6494 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

111987 wrote...

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

And the Normandy didn't just 'jump' in. Not until we got the IFF. And I've explained MANY times how sending a probe through the relay with the IFF would be completley pointless.

Just as sending a ship full of the galaxy's finest is equally pointless. 

Actually, it wouldn't be pointless. Sending a probe through is useless because first of all, it alerts the Collectors that you're coming. Second, a probe has no means of attack or defense, or manuverability. Sending in the most advanced in warship with a unshackeled, Reaper based AI is your best chance of success. Send all the probes you like; eventually, you're going to have to go through yourself.

If success was guaranteed, it wouldn't be called a Suicide Mission.

If no ship has ever returned for as long as the reapers have existed (The sea of alien vessels of various tech levels allude to this) How would it have been any different with the normandy?

There is no information, for all we know the reapers like to put a giant steel wall in front of the relay that smashes anything that hits it. So much for that advanced warship.

For all we know there  are turrets pointed everywhere in there that can pierce your shields. So much for the dirty dozen.

Its the lack of info, the lack of trying thats the worse. Why can't we go in there with support? Why can't we gather info?

It is not useless to TRY. Especially when so much is at stake. Should the allies not use planes and spy's to gather information in WW2, should the rebel alliance not gather information on how to destroy the death star in star wars? 

It's different with the Normandy because of the IFF...that's made pretty clear in-game.

A steel wall in space, really? I think you're really underestimating the size of space. Even with the IFF, it's not there isn't ANY drift. That wall would have to be massive. And if there was a wall, how would the Collectors get through? That's a really silly point to raise isn't it?

If there are dozens of turrets around the Relay, well that's part of the risk. If that was true though, no probe would ever survive that to return, and even if it did, it wouldn't tell us that there are turrets everywhere. So once again, sending a probe through is useless.

Add on the fact that being in the core is a defence in itself.

[111987]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]111987 wrote...

The probe wouldn't send us any information though because it would be destroyed. A probe can't send information through hundreds of light years back to the Normandy, not to mention the INTENSE radiation likely interfering with the signal. For information to be recovered, the probe would have to return intact...which it wouldn't.[/quote]

Depends on the definition of "destroyed"  If any sort of recording remains salvageable to show what's on the other side, then it doesn't matter how smashed up the probe ends up upon returning, it served it's purpose.

[/quote]
It doesn't take much reasoning to figure out what we're facing on the other side. There's no habitable planets in the galactic core, so that isn't an option. A dyson sphere is even bigger than a planet, so that isn't an option either. If there were a fleet of ships, well, they'd have to be taken on regardless. That's why you send the best ship in the galaxy to take on said fleet. Plus, given what we know about the Collectors, we know they don't have some massive fleet. Otherwise, they wouldn't be sneaking around everywhere; they'd just kick the crap out of everyone with their fleet and take what they want.[/quote]

After the Collector Ship mission, I think we finally know that the Collectors are operating out of a base inteh Core.  What we don't know is what kind of defenses are there.  It's there that a probe would really come in handy.   Rather than strapping a 37 million year of piece of Reaper tech to the really really expensive warship, might have been a better idea to fab a new one, strap it to a stealthy probe and fire it off through the Relay to test it out, no?

[/quote]

But there wouldn't be any salvagable data left...the Occuli would destroy the probes. Or the debris field. And how can a probe be stealthy??? If a probe is left in pieces, I don't think it has any data for you.

[Nashiktal]

As 100k was kind enough to clarify, my "steel wall" and "turrets" was actually in me2! The Normandy was almost destroyed by debris in the initial entrance, (and then later in the chase scene), and the Normandy was attacked and damaged by the occuli, who managed to get INSIDE the ship. (why it didn't go for the cockpit once inside is beyond me)

It's a suicide mission, so you are likely to not make it. However if you die before doing you job, you wasted everything. So you minimize the risks, you get any info you can, you attempt trial and error, and try everything you can to prepare before attempting the suicide mission.

