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[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

No...in your mind, it was heavily implied. Thats just how you interepreted it. That doesn't mean everyone would interpret it that way. It is not a retcon.

And if you think ME2 had some of the worst writing in history...you really are rather ignorant of the world.

There's nothing in the first game that even remotely implies that the Reapers use organics to 'reproduce'. Hell, even in ME2, where they attempt to build up to that reveal, it still comes as a total asspull in a universe which was once based on just the one titular handwave.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, bollocks. There's nothing special about Sheps relationships. What, you think there aren't any other people out there who are on good terms wiht various factions?
The Cipher is useless, since it already served it's purpose. The warning about the reapers is already out there.

Shep is not a powerfull anti-reper symbol, since 99% of hte galaxy doesn't know or doesn't belive in them.


Also, TIM's plan was redicolous since it hinged on

1) getting sheps body relatively in tact
2) reviving him (despite his hiribly mangled, decomposing corpse)
3) keeping his memories in tact inthe process
4) getting Shep to wrok with him
5) everyone hailin Shep and listenign to him (biggest WTF??)

If even one of those poitns fail, TIM plan fails. A huge investment of time and resources. A tottaly stupid plan that only a moron would think could work.

Ah, yes, because you have either played ME3, or believe that the second something's been used, it's completely useless.

Also, people joined up with Shepard and were willing to work with him for the sake of the galaxy before. In ME1.

Even Garrus did something like it on Omega. If you tell people want they want to hear, they will help you. 

[111987]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

No...in your mind, it was heavily implied. Thats just how you interepreted it. That doesn't mean everyone would interpret it that way. It is not a retcon.

And if you think ME2 had some of the worst writing in history...you really are rather ignorant of the world.

There's nothing in the first game that even remotely implies that the Reapers use organics to 'reproduce'. Hell, even in ME2, where they attempt to build up to that reveal, it still comes as a total asspull in a universe which was once based on just the one titualar handwave.

Wow...do people on these forums really not know what a retcon is? Please, look up a definition of a retcon.

Just because you don't like the direction the plot went doesn't mean you can just arbitrarily call something a retcon.

[littlezack]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

Let me tell you something.

Just because it's implied doesn't mean it is so as a fact.

Take the geth, for example. Many believed they all were nothing but killing machines. That's not the case.

And really, were was it even implied? You learn almost nothing at all about the Reapers in ME1. The very little information you do get comes from secondary sources. The only time you actually speak with Sovereign, he says some vague **** and cuts the call.

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

No...in your mind, it was heavily implied. Thats just how you interepreted it. That doesn't mean everyone would interpret it that way. It is not a retcon.

And if you think ME2 had some of the worst writing in history...you really are rather ignorant of the world.

There's nothing in the first game that even remotely implies that the Reapers use organics to 'reproduce'. Hell, even in ME2, where they attempt to build up to that reveal, it still comes as a total asspull in a universe which was once based on just the one titualar handwave.

Wow...do people on these forums really not know what a retcon is? Please, look up a definition of a retcon.

Just because you don't like the direction the plot went doesn't mean you can just arbitrarily call something a retcon.

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. YOUR lives are measured in years and decades. YOU wither and die.  WE are eternal, the pinnical of existance and evolution. Before US, YOU are nothing. YOUR extinction is inevitable. WE are the end of everything." Notice the contrasting here? The seperation between organic, and mechanical.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

No...in your mind, it was heavily implied. Thats just how you interepreted it. That doesn't mean everyone would interpret it that way. It is not a retcon.

And if you think ME2 had some of the worst writing in history...you really are rather ignorant of the world.

There's nothing in the first game that even remotely implies that the Reapers use organics to 'reproduce'. Hell, even in ME2, where they attempt to build up to that reveal, it still comes as a total asspull in a universe which was once based on just the one titualar handwave.

Wow...do people on these forums really not know what a retcon is? Please, look up a definition of a retcon.

Just because you don't like the direction the plot went doesn't mean you can just arbitrarily call something a retcon.

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. YOUR lives are measured in years and decades. YOU wither and die.  WE are eternal, the pinnical of existance and evolution. Before US, YOU are nothing. YOUR extinction is inevitable. WE are the end of everything." Notice the contrasting here? The seperation between organic, and mechanical.

Go away and learn what a retcon is, and then come back. At this point you're not even worth responding to.

[Someone With Mass]

As mentioned before, machines can't evolve through a natural path.

Sovereign also thought that simple organics are inferior to him and his kind because the Reapers are something more. That does not say anything about the Reapers' designs or anything.

The only thing that came out of that was Shepard's stupid assumption that machines can be broken (great comeback, Shep), and he can't know what they're made out of.

