6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

 Oy I leave for a few hours and we get caught up in kinetic barriers?

Okay, this i sall I'll say on it.  The way I see it...

The effectiveness of the barriers depends on both the mass and speed of the incoming object.  SLower objects can pass through the barrier.  Larger objects can overload it.

 In the case of the Normandy going through the debris field, I think that since the Normandy itself was moving very fast (it was being chased by Occuli after all) the barriers could still prove effective against the dbris.  It's just in this case it was a fast moving barrier hitting slower moving objects.  This makes sense in a way, since ships need some sort of protection against micrometeorite hits and other space debris.  I could easily see kinetic barriers being used for that.  THe debris field was the same thing, but order of magnitude larger.

Of course, the chunks in teh debris field are much much lasrger than standard debris.  EDI warns of this.  So we use Tali's upgradede shields.  From what I understand, they don't use the standard brute-force method of stopping or repelling objects, but deflect them off to one side.  Less energy used, but more com[plicated and requires the emitters to work perfectly in sync.  I'm sure someone more familiar with physics or engineering could explain it better, but compare it to Ashley Williams being a "straight up puncher" to her sister Sarah being an expert at aikido. 

How did the Occulus get into the cargo bay?  The way I figure it, the Occulus matched the Normandy's velocity so that, relatively speaking, they were moving at similar velocities, and was able to pass through the barrier.  Weak maybe, but better than "It was an excuse for an awesome fight"

Now onto Smudboy's videos

How about that "essence of a species" thing?  ME2 definitely could have gone a little more into that, if for no other reason than to give us an idea as to what the Reapers are really after.  All we got out of that was "They wanna make babies with us!"

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...
And that's because the shield genorator is being fried by the sun.

See edit above for clarification -- your comment seems to not be the case.

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...
Now onto Smudboy's videos

How about that "essence of a species" thing?  ME2 definitely could have gone a little more into that, if for no other reason than to give us an idea as to what the Reapers are really after.  All we got out of that was "They wanna make babies with us!"

That whole "essence" thing is, so far, a far more legitimate criticism than the kinetic barrier nitpicking, which is born largely out of an incomplete understanding. 

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Stop trying to prove that a ship can deflect space debris we're past that already. The point is, it isn't consistent. As I've said earlier, Mass Effect Shields are just plot devices: they are what the plot needs them to be at any moment and nothing more, which is my problem.

So...what I'm gathering from this is that, despite being supported by both in-game examples and the lore (i.e. Codex), the shields are acting inconsistently?

At least use an example where the shielding isn't acting consistently, like on Haestrom. The shields drained there, when they shouldn't have. This is obviously a game play mechanic, but the point still stands

See, I can point out and admit to where ME2 has inconsistencies. You seem unable to accept that you, in this instance, are just plain wrong.

I'm not even sure that Haestrom counts... if the radiation is particle radiation, then it could interact with the kinetic barriers and cause them to "drain". 

Mmm okay. I don't know enough about radiation, particle or otherwise, to discuss the topic

Well, it's established that kinetic barriers can stop small, high-velocity objects, right? 

Particle radiation is literally very very small objects moving at very, very high velocity. 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Alpha_decay
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Beta_decay
http://en.wikipedia....utron_radiation
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cosmic_ray

In theory, a kinetic barrier could interact with these particiles, providing protection.  This also explains how a barrier could possibly provide some degree of defense against the collector particle beam weapons. 

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification. I guess that would make sense. Like I said though it's just a game play mechanic anyways, so I don't care regardless. Same thing with thermal clips on Jacob's loyalty mission. There shouldn't be any there and it is an inconcistency, but it was done for game play so I don't mind that, nor does it impact the story in any significant way. Just like the shields on Haestrom.

[Sgt Stryker]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Remember the shields that were blocking Shepard on Feros and Ilos in ME1? I do.

Also, the derelict Reaper had its barriers up so you couldn't leave until they were down.

Those are all examples of incorect use of lore material within the Narative, Kinetic barriers/shields are only designed for Damage protection for ships/vehicals and infantry, there are no such things as blocking forcefields within Mass Effect lore, those were just invented for gameplay purposes.

And how do you explain those about the normandy? you could just walk right through them

You're incorrect here. Let's say that the background material for a game says that "Technology X" is capable of performing Functions A and B. In the actual gameplay and story, we also see that Tech X can perform a third function (let's call it C), in addition to A and B. As long as there is no direct contradiction between A, B, and C, and as long as the background material does not expressly forbid Tech X from performing Function C, then we must conclude that in this universe, Tech X can perform all 3 Functions A, B, and C.

[Iakus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...
Now onto Smudboy's videos

How about that "essence of a species" thing?  ME2 definitely could have gone a little more into that, if for no other reason than to give us an idea as to what the Reapers are really after.  All we got out of that was "They wanna make babies with us!"

That whole "essence" thing is, so far, a far more legitimate criticism than the kinetic barrier nitpicking, which is born largely out of an incomplete understanding. 

