6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

aznricepuff wrote...

 Can someone explain to me why anybody would assume that kinetic barriers could deflect fast-moving objects but not slow-moving ones? All we're talking about is accelerating masses. It takes more force and energy to deflect a mass traveling at high velocity than to deflect an equal mass traveling at low velocity. And if the argument is that there's some kind of sensor or trigger that only fires when detecting fast-moving objects, then wouldn't it make sense for that sensor to be adjustable or simply turned off so that barriers could deflect objects moving at any arbitrary speed?

It is possible as the Geth shields in Mass Effect 1 and the Shadow Broker's shields in Mass Effect 2 both demonstrate.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

We just went over this....http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_effect_field

In space, low-mass fields allow FTL travel and inexpensive surface-to-orbit transit. High-mass fields create artificial gravity and push space debris away from starships. In manufacturing, low-mass fields permit the creation of evenly-blended alloys, while high mass compaction creates dense, sturdy construction materials.

Also, ship sheilds are different from soldier sheilds. They are triggered by speed for safety of the wearer. Nothing is stopping a barrier to say on all the time and stopping everything. Like in ME1 when you save liara from being incased in a mass effect sheild.... You could not walk through it.

[SpiffySquee]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

the shields of armor are designed that way on purpose. The codex also states that kinetic barriers can push away space debris. It did not say "only fast moving space debris"  Liara also uses a biotic barrier (same thing as a kinetic barrier except using element zero) to block flying glass. But you simply ignore all of this to keep you belief that the writers are just bad.

[dreman9999]

aznricepuff wrote...

 Can someone explain to me why anybody would assume that kinetic barriers could deflect fast-moving objects but not slow-moving ones? All we're talking about is accelerating masses. It takes more force and energy to deflect a mass traveling at high velocity than to deflect an equal mass traveling at low velocity. And if the argument is that there's some kind of sensor or trigger that only fires when detecting fast-moving objects, then wouldn't it make sense for that sensor to be adjustable or simply turned off so that barriers could deflect objects moving at any arbitrary speed?

And if you want to talk about stuff that doesn't make sense. How about talking about how mass effect fields allow for FTL travel? Reducing a ship's mass to the point where accelerating it to FTL speeds is possible? There's no limit where if an object's mass is less than that limit it can go FTL. It takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate ANY mass to the speed of light.

Mass effect feilds are a big deux ex machina for technolgy and the physic explaining it does not exsists.

[Sgt Stryker]

Fixers0 wrote...

Excuse me, A kintec barriers is incapable of doing anything behind protecting against objects moving at rapid velocities, Now Shepad stars into a star, which is very close comparing it to the other ones behind it, Would't that have fried him?

Do you see Shepard getting blinded or fried by that star? No. Therefore the logical conclusion is that the star does not output radiation of high enough intensity to be harmful. Of course, that would be the in-universe explanation. The out-of-universe explanation can be "lolplotholeretcon", if you choose to go that way, that is.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

But the Normandy is moving very fast anyways, so according to your logic, the shields should still work.

None of what you've said fails to address this fact; as the Normandy does through the debris field, its kinetic barriers drop from 40% to 30%, meaning they shields were being used to deflect debris so a certain extent.

Yes or no?

Suposition . Everything that has been said about kinetic barriers says that they deflect objects based on their speed, not the speed of the user.

But thats exactly what I'm saying, one minute it can't the next minute it can. The kinetic barriers are simply plot devices that are, whatever the plot needs them to be at any given moment.

[Sgt Stryker]

aznricepuff wrote...

 Can someone explain to me why anybody would assume that kinetic barriers could deflect fast-moving objects but not slow-moving ones? All we're talking about is accelerating masses. It takes more force and energy to deflect a mass traveling at high velocity than to deflect an equal mass traveling at low velocity. And if the argument is that there's some kind of sensor or trigger that only fires when detecting fast-moving objects, then wouldn't it make sense for that sensor to be adjustable or simply turned off so that barriers could deflect objects moving at any arbitrary speed?

I don't see why not. A kinetic barrier operates by quickly activating a repulsive mass effect field when a "dangerous object" is detected by the hardsuit's (or starship's) onboard computer. Why can't that computer be configured to count a large piece of space debris as a "dangerous object"?

[Someone With Mass]

Yes, the shields on a soldier and those on ships works on the same principal, but that doesn't mean that there can't be different versions of them.

If mass effect fields can be adjusted so they can block air (i.e, being on at all times), I think they can be adjusted to block slow moving objects.

It's the sensors that are triggering the activation of the shields. I think the pilot or anyone else can manually activate the shields in case there's a need for it.

If mass effect fields can be so dense to the point where they block air ( and they can) I think they can be adjusted to keep people/things/debris/whatever out. Otherwise, biotic attacks would just fly right through people.

[Notlikeyoucare]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

the shields of armor are designed that way on purpose. The codex also states that kinetic barriers can push away space debris. It did not say "only fast moving space debris"  Liara also uses a biotic barrier (same thing as a kinetic barrier except using element zero) to block flying glass. But you simply ignore all of this to keep you belief that the writers are just bad.

