6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

If there was more than one collector ship? You plan, sort through tactics, prepare weapons, anything to give you the edge, and if possible gather ships, maybe mercs.

Why do you discount information? Shep is going to go in no matter what, so you might as well ensures he gets as much info as we can.

What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

Get more ships and mount them with the Thanix Cannon. The Turians did it, why can't we?

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

littlezack wrote...

2)  Let me ask this.  What if the Council decided to send a more
experienced Spectre after Saren?  Say, Tela Vasir?   She gets the same
tips and visits the same places Shepard did in ME1.  What would have
happened differently?  

Or say the Alliance decided to take
matters into their own hands, and sends Eden Prime survivor Jacob Taylor
into the Traverse to find Saren?  Repeat with other characters:
 Nihlis, if he had survived.  Captain Anderson.  Garrus, Anyone you
could think of.  What did Shepard have that they didn't?  How did he
succeed when all the others would certainly have failed?  What made him
"unique" in the truest sense fo the word?

 If they sent Tela, she would never have caught Saren, because she never experienced the Prothean beacon, and she never would have found out he was going to Ilos. So the universe would likely be doomed.

AHEM!...underlined bub....

For one, She would never be on eden prime to get the vision, Shepard alone gets that and Saren is place on the hunted list way after. And the vision is key to finding Saren in the end. She would never find him.

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...
What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

No. Tahnix gives N2 cruiser-level firpower. It's not the most perfull weapon out there.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

The Alliance. Teh Council? With the data from the probes, you could convinced them to act.

Information is power. Period.

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

I said DIRECT impact, all the cutscenes are glancing blows grinding against the side. The closest thing to a direct impact in the entire sequence, is the Normandy striking it's wing, which does not hit the body.

The sheild tali puts in turn dirct hits away.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...
You're going in circles. Just stop. Recon > improve attack. It has been key to just about every war in history -- not just of humans, but of all of the races. Every time. End of discussion.

What are you talking about? What is key? I understand mapping out an area of attack is important but not when the enemy know you are attacking and the combat streghtis so unbalance.  If a small man  face a big manwith both of them not knowing the other stregthd, taking time to read the big man s weaknesses will only give the big man time to over power the small man. It's better for the small weaker man to surprise the big stronger man so he can land a strong critcal hit to give the small man and advatage to win the fight.
All though "probes"would do is tell the collectors the margin of error for drift for any one entering the relay to their location. The colllectors would just place attack prode/sdroid(swhat ever) in the location the  probes land in mass so that when the normady finally arrives they are ready to blast it to hell.
You tactic is only good with enemies on equal ground, not one with off balanced odds. If the probes could get in with out the collectors knowing it would be a good plan, but they detect anything that enters, so it would never work and risk the ship to much.

If you don't even know the balance of combat strength, WHY ARE YOU EVEN ATTACKING?
Sending forces into the unknwon - unnecessarily I might add - cannot be considered smart in any way, shape or form. It is the pinnacle of stupidity.

Afraid Colelctors would discover the probe? If  the oppoistion is light, jump the normandy right after that. No time for hte collectors to set up traps. If hte opposition is heavy, then trap the Collectors where they are. Blockade the Omega 4 relay. Put a minefield. Blow it up.

Information gives you OPTIONS. Informations gives you understanding.
Only a moron goes in guns blazing.

[111987]

100k wrote...

111987 wrote...

As I said in other posts, QE tech doesn't make a shred of difference. All we get is a second of footage before we hit the debris field and lose the probe.

Which is more information about the wearabout of the other end of the relay than has every been given in the history of the galaxy. Wreckage on the other side of the relay should be huge news. And in any case we --

This doesn't help us because the Normandy has kinetic barriers which would automatically protect against the debris field, while a probe wouldn't.

Furthermore, there is no proof QE tech can even be installed on something as small as a probe/

You have no reason to doubt Cerberus. If they revived a dead person (days dead), created a super biotic child, almost mastered AI mind control, and rebuilt the best ship in the galaxy, creating a probe with a communcations device should be a joke.

A planet cannot fit in the galactic core; it would be consumed by a black hole or star. And I hope you aren't really claiming that constructing a 45 kilometer space station is evidence of being able to construct a PLANET...are you?

Did you read about the supercomputers within Ploba, yet? I've referenced it several times.

Legion said the closest equivalent was a dyson sphere. That does not mean that their megastructure is the same size as a dyson sphere; it just means it serves a similar function. Come on, how could a dyson sphere fit in the galactic core? Let's be realistic here.

A dyson sphere is the size of a star -- to quote you. The core consists mostly of stars and black holes, right? Can you put two and two together?

I do understand the in-game content.

This doesn't help us because the Normandy has kinetic barriers which would automatically protect against the debris field, while a probe wouldn't.