Yeah.  I am willing to let ME3 explain what the frak is going on with that before passing final judgement.  But even if it succeeds, that only makes ME3 a better game for having done ME2's job for it.

And even so, it better be a really good explanation.

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Stop trying to prove that a ship can deflect space debris we're past that already. The point is, it isn't consistent. As I've said earlier, Mass Effect Shields are just plot devices: they are what the plot needs them to be at any moment and nothing more, which is my problem.

So...what I'm gathering from this is that, despite being supported by both in-game examples and the lore (i.e. Codex), the shields are acting inconsistently?

At least use an example where the shielding isn't acting consistently, like on Haestrom. The shields drained there, when they shouldn't have. This is obviously a game play mechanic, but the point still stands

See, I can point out and admit to where ME2 has inconsistencies. You seem unable to accept that you, in this instance, are just plain wrong.

I'm not even sure that Haestrom counts... if the radiation is particle radiation, then it could interact with the kinetic barriers and cause them to "drain". 

Mmm okay. I don't know enough about radiation, particle or otherwise, to discuss the topic

Well, it's established that kinetic barriers can stop small, high-velocity objects, right? 

Particle radiation is literally very very small objects moving at very, very high velocity. 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Alpha_decay
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Beta_decay
http://en.wikipedia....utron_radiation
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cosmic_ray

In theory, a kinetic barrier could interact with these particiles, providing protection.  This also explains how a barrier could possibly provide some degree of defense against the collector particle beam weapons. 

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification. I guess that would make sense. Like I said though it's just a game play mechanic anyways, so I don't care regardless. Same thing with thermal clips on Jacob's loyalty mission. There shouldn't be any there and it is an inconcistency, but it was done for game play so I don't mind that, nor does it impact the story in any significant way. Just like the shields on Haestrom.

See, I wish they had not added the thermal clips to the game, the heat mechanism of ME1 was more "cooler", and it's not as if limited ammo is a necessary gameplay mechanic or setting element. 

But once they did add them, then having that one mission in which there are no thermal clips to pick up would have been a great nod to the setting material and a different sort of gameplay challenge. 

[AlexMBrennan]

the Occulus matched the Normandy's velocity so that, relatively speaking, they were moving at similar velocities, and was able to pass through the barrier. Weak maybe

That's not exactly weak but common sense* - the objective was not to do damage by hitting the Normandy really hard with a projectile but to board and bypass the main defences.
*common sense is surprisingly rare

[SpiffySquee]

iakus wrote...

 Oy I leave for a few hours and we get caught up in kinetic barriers?

Okay, this i sall I'll say on it.  The way I see it...

The effectiveness of the barriers depends on both the mass and speed of the incoming object.  SLower objects can pass through the barrier.  Larger objects can overload it.

 In the case of the Normandy going through the debris field, I think that since the Normandy itself was moving very fast (it was being chased by Occuli after all) the barriers could still prove effective against the dbris.  It's just in this case it was a fast moving barrier hitting slower moving objects.  This makes sense in a way, since ships need some sort of protection against micrometeorite hits and other space debris.  I could easily see kinetic barriers being used for that.  THe debris field was the same thing, but order of magnitude larger.

Of course, the chunks in teh debris field are much much lasrger than standard debris.  EDI warns of this.  So we use Tali's upgradede shields.  From what I understand, they don't use the standard brute-force method of stopping or repelling objects, but deflect them off to one side.  Less energy used, but more com[plicated and requires the emitters to work perfectly in sync.  I'm sure someone more familiar with physics or engineering could explain it better, but compare it to Ashley Williams being a "straight up puncher" to her sister Sarah being an expert at aikido. 

How did the Occulus get into the cargo bay?  The way I figure it, the Occulus matched the Normandy's velocity so that, relatively speaking, they were moving at similar velocities, and was able to pass through the barrier.  Weak maybe, but better than "It was an excuse for an awesome fight"

Now onto Smudboy's videos

How about that "essence of a species" thing?  ME2 definitely could have gone a little more into that, if for no other reason than to give us an idea as to what the Reapers are really after.  All we got out of that was "They wanna make babies with us!"

I want to know more too! I just figured they wanted us asking those questions all the way to ME3. I don't think they expected people to get that angry about the lack of info. Perhaps they should have found a middle ground? Give us a bit more info but leave things to be wondered? There is a fine line between leaving people wanting more and making them angry.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Remember the shields that were blocking Shepard on Feros and Ilos in ME1? I do.

Also, the derelict Reaper had its barriers up so you couldn't leave until they were down.

Those are all examples of incorect use of lore material within the Narative, Kinetic barriers/shields are only designed for Damage protection for ships/vehicals and infantry, there are no such things as blocking forcefields within Mass Effect lore, those were just invented for gameplay purposes.

And how do you explain those about the normandy? you could just walk right through them

You're incorrect here. Let's say that the background material for a game says that "Technology X" is capable of performing Functions A and B. In the actual gameplay and story, we also see that Tech X can perform a third function (let's call it C), in addition to A and B. As long as there is no direct contradiction between A, B, and C, and as long as the background material does not expressly forbid Tech X from performing Function C, then we must conclude that in this universe, Tech X can perform all 3 Functions A, B, and C.

