6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

Hmm, never thought about this, but it's a good point. I don't think the problem is with the Collectors being able to locate a Reaper IFF. We can assume that the Reapers would give their new proxy some ability here. The bigger issue is, why weren't they able to use the IFF to remove the derelict Reaper in the first place? 

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:42 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ah..that image of a fanboys finely tuned ears are apparently correct.
I see you attempt to avoid my argument again.

Go ahead. Challenge my argument above. I DARE YOU.

Okay. Tell me why they need to tell Shepard the background and usage of the thermal clips in the middle of a battle, when they can just say "Here's a clip. put it in the pistol like this and shoot"?

Oh, right. They don't. They assume they player isn't an idiot and can actually read the Codex.

That "argument" was sooo hard. Should I explain why they shouldn't need to tell Shepard how the Normandy works down to every single component too?

They don't need to tell the background. That's what the codex is for.

But soemthing like "Things changed while you were out Sheppard. Weapons now use thermal clips. Just pop one in and your good to go!" from Miranada is simple enough, no?

Taht ties in new mechanics with the polot rather nicely and simply.

You counter-argument is so pathetic it's laughable. Next time, try gettign the gist of hte argument insted of alwas getting things wrong and going into absurdity.

[aridor1570]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

[Notlikeyoucare]

aridor1570 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

No they haven't. How about the thing I just mentioned, does that count as a plot hole?

[littlezack]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ah..that image of a fanboys finely tuned ears are apparently correct.
I see you attempt to avoid my argument again.

Go ahead. Challenge my argument above. I DARE YOU.

Okay. Tell me why they need to tell Shepard the background and usage of the thermal clips in the middle of a battle, when they can just say "Here's a clip. put it in the pistol like this and shoot"?

Oh, right. They don't. They assume they player isn't an idiot and can actually read the Codex.

That "argument" was sooo hard. Should I explain why they shouldn't need to tell Shepard how the Normandy works down to every single component too?

They don't need to tell the background. That's what the codex is for.

But soemthing like "Things changed while you were out Sheppard. Weapons now use thermal clips. Just pop one in and your good to go!" from Miranada is simple enough, no?

Actually, the game makes it clear from early on that Shepard knows what a thermal clip is and that the change happened before he died. One of his first words after coming back is to mention how his gun is out of thermal clips.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

They don't need to tell the background. That's what the codex is for.

But soemthing like "Things changed while you were out Sheppard. Weapons now use thermal clips. Just pop one in and your good to go!" from Miranada is simple enough, no?

Taht ties in new mechanics with the polot rather nicely and simply.

You counter-argument is so pathetic it's laughable. Next time, try gettign the gist of hte argument insted of alwas getting things wrong and going into absurdity.

Try to invest in a spellchecker, because I can barely understand what the hell it is that you're trying to say.

Also, I think Shepard can grasp the possibility that things have change when they tell him how long he's been out.

Your arguments have barely any foundations to begin with. You know. Stupid question gets a stupid answer? That's what you get when you're complaining about such trivial things.

[Lotion Soronarr]

aridor1570 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

A) It's fact
No youhaven't
C) There's more to bad writing than just Plot Holes (it's just that they are the more obvious instances)

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

No they haven't. How about the thing I just mentioned, does that count as a plot hole?

I'm gonna go with 'yes' on that one.

[Lotion Soronarr]

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ah..that image of a fanboys finely tuned ears are apparently correct.
I see you attempt to avoid my argument again.

Go ahead. Challenge my argument above. I DARE YOU.

Okay. Tell me why they need to tell Shepard the background and usage of the thermal clips in the middle of a battle, when they can just say "Here's a clip. put it in the pistol like this and shoot"?

Oh, right. They don't. They assume they player isn't an idiot and can actually read the Codex.

That "argument" was sooo hard. Should I explain why they shouldn't need to tell Shepard how the Normandy works down to every single component too?

They don't need to tell the background. That's what the codex is for.

But soemthing like "Things changed while you were out Sheppard. Weapons now use thermal clips. Just pop one in and your good to go!" from Miranada is simple enough, no?

Actually, the game makes it clear from early on that Shepard knows what a thermal clip is and that the change happened before he died. One of his first words after coming back is to mention how his gun is out of thermal clips.

Which is odd, because IIRC, they were introduced after....

Eitehr way, that's a minor nitpick, not a real problem.
But yo uguys insist of nitpickign and going on wild tangets instead of tangling with the elephant in the room.

