6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

Okay, this debate is CLEARLY going nowhere...this is the point where rational, mature people agree to disagree, and leave it at that...

We're talking about kinetic barriers because we were debating whether or not a probe should be sent through the Omega 4 Relay. Some people believe the absence of this probe=plot hole, bad writing, etc...other people, such as myself disagree, arguing that recon via probes would not yield useful data.

Two sides that will likely never come to an agreement. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Kinetic barriers are really irrelevant. One should send a probe either way, barriers or not.
Probes are dirt cheap, you can afford to launch hunderds easily.

And you do realsit that if kinetic barriers can stop debries, that goes AGAISNT your point tha probes are useless?



Also, given that you have no idea what the probe would brign back, how can you then argue that it will not yield any usefull data..when you don't know WHAT that data would be? If you do not know what's on the other side, then you cannot judge that, now can you?

[Notlikeyoucare]

I'm still at a loss as to how Saren was able to pick up Shepard if his Mass Effect fields were active. How did Shpard snap that guy's neck on Miranda's loyalty misson? How did Mordin punch Malon? How did Shepard punch Kolyat? How did Shepard push the merc out of a window?

What, did all of their Mass Effect fields conveniently wear off at just the right moment again?

EDIT: And HOW did Shepard tackle Vasir out of a window? There's no way her shields were down. And why did Shepard take so long to get up from falling? The floor is stationary right?

Modifié par Notlikeyoucare, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:39 .

[Illiandri]

One minute......I got the answer to everybodies questions. IT IS A GAME!!!!

After this dimension shattering revelation about ME2 I assume some of you read LOTR and thought it stupid because they didn't use the eagles to go to mount doom immediately. Saw the Terminator and thought that if a metallic endoskeleton covered in human flesh could make it why not send a nuke covered in human flesh and start Judgement Day early. Read Clipper of the Clouds and thought that the idea of a flying ship is stupid rather than magical.

People need to seriously lighten up.

Modifié par Illiandri, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Guldhun2]

dreman9999 wrote...
]No it did not.
AGAIN....
Here's it in action...http://www.youtube.c...V-A5a2sQ#t=347s
Here's how it went without it...http://www.youtube.c...jprghyyU#t=179s

Here's the lore explaining it.... http://masseffect.wi...y_SR-2#Armament

Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) can be refitted to the Normandy SR-2 (Upgrade, Cost: 15,000 Palladium). The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys.
........
Pay attention this time.

I have some bad news for you dreman9999. Because i actually watched both. And nowhere does it show any deflecting whatsoever with the upgrade. It's the exact same clip, apart from the drive core thing exploding.



Thank you, but please try again.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I find amusement in the fact that this topic essentially boils down to the usual BSN discussion: Paragons vs Renegades, where the former are thoroughly apologetic towards the powers that be (in this case Bioware), while the latter group takes every chance to criticize said powers, the Paragons and their train of thought.

Also, Lotion, some of those examples a couple of pages ago aren't examples of kinetic barriers being hit by large objects, but rather being hit by not sufficiently fast enough objects.

Note, I'm a 90% paragon player. And I'm neither a blind Bio fanboy nor a blind Bio hater.

As far as the examples go - that's the whole point. Kinetic barreirs work agaist small, fast moving objects.
The bigger the object, the slower it is, the less it's able to stop/deflect.

Seen the 20-kilo slug the DN uses? It's small. The bullets in the guns? They are the size of a grain of sand. Yet they travel very, VERY fast.
It's those things that kinetic barriers were made to protect against. The name itself sez is - KINETIC barriers.
Kinetic energy is defined mostly by speed. Ek = mv^2/2

They repulse the object going towards them by basicly pushing it back. Biggers objects have a LOT more momentum, as momentum is defined by mass a lot more. P =mv. And big momentum is a LOT harder to stop.

Understand now?

You're applying real-life science to a setting and situation where it clearly doesn't apply; the rule of thumb in the Mass Effect universe appears to be that objects propelled with the aid of element zero gets blocked, while other stuff doesn't. Simple as that.

Also, could've fooled me about mostly being a Paragon.

Someone With Mass wrote...

http://www.physorg.c...ws67773542.html

FYI: I'm not clicking on any link. If you want to say something, just say it.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:16 .

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...


I have some bad news for you dreman9999. Because i actually watched both. And nowhere does it show any deflecting whatsoever with the upgrade. It's the exact same clip, apart from the drive core thing exploding.



Thank you, but please try again.