We never see that, we are never told that. All we know is that we jump in blind. We are not briefed in any info we might have gathered outside of "better jump calculations" we don't know the enemies number or strength, (watch the dirty dozen crumble when facing legion of enemies instead of the hundred we saw, watch the Normandy get blown apart by multiethnic cruisers instead of one... (edo says that the one chasing shep is cross referenced to other collector vessels, so they have more).

It's just silly. Shel is n7, garrus is a tactical genius, mordin is a genius period, edi is an ai, and the only thing they can suggest doing is jump?

@iakus oh I don't know, apparently daddy issues make you bulletproof, or so I hear.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

Also, Shepard isn't a Spectre at this point, becoming one again is completely optional. Besides, hes also outside Council space, making his Spectre status null and void.

You do know we are descusing why Shepard was brought back, right?

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

1. So how many people can become a spectre? No much. An extremely small amount can be even considered. Being a Spectre is unique in itself.
2.Your still not understanding..... Though Shepard was at the right place and time to become the hero of the citidel. The reason he/she was even their is because he/she is the best humanity had to offer to be a spectre. Being even consider is unique because a small amount can be qualified, let allow become one. You need to understand what the word unique is.

1. The point is, there is more than one: disqualifying it as one of Shepards unique traits.
2. No, the reason he was there was because he had the Prothean visions, Cipher to get to Ilos and follow Saren. Shepard got there because of the unique character traits he gained in the story and without them he wouldn't have succeeded. Yes, he was competent enough to become a Spectre, but this was not the trait that led to him succeeding in stopping Saren.

[Balek-Vriege]

iakus wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

If its a suicide mission, it stands to reason we should learn all we can to minimize risks no?

Bah, now that's just crazy talk!  Everyone knows you need to spend all your available time working out personal problems!  

Well not all of our time.  We can make the Normandy a super duper frigate too with heavy armor, awsome shields and a Reaper gun.

[100k]

111987 wrote...

The probe wouldn't send us any information though because it would be destroyed. A probe can't send information through hundreds of light years back to the Normandy, not to mention the INTENSE radiation likely interfering with the signal. For information to be recovered, the probe would have to return intact...which it wouldn't.

Actually, it can.



We know that quantum entanglement allows for instantaneous streaming, recording, and communication in the Mass Effect universe. A probe or set of probes with similar technology could easily stream information for at least 10 seconds before being destroyed, either by wreckage, or the oculuses. 

Of course, we could take this one step further an encourage unmanned predator style drones to launch kamikazi style attacks against any hostile forces beyond the relay -- but lets not.

It doesn't take much reasoning to figure out what we're facing on the other side. There's no habitable planets in the galactic core, so that isn't an option.

These are the Reapers you're talking about. Hell, it's possible that they built planet sized super computers inside crushing gravity planets. I wouldn't doubt that  the race of gargantuant ships who made the Citadel, and have lived for possibly billions of years could have a planet over there.

A dyson sphere is even bigger than a planet, so that isn't an option either.

 

Rationale? 

If there were a fleet of ships, well, they'd have to be taken on regardless. That's why you send the best ship in the galaxy to take on said fleet.

...:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

I'm having a hard time taking you seriously now. 

Plus, given what we know about the Collectors, we know they don't have some massive fleet. Otherwise, they wouldn't be sneaking around everywhere; they'd just kick the crap out of everyone with their fleet and take what they want.

You don't know anything about the Reapers. They operate often through stealth and recon (in their own fashion). They don't want the galaxy alerted to their presense. But I'll tell you what I know: the Reapers didn't wipe out the Protheans -- not all of them anyways. They cloned them, enslaved them, and turned them into husks. That's probably a massive population of slaves. 

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

As 100k was kind enough to clarify, my "steel wall" and "turrets" was actually in me2! The Normandy was almost destroyed by debris in the initial entrance, (and then later in the chase scene), and the Normandy was attacked and damaged by the occuli, who managed to get INSIDE the ship. (why it didn't go for the cockpit once inside is beyond me)

It's a suicide mission, so you are likely to not make it. However if you die before doing you job, you wasted everything. So you minimize the risks, you get any info you can, you attempt trial and error, and try everything you can to prepare before attempting the suicide mission.