[littlezack]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

No...in your mind, it was heavily implied. Thats just how you interepreted it. That doesn't mean everyone would interpret it that way. It is not a retcon.

And if you think ME2 had some of the worst writing in history...you really are rather ignorant of the world.

There's nothing in the first game that even remotely implies that the Reapers use organics to 'reproduce'. Hell, even in ME2, where they attempt to build up to that reveal, it still comes as a total asspull in a universe which was once based on just the one titualar handwave.

Wow...do people on these forums really not know what a retcon is? Please, look up a definition of a retcon.

Just because you don't like the direction the plot went doesn't mean you can just arbitrarily call something a retcon.

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. YOUR lives are measured in years and decades. YOU wither and die.  WE are eternal, the pinnical of existance and evolution. Before US, YOU are nothing. YOUR extinction is inevitable. WE are the end of everything." Notice the contrasting here? The seperation between organic, and mechanical.

By that same token, you could take his claim to be the 'pinnacle of evolution' to mean 'organic evolution'. Evolution's typically not something one applies to machines.

But it's a moot point - it's a speech from a raving sentient warship talking to you like you might talk to an amoeba, if an amoeba could talk. Sovereign says a lot of things - like, for instance, claiming to have 'no beginning and no end', It's not something you should or could gleam any real fact from.

[Someone With Mass]

Do people think that the Reapers will literally darken the sky of every world too?

[SpiffySquee]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. YOUR lives are measured in years and decades. YOU wither and die.  WE are eternal, the pinnical of existance and evolution. Before US, YOU are nothing. YOUR extinction is inevitable. WE are the end of everything." Notice the contrasting here? The seperation between organic, and mechanical.

So what? If I was arrogant to the extreme I could say the same thing to my dinner. I eat a carrot. It becomes a part of me. That does not mean I think I am a carrot. Cars need oil to run. Are cars now oil? Plants need water to survive, does that mean plants are water? Look at the definition for retcon. Does sovy ever say, "I use no organic material in my construction." No? Then it is not a retcon. Period. I don't care what you felt Sovy was implying. Nothing he says goes against what was revealed in ME2. Unless of course you want to start calling your self a fish because you had a tuna sandwich. 

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

SpiffySquee wrote...
In short, I would have LOVED for Shepard to have explored what happened, but I don't fault Bioware for playing it safe.

When you start your second act with killing the protagonist and bringing him back to life. Then you have already gone all-in in a manner of speaking. You do not immedietly fall back on what you just did, and play it safe. If they were not willing to all the way with the death and resurection plot, they should not have attempted to take on such a huge subject in the first place.

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Is anything in that statement stating what a reaper is made from?......No. Than it doesn;t establish the fact that reaper are not part organic. If it does not, it's not a retcon.

Everytihng we know from ME1 about the reapers implies otherwise. the entier tone, the design - NOTHING even HINTED at ANYTHING organic involved.
I call it a retcon.

You can call it what you want, but it's not a retcon. 

Because if it's a retcon, the game would have to specifically say that no organic parts were involved in the Reaper creation at all. Which it didn't.

Some people really need to understand the meaning of the word...

Semantics. It was heavily implied there was no organic compnent. The Termiantor reaper and goo are one of the worst cases of bad writing in hostry of bad wrting. Garbage of the highest stink.

the definition of a word is just semantics now? You don't like the fact that it is not a retcon by definition so you just dismiss the definition. Wow...

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[SpiffySquee]

Lizardviking wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...
In short, I would have LOVED for Shepard to have explored what happened, but I don't fault Bioware for playing it safe.

When you start your second act with killing the protagonist and bringing him back to life. Then you have already gone all-in in a manner of speaking. You do not immedietly fall back on what you just did, and play it safe. If they were not willing to all the way with the death and resurection plot, they should not have attempted to take on such a huge subject in the first place.

Please understand that for the most part I am with you on this. I would have loved for them to have done it. I simply understand why they did not. 

[Someone With Mass]

SpiffySquee wrote...

So what? If I was arrogant to the extreme I could say the same thing to my dinner. I eat a carrot. It becomes a part of me. That does not mean I think I am a carrot. Cars need oil to run. Are cars now oil? Plants need water to survive, does that mean plants are water? Look at the definition for retcon. Does sovy ever say, "I use no organic material in my construction." No? Then it is not a retcon. Period. I don't care what you felt Sovy was implying. Nothing he says goes against what was revealed in ME2. Unless of course you want to start calling your self a fish because you had a tuna sandwich. 

I laughed more than I should have.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Smudboy's always been sort of...well you know a whiny troll.

