6494 réponses à ce sujet

[bduff4545]

Alocormin wrote...

There are endless holes in many of smudboy's arguments. He is very absolute. That very much annoys me.

I agree, I mean some of his arguments are actually right until he goes on and on about teeny tiny things...It makes me sick:sick:.

[Xeranx]

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

[Iakus]

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

If we didn't think our opinions were true, why would we defend them?  

[Balek-Vriege]

bduff4545 wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

There are endless holes in many of smudboy's arguments. He is very absolute. That very much annoys me.

I agree, I mean some of his arguments are actually right until he goes on and on about teeny tiny things...It makes me sick.

Xeranx wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

Which bduff4545 just expressed in bold in her last post.


(To be fair you might not have seen it. I always try to refresh the page so I don't post out of turn hehe)

Some of his points are valid.  It doesn't make them 100% right or wrong and doesn't make the way he presents them correct either (especially since there are holes in his arguments).  If people feel turned off by obvious extreme bias or the lack of self doubt in his arguments, it's not their fault.  It's Smudboy's.

If you're going to be that absolute and post videos on youtube expressing such opinions as fact,  you have to be willing to take the heat because of it.  That's why I never deal with absolutes in my own arguments because there's always a chance i'm in fact wrong.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 01 septembre 2011 - 02:46 .

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

If we didn't think our opinions were true, why would we defend them?  

Personally, I argue my opinions to hear the counter-arguments. It's a good way to learn. People who think they're infallible and always right are insane.

[SpiffySquee]

Xeranx wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

I agree no one should discount his arguments because of his apparent arrogance. I also will be the first to admit that some of his points are valid. You, however, are making a crap load of assumptions here and insulting someone for no reason. They said one sentence. That does not mean that is the only conclusion they drew. It does not mean they did not agree with some of his points. It certainly does not mean they let his presentation blind them to his arguments. These are all baseless assumptions you made. 

Perhaps that is all they felt like pointing out. Or, perhaps they felt his points were valid and, thus, only his presentation needed to be brought up. Perhaps you should ask for clarification before you go off on some tangent, making assumptions about things you know nothing about. 

Worst of all, you just did exactly what you tied to criticize them for doing. You paid attention to what you felt, instead of what actually was or was not said. Bravo. It is rare to see someone prove they don't follow what they preach in they very post they tied to preach in. 

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 01 septembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. He was unique enough to be choosen to be a spectre, a rank that only the very best get.
2. Then he kill a reaper and saved the citidel, which then made him unique amonge the spectres.

That is unique.

1) Being selected as a Spectre candidate is definitely no small thing.  Becoming one is een greater.  But hat only makes him unique in that he's the first human Spectre.  A decision made as much for political as practical reasons. 

Consider, we have seen other Spectres in the game:  Nihlis, Saren, Tela Vasir.  In ME3 the Virmire Survivor will be one too.  Garrus and Anderson have also been looked at as possible Spectre candidates.  So this does not make Shepard unique.  Exceptional, yes.  But how far would Vasir have gotten in tracking down Saren without the beacon visions?

2) Yes he killed a Reaper.  But anyone in his place could have done so at that point:  Ash, Wrex, Garrus, even Tali.  Let alone another Spectre.  What put him in that place at that time to be able to do so?  "Shepard stood for humanity at a key moment"  What made it possible for him to do so?  It was not his sheer symbolic awesomeness. 

1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

[Whatever42]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Good question.  The only way I was thinking was a brain scan of some type (basically Shepard's medical history).  If there was someway to map neural pathways from a brain scan 200 years in the future, you might be able to mimic such pathways by force enigneering them with nanites etc.  Then you could possibly just boot up the brain with a certain electrical pattern that it had before and voila.  Memories copied.

Sort of like copying a switchboard exactly so a person can get through with the same setup, but impossibly complicated (well at least in the present).

Check out this article on what we're doing with translating neural activity to specific thoughts. 

http://www.sciencede...complex-thought

Pretty wild.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. He was unique enough to be choosen to be a spectre, a rank that only the very best get.
2. Then he kill a reaper and saved the citidel, which then made him unique amonge the spectres.

That is unique.

1) Being selected as a Spectre candidate is definitely no small thing.  Becoming one is een greater.  But hat only makes him unique in that he's the first human Spectre.  A decision made as much for political as practical reasons. 