I know the Collectors have been cloned. I also know there is not a planet's worth of them because a). a planet could not exist in the galactic core --

Shepard discounts this exact statement in ME2 by simply explaining that the Reapers are way too advanced for normal comprehension. Your point is mute.

" Like I said, if they had those kind of numbers, they could have
abducted Earth easily. Don't tell me they wouldn't have abducted Earth,
thus gaining the resources they need to complete their Human-Reaper,
because they want to be stealthy"

I will tell you that. You know why? Because the Reapers come to the galaxy every 50,000 years to harvest all life. Sending in Collectors to do their dirty work isn't part of their plan. 

You haven't brought anything new to your discussion. You've just reused the same argument over and over and over again in different words. When explained how things actually work in ME, you simply ignore those points. Just stop.

I am forced to use the same points because they are not being countered. I assure you, I am not ignoring any points.

How would the knowledge of wreckage helps us plan? Our kinetic barriers protect against the debris, so nothing about the plan would change.

What is your confusion about the probes and kinetic barriers point? Is it common knowledge that probes do have kinetic barriers? Please explain what I am missing here.

I agree that the QE technology could be installed; I was merely mentioning there is no definitive proof saying it 100% could be, as we don't know enough about it. But I'm willing to drop this point.

There is no proof the superstructure on Ploba was created by the Reapers. That is a moot point as there is no evidence suggesting their involvment.

The Reapers, I say again, are not gods. Their greatest known achievement is the construction of a 44 kilometer space station. That is nothing compared to constructing a planet.

"I will tell you that. You know why? Because the Reapers come to the
galaxy every 50,000 years to harvest all life. Sending in Collectors to
do their dirty work isn't part of their plan. "

That is ridiculous. The Collectors were harvesting humans for the Reapers, so they were doing their dirty work for them. If there were millions of Collectors, they would have abducted Earth. The Reapers then could have wiped out the rest of the organic species in the galaxy. What is so hard to understand about this? If there was a planet's worth of Collectors, why wouldn't the Reapers use them to their fullest potential?

[100k]

dreman9999 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I said DIRECT impact, all the cutscenes are glancing blows grinding against the side. The closest thing to a direct impact in the entire sequence, is the Normandy striking it's wing, which does not hit the body.

The sheild tali puts in turn dirct hits away.

You don't understand how a kinetic barrier works -- or what its limitations are. 

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

No. Tahnix gives N2 cruiser-level firpower. It's not the most perfull weapon out there.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

The Alliance. Teh Council? With the data from the probes, you could convinced them to act.

Information is power. Period.

.....The probes say nothing to get the alliance or coucil to help you. The biggest data to get them to help is the collectors attcking freedom' progress and they still barly help you.  And a mass effort would not help. The probes alown can take out a normal ship. It too off sided.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

littlezack wrote...

2)  Let me ask this.  What if the Council decided to send a more
experienced Spectre after Saren?  Say, Tela Vasir?   She gets the same
tips and visits the same places Shepard did in ME1.  What would have
happened differently?  

Or say the Alliance decided to take
matters into their own hands, and sends Eden Prime survivor Jacob Taylor
into the Traverse to find Saren?  Repeat with other characters:
 Nihlis, if he had survived.  Captain Anderson.  Garrus, Anyone you
could think of.  What did Shepard have that they didn't?  How did he
succeed when all the others would certainly have failed?  What made him
"unique" in the truest sense fo the word?

 If they sent Tela, she would never have caught Saren, because she never experienced the Prothean beacon, and she never would have found out he was going to Ilos. So the universe would likely be doomed.

AHEM!...underlined bub....

For one, She would never be on eden prime to get the vision, Shepard alone gets that and Saren is place on the hunted list way after. And the vision is key to finding Saren in the end. She would never find him.

UNDERLINED YOU TWIT.

What part of "she visits the SAME PLACES" do you not comprehend?

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

No. Tahnix gives N2 cruiser-level firpower. It's not the most perfull weapon out there.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

The Alliance. Teh Council? With the data from the probes, you could convinced them to act.

Information is power. Period.

The Thanix Cannon is the most powerful weapon a ship the size of a Normandy can have. They can't install a dreadnaught sized, 1000km gun onto the Normandy...

You really think the Council or Alliance would give you ships based off of a few seconds of footage of a bunch of wrecked ships? That is absurd. If they won't even acknowledge the existence of the Reapers, despite fighting one, you truly believe they would give Shepard and by extension Cerberus, ships?

Come on.

[Nashiktal]

Are you seriously suggesting there are no tactics for engaging multiple hostiles, and that being forewarned about said hostiles would not help any?

I do not mean to insult, but I can see why you would want to jump in blind now. There are tactics and procedures for almost any known scenario in the military, the trick is know the situation to use said tactics.

You can use tactics in the heat of the battle, but I think the military would agree that it's best to know about the sniper before engaging, rather than engaging after a soldier was terminated by said sniper.

