard to get some answers, but provides the idea that Shepard could ask TIM later.  That gets bungled with Miranda.  I don't know how it could have gone.  Having her say she doesn't know more about it would bring to question how she knew Wilson's measurements were off in the first place.  I'll stop before i get more long-winded about this.

Modifié par Xeranx, 31 août 2011 - 02:51 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The human brain is capable of understanding everything but itself.

Forgot where I heard that...sounds cool though.

[Leonia]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The human brain is capable of understanding everything but itself.

Forgot where I heard that...sounds cool though.

Totally the best post in this thread.