6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Yeah, because 15 minutes of talking is boring, mostly about talking and shooting. Wait, what are you saying? Are you saying that the Bioware fans are so dumb they get bored with someone explaining what thermal clips are to shepard? 

Since talking about thermal clips adds nothing to the story, while there's a Codex entry, then yes. It'd be a spectacular waste of time.

Just because i don't want to hear it doesn't make me dumb. I don't want to listen or read every single Codex entry there is either, since I think it's just a waste of time too, unless there's a topic that interests me and I want to know more about it.

Then again, I am talking to you, who apparently suffers from a severe case of superiority complex, and you think you're better than everyone else, while in reality, you can't form a single solid argument.

Since thermal clips are a different gameply mechanic than from ME1 AND since it's the tutorial level AND since it makes sense to explain it to Shepaprd.

It's absolutely the most perfect place to explain it.

Your logic is (as always) utterly flawed.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Bull****.

Too bad.

But I guess it's silly, considering that they live in a universe where you can reduce an object's mass with mysterious fields without changing its shape (just as impossible as reanimating dead cells, by the way) and can go from one end of the galaxy to the other in a matter of seconds ( which is even more impossible, since every particle in the ship's path would hit the hull like cannon balls at those speeds).

[aridor1570]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



Your logic is (as always) utterly flawed.

No it's not, but your trolling is.

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. YOUR lives are measured in years and decades. YOU wither and die.  WE are eternal, the pinnical of existance and evolution. Before US, YOU are nothing. YOUR extinction is inevitable. WE are the end of everything." Notice the contrasting here? The seperation between organic, and mechanical.

So what? If I was arrogant to the extreme I could say the same thing to my dinner. I eat a carrot. It becomes a part of me. That does not mean I think I am a carrot. Cars need oil to run. Are cars now oil? Plants need water to survive, does that mean plants are water? Look at the definition for retcon. Does sovy ever say, "I use no organic material in my construction." No? Then it is not a retcon. Period. I don't care what you felt Sovy was implying. Nothing he says goes against what was revealed in ME2. Unless of course you want to start calling your self a fish because you had a tuna sandwich. 

your'e going with that as an argument?........ really?

His argument is perfectly fine. What alot of users don't want to take into account is what I call "point of view". Shepard or Vigil calling the Reapers machines doesn't matter. They are making an assumption based on their immediate perceptions, which is acceptable for them. Sovereign looks like a machine. What a character (or the player) thinks of a topic is not representative of reality. Most people thought Sovereign was an advanced warship. We find out he's a Reaper. Is that a retcon?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Since thermal clips are a different gameply mechanic than from ME1 AND since it's the tutorial level AND since it makes sense to explain it to Shepaprd.

It's absolutely the most perfect place to explain it.

Your logic is (as always) utterly flawed.

What was that? I can't hear you over the sound of your trolling and insulting.

[Whatever42]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Lotion is just a first class troll, ignore him. His responses are pure insult almost every time.

Well hello kettle!

But on the point of entry into the atmosphere, it entirely depends on the velocity on which he entered. Remember, the extreme heat that we see with spacecraft and meteors is because those objects were moving very fast. If you simply took someone to the top of our atmosphere and dropped them, you wouldn't see them burn up.

Gravity has one hell of an acceleration.
You would..

First rule of a troll is to deflect. I understand completely. You go, girl.

The acceleration of gravity is countered by the deceleration of atmosphere. It would entirely depend on how far away Shepard started from the planet. In the cutscene, he appeared pretty close. 

If you look at the cutscenes again, you also notice that his direction was also against the current direction of the ship, which strongly suggests that he was not moving at a high velocity toward the atmosphere.

His suit can obviously survive some friction (in the game, you can stand in a flamethrower for a few seconds) so as long as he wasn't travelling at super-fast speeds and we have no reason to believe he was then entry into the atmo wouldn't be an issue. Simple physics.

[Whatever42]

As far as technology handwaving:

Time travel is far more inconceivable than reconstructing neural pathways. Does Terminator explain it?

FTL travel is far more ludicrous, do any science fiction series really explain it? ME does a better job than most, actually.

The gates in B5 were never explained. The magic of B5 to use "life force" to restore people was never explained.

Coming up with technobabble explanations that mean absolutely nothing to explain the science/magic would be useless and drag down the story telling. That's why no one does it.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Yes you were Commander Shepard throughout ME1.  And yes, Commander Shepard dies at the beginning of ME2.  And then...he's back.  You're Commander Shepard again.  What changed? You may not have been as initially invested in Jensen as you were in Shepard.  But Jensen's experience resonated throughout the entire game.  Shepard's is gone pretty much by the time he reaches Freedom's Progress.

