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[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Reapers have this signal. The Collectors have this signal. When the Normandy tests the IFF, they are broadcasting this signal. The Collectors show up. Happy?

And seriously, just drop your point about how the Reapers were implied to be mechanical. It's not a retcon. If you want to believe it's bad writing, go ahead. Just be aware that you have no basis for saying that. And please do not just copy and paste more quotes from Sovereign.

He says pinnacle of evolution. Organic species evolve. Not machines. And everyone else has raised valid points. You are just wrong.

1. Supposition.

2.  Vigil calls them "machines" therefore, thats all we can assume they are. We don't know how Vigil knew this because the story never bothered to explain how. SHepard is the only one we know to be speculating

3. Evolve is completely interchangeable with any other word that implies progression. Such as "Technology advancement"

4. Sovereign explodes we never see any kind of organic material like the stuff in the feeding tubes.

5. What about the chunk that hits Shepard, where's the goo?

6. If they consider the Sovereign to be no more than Geth Warships, then the materials they collected (less than half, but still alot considering its size) were purely mechanical, no traces of organic material.whatsoever. Whats that, the pieces they found didn't have any organic components in them? How convenient.

1...what? How is what I said a supposition? Are you disputing that the Reaper IFF is a signal?

2. And how would Vigil know if the Reapers were partly organic? Did he witness the construction of a Reaper Core like EDI? THAT is a supposition.

3. Then why didn't Sovereign use another word? Why did he use evolution when the world evolution was created to explain an organic process?

4. We don't know where the organic goo is stored, besides the fact that it is in the Reaper Core. A shell is then placed over the Reaper Core that is purely mechanical. This was confirmed in a developer interview.

5. That was not a piece from the Reaper Core.

6. Watch Sovereign blow up again. He explodes from the middle, where the Reaper Core would be. It would have thus been obliterated.

Try again...or actually, don't.

Still not good enough? Okay. "I'm forging an alliance with us and the Reapers: between organics and MACHINES" What is it this time? Saren doesn't know? He knows Sovereign better than any other. We know he isn't fully indoctrinated at this point.

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Reapers have this signal. The Collectors have this signal. When the Normandy tests the IFF, they are broadcasting this signal. The Collectors show up. Happy?

And seriously, just drop your point about how the Reapers were implied to be mechanical. It's not a retcon. If you want to believe it's bad writing, go ahead. Just be aware that you have no basis for saying that. And please do not just copy and paste more quotes from Sovereign.

He says pinnacle of evolution. Organic species evolve. Not machines. And everyone else has raised valid points. You are just wrong.

1. Supposition.

2.  Vigil calls them "machines" therefore, thats all we can assume they are. We don't know how Vigil knew this because the story never bothered to explain how. SHepard is the only one we know to be speculating

3. Evolve is completely interchangeable with any other word that implies progression. Such as "Technology advancement"

4. Sovereign explodes we never see any kind of organic material like the stuff in the feeding tubes.

5. What about the chunk that hits Shepard, where's the goo?

6. If they consider the Sovereign to be no more than Geth Warships, then the materials they collected (less than half, but still alot considering its size) were purely mechanical, no traces of organic material.whatsoever. Whats that, the pieces they found didn't have any organic components in them? How convenient.

1...what? How is what I said a supposition? Are you disputing that the Reaper IFF is a signal?

2. And how would Vigil know if the Reapers were partly organic? Did he witness the construction of a Reaper Core like EDI? THAT is a supposition.

3. Then why didn't Sovereign use another word? Why did he use evolution when the world evolution was created to explain an organic process?

4. We don't know where the organic goo is stored, besides the fact that it is in the Reaper Core. A shell is then placed over the Reaper Core that is purely mechanical. This was confirmed in a developer interview.

5. That was not a piece from the Reaper Core.

6. Watch Sovereign blow up again. He explodes from the middle, where the Reaper Core would be. It would have thus been obliterated.

Try again...or actually, don't.

Still not good enough? Okay. "I'm forging an alliance with us and the Reapers: between organics and MACHINES" What is it this time? Saren doesn't know? He knows Sovereign better than any other. We know he isn't fully indoctrinated at this point.

