6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Of course Shepard's importance is over-inflated...he's the protagonist of the story.

Did you want to play as a common Alliance soldier? 0.o

And Shepard is unique. He is literally the only one who can united the galaxy. As I've pointed out, his connections/relationships with so many key factions is entirely unique. Not to mention the Prothean Cipher. Seeing as how the Protheans have been confirmed to play a role in ME3, this could end up being hugely significant.

NO. Shep is as unique as anyone else. The Prother cipher is of no obvious use either.

What makes you think he's hte only one who could unite the galaxy? On what do you base the reasoning that everyone will obediently follow him? Other than the fact that he is a protagonist, but that in itself is not a valid reason.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, its a redicolous premise from the get go. Not only is the lazarus project stupid in itself, but startign it specificly for Sheppard is even more stupid.

There's nothing special about Sheppard other than the Prother Cipher. NOTHING.
The icon BS is just BS. Icons are made an icons come and go. Shep isn't any more special than Kaidan or Ashely or Jack or aeed or Kasumi or Garrus - they ALL fought the reapers. They are ALL icons.

Nothing special out side the fact that he/she killed a reaper and is the face of humanity? Right.
But that was not my point which you ignored. It'snot about Shepard being special or being the only one to kill the reapers. It's about his/her reconition and skill to kill one. Sure anyone can save the universe but can that anyone ensure the rise of humanity or the servival of humanity. The savior can be anyone from any race and most likly, base on the fact no other human is a well known as Shepard, will be from another race. And TIM want 2 things, humanity to servive and to be empowered and Shepard is key to that. No mattter how great the other races generals, worriors,and soldiers are, with Shepard alive they will always differ to Shepard the reaper killer.

Now you're not making sense..
What makes sheap so special that he's the only one to count?

Again, plenty of humans followed Shep from the start and are just as capable and eroic as he is. Or what about Hackeet? The 5th fleet saved the Citadel. Wihout it, Shepard would have still lost. Hackket is also an icon.


Aslo, no on the bolded. That's redicolous thinking. What makes oyu think that tehy will laways refer to sheaprd? How do oyu know that?
They are more likely to reffer to Hackket than Shepard (sicne he actually fought a reaper directly) - if they reffer to anyone at all.

"And TIM want 2 things, humanity to servive and to be empowered and Shepard is key to that."
.......How on earth can you not read that?

[lazuli]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
NO. Shep is as unique as anyone else. The Prother cipher is of no obvious use either.

What makes you think he's hte only one who could unite the galaxy? On what do you base the reasoning that everyone will obediently follow him? Other than the fact that he is a protagonist, but that in itself is not a valid reason.

"You're unique.  Not just in ability, or in what you've experienced, but in what you represent."
"You stood for humanity at a key moment.  You're more than a soldier- you're a symbol."
"And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one.  They have to respect that."


Edit: Oh, ew.  I accidentally posted in a smudboy thread, thereby lending his tired viewpoints relevance.  There are ways to discuss Mass Effect 2 without bringing his name up.  Heck, there are even forums for it.

Modifié par lazuli, 31 août 2011 - 03:51 .

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Of course Shepard's importance is over-inflated...he's the protagonist of the story.

Did you want to play as a common Alliance soldier? 0.o

And Shepard is unique. He is literally the only one who can united the galaxy. As I've pointed out, his connections/relationships with so many key factions is entirely unique. Not to mention the Prothean Cipher. Seeing as how the Protheans have been confirmed to play a role in ME3, this could end up being hugely significant.

NO. Shep is as unique as anyone else. The Prother cipher is of no obvious use either.

What makes you think he's hte only one who could unite the galaxy? On what do you base the reasoning that everyone will obediently follow him? Other than the fact that he is a protagonist, but that in itself is not a valid reason.

Shepard is unique being the best soldier in the allaince and the first human spectre. I don't see many human that can go face to face with a krant of Krogan.

Modifié par dreman9999, 31 août 2011 - 03:52 .

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Yes yes, we get it, "My Mass Effect is vintage" etc etc.

Why are you still here??

If you absolutly haven't got anything meaning to say, i could ask you the same.

