6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockworm503]

WOW this thread is still going... oh wait I'm not surprised in the least.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
No...when a ship reappears from using the Mass Relay, it doesn't then drift. It is shot in the general direction of the Mass Relay, which is within a few thousand kilometers.

Yes. Shot from point A (the destinatio nrelay) to the its' resting point B.
It still has to pass trough the space between A and B. You don't know where A is, but you know roighly where A is.
If you can mine A, B is irrelevant.

And you didn't counter anything else about how the fleet idea wouldn't work. Please do so.

2-3 frigates and the colector ship is toast. Especially if they attack from different directions.
The Collector Cruiser is slow and ponderous, and if just one closes in, it can unleash the hurt.
Of course, the more ships you use, the better the chances.

Space Combat: Trans-Relay Assaults
The crucial choice for any attack through mass relays
is how to divide the fleet for transit. The accuracy of a relay's
mass-projection depends on the mass being moved and how far it’s going.
Any long distance and/or high mass jump will see "drift". That is, a
ship may be hundreds or millions of kilometers from its intended drop
point, in any direction from the relay.

This clearly means that the ship can be thousands or millions of kilometers behind the relay too, or on top, or below, or to the sides, or diagonally. Mines and blockades can't account for that much space.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

No one said it would protect the ship if it went directly in to the debris. Just that if the debris went dirctly to the ship the new sheilds will protect it.

.......... Which is what happens on the SM.

No it did not.
AGAIN....
Here's it in action...http://www.youtube.c...V-A5a2sQ#t=347s
Here's how it went without it...http://www.youtube.c...jprghyyU#t=179s

Here's the lore explaining it.... http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
........
Pay attention this time.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No it doesn't. It says nothing about large objects.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

Here's it in action...http://www.youtube.c...V-A5a2sQ#t=347s
Here's how it went without it...http://www.youtube.c...jprghyyU#t=179s

Here's the lore explaining it.... http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
........
And your talking about soldier kinetic sheilds now, not ship kinetic  sheilds.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No it doesn't. It says nothing about large objects.

assets.sbnation.com/assets/562900/facepalm_medium.jpg

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No, it just says that the shields can safely protect against small projectiles, which more than likely means that you might have a challenge if you try it against larger things.

There's nothing that says that you can't.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No it doesn't. It says nothing about large objects.

assets.sbnation.com/assets/562900/facepalm_medium.jpg

What? Is anything I said untrue?

Please, this debate has raged on long enough when it's been painfully clear for a while now that you are just wrong.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the debris moves at a certain speed which the shields reacts to, then they can protect against debris as long as they have enough power to do it. 

Just because it's not a projectile doesn't mean it won't trigger the sensors.

But they weren't moving fast, the Normandy was. And it still wouldn't protect against large debris regardless of speed.

The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No it doesn't. It says nothing about large objects.

assets.sbnation.com/assets/562900/facepalm_medium.jpg

What does it matter.

We are saying the new sheilds can do it....Here's it in action...http://www.youtube.c...V-A5a2sQ#t=347s

Youare saying the old sheilds can't ...Here's how it went ...http://www.youtube.c...jprghyyU#t=179s

Here's the lore explaining it.... http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
........
Point is the old version can't and the new version can. This is just apples and oranges.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No, it just says that the shields can safely protect against small projectiles, which more than likely means that you might have a challenge if you try it against larger things.

There's nothing that says that you can't.

If it can safely protect against small fast moving objects this implies protecting against larger ones would be unsafe.

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

If it can safely protect against small fast moving objects this implies protecting against larger ones would be unsafe.

Exactly.

But there's still nothing that says that you can't try and protect yourself against larger objects.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No, it just says that the shields can safely protect against small projectiles, which more than likely means that you might have a challenge if you try it against larger things.

There's nothing that says that you can't.

If it can safely protect against small fast moving objects this implies protecting against larger ones would be unsafe.

But ship sheilds can take large objects.And new system is better at it.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities" Which implies that they CAN'T   protect against large, slow moving onces.