Wrong. They support my argument, I'm using them. multiple people can punch people, grab them, whatever, and the barriers do nothing, and we are told that they work exactly the same on armor or ship. So which is it? Can they deflect everything small, large, slow, fast, or not? The answer is neither they work when the plot needs them to or not.

And where in my post did I say " only fast moving space debris"? Read it again

[SpiffySquee]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Suposition . Everything that has been said about kinetic barriers says that they deflect objects based on their speed, not the speed of the user.

But thats exactly what I'm saying, one minute it can't the next minute it can. The kinetic barriers are simply plot devices that are, whatever the plot needs them to be at any given moment.

the writers probably figured that most people were smart enough to realize though the codex entries, application of mass effect fields and visual examples that Kinetic barriers have different levels and settings. Hell, they even state it in the codex where they talk about different level fields doing different things.

Considering that most people never complain about this silly argument, that the writers were right. They can't account for people who refuse to connect even the simplest of dots.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

But the Normandy is moving very fast anyways, so according to your logic, the shields should still work.

None of what you've said fails to address this fact; as the Normandy does through the debris field, its kinetic barriers drop from 40% to 30%, meaning they shields were being used to deflect debris so a certain extent.

Yes or no?

Suposition . Everything that has been said about kinetic barriers says that they deflect objects based on their speed, not the speed of the user.

But thats exactly what I'm saying, one minute it can't the next minute it can. The kinetic barriers are simply plot devices that are, whatever the plot needs them to be at any given moment.

No, every thing about kinetic barrier say a soldiers kinetic barrier is  triggered by speed to ensure safety of use on and off the battle feild.
Nothing state slow moving object can't move though it, just on a soldier sheilds it can't turn it on. It was already shown in ME1 when you save liara. She is trapped in a barrier that you can't walk through.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Are different how? Show me the specs and I will give you validity. No Specs? awwww...

Mass effect tech is based off of Reaper tech remember? Sure they are stronger, but nothing says they work any differently. Until you show me proof that they work any differently, you are just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Until you show me proof that they work any differently


YET WITHOUT PROOF YOU SAY THEY WORK THE SAME.

But that isn't the point, the reason they couldn't walk back is because the plot demanded it. It doesn't matter to to the writers if kinetic barriers would ACTUALLY stop them. The plot needs kinetic barriers to stop slow moving, large, objects, so it does.

So... No the reason they could not walk back is because the Kinetic barrier would not let them. If you want to ignore all the facts and continue to scream Bioware just sucks, by all means continue. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

* Sigh * 

"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid
velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous
projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away
their chair.
"

" Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
"

Yet many times the opposite has happend. If Kinetic barriers deflected large, slow moving, objects the chair would be knocked away. Its right there in the codex. And no don't tell me the starship can deflect "space debris" since their speed and size are ambiguous.

the shields of armor are designed that way on purpose. The codex also states that kinetic barriers can push away space debris. It did not say "only fast moving space debris"  Liara also uses a biotic barrier (same thing as a kinetic barrier except using element zero) to block flying glass. But you simply ignore all of this to keep you belief that the writers are just bad.

Wrong. They support my argument, I'm using them. multiple people can punch people, grab them, whatever, and the barriers do nothing, and we are told that they work exactly the same on armor or ship. So which is it? Can they deflect everything small, large, slow, fast, or not? The answer is neither they work when the plot needs them to or not.

And where in my post did I say " only fast moving space debris"? Read it again

No, they don't. Nothing state a that sheild can't protect from slow moving object.
It's states...

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

..............
.... Nothing there states it can't stop slow moving objects. Just temperatures, toxins and radiation.

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Wrong. They support my argument, I'm using them. multiple people can punch people, grab them, whatever, and the barriers do nothing, and we are told that they work exactly the same on armor or ship. So which is it? Can they deflect everything small, large, slow, fast, or not? The answer is neither they work when the plot needs them to or not.

And where in my post did I say " only fast moving space debris"? Read it again

Again, the kinetic barriers on soldiers are designed to absord/deflect bullets, while those on ships can be used for more than just that.

Ships have more use of the versatility of the kinetic barriers. Soldiers don't.

[Sgt Stryker]

Soldiers need to be able to breathe, eat, drink, use the bathroom, sit on chairs, and hold objects with their hands, all without their kinetic barriers interfering with any of that. Hence why soldier's barriers only trigger against incoming fast-moving objects. Starships don't have to worry about any of these things. Granted, if a dude in a space suit decided to punch a starship, it would probably be a big waste of energy to repel that with a kinetic barrier, but you get my point.

EDIT: I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. What about the giant kinetic barrier protecting the Prothean dig site in the last Hammerhead mission? I think we can finally conclude that kinetic barriers can indeed be configured to stop macroscopic, slow moving objects. You wanted proof? There it is.

(And if you think that debris was approaching the Normandy slower than you can approach the barrier in the Hammerhead, then you're a lost cause.)

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:01 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Fixers0 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'd imagine that the shields are tuneable to some degree...