Nothing that you will say will fix this painfull truth.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Of course Shepard's importance is over-inflated...he's the protagonist of the story.

Did you want to play as a common Alliance soldier? 0.o

And Shepard is unique. He is literally the only one who can united the galaxy. As I've pointed out, his connections/relationships with so many key factions is entirely unique. Not to mention the Prothean Cipher. Seeing as how the Protheans have been confirmed to play a role in ME3, this could end up being hugely significant.

NO. Shep is as unique as anyone else. The Prother cipher is of no obvious use either.

What makes you think he's hte only one who could unite the galaxy? On what do you base the reasoning that everyone will obediently follow him? Other than the fact that he is a protagonist, but that in itself is not a valid reason.

Just because the Prothean cipher hasn't played a role yet doesn't mean it won't play a role, right?

Shepard is the only one who can unite the galaxy because of what he has accomplished and the relations he's formed.

Assuming Shepard is a Paragon:
First Human Spectre: strong connection with the Citadel Council, the most most powerful political force in the galaxy. Saving their lives makes them personally indebted to Shepard.

Defeating Sovereign/Saren: Gain respect/admiration from the council races (i.e. Turian in gunshop). Since I know you'll say that the Turian in the gunshop is just one person, he is obviously intended to reflect the general opinion the Turians have of Shepard. It makes Shepard a powerful symbol to rally behind; he is the only person known to have defeated a Reaper. That's the kind of person you rally behind when the Reapers attack.

Saving the Rachni: Shepard personally freed them, and gave them a chance to rebuild. He met the Rachni Queen. He has a personal connection with her, which could prove to be very useful.

Urdnot Wrex: Sparing Wrex, who becomes the leader of the most powerful Krogan clan and is leading many progressive reforms, gives Shepard a personal connection with the leader of the most powerful Krogan force. Krogan don't listen or respect other aliens; Shepard is the only known exception to this.

Alliance: Shepard was already a greatly respected figure in the Alliance before ME1. He has a very close, friendly relationship with Admiral Anderson, who is one of the most powerful figures in the Alliance. No other soldier has as good a relation with Anderson than Shepard. The same goes for Admiral Hackett, another very powerful/important Alliance figure.

[_purifico_]

A lot of butthurting people here in this thread. You should relax.
I loved ME2 as much as ME and even more. It's my favouriter game of all time. And still I find Smudboy's videos hilarious. I may not agree with everything he says and he is nitpicking a lot, but he also has some valid points. I just enjoy watching his videos because they are ****ing funny. Which you should too. Or don't watch them if you lack a sense of humor. Just stop with the fanboism and this particular Bioware snobism.

[111987]

_purifico_ wrote...

A lot of butthurting people here in this thread. You should relax.
I loved ME2 as much as ME and even more. It's my favouriter game of all time. And still I find Smudboy's videos hilarious. I may not agree with everything he says and he is nitpicking a lot, but he also has some valid points. I just enjoy watching his videos because they are ****ing funny. Which you should too. Or don't watch them if you lack a sense of humor. Just stop with the fanboism and this particular Bioware snobism.

Not to be rude, but just because you think something is humorous, doesn't mean everyone else should, and if they don't, that person doesn't have a sense of humor.

[Whatever42]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

nope.
You cannot recreate neural pathways. Especially not from memory.

Not to mention for you idea to work one would have to know the setup before death... and how would you know that?

You cannot travel faster than the speed of light. The brain is just a lump of tissue. Why couldn't we recreate neural pathways conceivably. According to what we understand about physics, it's far more possible than using magic dark matter to travel faster than light. 

Not to mention, there could be a missing piece in there. The Reapers were running around in ME1merging man and machine. Saren ended his life as a cyborg. Then in ME2, Cerberus uses biosynthetic fusion to re-create the neural pathways. Seems pretty on-plot to me. 

Shepard was injured at the end of ME1. One assumes that he would have had a full work-up, which could have included brain scans. Imaging in the future would be far more advanced than today.

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Shepard is a overblown wanker.
He's importance is over-inflated for the sake of story, in defaince of all reason.

