6494 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

And ship Kinetic barriers CAN block slow moving objects. The reaper's Kinetic barriers trapped Shrepard and his team inside and made it so the Normandy could not reach them. If the barriers could not stop slow moving objects, they could have just walked out of there, or the Normandy could have slowly passed through the barrier.

Reaper's Kinetic barriers. You see the important word?

Here, i'll help...again.

Reaper's

The fact that the reaper sheildcan do it mean it can be done. Also, the kinetic barrier that incased liara do this, too.
Is a person walking a high level speed?

[Guldhun2]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 01 septembre 2011 - 03:47 .

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, I really can't see how it's a poor narritive just because of something a cutscene showed, which really shouldn't be taken seriously in any way.

It was aiming at squee's videos in general, who also likes to imagine certain things.

I admit some of the things I said were logical conclusions, but show my one thing I "Imagined" and I will show you how the game allows a logical conclusion of what I said to be drawn.

Also, You are right. Shepard starting at the sun is a small plot hole. the fact that you are complaining about this, however, is just sad. It is a game. People play games to see fun things and experience things they could not normally do. Having Shepard starting out at a vast expanse of space and a star is more emotionally impacting than a steel wall. Every fictional story has sacrificed real world logic at some point or another for dramatic effect.

If you are seriously trying to say that such a minor detail is enough to break your suspension of disbelief and honestly ruins the game for you, then you should probably stick to reading non-fiction. 99.9999% of the people who play this game most likely never even thought about something so nit picky, and even if they did, it did not break the game for them.

Actually its not a plothole, it has nothing to with the plot, its just impossibly stupid. Its one thing to have my suspension of disbelief broken by impossible occurances that exist outside of the lore (Shepards resurrection) and its another to gave an impossible event happen by the writer contradicting themselves and their own established lore in order to make the plot continue.

The writers put no thought into this. Their entire MO this game is if they need something to happen or not happen, just make it so: no thought, no logic, just do it. Simply put, if the writers think this quality writing, that I should actually PAY to play this, they are lying.

Then you clearly don't understand the game.....But that's why your here anyway.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Okay, this debate is CLEARLY going nowhere...this is the point where rational, mature people agree to disagree, and leave it at that...

We're talking about kinetic barriers because we were debating whether or not a probe should be sent through the Omega 4 Relay. Some people believe the absence of this probe=plot hole, bad writing, etc...other people, such as myself disagree, arguing that recon via probes would not yield useful data.

Two sides that will likely never come to an agreement. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Kinetic barriers are really irrelevant. One should send a probe either way, barriers or not.
Probes are dirt cheap, you can afford to launch hunderds easily.

And you do realsit that if kinetic barriers can stop debries, that goes AGAISNT your point tha probes are useless?



Also, given that you have no idea what the probe would brign back, how can you then argue that it will not yield any usefull data..when you don't know WHAT that data would be? If you do not know what's on the other side, then you cannot judge that, now can you?

A probe with QE technology is the only kind of probe that could possibly bring back data, right? Which mean's they are unbelievably expensive.

A probe would not have kinetic barriers even close to that of a ship, so debris would be a problem for them. This is working under the assumption they even have kinetic barriers, which is unlikely to begin with.

The entire point of my argument is that Shepard and co know that no ships has ever returned form the Omega 4 Relay, so they would then reason that no probe would return either. If you do Lair of the Shadow Broker, you know that only pieces of probes were recovered, and that was miraculous in the first place. Therefore it's pretty easily reasoned that sending a probe would be a pointless waste of time.

As for this kinetic barrier debate, which I can't believe is still going on...the ship goes through the debris field, and goes form 40% shield capacity to 30% shield capacity. This proves that the shields were used to deflect at least some of the debris.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

Your not getting the point. The  fact that the reaper barrier can do that means it's possible to do so. Also, the barrier o that incase Liara in ME1 does the same thing, too.

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...


Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

What part of "based on the same technology" didn't you understand?

[Guldhun2]

dreman9999 wrote...
Your not getting the point. The  fact that the reaper barrier can do that means it's possible to do so. Also, the barrier o that incase Liara in ME1 does the same thing, too.

Nobody said it's impossible. But that kinetic barriers (not the reaper one) right now in ME can not do that. Why would the Reapers give them exactly the same denfence tech they use.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

[SpiffySquee]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

Burden of proof is on you. It is called a kinetic barrier. Kinetic barriers are shown to have certain traits. Anything called a Kinetic barrier should follow these traits until proved otherwise. That why we have names. You want to say that a reaper Kinetic barrier is somehow different than every other kinetic barrier then prove it. Until then a kinetic barrier is a kinetic barrier.