Yeah i imagine that shep could use this brain once in a while.

Imagining things isn't going to fix Retcons or a poor narative, in fact that makes things even worse as somehow speculations on boards is now required to explain what happend in the game.

You misunderstand. 

If kinetic barriers are tuneable to hold in air, or block particle radiation, or deaden the impact of large objects against a ship, it's a much simpler and more ellegant answer, when compared to all the wailing and nashing of teeth and thick-headedness that's going back and forth on this thread. 

And since we've seen kinetic barriers do all those things...

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

No, they don't. Nothing state a that sheild can't protect from slow moving object.
It's states...

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

..............
.... Nothing there states it can't stop slow moving objects. Just temperatures, toxins and radiation.

And given that particle radiation is just very very tiny object moving at very very high speeds, even that could be blocked theoretically. 

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Do you see Shepard getting blinded or fried by that star? No. Therefore the logical conclusion is that the star does not output radiation of high enough intensity to be harmful. Of course, that would be the in-universe explanation. The out-of-universe explanation can be "lolplotholeretcon", if you choose to go that way, that is.

Sure just keep inventing things up from which you have no evidence of.

But do me a favor a watch this video from about 12:00.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Soldiers need to be able to breathe, eat, drink, use the bathroom, sit on chairs, and hold objects with their hands, all without their kinetic barriers interfering with any of that. Hence why soldier's barriers only trigger against incoming fast-moving objects. Starships don't have to worry about any of these things. Granted, if a dude in a space suit decided to punch a starship, it would probably be a big waste of energy to repel that with a kinetic barrier, but you get my point.

EDIT: I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. What about the giant kinetic barrier protecting the Prothean dig site in the last Hammerhead mission? I think we can finally conclude that kinetic barriers can indeed be configured to stop macroscopic, slow moving objects. You wanted proof? There it is.

(And if you think that debris was approaching the Normandy slower than you can approach the barrier in the Hammerhead, then you're a lost cause.)

Or the kinetic barriers protecting the shield generators of the geth cannon in Overlord. Can't drive through those. They can even damage you.

Then agin, you are driving the Paperhead...

[Fixers0]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

EDIT: I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. What about the giant kinetic barrier protecting the Prothean dig site in the last Hammerhead mission? I think we can finally conclude that kinetic barriers can indeed be configured to stop macroscopic, slow moving objects. You wanted proof? There it is.

The Hammerhead should have been able to just fly through it, same way as shepard walked right to oker through a shield in the opening mission but for some reason could not walk through the shield during arrival/

It's again yet another inconsistancy for gameplay convienance.

Modifié par Fixers0, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:33 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

The Hammer should have been able to just fly through it, same way as shepard walked right through joker through a shield in the opinion mission but for some reason could not walk through the shield during arrival/

It's again yet another incosistancy for gameplay convienance.

It's not a incosistency.

Shields can be adjusted. DEAL WITH IT.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Fixers0 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

EDIT: I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. What about the giant kinetic barrier protecting the Prothean dig site in the last Hammerhead mission? I think we can finally conclude that kinetic barriers can indeed be configured to stop macroscopic, slow moving objects. You wanted proof? There it is.

The Hammerhead should have been able to just fly through it, same way as shepard walked right through joker through a shield in the opinion mission but for some reason could not walk through the shield during arrival/

It's again yet another inconsistancy for gameplay convienance.

Spot on. Plot Triggered Shields.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's not a incosistency.

Shields can be adjusted. DEAL WITH IT.

Give me concrete proof from within the lore.

Repeat after me:
Conjecture is Bad.

Modifié par Fixers0, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:32 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's not a incosistency.

Shields can be adjusted. DEAL WITH IT.

Give me concrete proof from within the lore.

Remember the shields that were blocking Shepard on Feros and Ilos in ME1? I do.

Also, the derelict Reaper had its barriers up so you couldn't leave until they were down.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's not a incosistency.

Shields can be adjusted. DEAL WITH IT.

Give me concrete proof from within the lore.

Remember the shields that were blocking Shepard on Feros and Ilos in ME1? I do.

Also, the derelict Reaper had its barriers up so you couldn't leave until they were down.

But that was a plothole/retcon

[Sebbe1337o]

If they had named Kinetic Barriers "Momentum Barriers" then that would make sense, because the Hammerhead must wheigh tonnes, BUT then the barrier wouldn't stop bullets, since they have less momentum than a jogging human being.



EDIT: But then, since shields doesn't exist in real life since energy, no matter in what form, can't take physical shape and stop bullets/people/whatever, all scifi in the world is unrealistic. And not just about the shields, there's plenty of stuff in scifi that can't be explained, it just is there. So it's just stupid to talk about stuff that is badly made when it doesn't exist in the real world.


On the other hand, when something that breaks the laws of physics that ACTUALLY EXISTS, then it's okay. I know this one time in Stargate Atlantis, the engines on a spaceship dies and the ship slows down, lol. Epic fail. I love Stargate, but epic fail none the less.

Modifié par Sebbe1337o, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:44 .