Captain Kirk isn't special
Piccard wasn't special either
Frodo wasn't special
Jack Sparrow wasn't special
Nothing special about Mel form Firefly
Nothing Special about Jack Bower

I could go on and on and on... Why does a protagonist have to have some mystical importance?

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Shepard is a overblown wanker.
He's importance is over-inflated for the sake of story, in defaince of all reason.

Captain Kirk isn't special
Piccard wasn't special either
Frodo wasn't special
Jack Sparrow wasn't special
Nothing special about John-117
Nothing Special about Jack Bower

I could go on and on and on... Why does a protagonist have to have some mystical importance?

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

[Fixers0]

SpiffySquee wrote...

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

He also was pulverisd and reduced into tiny ashes, If TIM wanted to stop the Reapers he could just order his supposed army to take care of it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

nope.
You cannot recreate neural pathways. Especially not from memory.

Not to mention for you idea to work one would have to know the setup before death... and how would you know that?

You cannot travel faster than the speed of light. The brain is just a lump of tissue. Why couldn't we recreate neural pathways conceivably. According to what we understand about physics, it's far more possible than using magic dark matter to travel faster than light. 

Not to mention, there could be a missing piece in there. The Reapers were running around in ME1merging man and machine. Saren ended his life as a cyborg. Then in ME2, Cerberus uses biosynthetic fusion to re-create the neural pathways. Seems pretty on-plot to me. 

Shepard was injured at the end of ME1. One assumes that he would have had a full work-up, which could have included brain scans. Imaging in the future would be far more advanced than today.

The problem with recreating a person's mind / persona / whatever from a severely damaged brain is that the data to recreate them is simply lost.  It's gone.  Poof.  It was stored in a way that fails when the brain is pulped and frozen.  The electrochemical states and synaptic patterns are just gone. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

At least the Reapers have a legit reason to harvest people beyond being evil douchebags.

Harvesting people makes them evil d-bags. 

Here's the thing. We don't know why they are doing it but based on Harbingers comments, it's clear they think they are trying to help us.

How nice for them.

Still evil.

As much as I many not like being grinded up into a pulp, They may be right. In nature, life is all about grouping to gether and becoming one organisum or like one organism.. Forest has herbivores to grind leaves down to minerals to help planet's grow. Carnivors get herbivoresto control their amount. The whole point is that their is a balancing game in nature and a drive for species to be a unit one way or another, like how permordial cells form to be one organisum over time. The reapers could be seeing it that way and just pushing evolution to a point that a race is just one super evolved organism.

All entirely irrelevent.  Still evil. 

Their motives are meaningless.  Look at what they're doing to other thinking beings. 

Kidnapping, torture, murder, deprivation of choice, genocide, etc. 

You can cite all the "natural process" crap you want, it doesn't make the Reapers' means any more justifiable.  And really, the forcible transformation of other thinking beings into a different form is an evil end, as well.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 31 août 2011 - 04:44 .

[Iakus]

[quote]111987 wrote...

Just because the Prothean cipher hasn't played a role yet doesn't mean it won't play a role, right?[/quote]

A possibility, but the fact that Feros doesn't appear at all in Mass Effect:  Genesis makes me suspect we'll never hear about the Cipher again.

[/quote]
Shepard is the only one who can unite the galaxy because of what he has accomplished and the relations he's formed.

/snip
[/quote]

And as of ME2 neither the Alliance nor the Council trusts Shepard no matter what happened in ME1.  SOmething about possibly faking his death and going over to work with Cerberus...

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

He also was pulverisd and reduced into tiny ashes, If TIM wanted to stop the Reapers he could just order his supposed army to take care of it.

No, he could not. How would he make an army to couter indocrination, the reapers defenses, and have the defence to that a reapers attack power? With the reaper, throwing numbers of troops will not stop them. All reaper can do it land on a city anddo nothing, the armies won't have a way to damage it and soon the troops will be indorcinated. They need to find a weaknessto be able to take down the reapers not an army or a fleet. A fleet can only finshed them off once they are weakened.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

At least the Reapers have a legit reason to harvest people beyond being evil douchebags.