No, it just says that the shields can safely protect against small projectiles, which more than likely means that you might have a challenge if you try it against larger things.

There's nothing that says that you can't.

If it can safely protect against small fast moving objects this implies protecting against larger ones would be unsafe.

That's just the inference you derive from it. There's nothing that says larger objects can't be deflected, especially on a space ship.

Meanwhile, we have in-game evidence showing that space ships can deflect larger objects, especially when upgraded.

There's no contradiction here

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...
The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

We never saw them do it. We actually saw them fail doing it.

[Notlikeyoucare]

" , but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair." Now if what you say is true, chairs would knocked away, but they aren't Kinect Barriers do not function against slow, large moving objects.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
No...when a ship reappears from using the Mass Relay, it doesn't then drift. It is shot in the general direction of the Mass Relay, which is within a few thousand kilometers.

Yes. Shot from point A (the destinatio nrelay) to the its' resting point B.
It still has to pass trough the space between A and B. You don't know where A is, but you know roighly where A is.
If you can mine A, B is irrelevant.

And you didn't counter anything else about how the fleet idea wouldn't work. Please do so.

2-3 frigates and the colector ship is toast. Especially if they attack from different directions.
The Collector Cruiser is slow and ponderous, and if just one closes in, it can unleash the hurt.
Of course, the more ships you use, the better the chances.

3  frigates where? You don't no the landing point. Every ting the ship land you won't know where it isand the collector ship will always know where the ships are first.

No. What makes you think the Collectors would know everything?

Also, a thousand kilometers is nothing in space. A gun fireing at 0.05% can easily have a effective range of several thousand kilometers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...
That's just the inference you derive from it. There's nothing that says larger objects can't be deflected, especially on a space ship.

Meanwhile, we have in-game evidence showing that space ships can deflect larger objects, especially when upgraded.

There's no contradiction here

Full of contradictions.

Show an instance of kinetic barriers protecting from large, slow objects. Where is your example?

[Notlikeyoucare]

Also, in LOTSB the third sqaud member is knocked out by a desk being thrown by the SB. Wouldn't the fields have protected him? See, I have in game evidence too, it is a contradiction.

Modifié par Notlikeyoucare, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

We never saw them do it. We actually saw them fail doing it.

Sigh....
Here's it in action...http://www.youtube.c...V-A5a2sQ#t=347s
Here's how it went without it...http://www.youtube.c...jprghyyU#t=179s

Here's the lore explaining it.... http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
........
They succeded to do it. It's clearyou don't pay attention.

[Someone With Mass]

The sensors are there to detect the fast moving projectiles, as the operator can't activate and deactivate them manually in time.

As long as it has mass, kinetic barriers can block it, given that they have enough strength to do it.

It's how they can keep oxygen from leaking out holes in the hull of the Normandy. They're that dense.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
The codex doesn't actually say that kinetic barriers can't protect against large objects. So there's technically no contradiction here.

We never saw them do it. We actually saw them fail doing it.

Maybe we saw a different scene, but I remember seeing the Normandy's kinetic barriers allowing them to get through a debris field. It lost 10% of its power doing so, but it did indeed do it

And I'll take the fact that you didn't respond to the point we were debating about blockading the Omega 4 Relay as a sign that you withdraw your argument? Kk thanks, much appreciated. It was a good debate, and I truly am not being sarcastic when I say that.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

" , but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair." Now if what you say is true, chairs would knocked away, but they aren't Kinect Barriers do not function against slow, large moving objects.

A chair is neither a large nor a moving object. How is this relevant?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Full of contradictions.

Show an instance of kinetic barriers protecting from large, slow objects. Where is your example?

Even better. You should show us an instance where kinetic barriers aren't reacting to large and slow moving objects.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...
That's just the inference you derive from it. There's nothing that says larger objects can't be deflected, especially on a space ship.

Meanwhile, we have in-game evidence showing that space ships can deflect larger objects, especially when upgraded.

There's no contradiction here

Full of contradictions.

Show an instance of kinetic barriers protecting from large, slow objects. Where is your example?

My example is the Normandy, deflecting large pieces of debris...