We never see that, we are never told that. All we know is that we jump in blind. We are not briefed in any info we might have gathered outside of "better jump calculations" we don't know the enemies number or strength, (watch the dirty dozen crumble when facing legion of enemies instead of the hundred we saw, watch the Normandy get blown apart by multiethnic cruisers instead of one... (edo says that the one chasing shep is cross referenced to other collector vessels, so they have more).

It's just silly. Shel is n7, garrus is a tactical genius, mordin is a genius period, edi is an ai, and the only thing they can suggest doing is jump?

@iakus oh I don't know, apparently daddy issues make you bulletproof, or so I hear.

I don't know how else I can say it. Sending probes through WOULD NOT HELP. I have outlined why many times.

We can approximate the size of the Collector forces by their location; there is no planet, or dyson sphere waiting for us. Seriously, who brought up DYSON SPHERE? Those things are bigger than a star!

And so what if there were multiple Collector Cruisers? Let's say some magical probe got through and told us that. So, what, we say 'oh well, we tried' and just give up?

[Nashiktal]

@our last scene

On the contrary I love me2. However I admit it's flaws, and I address them in the hopes it will be improved in me3.

If I'm butthurt then your stagnate. Unless you would prefer we launch ourselves at the reaper fleet with only the normandy. After all, no one has ever beat the reapers, so there is no reason to gather a fleet.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

Also, Shepard isn't a Spectre at this point, becoming one again is completely optional. Besides, hes also outside Council space, making his Spectre status null and void.

You do know we are descusing why Shepard was brought back, right?

Point being that Shepard being a Spectre had nothing to do with his resurrection since he lost it once he died.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

1. So how many people can become a spectre? No much. An extremely small amount can be even considered. Being a Spectre is unique in itself.
2.Your still not understanding..... Though Shepard was at the right place and time to become the hero of the citidel. The reason he/she was even their is because he/she is the best humanity had to offer to be a spectre. Being even consider is unique because a small amount can be qualified, let allow become one. You need to understand what the word unique is.

1) The point being there are other Spectres.  It's an elite group, but Shepard is not unique, as in one of a kind, for being one of them.  The only aspect of it that makes Shepard unique is he's the only human member.

2)  Let me ask this.  What if the Council decided to send a more experienced Spectre after Saren?  Say, Tela Vasir?   She gets the same tips and visits the same places Shepard did in ME1.  What would have happened differently?  

Or say the Alliance decided to take matters into their own hands, and sends Eden Prime survivor Jacob Taylor into the Traverse to find Saren?  Repeat with other characters:  Nihlis, if he had survived.  Captain Anderson.  Garrus, Anyone you could think of.  What did Shepard have that they didn't?  How did he succeed when all the others would certainly have failed?  What made him "unique" in the truest sense fo the word?

[Nashiktal]

Edi Cross references multiple collector vessel signstures to the one that's following you around.

Come on mate, you have proven that you read my posts, why do you ignore them?

[littlezack]

 If they sent Tela, she would never have caught Saren, because she never experienced the Prothean beacon, and she never would have found out he was going to Ilos. So the universe would likely be doomed.

[Iakus]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

1. The point is, there is more than one: disqualifying it as one of Shepards unique traits.
2. No, the reason he was there was because he had the Prothean visions, Cipher to get to Ilos and follow Saren. Shepard got there because of the unique character traits he gained in the story and without them he wouldn't have succeeded. Yes, he was competent enough to become a Spectre, but this was not the trait that led to him succeeding in stopping Saren.

This human understands 

littlezack wrote...

 If they sent Tela, she would never have caught Saren, because she never experienced the Prothean beacon, and she never would have found out he was going to Ilos. So the universe would likely be doomed.

Yes!!!

Modifié par iakus, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Nashiktal]

Also sending the probes is not futile. At least the pieces have returned, we glean why they don't return whole, we learn a little more of what's on the other side. Please don't ignore our posts.