Harvesting people makes them evil d-bags. 

Here's the thing. We don't know why they are doing it but based on Harbingers comments, it's clear they think they are trying to help us.

How nice for them.

Still evil.

As much as I many not like being grinded up into a pulp, They may be right. In nature, life is all about grouping to gether and becoming one organisum or like one organism.. Forest has herbivores to grind leaves down to minerals to help planet's grow. Carnivors get herbivoresto control their amount. The whole point is that their is a balancing game in nature and a drive for species to be a unit one way or another, like how permordial cells form to be one organisum over time. The reapers could be seeing it that way and just pushing evolution to a point that a race is just one super evolved organism.

All entirely irrelevent.  Still evil. 

Their motives are meaningless.  Look at what they're doing to other thinking beings. 

Kidnapping, torture, murder, deprivation of choice, genocide, etc. 

No, it's not. The reason why they are doing this is important and canhold the key to stopping them.

[Iakus]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Shepard is a overblown wanker.
He's importance is over-inflated for the sake of story, in defaince of all reason.

Captain Kirk isn't special
Piccard wasn't special either
Frodo wasn't special
Jack Sparrow wasn't special
Nothing special about Mel form Firefly
Nothing Special about Jack Bower

I could go on and on and on... Why does a protagonist have to have some mystical importance?

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

And in ME1, Shepard was much like them.  A superbly trained Alliance marine who already survived one or more deadly encounters.  Exceptional, certainly, but not unique.  It was the Prothean beacon, and later the Cipher that made Shepard "special"  That's what allowed him to interpret events and gave him the tools needed to stop Sovereign and Saren.  RIght person, right place, right time.

It wasn't until ME2 and TIM's speech that Shepard became some kind of mystical savior figure who could save the galaxy with the power of his sheer awesomeness.  Right person.  Full stop.

[111987]

iakus wrote...

111987 wrote...

Just because the Prothean cipher hasn't played a role yet doesn't mean it won't play a role, right?

A possibility, but the fact that Feros doesn't appear at all in Mass Effect:  Genesis makes me suspect we'll never hear about the Cipher again.


Shepard is the only one who can unite the galaxy because of what he has accomplished and the relations he's formed.

/snip


And as of ME2 neither the Alliance nor the Council trusts Shepard no matter what happened in ME1.  SOmething about possibly faking his death and going over to work with Cerberus...

True it didn't show up in the comic, but that also could have been because there was no huge choice made there. You can choose whether or not you save Wrex, or the Rachni, but you can't choose whether you get the Cipher or not.

Shepard is still a Spectre though, and in ME3 Shepard isn't working with Cerberus. Which means that trust has been restored. And that doesn't negate the point I made about the other unique connections Shepard had that made him irreplaceable.

Modifié par 111987, 31 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

He also was pulverisd and reduced into tiny ashes, If TIM wanted to stop the Reapers he could just order his supposed army to take care of it.

Shep was not turned to ashes. Jacob clearly state that what was left of Shepard was "Meat and tubes" and he's clearly not a doctor who can say what was intact enough to revive.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

All entirely irrelevent.  Still evil. 

Their motives are meaningless.  Look at what they're doing to other thinking beings. 

Kidnapping, torture, murder, deprivation of choice, genocide, etc. 

No, it's not. The reason why they are doing this is important and canhold the key to stopping them.

It's entirely irrelvent as to whether their ends and their means are evil. 

And from everything we've seen so far, their ends and their means are both flat out evil. 

[Fixers0]

dreman9999 wrote...

No, he could not. How would he make an army to couter indocrination, the reapers defenses, and have the defence to that a reapers attack power? With the reaper, throwing numbers of troops will not stop them. All reaper can do it land on a city anddo nothing, the armies won't have a way to damage it and soon the troops will be indorcinated. They need to find a weaknessto be able to take down the reapers not an army or a fleet. A fleet can only finshed them off once they are weakened.

You're missing the point, TIM wanted to stop Collectors, and for some reason he want's Shepard even though by the TIM gets to that conclusion, there isn't much of Shepard left to recruit, so why not use your army, get that IFF, Scout the relay, trap the collectors or whatever it takes to stop them, that's much more worth the effort then spending the next two years bringing back tabula rasa Shepard.