Why would anyone listen to him or put any stock in what he says?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Why would anyone listen to him or put any stock in what he says?

Because he actually raises some good points.

[Isaidlunch]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Smudboy's always been sort of...well you know a whiny troll.

Why would anyone listen to him or put any stock in what he says?

Because as whiny as he is some of his points are still valid. You don't
have to like someone or like the way they present their arguments to
agree with them. And being overly critical doesn't make him a troll.

[alex90c]

I agreed with smudboy's DA2 analysis but I thought the ME2 one was a bit over the top so I couldn't be bothered to sit through even the first part.

[littlezack]

The thing is, on the internet, opinions are a dime a dozen. You don't have to look hard to find someone who makes the same points Smud does. It's not like he's saying anything others haven't said before, in less jackassish ways. It's not like he's got some revolutionary insight into anything. Even if his points are valid, they're not new points.

It's like with Bill Maehr. I agree with a lot of what he says, but I find him to be an insufferable jackass, so I don't watch his stuff. There are plenty of people I can listen to with similar viewpoints, and whom I can actually stand.

Modifié par littlezack, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:11 .

[Massadonious1]

Even if he does present "valid" points, he does it in a way that makes you despise him before he can even get around to it. As if his views are the right ones and you're a braindead idiot if you think otherwise.

If I agreed with him, I'd almost be inclined to disagree with him in principle.

[Notlikeyoucare]

* sigh * "You are not Prothean, but you are not MACHINE either". Hmmmmm I wonder what machines he was talking about? It must have been the G- oh wait! "This eventuallity was well anticipated, this is why we sent our warnings through the Beacons." " I do not sense the taint of indoctrination, unlike the one who has passed recently. " Some worlds were utterly destroyed, others were conqured, their populations enslaved." See? The Collectors being Protheans is perfectly consistent, unlike the Reapers. ".... These indoctrinated servents became sleeper agents under Reaper control, taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the MACHINES. "

[Someone With Mass]

littlezack wrote...

The thing is, on the internet, opinions are a dime a dozen. You don't have to look hard to find someone who makes the same points Smud does. It's not like he's saying anything others haven't said before, in less jackassish ways. It's not like he's got some revolutionary insight into anything. Even if his points are valid, they're not new points.

It's like with Bill Maehr. I agree with a lot of what he says, but I find him to be an insufferable jackass, so I don't watch his stuff. There are plenty of people I can listen to with similar viewpoints, and whom I can actually stand.

So true.

When people are displaying their opinion in a less "This the only truth, and you are stupid for thinking otherwise!" way, it's easier for me to actually starting to look at it from their viewpoint.

[SpiffySquee]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

* sigh * "You are not Prothean, but you are not MACHINE either". Hmmmmm I wonder what machines he was talking about? It must have been the G- oh wait! "This eventuallity was well anticipated, this is why we sent our warnings through the Beacons." " I do not sense the taint of indoctrination, unlike the one who has passed recently. " Some worlds were utterly destroyed, others were conqured, their populations enslaved." See? The Collectors being Protheans is perfectly consistent, unlike the Reapers. ".... These indoctrinated servents became sleeper agents under Reaper control, taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the MACHINES. "

What is your point? Even if Vigil knew that Reapers had organic parts (which there is nothing to say he did) he would still call them machines. Was Luke no longer human because he had a robot hand? Was data no longer a robot because he had a patch of human skin? If you eat a tuna sandwich, should I stop saying you are human? I guess the terminators that had human flesh were not machines either...

for the thousandth time, there is nothing in the game that states they are pure machines with no organic parts. Nothing. Just because Reapers have some organic part somewhere does not mean they are not machines, or that they would consider themselves the same as the things they eat. So they gave no indication of it? Good! That is why it is called a plot twist. 

You might as well be saying that since there was no indication that Vader was Luke's father in the first movie, that was a retcon too...<_<

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[Someone With Mass]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

* sigh * "You are not Prothean, but you are not MACHINE either". Hmmmmm I wonder what machines he was talking about? It must have been the G- oh wait! "This eventuallity was well anticipated, this is why we sent our warnings through the Beacons." " I do not sense the taint of indoctrination, unlike the one who has passed recently. " Some worlds were utterly destroyed, others were conqured, their populations enslaved." See? The Collectors being Protheans is perfectly consistent, unlike the Reapers. ".... These indoctrinated servents became sleeper agents under Reaper control, taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the MACHINES. "

Congratulations. You've figured out that the Reapers are part machines. Want a cookie?

[Carfax]

Having watched some of Smudboy's character analysis videos, the man is obviously a genius