Like I said, it doesn't really remove the impact of that moment. What changed was my surroundings. The Alliance wasn't throwing me a bone everywhere I went. I had an entirely different crew, in an entirely different context. It created a nostalgic element in me, similar to the first time I played KotOR 2. Sure, I would have loved to see Shepard go through development, which was a dramatic weakness. But as presented, the death made me experience real emotion, so I forgive it.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:43 .

[Notlikeyoucare]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

As far as technology handwaving:

Time travel is far more inconceivable than reconstructing neural pathways. Does Terminator explain it?

FTL travel is far more ludicrous, do any science fiction series really explain it? ME does a better job than most, actually.

The gates in B5 were never explained. The magic of B5 to use "life force" to restore people was never explained.

Coming up with technobabble explanations that mean absolutely nothing to explain the science/magic would be useless and drag down the story telling. That's why no one does it.

They don't need one. All they need to say is " Your armor protected you because..." or something similar. The narrative must answer raised questions: it must explain itself somewhat. There is no A to B correlation between the opening scene and tutorial level. Simply put, we need an understanding of how A led to B. It doesn't need to be fancy, technical, but there needs to be something . 2 years, x billion credits and science must equal B, be it resurrection machine or whatever. There must be a conclusion.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

The question isn't so much "Why?"  as "Why now?"  

I mean, clearly the humans have something that other races lack.  Something the Reapers want or need to create more Reapers.  So why tip their hand now, years before the rest of the fleet enters the galaxy?  It's a situation pretty much designed for a band of plucky heroes to discover and foil. So if it's something in humans, and Collectors want to keep a low profile:

I wouldn't say that's positively clear. But from an achievment perspective, Shepard (part of a "new race") has demonstrated more than anyoneone the Council has. What I still want to know is whether the Reapers repurpose every viable race, or whether it is also required for the organic race to impress them in some context.

Why not clone the material they need?
Why not grow the tissue in labs, raid blood banks or something?
If Reapers are such genetic experts that they can repurpose entire species, why not artificially induce whatever it is they're looking for?

What do genetics have to do with creating a cybernetic organism anyway?  Particularly the combined genetics of millions of individual beings?

Maybe they just can't. Maybe it's technologically impossible. Or maybe they just don't want to? There could be any number of answers to that. But technobabble ultimately means little.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

They don't need one. All they need to say is " Your armor protected you because..." or something similar. 

Combination of ceramic plates and kinetic barriers mitigated damage from reentry and impact with the planet? Works for me. Yes, I believe that in principle, kinetic barriers would be able to protect somewhat from the frictional heating of reentry, until they ran out of juice, that is.

Of course, Shepard should have had the opportunity to ask this question at some point, and actually have it addressed.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Bull****.

Too bad.

But I guess it's silly, considering that they live in a universe where you can reduce an object's mass with mysterious fields without changing its shape (just as impossible as reanimating dead cells, by the way) and can go from one end of the galaxy to the other in a matter of seconds ( which is even more impossible, since every particle in the ship's path would hit the hull like cannon balls at those speeds).

Not just as silly. Not even remotely.
Science may change and march on. I cna accept ME fields, since without them the ME universe doens't work at all.

Logic and motivations remain, since it's humans there. TIM is a human. I expect him to follow human logic and motivations.

What would it take for you to accept it's bad writing?

TIM: "sheppard, since bannans are green, you have to stop the Collectors at Tuchanka!"
Shep: "But bannanas are yellow."
TIM: "Then you must smear yourself in hot souce and go to Omega4!"
Shep: "Yes, your lgoic is flawless!"

I wager if Bio did that, you'd still defend it.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

They don't need one. All they need to say is " Your armor protected you because..." or something similar. 

Combination of ceramic plates and kinetic barriers mitigated damage from reentry and impact with the planet? Works for me. Yes, I believe that in principle, kinetic barriers would be able to protect somewhat from the frictional heating of reentry, until they ran out of juice, that is.

Of course, Shepard should have had the opportunity to ask this question at some point, and actually have it addressed.

Yes but the thing is, the story must explain that this is feesable. The writer is supposed to write a plot, the audience should not have to deduce this by reading lines of secondary source material. We don't even know if it is plausable, because the writer did not take the time to do so.

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Bull****.

Too bad.

But I guess it's silly, considering that they live in a universe where you can reduce an object's mass with mysterious fields without changing its shape (just as impossible as reanimating dead cells, by the way) and can go from one end of the galaxy to the other in a matter of seconds ( which is even more impossible, since every particle in the ship's path would hit the hull like cannon balls at those speeds).

Not just as silly. Not even remotely.
Science may change and march on. I cna accept ME fields, since without them the ME universe doens't work at all.

Logic and motivations remain, since it's humans there. TIM is a human. I expect him to follow human logic and motivations.

What would it take for you to accept it's bad writing?