[dreman9999]

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

And the Normandy didn't just 'jump' in. Not until we got the IFF. And I've explained MANY times how sending a probe through the relay with the IFF would be completley pointless.

Just as sending a ship full of the galaxy's finest is equally pointless. 

Actually, it wouldn't be pointless. Sending a probe through is useless because first of all, it alerts the Collectors that you're coming. Second, a probe has no means of attack or defense, or manuverability. Sending in the most advanced in warship with a unshackeled, Reaper based AI is your best chance of success. Send all the probes you like; eventually, you're going to have to go through yourself.

If success was guaranteed, it wouldn't be called a Suicide Mission.

Okay, perhaps you and I are having a different idea of what a "probe" is supposed to do. Nobody in the entire galaxy knows ANYTHING about what is at the other end of that relay. A probe, even a cheaply made probe, would be able to illuminate the previously unseen space. Weapons and armor aren't needed.

Sending the best ship in the galaxy with a Reaper based AI just doesn't cut it -- particularly when that Reaper based AI was still hackable by Reaper tech, and attacked by Collectors. It's proven to be -- if not inefficiant -- then at the least not useful for more than infiltration support. EDI can't hack Reapers. She can't hack Collectors for more than a short time.

Further more, you're still faced with the problem of flying a single tiny warship, possibly armed with a few WMDs, up against a possible planet, dyson sphere, fleet, or base. 

Recon is, and has always been, essential to winning. It's nice to carry around a big gun at night. But without a light, you might as well empty your clip.

1. But the sb probes did not show any light on anything. In fact the iff was a way to spesify the location of the base is a super wide galactic center. Just throwing an iff-less probe like the sb did would  be pointless because they would never land in the right place.
2.A probe with an iff would be cut down way befoar any detail where sent back by the collects attack probes.(The ones that attack your ship.)So it still be pointless out side of tell you you'll be attacked and telling the collector you are about to attack. And your alreay prepared for an attack, surpise or other wise, any way.
3.If it was a fleet then the collector would of sent more than one ship to collect humans.
4. EDI is not facing the reapers, she is facing the collectors who use reaper tech.
Seriously, the collector tech is basicly reaper tech. If she can hack the collector, then she can hack a reaper.

[111987]

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

The probe wouldn't send us any information though because it would be destroyed. A probe can't send information through hundreds of light years back to the Normandy, not to mention the INTENSE radiation likely interfering with the signal. For information to be recovered, the probe would have to return intact...which it wouldn't.

Actually, it can.



We know that quantum entanglement allows for instantaneous streaming, recording, and communication in the Mass Effect universe. A probe or set of probes with similar technology could easily stream information for at least 10 seconds before being destroyed, either by wreckage, or the oculuses. 

Of course, we could take this one step further an encourage unmanned predator style drones to launch kamikazi style attacks against any hostile forces beyond the relay -- but lets not.

It doesn't take much reasoning to figure out what we're facing on the other side. There's no habitable planets in the galactic core, so that isn't an option.

These are the Reapers you're talking about. Hell, it's possible that they built planet sized super computers inside crushing gravity planets. I wouldn't doubt that  the race of gargantuant ships who made the Citadel, and have lived for possibly billions of years could have a planet over there.

A dyson sphere is even bigger than a planet, so that isn't an option either.

 

Rationale? 

If there were a fleet of ships, well, they'd have to be taken on regardless. That's why you send the best ship in the galaxy to take on said fleet.

...:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

I'm having a hard time taking you seriously now. 

Plus, given what we know about the Collectors, we know they don't have some massive fleet. Otherwise, they wouldn't be sneaking around everywhere; they'd just kick the crap out of everyone with their fleet and take what they want.

You don't know anything about the Reapers. They operate often through stealth and recon (in their own fashion). They don't want the galaxy alerted to their presense. But I'll tell you what I know: the Reapers didn't wipe out the Protheans -- not all of them anyways. They cloned them, enslaved them, and turned them into husks. That's probably a massive population of slaves. 

Quantam Entanglement allows lag free communication across any distance, yes. However EDI outlines why QE technology isn't more common. One pair costs as much as a comm bouy. Cerberus doesn't have unlimited resources; they can't just install all of their probes with these things.