[dreman9999]

100k wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I said DIRECT impact, all the cutscenes are glancing blows grinding against the side. The closest thing to a direct impact in the entire sequence, is the Normandy striking it's wing, which does not hit the body.

The sheild tali puts in turn dirct hits away.

You don't understand how a kinetic barrier works -- or what its limitations are. 

You don't understand what type of sheilds Tali installed...

http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
.........
Meaning the sheild tali puts in turn dirct impacts away.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

No. Tahnix gives N2 cruiser-level firpower. It's not the most perfull weapon out there.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

The Alliance. Teh Council? With the data from the probes, you could convinced them to act.

Information is power. Period.

.....The probes say nothing to get the alliance or coucil to help you. The biggest data to get them to help is the collectors attcking freedom' progress and they still barly help you.  And a mass effort would not help. The probes alown can take out a normal ship. It too off sided.

How would you know?
Debris of thousands of aliens ship? A massive hiddden base in the core?

That in itself would be mor tempting than anything else. You can bet your ass any race would want to study both the debris and the base in detail.

And no, it's not too off-sided. An unapgradd Normady can take out all opposition.
Alliance DN > Normandy. Alliance Cruiser = upgraded Normady .. roughly.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:38 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

100k wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I said DIRECT impact, all the cutscenes are glancing blows grinding against the side. The closest thing to a direct impact in the entire sequence, is the Normandy striking it's wing, which does not hit the body.

The sheild tali puts in turn dirct hits away.

You don't understand how a kinetic barrier works -- or what its limitations are. 

You don't understand what type of sheilds Tali installed...

http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
.........
Meaning the sheild tali puts in turn dirct impacts away.

AHEM..kinetic barriers work only againt small object traveling at extreeme velocities.......

These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:40 .

[Fixers0]

dreman9999 wrote...

You don't understand what type of sheilds Tali installed...

http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
.........
Meaning the sheild tali puts in turn dirct impacts away.

And what if you didn't upgrade it?

And this all from the same upgrade terminal in which i have to upgrade medi-gel before it can heal me,.

[100k]

111987 wrote...
I am forced to use the same points because they are not being countered. I assure you, I am not ignoring any points.

How would the knowledge of wreckage helps us plan? Our kinetic barriers protect against the debris, so nothing about the plan would change.

No. They. Don't. Kinetic barriers CANNOT protect anyone from slow moving attacks. Its why melee works in ME. It's why Shepard can sit in a chair while his shields are active. You don't understand the in-game content.

What is your confusion about the probes and kinetic barriers point? Is it common knowledge that probes do have kinetic barriers? Please explain what I am missing here.

How do you know that probes can't have kinetic barriers? A small organic life form like a human can, so why not a probe? Especially when, in your next point, you agree that QE tech could be put on a probe?

There is no proof the superstructure on Ploba was created by the Reapers. That is a moot point as there is no evidence suggesting their involvment.

If it wasn't created by the Reapers, then who? Another younger race? That only helps my point, because it meant that the Reapers were stronger than that race -- thus Reaper tech > planet sized supercomputers. 

The Reapers, I say again, are not gods. Their greatest known achievement is the construction of a 44 kilometer space station. That is nothing compared to constructing a planet.

Actually their greatest creations were the mass relays which they built millions of years ago.  Don't undermine their power.

That is ridiculous. The Collectors were harvesting humans for the Reapers, so they were doing their dirty work for them. If there were millions of Collectors, they would have abducted Earth. The Reapers then could have wiped out the rest of the organic species in the galaxy. What is so hard to understand about this? If there was a planet's worth of Collectors, why wouldn't the Reapers use them to their fullest potential?

They could abduct every human in the Terminus, and not have enough to fill these pods!

They're going to target Earth! 

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...
You really think the Council or Alliance would give you ships based off of a few seconds of footage of a bunch of wrecked ships? That is absurd. If they won't even acknowledge the existence of the Reapers, despite fighting one, you truly believe they would give Shepard and by extension Cerberus, ships?

Come on.

Eh?
Sicne when does sending several ships to assault the collectors equals to handing those ships over to Cerberus?

And why wouldn't they send ships with Shep? The benefits of studying all those wrecked ships alone would be huge.

[111987]

Kinetic barriers work against debris. This is indisputable.

EDI: Our kinetic barriers are not designed to survive against impact with debris hat size Jeff.

Joker: Then I guess it's a good thing we upgraded! We're going in.

He then proceeds to go through the debris field, using kinetic barriers to protect against the debris.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Upgraded WHAT? Armor?

What you say is perfectly disputable. Heck, what you just said doesn't even make sense....

Keep digging yourself in deeper man. Keep diggin.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:47 .

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

Are you seriously suggesting there are no tactics for engaging multiple hostiles, and that being forewarned about said hostiles would not help any?