TIM: "sheppard, since bannans are green, you have to stop the Collectors at Tuchanka!"
Shep: "But bannanas are yellow."
TIM: "Then you must smear yourself in hot souce and go to Omega4!"
Shep: "Yes, your lgoic is flawless!"

I wager if Bio did that, you'd still defend it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...
His argument is perfectly fine. What alot of users don't want to take into account is what I call "point of view". Shepard or Vigil calling the Reapers machines doesn't matter. They are making an assumption based on their immediate perceptions, which is acceptable for them. Sovereign looks like a machine. What a character (or the player) thinks of a topic is not representative of reality. Most people thought Sovereign was an advanced warship. We find out he's a Reaper. Is that a retcon?

His argument is stupidly worded as the comparison is utterly flawed on so many levels.

I can accept that the goo reapers are not TECHICLY retcons (if you want to be anal) - but it doesn't really change a a think. It's still just as bad writing.

[element eater]

seen this video before he makes some good points and also misses a few things. 
But hes pretty good i think.

hopefully me3's plot is better constructed and explains a few of the weird things about me2's.

Modifié par element eater, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Since thermal clips are a different gameply mechanic than from ME1 AND since it's the tutorial level AND since it makes sense to explain it to Shepaprd.

It's absolutely the most perfect place to explain it.

Your logic is (as always) utterly flawed.

What was that? I can't hear you over the sound of your trolling and insulting.

Ah..that image of a fanboys finely tuned ears are apparently correct.
I see you attempt to avoid my argument again.

Go ahead. Challenge my argument above. I DARE YOU.

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

His argument is stupidly worded as the comparison is utterly flawed on so many levels.

I can accept that the goo reapers are not TECHICLY retcons (if you want to be anal) - but it doesn't really change a a think. It's still just as bad writing.

So what's next? Are you going to start claiming that squares and triangles are the same thing? I mean, they're both shapes, right? This goes for any number of issues. The inability to correctly explain your own thoughts weakens any claim you are attempting to bring to the table. 

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ah..that image of a fanboys finely tuned ears are apparently correct.
I see you attempt to avoid my argument again.

Go ahead. Challenge my argument above. I DARE YOU.

Okay. Tell me why they need to tell Shepard the background and usage of the thermal clips in the middle of a battle, when they can just say "Here's a clip. put it in the pistol like this and shoot"?

Oh, right. They don't. They assume they player isn't an idiot and can actually read the Codex.

That "argument" was sooo hard. Should I explain why they shouldn't need to tell Shepard how the Normandy works down to every single component too?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

As far as technology handwaving:

Time travel is far more inconceivable than reconstructing neural pathways. Does Terminator explain it?

Nope. But time it iself is poorly understood, and if oy w ant to get technical, Wormhoels might argue agaisnt that. But either way, if  Iwatched terminator, I already accepted the time-travel, sicne it's the CORE of the whole franchise.

FTL travel is far more ludicrous, do any science fiction series really explain it? ME does a better job than most, actually.

FTL is the staple of science fiction adn it's not fully understood.

The gates in B5 were never explained. The magic of B5 to use "life force" to restore people was never explained.

And I don't really consider B5 the hight of writing. However, when you introduce god-like creatures, all bets are off.

I can accept Q for example, becaue it's established from the begingin that he gives sceince the figher and is practicly omnipotent.

Coming up with technobabble explanations that mean absolutely nothing to explain the science/magic would be useless and drag down the story telling. That's why no one does it.

And there is no need to include story telling elements and tools you are incapable of using propery or explaining properly. There was no need for Sheapprds death and ressurection. NONE.

Bioware tried and failed and this is the consequence.

[aridor1570]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Since thermal clips are a different gameply mechanic than from ME1 AND since it's the tutorial level AND since it makes sense to explain it to Shepaprd.

It's absolutely the most perfect place to explain it.

Your logic is (as always) utterly flawed.

What was that? I can't hear you over the sound of your trolling and insulting.

Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

They don't need one. All they need to say is " Your armor protected you because..." or something similar. 

Combination of ceramic plates and kinetic barriers mitigated damage from reentry and impact with the planet? Works for me. Yes, I believe that in principle, kinetic barriers would be able to protect somewhat from the frictional heating of reentry, until they ran out of juice, that is.

Of course, Shepard should have had the opportunity to ask this question at some point, and actually have it addressed.

Except we already know Kinetic barriers can't protect agaisnt either. Collision with a planet? There is no barrier that can protect you from that.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

[Lotion Soronarr]

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.


Now, you fanboys can putfinger in the ears and go "lalalala" if you want.
But the amount of wilfull ignorance and denail is staggering. That you cannot - will not- even attempt to distance yourself and judge the game and story on it's true mertis, that you won't remove your lips from Bio's (ME2) ass is more condeming than anything else.

[Someone With Mass]

aridor1570 wrote...

Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

Can't promise anything.