Consider, we have seen other Spectres in the game:  Nihlis, Saren, Tela Vasir.  In ME3 the Virmire Survivor will be one too.  Garrus and Anderson have also been looked at as possible Spectre candidates.  So this does not make Shepard unique.  Exceptional, yes.  But how far would Vasir have gotten in tracking down Saren without the beacon visions?

2) Yes he killed a Reaper.  But anyone in his place could have done so at that point:  Ash, Wrex, Garrus, even Tali.  Let alone another Spectre.  What put him in that place at that time to be able to do so?  "Shepard stood for humanity at a key moment"  What made it possible for him to do so?  It was not his sheer symbolic awesomeness. 

1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

I don't wanna enter the discussion because I already argued it do death with smudboy himself which went nowhere, but I'll contribute with something that just came up to my mind. There are some key events/status to Shepards journey in ME1 that mostly take account who he is/what he does:
1) being a candidate to the spectres aboard the Normandy which led him to the Eden Prime
2) bumping into Ashley and being hit by the prothean beacon
3) Become a spectre and given the mission to pursue Saren
4) Acquiring the cipher and prothean messages with the help of Liara
5) With Anderson's help, pursuit Saren on Ilos
6) Being a key component on Sovereign's defeat by stoping Saren

[Balek-Vriege]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Good question.  The only way I was thinking was a brain scan of some type (basically Shepard's medical history).  If there was someway to map neural pathways from a brain scan 200 years in the future, you might be able to mimic such pathways by force enigneering them with nanites etc.  Then you could possibly just boot up the brain with a certain electrical pattern that it had before and voila.  Memories copied.

Sort of like copying a switchboard exactly so a person can get through with the same setup, but impossibly complicated (well at least in the present).

Check out this article on what we're doing with translating neural activity to specific thoughts. 

http://www.sciencede...complex-thought

Pretty wild.

That is pretty wild.  Makes you think about what it could lead to even in the near future.

Thanks for posting.

[Xeranx]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

I agree no one should discount his arguments because of his apparent arrogance. I also will be the first to admit that some of his points are valid. You, however, are making a crap load of assumptions here and insulting someone for no reason. They said one sentence. That does not mean that is the only conclusion they drew. It does not mean they did not agree with some of his points. It certainly does not mean they let his presentation blind them to his arguments. These are all baseless assumptions you made. 

Perhaps that is all they felt like pointing out. Or, perhaps they felt his points were valid and, thus, only his presentation needed to be brought up. Perhaps you should ask for clarification before you go off on some tangent, making assumptions about things you know nothing about. 

Worst of all, you just did exactly what you tied to criticize them for doing. You paid attention to what you felt, instead of what actually was or was not said. Bravo. It is rare to see someone prove they don't follow what they preach in they very post they tied to preach in. 

You are wrong.  Full stop.  The bulk of my post focused on the comment I quoted.  If that is unclear then I can't help you.  

In case you didn't notice, I pointed out what his comment said to me not what I felt.  It's there in black and white and not even you can say it doesn't convey contempt for Smudboy on the basis of how he comes across without touching anything of what he says but focuses on how he says it.  I followed a statement to a logical conclusion.  So what "crap load of assumptions" am I making about bduff's post?

People have made comments about Smudboy's points in his videos and offered their opinions of how they felt he/his videos came across.  I've never gone at them for that if they also talk about the points being made.  I don't believe I've gone after anyone in any other discussion like that either.  I'm just sick and tired of people trashing him because they don't like how he sounds.  Most of the time things like that can't be helped so it does no good to make remarks about it.  It's like making fun of someone who stutters.  Then there's the fact that a developer comes in and decides he will base his own personal judgement on the judgements of those who most likely detest Smudboy.  That's entirely grade-school era.  Seriously, how many people remarked about your sardonic tone in your videos?  If I were to comment on just that and think you thought you had him in the bag would I be adding to the discussion or trying to find some way to attack you because of how you come across?

If the comment made is all they felt like sharing then it would have been better to not say anything at all.  As I noted, it doesn't add to the discussion and only serves to further ridiculue the individual who isn't on the forums to defend himself as we know he would.  Sure I could ask for clarification, but this is not the first post that bduff has made that bears the tone it does: that he doesn't care for Smudboy's points and only wants to ridicule him for any other reason.  Maybe you chose not to notice that.  I'll link them for you.