[aridor1570]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

No youhaven't

Sure, I didn't, but the counter arguments are still around and I don't need to redirect you to them, even Swifty has a nice video explaining one of them.

[Notlikeyoucare]

aridor1570 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

They don't need to tell the background. That's what the codex is for.

But soemthing like "Things changed while you were out Sheppard. Weapons now use thermal clips. Just pop one in and your good to go!" from Miranada is simple enough, no?

Taht ties in new mechanics with the polot rather nicely and simply.

You counter-argument is so pathetic it's laughable. Next time, try gettign the gist of hte argument insted of alwas getting things wrong and going into absurdity.

Try to invest in a spellchecker, because I can barely understand what the hell it is that you're trying to say.

Also, I think Shepard can grasp the possibility that things have change when they tell him how long he's been out.

Your arguments have barely any foundations to begin with. You know. Stupid question gets a stupid answer? That's what you get when you're complaining about such trivial things.

Yaday ,yada,y yada...all fine and well, but it doesn't really adress my point.

You claimed it's stupid and bad to include such explanation in the tutorial (it wil ltake too long, be too boring, doesn't belong there), and have just been proven wrong.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...
The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

Oh they'll try. They will try.
And we will have a few laughs.

[Whatever42]

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

Hmm, never thought about this, but it's a good point. I don't think the problem is with the Collectors being able to locate a Reaper IFF. We can assume that the Reapers would give their new proxy some ability here. The bigger issue is, why weren't they able to use the IFF to remove the derelict Reaper in the first place? 

The electromagnetic emmissions from the proto-star might have blocked them.

And as to the above points, there are several possible explanations:

1) Who said that the Collectors were the first inhabitants. Do you think all those ships accumulated over the last 50k years alone?

2) The relay would have been programmed to recognize Reaper IFF. Why would the Reapers have changed any codes over the last 37 millions years ago?

3) Who knows how Reapers communicate. The consciousness appears to be able to instantly communicate across any distance. Perhaps the derelict Reaper firmware updates on schedule.

In the terminator series, if Skynet has no fear of paradoxes, why not just send another terminator to a couple years before the last terminator? It would have saved a lot of problems.

Name a sci-fi or fantasy movie/television show and I can pick at unanswered questions until the cows come home. You just have to accept that not everything is explained to the reader or the characters. Some things are a mystery. That actually applies to RL too.

[littlezack]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...
Just stop replying, he wont listen to reasoning and he's too arrogant to face the fact that he lost this argument.

What argument?

That ME2 suffers from moments of very bad writing? that is an argument I cannot possibly loose, since it's already established as a fact.

Your opinion is not fact, all of the so-called "Plot holes" have been talked to death and proven wrong.

The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

Yeah, I will give you that one. I understand why it happened from a story perspective - the plot needed them all to leave. They could have come up with a better reason, though.

[Lotion Soronarr]

aridor1570 wrote...
Sure, I didn't, but the counter arguments are still around and I don't need to redirect you to them, even Swifty has a nice video explaining one of them.

Seen them, discussed them, dismissed them. Next.

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

Hmm, never thought about this, but it's a good point. I don't think the problem is with the Collectors being able to locate a Reaper IFF. We can assume that the Reapers would give their new proxy some ability here. The bigger issue is, why weren't they able to use the IFF to remove the derelict Reaper in the first place? 

If the Collectors are using a similar IFF, then they perhaps can receive that signal which was embedded in the radiation bleeding, since they could know the signal's origin and purpose. Or maybe it's just a standard thing the Reapers have used for a long time.

As for the derelict Reaper, I'd imagine that the killing blow (it was shot where the Reaper equivalent of a head is) rendered it impossible for it to trigger the IFF signal. Perhaps it was caught by surprise. And then the other Reapers couldn't track it down because it wasn't broadcasting a signal.

That's my take, anyway.

[Il Divo]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The electromagnetic emmissions from the proto-star might have blocked them.

It's actually been a while since I went through my codex. Does it ever say anything about the effect which emmissions can have on tracking software (or whatever we want to call it)?

[Whatever42]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

Well, it occurs when you try to travel to a new location so its not unexplained or nowhere. That they crammed the whole squad into a shuttle can't be explained. It was a cheesy plot device. Not that those don't happen occassionally but they should have at least had the decency to hang a lantern on it.