Then how come the kinetic barriers' power is decreasing when the ship is going through the debris field if they're not in use?

[DRSH]

Actually I like Mass Effect 2 a lot & I like Smudboy's videos a lot too. He makes some valid points & I like that he has a kinda constructive criticism & not just saying "it's bad". ME2 is still a great game no matter what anyone says, but there's always room for improvement.

[Guldhun2]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Then how come the kinetic barriers' power is decreasing when the ship is going through the debris field if they're not in use?

Easy peasy, you see those sparks flying when the NR2 is scraping against a piece of debris? That's why.






No problem dear.

[Someone With Mass]

Then the shields did their job, because without them, the ship would've sustained a lot more damage.

[Guldhun2]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Then the shields did their job, because without them, the ship would've sustained a lot more damage.

Correct....but....scraping past some piece of debris is not the same is deflecting a direct impact by one. Never are we shown that.

[nelly21]

Also, the kinetic barriers repulse high velocity objects. The Normandy (which was traveling through a debris field and therefore forced to a slower speed) may not have been traveling fast enough and therefore the barriers did not kick in.

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Correct....but....scraping past some piece of debris is not the same is deflecting a direct impact by one. Never are we shown that.

What, did you expect the shield to violently push the debris aside with such force that it flies away or just bounces off the Normandy?

Yeah, that won't happen.

[SuperNova42]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

I'm still at a loss as to how Saren was able to pick up Shepard if his Mass Effect fields were active. How did Shpard snap that guy's neck on Miranda's loyalty misson? How did Mordin punch Malon? How did Shepard punch Kolyat? How did Shepard push the merc out of a window?

What, did all of their Mass Effect fields conveniently wear off at just the right moment again?

EDIT: And HOW did Shepard tackle Vasir out of a window? There's no way her shields were down. And why did Shepard take so long to get up from falling? The floor is stationary right?

Kinetic barriers are designed to deflect projectiles travelling at high speed. Anything like a punch or an arm reaching out to grab you wouldn't activate them because they're moving far too slowly.

The codex entry gives a good description: http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

[Notlikeyoucare]

SuperNova42 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

I'm still at a loss as to how Saren was able to pick up Shepard if his Mass Effect fields were active. How did Shpard snap that guy's neck on Miranda's loyalty misson? How did Mordin punch Malon? How did Shepard punch Kolyat? How did Shepard push the merc out of a window?

What, did all of their Mass Effect fields conveniently wear off at just the right moment again?

EDIT: And HOW did Shepard tackle Vasir out of a window? There's no way her shields were down. And why did Shepard take so long to get up from falling? The floor is stationary right?

Kinetic barriers are designed to deflect projectiles travelling at high speed. Anything like a punch or an arm reaching out to grab you wouldn't activate them because they're moving far too slowly.

The codex entry gives a good description: http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Exactly.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Illiandri wrote...

One minute......I got the answer to everybodies questions. IT IS A GAME!!!!

After this dimension shattering revelation about ME2 I assume some of you read LOTR and thought it stupid because they didn't use the eagles to go to mount doom immediately. Saw the Terminator and thought that if a metallic endoskeleton covered in human flesh could make it why not send a nuke covered in human flesh and start Judgement Day early. Read Clipper of the Clouds and thought that the idea of a flying ship is stupid rather than magical.

People need to seriously lighten up.

The Valar didnt allow it.

How exactly would a nuke help?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I find amusement in the fact that this topic essentially boils down to the usual BSN discussion: Paragons vs Renegades, where the former are thoroughly apologetic towards the powers that be (in this case Bioware), while the latter group takes every chance to criticize said powers, the Paragons and their train of thought.

Also, Lotion, some of those examples a couple of pages ago aren't examples of kinetic barriers being hit by large objects, but rather being hit by not sufficiently fast enough objects.

Note, I'm a 90% paragon player. And I'm neither a blind Bio fanboy nor a blind Bio hater.

As far as the examples go - that's the whole point. Kinetic barreirs work agaist small, fast moving objects.
The bigger the object, the slower it is, the less it's able to stop/deflect.

Seen the 20-kilo slug the DN uses? It's small. The bullets in the guns? They are the size of a grain of sand. Yet they travel very, VERY fast.
It's those things that kinetic barriers were made to protect against. The name itself sez is - KINETIC barriers.
Kinetic energy is defined mostly by speed. Ek = mv^2/2

They repulse the object going towards them by basicly pushing it back. Biggers objects have a LOT more momentum, as momentum is defined by mass a lot more. P =mv. And big momentum is a LOT harder to stop.