Confirmed, smudboy is a douche.

I'm sorry, but he's starting to think his opinion is higher than everyone's at the moment saying that ME2's plot is one of the worst for a sequel is a fact.

Your starting to think your opinion is law, in a way your jst like smudboy.

Those posts were made days ago before he finally comes on 3 hours ago to say that he watched Smudboy's response to yours and has the same tone that conveys contempt.  Prior to this he didn't even know who Smudboy was.  It's well known that when people would pick at Smudboy he'd retaliate.  I never condoned it but if the same people that ridiculed before showed up to debate with him in a new thread he acted like they never stopped and would take shots at them in said new thread or threads.

You should pay more attention before you try coming to someone's rescue.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

iakus wrote...
"You are unique.  Not just in ability or experience, but in knowledge.  Other than Saren, you are the only person to survive contact with a Prothean beacon.  You have in your mind the Cipher, the cultural knowledge and perspective of the last race to fight the Reapers.  You have spoken with Vigil and even conversed with Sovereign himself.  In short, you know more about our enemy than anyone else in the galaxy". 

I hate to invoke an Internet meme, but...

IAKUS

Y U NO WORK FOR BIOWARE

While it would be nice to have that in the game, I don't need the game to spell it out for me. 

[Gatt9]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

I agree no one should discount his arguments because of his apparent arrogance. I also will be the first to admit that some of his points are valid. You, however, are making a crap load of assumptions here and insulting someone for no reason. They said one sentence. That does not mean that is the only conclusion they drew. It does not mean they did not agree with some of his points. It certainly does not mean they let his presentation blind them to his arguments. These are all baseless assumptions you made. 

Perhaps that is all they felt like pointing out. Or, perhaps they felt his points were valid and, thus, only his presentation needed to be brought up. Perhaps you should ask for clarification before you go off on some tangent, making assumptions about things you know nothing about. 

Worst of all, you just did exactly what you tied to criticize them for doing. You paid attention to what you felt, instead of what actually was or was not said. Bravo. It is rare to see someone prove they don't follow what they preach in they very post they tied to preach in. 

Pot...Kettle.  Kettle...Pot.

http://social.biowar...4792/20#8221574

It wasn't all that long ago you were trying to wave off a few centuries of literary technique because you feel the need to defend Bioware's plotholes and didn't like the fact that your post ignored the concept of events occurring off-camera in the examples you tried to cite.

TBH,  you're just as bad as your portayl of Smudboy.  Even when confronted with obvious problems,  you ignore them,  and when you can't,  you belittle the concepts.  What you don't do is offer viable counter-points.

Modifié par Gatt9, 01 septembre 2011 - 03:39 .

[Nashiktal]

nelly21 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Jumping through the omega 4 relay, without testing it, without knowing whats behind it, were no other ship has ever returned from, to stop something you have almost no information on, while using alien technology on board of your ship is logical?


Nice!

You've now proven my point twice.

They wanted to save their crew. Sending probes would give away their attack. Reaper IFF (Identify Friend Foe System for the mentally deficient) Disguises them long enough to get through the relay and defend themselves as necessary.

I just gave you three reasons it's logical. You will continue to find it illogical.

Now what?

How about sending a probe in at ANY point before the kidnapping? We never even knew we needed an IFF until halfway through the game, we never knew the crew was going to be kidnapped, we didn't even know where the hell it led to!

We had no way of knowing we would have had the opportunity to hack a collector ship for data, so thats not an excuse either.

Just the very act of TRYING to gather information would have helped. It would show that shep, or the illusive man are as bright as we keep being told they are. Even if the probes came back in pieces, we could glean information from that. (Were the probes destroyed by weapons fire? Were they simply smashed? Explosions? Did any recoverable data make it?)

Its just so... Terrible. We have several VERY smart people on board the normandy, but we can't even send a probe in?

[bduff4545]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

bduff4545 wrote...

I just watched smudboy's video response to squee and I can definitely tell he views his opinion as absolute.

Do you know what your statement says to me?  It says that you spent 42 minutes just listening to how he makes his points rather than trying to understand the points he makes.  Others actually heard him talk and commented on what he's said.  Just about anyone who maintains objectivity about the analysis says that some of his points valid, but he nitpicks way too much.  That shows a processing of information.  Your comment doesn't reflect that in the least.  It shows contempt for someone that others decided to hear rather than make snap judgements and close their ears as you seem to.