I do not mean to insult, but I can see why you would want to jump in blind now. There are tactics and procedures for almost any known scenario in the military, the trick is know the situation to use said tactics.

You can use tactics in the heat of the battle, but I think the military would agree that it's best to know about the sniper before engaging, rather than engaging after a soldier was terminated by said sniper.

I understand that. I would what to know more about any enemy,too. But from what we know about the collectors, trying to get that info would be too risky. The only other plan would to get more nomadies at the SR-2's Level  and a crew at the current sr-2's level but that will take time. The reaper would of invaded by that time. Their is a saying striking first is key to winnig a battle. Striking to egerly maybe a key of destruction as well but the sr-2 is already up to the challage with the upgrade. Sometimes risk are nessary and a key to winning battles. A balance game.
Form what I see it, with the collects sensor abilities, it's too risk to map out  in detail with probes. It better to jump to a risk and surpise them. They may know weare attacking but they don't know  the landing zone. The would be the gap to geting though.

[100k]

111987 wrote...

Kinetic barriers work against debris. This is indisputable.

EDI: Our kinetic barriers are not designed to survive against impact with debris hat size Jeff.

Joker: Then I guess it's a good thing we upgraded! We're going in.

He then proceeds to go through the debris field, using kinetic barriers to protect against the debris.

...

I guess so. Forgot about that point. 

[dreman9999]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You don't understand what type of sheilds Tali installed...

http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
.........
Meaning the sheild tali puts in turn dirct impacts away.

And what if you didn't upgrade it?

And this all from the same upgrade terminal in which i have to upgrade medi-gel before it can heal me,.

People die. You know this. The point is you have many way to reduse risk.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
You really think the Council or Alliance would give you ships based off of a few seconds of footage of a bunch of wrecked ships? That is absurd. If they won't even acknowledge the existence of the Reapers, despite fighting one, you truly believe they would give Shepard and by extension Cerberus, ships?

Come on.

Eh?
Sicne when does sending several ships to assault the collectors equals to handing those ships over to Cerberus?

And why wouldn't they send ships with Shep? The benefits of studying all those wrecked ships alone would be huge.

Would those ships be working with Cerberus? Yes. Therefore the Alliance and Council wouldn't do it. The best they could do for Shepard, their most trusted agent whom they owe a personal debt to, was to give him a meaningless title. Actively supporting Shepard with ships and the like would be totally out of character, and bad writing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Are you seriously suggesting there are no tactics for engaging multiple hostiles, and that being forewarned about said hostiles would not help any?

I do not mean to insult, but I can see why you would want to jump in blind now. There are tactics and procedures for almost any known scenario in the military, the trick is know the situation to use said tactics.

You can use tactics in the heat of the battle, but I think the military would agree that it's best to know about the sniper before engaging, rather than engaging after a soldier was terminated by said sniper.

I understand that. I would what to know more about any enemy,too. But from what we know about the collectors, trying to get that info would be too risky. The only other plan would to get more nomadies at the SR-2's Level  and a crew at the current sr-2's level but that will take time. The reaper would of invaded by that time. Their is a saying striking first is key to winnig a battle. Striking to egerly maybe a key of destruction as well but the sr-2 is already up to the challage with the upgrade. Sometimes risk are nessary and a key to winning battles. A balance game.
Form what I see it, with the collects sensor abilities, it's too risk to map out  in detail with probes. It better to jump to a risk and surpise them. They may know weare attacking but they don't know  the landing zone. The would be the gap to geting though.

Rubbish.
How the hell do you know it would be too risky? On what do you base that?

And no, what you say is not the ONLY other plan. The greatest value of information is that tehy grant you options.

Unnecessary risks are always stupid. Charging the relay was NOT NECESSARY.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
What tactics are you suggesting we use against multiple Collector ships, exactly? We already have the most powerful weapon possible in the Thanix Cannon, the best armor and shields; you can't improve the Normandy any further.

No. Tahnix gives N2 cruiser-level firpower. It's not the most perfull weapon out there.

Where are you going to get ships? What mercs are going to sign up for your suicide mission, and how would a merc ship pose any threat to a Collector Cruiser.

The Alliance. Teh Council? With the data from the probes, you could convinced them to act.

Information is power. Period.

The Thanix Cannon is the most powerful weapon a ship the size of a Normandy can have. They can't install a dreadnaught sized, 1000km gun onto the Normandy...

You really think the Council or Alliance would give you ships based off of a few seconds of footage of a bunch of wrecked ships? That is absurd. If they won't even acknowledge the existence of the Reapers, despite fighting one, you truly believe they would give Shepard and by extension Cerberus, ships?

Come on.

Why not? In ME 1 they labeled Saren a traitor based off of a few seconds of an audio file unexamined with only Shepard's testimony to back it up. I really really do.