The Reapers are not gods. Why would they construct a PLANET, and then the approriatley sized shields for it, when a base is much more efficient, especially given the Collector's population size. The Reapers are powerful, but they have not shown anything even remotley close to having the technology needed to create a planet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere Please read this.

Like I said in another post, even if there are a fleet of ships, it's not like Shepard wouldn't go through. He's not going to get any support from the Council and Alliance. He doesn't have a choice. Sure, would it be smarter to bring a fleet with him? Of course! But that isn't an option.

The Reapers wiped out the vast majority of the Protheans. There aren't billions or millions of Collectors running around. Like I said, if they had those kind of numbers, they could have abducted Earth easily. Don't tell me they wouldn't have abducted Earth, thus gaining the resources they need to complete their Human-Reaper, because they want to be stealthy.

[littlezack]

I think it's kind of a faulty argument, though. Yes, the main thing that makes Shepard unique is his vision, but I think it's a little more than that.

Without his connection to Anderson, he would likely have never gotten off the Citadel.
Without his commanding of the Normandy, he would never have gotten past the Geth blockade.

It's difficult to judge how more or less skilled in battle Shepard is than those other people because the player is in complete control of his battle skill. We know that, physically, Shepard is pretty much an example of a peak human and one of the best soldiers the Alliance has to offer, if not THE best. Could someone else command the respect he did, do the things he did under the same circumstances? Maybe, maybe not. It's supposition.

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

Also sending the probes is not futile. At least the pieces have returned, we glean why they don't return whole, we learn a little more of what's on the other side. Please don't ignore our posts.

I am not ignoring your posts. Sending the probes is futile. Assuming the pieces return at all, which I have said many times is about as likely as winning the lottery, we don't learn anything useful about the Collector's defenses. All we learn is that there are defenses, which is easy enough to figure out without probes.

[Nashiktal]

All of their probes? Why not just one? We are talking about the fate of the human race here, and Cerberus has lots or resources as edi tells you.

If it sheds any light on the threat it's worth it, at least that's tim's mindset. He wasted all those credits to bring back one man, why not use those credits to make the odds for said man better?

[Nashiktal]

Not only that they have defenses, bit what kind.

We have the tech to discover the tiniest of details no matter what it is, and it would be worthless to know what is being shot at us?

Is it explosive damage? Prepare for missiles or mines. Is it the same damage the Normandy took from the cruiser? Tunes shields or figure a better way to dodge. Simply smashed? Figure a way to get past whatever is blocking the relay.

It is not useless, you are discouting potential information in favor of risking expensive assets.

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

All of their probes? Why not just one? We are talking about the fate of the human race here, and Cerberus has lots or resources as edi tells you.

If it sheds any light on the threat it's worth it, at least that's tim's mindset. He wasted all those credits to bring back one man, why not use those credits to make the odds for said man better?

Nashiktal wrote...
Not only that they have defenses, bit what kind.

We have the
tech to discover the tiniest of details no matter what it is, and it
would be worthless to know what is being shot at us?

Is it
explosive damage? Prepare for missiles or mines. Is it the same damage
the Normandy took from the cruiser? Tunes shields or figure a better way
to dodge. Simply smashed? Figure a way to get past whatever is blocking
the relay.

It is not useless, you are discouting potential information in favor of risking expensive assets.

Okay, so the probe goes through, and immediatley is smashed by the wall of debris as it does not have kinetic barriers. Assuming it can send us any information at all before being destroyed, that tells us is that there is a debris field from destroyed ships that have previously tried to pass through the relay. Which can't be avoided anyways, so it doesn't help us at all...

Kinetic barriers deflect everything the same. If it's an explosion or a mine, or cruiser fire, or a laser, or anything else, the kinetic barrier operates the same way. You can't just tune it to improve it's protection against something specific. And how can they magically find a better way to dodge, or magically remove the debris field???