Honestly, if your response represents all that you got from watching the video my question would be:  What exactly are you commenting for because your response here is anything but constructive.  It serves to go back to commenting on him rather than on any points he's made.  He's not around to defend himself so taking all the shots you want at his expense does what?  Make you look good to the other idiots who do the same?  Grow up.

I agree no one should discount his arguments because of his apparent arrogance. I also will be the first to admit that some of his points are valid. You, however, are making a crap load of assumptions here and insulting someone for no reason. They said one sentence. That does not mean that is the only conclusion they drew. It does not mean they did not agree with some of his points. It certainly does not mean they let his presentation blind them to his arguments. These are all baseless assumptions you made. 

Perhaps that is all they felt like pointing out. Or, perhaps they felt his points were valid and, thus, only his presentation needed to be brought up. Perhaps you should ask for clarification before you go off on some tangent, making assumptions about things you know nothing about. 

Worst of all, you just did exactly what you tied to criticize them for doing. You paid attention to what you felt, instead of what actually was or was not said. Bravo. It is rare to see someone prove they don't follow what they preach in they very post they tied to preach in. 

Also squee never insulted smudboy's intelligence, but smudboy did at least 3 times...shows how professional he is.

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Jumping through the omega 4 relay, without testing it, without knowing whats behind it, were no other ship has ever returned from, to stop something you have almost no information on, while using alien technology on board of your ship is logical?


Nice!

You've now proven my point twice.

They wanted to save their crew. Sending probes would give away their attack. Reaper IFF (Identify Friend Foe System for the mentally deficient) Disguises them long enough to get through the relay and defend themselves as necessary.

I just gave you three reasons it's logical. You will continue to find it illogical.

Now what?

How about sending a probe in at ANY point before the kidnapping? We never even knew we needed an IFF until halfway through the game, we never knew the crew was going to be kidnapped, we didn't even know where the hell it led to!

We had no way of knowing we would have had the opportunity to hack a collector ship for data, so thats not an excuse either.

Just the very act of TRYING to gather information would have helped. It would show that shep, or the illusive man are as bright as we keep being told they are. Even if the probes came back in pieces, we could glean information from that. (Were the probes destroyed by weapons fire? Were they simply smashed? Explosions? Did any recoverable data make it?)

Its just so... Terrible. We have several VERY smart people on board the normandy, but we can't even send a probe in?

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

[Nashiktal]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Jumping through the omega 4 relay, without testing it, without knowing whats behind it, were no other ship has ever returned from, to stop something you have almost no information on, while using alien technology on board of your ship is logical?


Nice!

You've now proven my point twice.

They wanted to save their crew. Sending probes would give away their attack. Reaper IFF (Identify Friend Foe System for the mentally deficient) Disguises them long enough to get through the relay and defend themselves as necessary.

I just gave you three reasons it's logical. You will continue to find it illogical.

Now what?

How about sending a probe in at ANY point before the kidnapping? We never even knew we needed an IFF until halfway through the game, we never knew the crew was going to be kidnapped, we didn't even know where the hell it led to!

We had no way of knowing we would have had the opportunity to hack a collector ship for data, so thats not an excuse either.

Just the very act of TRYING to gather information would have helped. It would show that shep, or the illusive man are as bright as we keep being told they are. Even if the probes came back in pieces, we could glean information from that. (Were the probes destroyed by weapons fire? Were they simply smashed? Explosions? Did any recoverable data make it?)

Its just so... Terrible. We have several VERY smart people on board the normandy, but we can't even send a probe in?

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

The Shadow Broker managed to get his probes back, why can't the Illusive Man? I would love to think the Illusive Man sent probes through, but we are never told, nay even HINTED. Which is almost as bad. 

You see the probe doesnt even have to succeed. Just seeing the attempt, and the tense moments that follows as you wait for the data, or the report that the probe isn't returning. That would add weight to an otherwise ambiguous and easy suicide mission.

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

iakus wrote...
"You are unique.  Not just in ability or experience, but in knowledge.  Other than Saren, you are the only person to survive contact with a Prothean beacon.  You have in your mind the Cipher, the cultural knowledge and perspective of the last race to fight the Reapers.  You have spoken with Vigil and even conversed with Sovereign himself.  In short, you know more about our enemy than anyone else in the galaxy". 