Why would Saren know what Sovereign is composed of?

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Have you played ME3? No.
Was it of any use agaisnt the Collectors? No.
What can is possilby be used for? You have no idea.
Does TIM evne know about it?

Again, the cipher does not justify brinign back shep.

The cipher and the Protean beacons were apparently enough for the Reapers to want his corpse.

Yet, they blow his ship up and don't bother searching his body?

Yet, they hired the Shadow Broker to get it. Also, that fact they have to look through an entire planet  with the alliance about to come for a rescue don't give them much time to look.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Something I brought up in the thread earlier that never got answered : This may seem like an insignificant comment, but how does the IFF of a 37 million year old Reaper transmit the location of the Normandy to the 50,000 year old Collectors? Did they know of its existance? If so, why didn't they clean up like Vigil said the Reapers do? What, did they find it and rig it with tracking software to track the first people who randomly stumbled onto its whereabouts and decided to install it in their ship?

The Reaper IFF is a signal. Reapers have this signal. The Collectors have this signal. When the Normandy tests the IFF, they are broadcasting this signal. The Collectors show up. Happy?

And seriously, just drop your point about how the Reapers were implied to be mechanical. It's not a retcon. If you want to believe it's bad writing, go ahead. Just be aware that you have no basis for saying that. And please do not just copy and paste more quotes from Sovereign.

He says pinnacle of evolution. Organic species evolve. Not machines. And everyone else has raised valid points. You are just wrong.

1. Supposition.

2.  Vigil calls them "machines" therefore, thats all we can assume they are. We don't know how Vigil knew this because the story never bothered to explain how. SHepard is the only one we know to be speculating

3. Evolve is completely interchangeable with any other word that implies progression. Such as "Technology advancement"

4. Sovereign explodes we never see any kind of organic material like the stuff in the feeding tubes.

5. What about the chunk that hits Shepard, where's the goo?

6. If they consider the Sovereign to be no more than Geth Warships, then the materials they collected (less than half, but still alot considering its size) were purely mechanical, no traces of organic material.whatsoever. Whats that, the pieces they found didn't have any organic components in them? How convenient.

1...what? How is what I said a supposition? Are you disputing that the Reaper IFF is a signal?

2. And how would Vigil know if the Reapers were partly organic? Did he witness the construction of a Reaper Core like EDI? THAT is a supposition.

3. Then why didn't Sovereign use another word? Why did he use evolution when the world evolution was created to explain an organic process?

4. We don't know where the organic goo is stored, besides the fact that it is in the Reaper Core. A shell is then placed over the Reaper Core that is purely mechanical. This was confirmed in a developer interview.

5. That was not a piece from the Reaper Core.

6. Watch Sovereign blow up again. He explodes from the middle, where the Reaper Core would be. It would have thus been obliterated.

Try again...or actually, don't.

Still not good enough? Okay. "I'm forging an alliance with us and the Reapers: between organics and MACHINES" What is it this time? Saren doesn't know? He knows Sovereign better than any other. We know he isn't fully indoctrinated at this point.

And yet he still didn't tell you how they were made.. So no Retcon.

[littlezack]

Saren knows about what Sovereign lets him know. Also, without knowing the exact layout of a Reaper's insides and how much of it is habitable by slaves, it's impossible to know if Saren could even get to the part of Sovereign that's organic and know that it was there.

[Darth Krytie]

Actually, there's nothing I recall about the definition of "machine" that outright excludes having organic parts. Just saying. Example: Wraith ships in Stargate Atlantis. They're machines, they're ships, but they're part organic and are grown.

[dreman9999]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999, i told you yesterday not to bother posting anything until YOU understand what a retcon is. You making **** up about what a retcon is doesn't cut it. Google it, read it, and try to understand. Then maybe search some examples in other games or movies. And when you finally get it, then come back here with your new found knowledge.

A retroactive continuity is when you're erasing or replacing pre-existing facts about characters, plots, events or any other item and/or pretend like the outcome was different or it didn't happen at all.

I have yet to see anything in ME2 that does this in a crystal clear way.

Oh i'll give you one of the top of my head. Shepard knowing what thermal clips are. Thank you.