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Until you show me proof that they work any differently

YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

Yeah, because Sovereign himself claims that Reaper technology was the basis for everything we encounter in Mass Effect. Thus, we can conclude that they "work" the same, even if ours are less powerful.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, I really can't see how it's a poor narritive just because of something a cutscene showed, which really shouldn't be taken seriously in any way.

It was aiming at squee's videos in general, who also likes to imagine certain things.

I admit some of the things I said were logical conclusions, but show my one thing I "Imagined" and I will show you how the game allows a logical conclusion of what I said to be drawn.

Also, You are right. Shepard starting at the sun is a small plot hole. the fact that you are complaining about this, however, is just sad. It is a game. People play games to see fun things and experience things they could not normally do. Having Shepard starting out at a vast expanse of space and a star is more emotionally impacting than a steel wall. Every fictional story has sacrificed real world logic at some point or another for dramatic effect.

If you are seriously trying to say that such a minor detail is enough to break your suspension of disbelief and honestly ruins the game for you, then you should probably stick to reading non-fiction. 99.9999% of the people who play this game most likely never even thought about something so nit picky, and even if they did, it did not break the game for them.

Actually its not a plothole, it has nothing to with the plot, its just impossibly stupid. Its one thing to have my suspension of disbelief broken by impossible occurances that exist outside of the lore (Shepards resurrection) and its another to gave an impossible event happen by the writer contradicting themselves and their own established lore in order to make the plot continue.

The writers put no thought into this. Their entire MO this game is if they need something to happen or not happen, just make it so: no thought, no logic, just do it. Simply put, if the writers think this quality writing, that I should actually PAY to play this, they are lying.

Then you clearly don't understand the game.....But that's why your here anyway.

No, I understand the game. The writers apparently don't understand their own universe.

[Guldhun2]

Someone With Mass wrote...
What part of "based on the same technology" didn't you understand?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Type_69/79
is based on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-62

While the first one might look the same, it's not even close to performing the same.


Copying =/= based on

Il Divo wrote...

Yeah, because Sovereign himself claims
that Reaper technology was the basis for everything we encounter in Mass
Effect. Thus, we can conclude that they "work" the same, even if ours
are less powerful.

Several pages ago you said not to believe Sovereigns every word..unless it helps Il Divos arguments. Plus, look above.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:01 .

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your not getting the point. The  fact that the reaper barrier can do that means it's possible to do so. Also, the barrier o that incase Liara in ME1 does the same thing, too.

Nobody said it's impossible. But that kinetic barriers (not the reaper one) right now in ME can not do that. Why would the Reapers give them exactly the same denfence tech they use.

Yes, you were. You stated over and over again the sheilds can't do that. We give examples and suddenly  you stated that you never ment it was impossible? The fact that it's not impossible is all that needed. In the end it can be done. That's all the matter to this argument. Add on the fact that the protheans did it as well and we got the tech from them mean we can do it, too, just not as strong as the reapers can make them. But the point is, we can do it.

It's even in the explination of mass effect feilds...
http://masseffect.wi...ss_effect_field

In space, low-mass fields allow FTL travel and inexpensive surface-to-orbit transit. High-mass fields create artificial gravity and push space debris away from starships. In manufacturing, low-mass fields permit the creation of evenly-blended alloys, while high mass compaction creates dense, sturdy construction materials.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:01 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
What part of "based on the same technology" didn't you understand?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Type_69/79
is based on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-62

While the first one might look the same, it's not even close to performing the same.


Copying =/= based on

Yet they still perform the same task

[SpiffySquee]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

[Guldhun2]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Yet they still perform the same task

 If it's in the name, "shield". I suspect it is suppose to shield against something. Why would the reapers give the organics the excact same shielding tech they use?

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Type_69/79
is based on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-62

While the first one might look the same, it's not even close to performing the same.


Copying =/= based on

Il Divo wrote...

Yeah, because Sovereign himself claims
that Reaper technology was the basis for everything we encounter in Mass
Effect. Thus, we can conclude that they "work" the same, even if ours
are less powerful.

Several pages ago you said not to believe Sovereigns every word..unless it helps Il Divos arguments. Plus, look above.

The part about them being the pinnacle of evolution is the part you can ignore, because that's just bragging.

When Sovereign says that they built the mass relays and the Citadel (there are many other things in the games that supports this too, like the scanning of the keepers or the Alpha relay) that's something you might want to take into consideration.