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Shepard is a overblown wanker.
He's importance is over-inflated for the sake of story, in defaince of all reason.

Captain Kirk isn't special
Piccard wasn't special either
Frodo wasn't special
Jack Sparrow wasn't special
Nothing special about Mel form Firefly
Nothing Special about Jack Bower

I could go on and on and on... Why does a protagonist have to have some mystical importance?

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

And in ME1, Shepard was much like them.  A superbly trained Alliance marine who already survived one or more deadly encounters.  Exceptional, certainly, but not unique.  It was the Prothean beacon, and later the Cipher that made Shepard "special"  That's what allowed him to interpret events and gave him the tools needed to stop Sovereign and Saren.  RIght person, right place, right time.

It wasn't until ME2 and TIM's speech that Shepard became some kind of mystical savior figure who could save the galaxy with the power of his sheer awesomeness.  Right person.  Full stop.

1. He was unique enough to be choosen to be a spectre, a rank that only the very best get.
2. Then he kill a reaper and saved the citidel, which then made him unique amonge the spectres.

That is unique.

[SpiffySquee]

Fixers0 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

No one had accomplished what Shepard had. He was a symbol and a hero, and TIM felt he could use that to his advantage. It does not matter if you would have done it. It matters if he would have done it. You know almost nothing about him, his motivation, and his personality, yet you think you can tell us what he would or would not think.

He also was pulverisd and reduced into tiny ashes, If TIM wanted to stop the Reapers he could just order his supposed army to take care of it.

What? How does that have anything to do with him being a hero? Hell, the death and resurrection would have made him more of a hero. Look! Another thing Shep has accomplished no one else has. And don't give me the, "But no one did that in the game!" Most people didn't even know Shep was alive again by the end of ME2.


And what army? Cerberus is a covert organization with individual cells that worth separately. Sure he supposedly has forces in ME3 but we have no evidence of this army in ME2, so we do not know where and when he got it.


Even if he already had it, his "terrorist Army" would not receive anywhere near the effect on human hearts and minds as Shepard would. The Lazarus was already being worked on when Shepard died. This is evidenced by the fact Wilson assured Miranda they could use it on Shep when they received his body. This means the concept had to have already been worked on.


So TIM thinks he may have found a way to resurrect the dead. If it is true he would have an unbelievably powerful tool. But, you need to try it out on someone. Do you bring back some random solider, or the Hero of the Citadel?


By bringing Shep back, he gains a powerful pawn, verifies Lazarus works, and can Use Shep's status as a hero to gain PR.

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No, he could not. How would he make an army to couter indocrination, the reapers defenses, and have the defence to that a reapers attack power? With the reaper, throwing numbers of troops will not stop them. All reaper can do it land on a city anddo nothing, the armies won't have a way to damage it and soon the troops will be indorcinated. They need to find a weaknessto be able to take down the reapers not an army or a fleet. A fleet can only finshed them off once they are weakened.

You're missing the point, TIM wanted to stop Collectors, and for some reason he want's Shepard even though by the TIM gets to that conclusion, there isn't much of Shepard left to recruit, so why not use your army, get that IFF, Scout the relay, trap the collectors or whatever it takes to stop them, that's much more worth the effort then spending the next two years bringing back tabula rasa Shepard.

No , you don't understand. TIM wants to stop the reapers and he feels that stopping the collector ,or reaper agents which he called them before the first mission on freedom's progress, is one the major keys to that. Remeber, no one knew the colloctor were behind the colony snaching untill after freedom's progress. Taking down the collectors means getting to their tech which is reapers tech. Getting to reaper tech lets them understand their enemy better and give them more power. Heck, THE SR-2 has a reaper core in it and look what it can do.
And TIM is a long term planner, he alway intend to use Shepard afterthe mission is done, directly or indirectly. If TIM can't control Shepard, he clear can control the leaders of humanity which he already did at the time of ME2. The man assasinated a pope.

Modifié par dreman9999, 31 août 2011 - 05:00 .