Modifié par 111987, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Becoming a spectre is unique in itself let alone being a first of a speices.
2.That's the thing. He/she was the only one. The council never gave the ok for Shepard to go after Saren on Ilos which his/her disobeying them was key to the victory. No other spectre would be on hand because they neverwas allow to be set there.Wrex never would have been ether. Shepard at that time was the one and only one to do it. Also, Shepard saving the citidel made him/her into an Icon. Shepard became an icon because he/she saved the citidel, not because he/she an icon they were able to save the citidel.

1)  Not unique.  There is more than one Spectre.  Therefore, becoming one is special, exceptional.  But not unique.
2) Now ask yourself, "Why was Shepard so determined to go to Ilos?"

TIM seemed to have the whole icon thing mixed up.  He says that what makes Shepard unique is what he represents, that he's a symbol for humanity.  He doesn't seem to take into account what it was about Shepard that got him there to begin with.  The human behind the legend.  Why no other Spectre would have violated the Council's orders.

1. So how many people can become a spectre? No much. An extremely small amount can be even considered. Being a Spectre is unique in itself.
2.Your still not understanding..... Though Shepard was at the right place and time to become the hero of the citidel. The reason he/she was even their is because he/she is the best humanity had to offer to be a spectre. Being even consider is unique because a small amount can be qualified, let allow become one. You need to understand what the word unique is.

1) The point being there are other Spectres.  It's an elite group, but Shepard is not unique, as in one of a kind, for being one of them.  The only aspect of it that makes Shepard unique is he's the only human member.

2)  Let me ask this.  What if the Council decided to send a more experienced Spectre after Saren?  Say, Tela Vasir?   She gets the same tips and visits the same places Shepard did in ME1.  What would have happened differently?  

Or say the Alliance decided to take matters into their own hands, and sends Eden Prime survivor Jacob Taylor into the Traverse to find Saren?  Repeat with other characters:  Nihlis, if he had survived.  Captain Anderson.  Garrus, Anyone you could think of.  What did Shepard have that they didn't?  How did he succeed when all the others would certainly have failed?  What made him "unique" in the truest sense fo the word?

1.The consept of a Spectre is unique among millitary branch. You have to bea certin type of person to be one. The type of person is unique.
2. The coucil would not send any spectre because they did not want to start a war. Also, the Alliance has the most advance stelth ship. The would not hand it to the coucil. Any othe ship would rish detection. The fact is if Shepard did not go ....No,one would of gone. And the fact Shepard went after being told not to did not stop the coucil from sending anyone else, which they did not. They were never going to send anyone to Illos.What made Shepard unique is that he/she fully understood the events on hand. The council did not and let politics stop them from doing anything about Illos.

[Iakus]

littlezack wrote...

I think it's kind of a faulty argument, though. Yes, the main thing that makes Shepard unique is his vision, but I think it's a little more than that.

Without his connection to Anderson, he would likely have never gotten off the Citadel.
Without his commanding of the Normandy, he would never have gotten past the Geth blockade.

It's difficult to judge how more or less skilled in battle Shepard is than those other people because the player is in complete control of his battle skill. We know that, physically, Shepard is pretty much an example of a peak human and one of the best soldiers the Alliance has to offer, if not THE best. Could someone else command the respect he did, do the things he did under the same circumstances? Maybe, maybe not. It's supposition.

It is all supposition.  But without the visions, none of it would have mattered.  That is what made Shepard unique, that's what allowed him to find Ilos and the Conduit.  It's what allowed him to learn about the Reapers, and ultimately, how he was able to stop Saren and Sovereign.  Without them, Shep could be as tough as a krogan, as powerful a biotic as an asari, a fantastic tactition, hugely popular, and be a great singer, it would not have been enough.  

The reason why Shepard is unique and worth bringing back to face the Reapers is because of the beacon, and everything he learned as a result.

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

Also sending the probes is not futile. At least the pieces have returned, we glean why they don't return whole, we learn a little more of what's on the other side. Please don't ignore our posts.

What are you taking about? The probes had no data and the SB does know who or what destoried them. All you know is that something dangerous is behind the realey and you no that from before the probes were sent because the ship that went before never came back.