Sovereign also had a massive element zero core, which most ships do, but in smaller sizes. Sovereign even used a mass relay which any other ship could.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, I really can't see how it's a poor narritive just because of something a cutscene showed, which really shouldn't be taken seriously in any way.

It was aiming at squee's videos in general, who also likes to imagine certain things.

I admit some of the things I said were logical conclusions, but show my one thing I "Imagined" and I will show you how the game allows a logical conclusion of what I said to be drawn.

Also, You are right. Shepard starting at the sun is a small plot hole. the fact that you are complaining about this, however, is just sad. It is a game. People play games to see fun things and experience things they could not normally do. Having Shepard starting out at a vast expanse of space and a star is more emotionally impacting than a steel wall. Every fictional story has sacrificed real world logic at some point or another for dramatic effect.

If you are seriously trying to say that such a minor detail is enough to break your suspension of disbelief and honestly ruins the game for you, then you should probably stick to reading non-fiction. 99.9999% of the people who play this game most likely never even thought about something so nit picky, and even if they did, it did not break the game for them.

Actually its not a plothole, it has nothing to with the plot, its just impossibly stupid. Its one thing to have my suspension of disbelief broken by impossible occurances that exist outside of the lore (Shepards resurrection) and its another to gave an impossible event happen by the writer contradicting themselves and their own established lore in order to make the plot continue.

The writers put no thought into this. Their entire MO this game is if they need something to happen or not happen, just make it so: no thought, no logic, just do it. Simply put, if the writers think this quality writing, that I should actually PAY to play this, they are lying.

Then you clearly don't understand the game.....But that's why your here anyway.

No, I understand the game. The writers apparently don't understand their own universe.

Says the man who did not know  that ships shields had an on/off switch.

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Yet they still perform the same task

 If it's in the name, "shield". I suspect it is suppose to shield against something. Why would the reapers give the organics the excact same shielding tech they use?

Why would they give us the relays? Or the Citadel? It's the exact same concept, except we can't manipulate any of these things as well as they do.

[Il Divo]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The part about them being the pinnacle of evolution is the part you can ignore, because that's just bragging.

When Sovereign says that they built the mass relays and the Citadel (there are many other things in the games that supports this too, like the scanning of the keepers or the Alpha relay) that's something you might want to take into consideration.

Sovereign also had a massive element zero core, which most ships do, but in smaller sizes. Sovereign even used a mass relay which any other ship could.

This.

"We have no beginning, we have no end" is a throw-away line. It sounds bad ass, but it's not meant to be taken in a literal context. If Sovereign says that our technology is based on their technology (and the narrative supports this), we can take it to be true.

No, I don't think Sovereign gave us the exact same tech which the Reapers use, since ours is less powerful.But it all relies on the fundamentals of Mass Effect, otherwise it would not be "their technology".

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Yet they still perform the same task

 If it's in the name, "shield". I suspect it is suppose to shield against something. Why would the reapers give the organics the excact same shielding tech they use?

Some one need to  replay ME1. Also, the protheans had sheild like like that. Every sheild that's not triggered bey fast moving objects is like that. The reaper sheilds are just stronger.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

Guldhun2 wrote...

 If it's in the name, "shield". I suspect it is suppose to shield against something. Why would the reapers give the organics the excact same shielding tech they use?

They gave the organics the basic foundation of mass effect technology while keeping the stronger and more advanced stuff for themselves. 

It's how they can use anything the organics might come up with that they could thrive of. Which is probably why they're harvesting technology as well as organics. They can keep the advancements and improve them over the years.

[Notlikeyoucare]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

[aznricepuff]

 Can someone explain to me why anybody would assume that kinetic barriers could deflect fast-moving objects but not slow-moving ones? All we're talking about is accelerating masses. It takes more force and energy to deflect a mass traveling at high velocity than to deflect an equal mass traveling at low velocity. And if the argument is that there's some kind of sensor or trigger that only fires when detecting fast-moving objects, then wouldn't it make sense for that sensor to be adjustable or simply turned off so that barriers could deflect objects moving at any arbitrary speed?

And if you want to talk about stuff that doesn't make sense. How about talking about how mass effect fields allow for FTL travel? Reducing a ship's mass to the point where accelerating it to FTL speeds is possible? There's no limit where if an object's mass is less than that limit it can go FTL. It takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate ANY mass to the speed of light.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

But the Normandy is moving very fast anyways, so according to your logic, the shields should still work.

None of what you've said fails to address this fact; as the Normandy does through the debris field, its kinetic barriers drop from 40% to 30%, meaning they shields were being used to deflect debris so a certain extent.

Yes or no?