I hate to invoke an Internet meme, but...

IAKUS

Y U NO WORK FOR BIOWARE

While it would be nice to have that in the game, I don't need the game to spell it out for me. 

Maybe not, but if such a scene were necessary I'd rather have the scene break down what exactly makes Shepard worth spending billions violating the laws of nature to bring back from the dead than to simply be told "You're the epitome of what's awesome in humanity"

[Nashiktal]

"Epitome of whats awesome in humanity"

The Raep face?

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Jumping through the omega 4 relay, without testing it, without knowing whats behind it, were no other ship has ever returned from, to stop something you have almost no information on, while using alien technology on board of your ship is logical?


Nice!

You've now proven my point twice.

They wanted to save their crew. Sending probes would give away their attack. Reaper IFF (Identify Friend Foe System for the mentally deficient) Disguises them long enough to get through the relay and defend themselves as necessary.

I just gave you three reasons it's logical. You will continue to find it illogical.

Now what?

How about sending a probe in at ANY point before the kidnapping? We never even knew we needed an IFF until halfway through the game, we never knew the crew was going to be kidnapped, we didn't even know where the hell it led to!

We had no way of knowing we would have had the opportunity to hack a collector ship for data, so thats not an excuse either.

Just the very act of TRYING to gather information would have helped. It would show that shep, or the illusive man are as bright as we keep being told they are. Even if the probes came back in pieces, we could glean information from that. (Were the probes destroyed by weapons fire? Were they simply smashed? Explosions? Did any recoverable data make it?)

Its just so... Terrible. We have several VERY smart people on board the normandy, but we can't even send a probe in?

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

The Shadow Broker managed to get his probes back, why can't the Illusive Man? I would love to think the Illusive Man sent probes through, but we are never told, nay even HINTED. Which is almost as bad. 

You see the probe doesnt even have to succeed. Just seeing the attempt, and the tense moments that follows as you wait for the data, or the report that the probe isn't returning. That would add weight to an otherwise ambiguous and easy suicide mission.

The Shadow Broker got pieces of his probes back.

We are told no ship has ever returned after passing through the Omega 4 Relay. I don't think waiting for a magical probe to return would add anything at all to the tension and mystery sounding the Relay, but maybe that's just me.

How boring would it be to stare at the Omega 4 Relay, waiting for a probe that has like a .000001 chance of returning to come back? To date, only the Shadow Broker has even recovered pieces of his probes. Thousands of ships over thousands of years haven't made it back.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

Modifié par iakus, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:20 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Gatt9 wrote...

Pot...Kettle.  Kettle...Pot.

http://social.biowar...4792/20#8221574

It wasn't all that long ago you were trying to wave off a few centuries of literary technique because you feel the need to defend Bioware's plotholes and didn't like the fact that your post ignored the concept of events occurring off-camera in the examples you tried to cite.

Not sure you understood his points.  Smudboy originally said the ressurection was bad because it didn't explore Shepard's inner self in a magical/dream-like state and was passed over fairly quickly.  Squee points out some major works such as Lord of the Rings (Novel), Matrix, The Mummy and best of all Princess Bride do not follow this assertion.  All very successful stories, which had ressurection and did not explore the character in some magical, personal way via god/dreams.  Point:  There are great stories which don't follow your "few centuries of literary technique" and are considered very well done.

Your counter point did not argue this, save for things could have happened off camera or off the page which did explore these characters in a dream like state.  Soul searching in between scenes, acts and chapters which Squee was ignoring could have taken place.  That brings up the fair question:  If those works don't have to mention soul searching or events because they could have taken place when the screen faded to black, why does Mass Effect 2 not get the same treatment?

Most of Smudboy's arguments about plot holes or bad writing are based off Bioware writers failing to mention or portray every event in detail that may relate to plot or character development.  That players should not have to ever jump to conlusions about how the plot advances (or even mere plot facts) regardless of how small the "plot hole."  Squee didn't ignore your point, he tried to argue that your point didn't support your argument or Smudboy's and actually had the opposite effect.

That most of Smudboy's points about plot holes don't hold water if things can happen off screen that don't have to be explained to the player/reader/viewer.

I don't know how that translates into mere mindless defense of Bioware.