Again, people admit there plot holes. We just think some people are looking ridiculously hard for others and seeing them where they don't exist. We also don't think that the plot holes we do see are terribly important. This one you mentioned did have me roll my eyes a bit, I admit.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

Hmm, never thought about this, but it's a good point. I don't think the problem is with the Collectors being able to locate a Reaper IFF. We can assume that the Reapers would give their new proxy some ability here. The bigger issue is, why weren't they able to use the IFF to remove the derelict Reaper in the first place? 

The electromagnetic emmissions from the proto-star might have blocked them.

And as to the above points, there are several possible explanations:

1) Who said that the Collectors were the first inhabitants. Do you think all those ships accumulated over the last 50k years alone?

2) The relay would have been programmed to recognize Reaper IFF. Why would the Reapers have changed any codes over the last 37 millions years ago?

3) Who knows how Reapers communicate. The consciousness appears to be able to instantly communicate across any distance. Perhaps the derelict Reaper firmware updates on schedule.

In the terminator series, if Skynet has no fear of paradoxes, why not just send another terminator to a couple years before the last terminator? It would have saved a lot of problems.

Name a sci-fi or fantasy movie/television show and I can pick at unanswered questions until the cows come home. You just have to accept that not everything is explained to the reader or the characters. Some things are a mystery. That actually applies to RL too.

Pan's Labirynth did a very good job with exposition. I don't hate the story of ME 2 because it isn't perfect, I hate it because it isn't good. There is something wrong with the story at every single fundemental moment in the plot. The same is not true with every other piece of fiction.

[Il Divo]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

Well, it occurs when you try to travel to a new location so its not unexplained or nowhere. That they crammed the whole squad into a shuttle can't be explained. It was a cheesy plot device. Not that those don't happen occassionally but they should have at least had the decency to hang a lantern on it.

Again, people admit there plot holes. We just think some people are looking ridiculously hard for others and seeing them where they don't exist. We also don't think that the plot holes we do see are terribly important. This one you mentioned did have me roll my eyes a bit, I admit.

As always, agreed completely with this post. I also have to admit that the shuttle to nowhere did feel like a slight insult to my intelligence.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yaday ,yada,y yada...all fine and well, but it doesn't really adress my point.

You claimed it's stupid and bad to include such explanation in the tutorial (it wil ltake too long, be too boring, doesn't belong there), and have just been proven wrong.

They have? All I can see is your whining and childish bickering.

A tutorial is simply there to teach the player the basics. If the player wants to learn more, he/she can resort to the Codex. 

That's how it has always been. ME1 did it. ME2 did it.

Your so called "arguments" have so far just been "lolno" on all occasions. That's not a debate. That's the equivalent of you putting your fingers in your ears ad starts humming to yourself.

[Il Divo]

Someone With Mass wrote...


As for the derelict Reaper, I'd imagine that the killing blow (it was shot where the Reaper equivalent of a head is) rendered it impossible for it to trigger the IFF signal. Perhaps it was caught by surprise. And then the other Reapers couldn't track it down because it wasn't broadcasting a signal.

That's my take, anyway.

It's possible, but it's still vague. We definitely could have used more exposition on that, especially when we consider that the IFF itself was still intact, which raises the question of where does it transmit from?

[Notlikeyoucare]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

The unexplained mission to nowhere. It is the biggest and most obvious plothole in the story. That one is utterly impossible to refute.

Well, it occurs when you try to travel to a new location so its not unexplained or nowhere. That they crammed the whole squad into a shuttle can't be explained. It was a cheesy plot device. Not that those don't happen occassionally but they should have at least had the decency to hang a lantern on it.

Again, people admit there plot holes. We just think some people are looking ridiculously hard for others and seeing them where they don't exist. We also don't think that the plot holes we do see are terribly important. This one you mentioned did have me roll my eyes a bit, I admit.

See, I am not intentionly looking for them, they appear naturally because I'm thinking about the story as its happening. Every single question I've asked is something that occured to me the first time I played the game. In some cases, I actually tried NOT to think about them because the story began to annoy me at every turn. The game was a sloppy written mess from beggining to end credits, and by the time they were rolling, I was questioning my purchase and wondering why in the hell I took the critics advice on this being " a good story".

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

It's possible, but it's still vague. We definitely could have used more exposition on that, especially when we consider that the IFF itself was still intact, which raises the question of where does it transmit from?

I dunno. I haven't seen the inside of a Reaper in that kind of detail. 

Perhaps its communication systems where damaged in the attack.