Understand now?

You're applying real-life science to a setting and situation where it clearly doesn't apply; the rule of thumb in the Mass Effect universe appears to be that objects propelled with the aid of element zero gets blocked, while other stuff doesn't. Simple as that.

ME fields and kinetic barriers are explained in realtion to real-life sceince. When you explain something, then you have to be consistent with it workings. It's as simple as that.

Applying of science here is perfectly consistent with all database entires and explanatiosn of how things work, and everything obserbved.

Your explnation is contrary to the in-game explanations, as the workings of kinetic barreirs don't say what you just said. You are free to try to invent unsopported theories to explain plot holes and jsutify bad writing to yourself, but teh bad writing remains regardless.

Also, could've fooled me about mostly being a Paragon.

I fool a lot of people. Cause I'm just that good.

[MorrigansLove]

ME2s and DA2s story sucks.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

2)  Let me ask this.  What if the Council decided to send a more experienced Spectre after Saren?  Say, Tela Vasir?   She gets the same tips and visits the same places Shepard did in ME1.  What would have happened differently? 

Actually, I don't think anything would have happened differently. As presented, any character could have successfully achieved what Shepard did, assuming we ignore combat prowess.

Remember one thing: the beacons are not the same as KotOR's star maps, where an arbitrary number are required to locate the Star Forge. Each beacon is intended to be 'complete'. The Eden Prime beacon was simply damaged, preventing it from providing the full message, which Vigil points out.

For success, any character would have to visit:

1) Therum
2) Feros
3) Noveria
4) Virmire

Assuming whatever character did this, as long as they didn't take any monumentally stupid actions, such as killing Shiala with the Cipher, they'll have the complete vision available to them on Virmire. What separates Shepard is that he actually performed these actions, not some other character.

[Fixers0]

Guldhun2 wrote...

I have some bad news for you dreman9999. Because i actually watched both. And nowhere does it show any deflecting whatsoever with the upgrade. It's the exact same clip, apart from the drive core thing exploding.



Thank you, but please try again.

You're totally right, kinetic barriers don't protect against such attacks,  same as why it doesn't make sense that their is a kinetic barrier at the end of the game, because we would have been fried with radiation.

All i can really point as this being yet another Retcon and other prime example of when lore tells one thing and the story ends up saying something entirely different. 

[Notlikeyoucare]

Fixers0 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

I have some bad news for you dreman9999. Because i actually watched both. And nowhere does it show any deflecting whatsoever with the upgrade. It's the exact same clip, apart from the drive core thing exploding.



Thank you, but please try again.

You're totally right, kinetic barriers don't protect against such attacks,  same as why it doesn't make sense that their is a kinetic barrier at the end of the game, because we would have been fried with radiation.

All i can really point as this being yet another Retcon and other prime example of when lore tells one thing and the story ends up saying something entirely different. 

Its also why I call the scene with debris field a plothole since the Kinetic Barriers hold up when they shouldn't. Thus leading to an impossible event that happens by breaking established lore.

[Killjoy Cutter]

On the issue of the kinetic barriers, it just looks like case of where the writers and animators didn't have a full understanding of the mechanics of kinetic barriers as they're supposed to work in the setting, and what that implies for any particular scene or incident.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cutscenes are often filled wiht holes. So I agree on that one. Animators shoudl have been forced to read trough the entire codex several times.

[Il Divo]

Aren't cut-scenes where "rule of cool" moments are most applicable? Similar to how Saren is able to one-shot Nihlus which works better from a visual effect, than having to shoot him five times? 

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

Aren't cut-scenes where "rule of cool" moments are most applicable? Similar to how Saren is able to one-shot Nihlus which works better from a visual effect, than having to shoot him five times? 

Or how Shepard is able to kill Collectors with one hit and fire a Phalanx about eight times without having to reload.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

You're totally right, kinetic barriers don't protect against such attacks,  same as why it doesn't make sense that their is a kinetic barrier at the end of the game, because we would have been fried with radiation.

All i can really point as this being yet another Retcon and other prime example of when lore tells one thing and the story ends up saying something entirely different. 

Yeah, use those "cool" words!

Seriously, the solution for that is quite simple. Don't take the ship near a radiated area and/or seal of the breach.

It does not make it a retcon, since the game never directly told anyone that they're blocking radiation.

No, that's just you spewing out the few words you can use to describe anything you don't like.