Gatt9 wrote...

TBH,  you're just as bad as your portayl of Smudboy.  Even when confronted with obvious problems,  you ignore them,  and when you can't,  you belittle the concepts.  What you don't do is offer viable counter-points.

All a matter of opinion.  Sometimes we see what we want to see.

[Iakus]

111987 wrote...

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

1) this is a case of "Show, don't tell" or at least "Tell me what you're not showing me"

TIM  "I'm comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega IV relay.  So far every probe we've sent through has been lost.  But don't worry, I'm exploring other avenues as well"

Without that, it sounds like TIM's just blowing off Shepard and turning on ESPN as soon as the conversaton ends.

[Nashiktal]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Jumping through the omega 4 relay, without testing it, without knowing whats behind it, were no other ship has ever returned from, to stop something you have almost no information on, while using alien technology on board of your ship is logical?


Nice!

You've now proven my point twice.

They wanted to save their crew. Sending probes would give away their attack. Reaper IFF (Identify Friend Foe System for the mentally deficient) Disguises them long enough to get through the relay and defend themselves as necessary.

I just gave you three reasons it's logical. You will continue to find it illogical.

Now what?

How about sending a probe in at ANY point before the kidnapping? We never even knew we needed an IFF until halfway through the game, we never knew the crew was going to be kidnapped, we didn't even know where the hell it led to!

We had no way of knowing we would have had the opportunity to hack a collector ship for data, so thats not an excuse either.

Just the very act of TRYING to gather information would have helped. It would show that shep, or the illusive man are as bright as we keep being told they are. Even if the probes came back in pieces, we could glean information from that. (Were the probes destroyed by weapons fire? Were they simply smashed? Explosions? Did any recoverable data make it?)

Its just so... Terrible. We have several VERY smart people on board the normandy, but we can't even send a probe in?

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

The Shadow Broker managed to get his probes back, why can't the Illusive Man? I would love to think the Illusive Man sent probes through, but we are never told, nay even HINTED. Which is almost as bad. 

You see the probe doesnt even have to succeed. Just seeing the attempt, and the tense moments that follows as you wait for the data, or the report that the probe isn't returning. That would add weight to an otherwise ambiguous and easy suicide mission.

The Shadow Broker got pieces of his probes back.

We are told no ship has ever returned after passing through the Omega 4 Relay. I don't think waiting for a magical probe to return would add anything at all to the tension and mystery sounding the Relay, but maybe that's just me.

How boring would it be to stare at the Omega 4 Relay, waiting for a probe that has like a .000001 chance of returning to come back? To date, only the Shadow Broker has even recovered pieces of his probes. Thousands of ships over thousands of years haven't made it back.

Did you not read my post? There is plenty of information to be gleaned off of probes even in pieces. 

We are told no ship has ever returned after passing through the relay eh? WELL THEN LETS JUMP ON IN.  Let us not even try to learn what we can, and since the Illusive Man likes to withhold info, why can't we at least try ourselves?

The shadow broker got his probes back. Boring waiting? With the right atmosphere it would add a LOT to the gravity of the situation. A tense silence as you wait for the probe to return with your information, a dissapointed sigh as it lookes like the probes are not returing... 

then BLAM. Multiple pieces of debries fly back from the relay as the tattered remains return to your  ship. You look onward at the mess with dread, as it only confirms the dangers the reapers hold. But all is not lost, as some of the probes show marked damage from some sort of beam weapon....

Even more so, if shep doesnt do it we could at least see a small scene of cerberus doing it. A report, hell an email as much as I hate those things would have been better than nothing.

[111987]

iakus wrote...

111987 wrote...

But no ship that has every gone through the Omega 4 Relay has returned...so why would a probe do any better?

The Illusive Man said he was comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Who says they didn't send a probe through?

1) this is a case of "Show, don't tell" or at least "Tell me what you're not showing me"

TIM  "I'm comitting all resources to finding a way through the Omega IV relay.  So far every probe we've sent through has been lost.  But don't worry, I'm exploring other avenues as well"

Without that, it sounds like TIM's just blowing off Shepard and turning on ESPN as soon as the conversaton ends.

I guess that's a personal preference. Adding that line in about probes does nothing for me. Knowing that no ship has ever returned is enough for me. But I understand that isn't enough for everyone, and respect that. To each their own