Exactly. 

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...
Now onto Smudboy's videos

How about that "essence of a species" thing?  ME2 definitely could have gone a little more into that, if for no other reason than to give us an idea as to what the Reapers are really after.  All we got out of that was "They wanna make babies with us!"

That whole "essence" thing is, so far, a far more legitimate criticism than the kinetic barrier nitpicking, which is born largely out of an incomplete understanding. 

Agreed, the essence of a species isn't explained at all. I would argue though that this could be something integral to the Reapers that we learn about in ME3, so it's too early so say. If this is the only explanation we get, then yes, that would be a problem.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Stop trying to prove that a ship can deflect space debris we're past that already. The point is, it isn't consistent. As I've said earlier, Mass Effect Shields are just plot devices: they are what the plot needs them to be at any moment and nothing more, which is my problem.

So...what I'm gathering from this is that, despite being supported by both in-game examples and the lore (i.e. Codex), the shields are acting inconsistently?

At least use an example where the shielding isn't acting consistently, like on Haestrom. The shields drained there, when they shouldn't have. This is obviously a game play mechanic, but the point still stands

See, I can point out and admit to where ME2 has inconsistencies. You seem unable to accept that you, in this instance, are just plain wrong.

I'm not even sure that Haestrom counts... if the radiation is particle radiation, then it could interact with the kinetic barriers and cause them to "drain". 

The thing is the sun on Haestrom was frying all tech it had direct sun light on reguardless of protection. The shield going down was not indecating interactiontion shield. It was indecation of the interaction to the tech in general. The generator of the shield were just stop working, not the shield were  getting warn down.

The shields go down over time in the same manner as if being struck by enemy fire. 

Other equipment does not appear to shut down immediately, and indeed seems to function normally, including the weapons, which also use mass effect fields and complicated computerized systems.  The shuttle is able to fly in and land, without its barrier and mass effect generator(s) failing.  One possible explanation is that its barrier is strong enough to resist the particle radiation, while personal units are not. 

Another hint that barriers are able to resist particle radiation is the fact that ships are able to travel long times and distances in space without several meters of physical shielding against cosmic "rays".

You never realize that teck can be armor to protect agenst rediation over time. The ship landed in a shadow and quick got out before leaving. The guns are kept out of the sun because you are getting out of the sun.
Also, armor and metal is what protect things from radiation, like lead.

As I stated before. What your seeing with the shield is just the shield generator getting fried.

[Iakus]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

the Occulus matched the Normandy's velocity so that, relatively speaking, they were moving at similar velocities, and was able to pass through the barrier. Weak maybe

That's not exactly weak but common sense* - the objective was not to do damage by hitting the Normandy really hard with a projectile but to board and bypass the main defences.
*common sense is surprisingly rare

Well, I'm not exactly Science Guy so when we get into this stuff I can't always tell which orifice I'm talking out of 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

iakus wrote...
I can't always tell which orifice I'm talking out of 

You might want to talk to a doctor about that....

[KotorEffect3]

wtf 72 pages seriously?

[Iakus]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wtf 72 pages seriously?

And you helped make it happen!  COngrats!

[SpiffySquee]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wtf 72 pages seriously?

72? oh good, I was wondering. I'm so glad you pop in every once in a while and announce the page number. It is such a vital service and you do it brilliantly. Be a pal and let me know when it hits 85? I promised to feed my cat at that point... <_<

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:28 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

SpiffySquee wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wtf 72 pages seriously?

72? oh good, I was wondering. I'm so glad you pop in every once in a while and announce the page number. It is such a vital service and you do it brilliantly. <_<

Says the one who helped Smud get even bigger through his response videos.

[dreman9999]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wtf 72 pages seriously?

72? oh good, I was wondering. I'm so glad you pop in every once in a while and announce the page number. It is such a vital service and you do it brilliantly. <_<

Says the one who helped Smud get even bigger through his response videos.

It's like an infestation you just can't get rid of..... And I'm still helping.

[SpiffySquee]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wtf 72 pages seriously?

72? oh good, I was wondering. I'm so glad you pop in every once in a while and announce the page number. It is such a vital service and you do it brilliantly. <_<

Says the one who helped Smud get even bigger through his response videos.

I'm sorry? I was making a sarcastic remark about how pointless it is to pop into a thread to simply point out the page number. How does that have anything to do with what you just said?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

And we are getting off-topic...

[dreman9999]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

And we are getting off-topic...

More like there's no one here to argue with.

[Sgt Stryker]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

And we are getting off-topic...

In this thread, that's not a bad thing.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

And we are getting off-topic...

More like there's no one here to argue with.

I noticed that...

[SpiffySquee]

alright then... to keep things on topic until more opposition comes, Anything on my videos to Smudsy that you disagree with, or wanted better explanation?