Thermal clips were made during the eden prime war. Shepard die during the eden pime war.So, being that  Spectre are first to get their hand on experimental tech.....Shepard may of learn about them and use before he/she died.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I know what TIM sez. It's compelte garbage.

Makes no sense...at all. In reality, people would consider him mad for such redicolous plan and stage a coup.

TIM saying "you're unique" is no explnation if you cannot explain why he's so uber-unique. And all your attempts to do so have failed.
So you default back to "the game tells us he is!"

You don't like their reason to bring Shepard back. Too bad.

That does not make their reason invalid.

Givne that the reason makes no sense and it's not backed up by anything....yes. That makes the reason compeltely invalid.

Try again.

I already stated it. TIM wants to use Shepard as a pawn to up lift the human race above the other races to a point of total control due to the reaper war.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

His brain was cooked, liquified and splattered and loost any and all activity and information stored in it...and there's even before you take into acout decomposition and oxygen deprivatio nand no electrical activity.

Sheps ressurection is about as likely as taking a dump, letting it out in the sun to dry out for a day or two, and then turning it into a sentient living being.
An asspull of epic proprtion, a totally unnecessary narrative device that was never utilized not even close to it's full potential.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Have you played ME3? No.
Was it of any use agaisnt the Collectors? No.
What can is possilby be used for? You have no idea.
Does TIM evne know about it?

Again, the cipher does not justify brinign back shep.

The cipher and the Protean beacons were apparently enough for the Reapers to want his corpse.

Yet, they blow his ship up and don't bother searching his body?

Yet, they hired the Shadow Broker to get it. Also, that fact they have to look through an entire planet  with the alliance about to come for a rescue don't give them much time to look.

Shouldnt' be that hard. Track his trajectory, sned a shuttle to pick him up. 10 minutes tops.

Instead they go after the body after days (if not over a week) of decompositon.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

dreman9999, i told you yesterday not to bother posting anything until YOU understand what a retcon is. You making **** up about what a retcon is doesn't cut it. Google it, read it, and try to understand. Then maybe search some examples in other games or movies. And when you finally get it, then come back here with your new found knowledge.

A retroactive continuity is when you're erasing or replacing pre-existing facts about characters, plots, events or any other item and/or pretend like the outcome was different or it didn't happen at all.

I have yet to see anything in ME2 that does this in a crystal clear way.

Oh i'll give you one of the top of my head. Shepard knowing what thermal clips are. Thank you.

Liara. I have never seen another character as inconsistent in any other piece of fiction.

A person changing because someone they love is gone is a retcon?

[Lotion Soronarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Givne that the reason makes no sense and it's not backed up by anything....yes. That makes the reason compeltely invalid.

Try again.

I already stated it. TIM wants to use Shepard as a pawn to up lift the human race above the other races to a point of total control due to the reaper war.

And I already proven it's total garbage and a plan that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

..actually it does make sense..if you're part ofhe Grand Church of Sheppard. Which 99,9999% of hte galaxy isn't.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

Modifié par Notlikeyoucare, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:50 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Have you played ME3? No.
Was it of any use agaisnt the Collectors? No.
What can is possilby be used for? You have no idea.
Does TIM evne know about it?

Again, the cipher does not justify brinign back shep.

The cipher and the Protean beacons were apparently enough for the Reapers to want his corpse.

Yet, they blow his ship up and don't bother searching his body?

Yet, they hired the Shadow Broker to get it. Also, that fact they have to look through an entire planet  with the alliance about to come for a rescue don't give them much time to look.

Shouldnt' be that hard. Track his trajectory, sned a shuttle to pick him up. 10 minutes tops.

Instead they go after the body after days (if not over a week) of decompositon.

You don't understand. 
Sheps body is a object hidden with many large objects that are spamed multiple place on the planet serface.
Add in the fact that mutiple Alliance ships are coming very soon, land a huge ship and leaving it and back, and the fact they don't want to be seen any others and their protection is down when any ship is planet side and you'll see It would take way more then 10 mins.

In short they don't have time.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

Here's the thing. If someone told you they can make you better but to do that they had to grind you up to a pulp first......Would you let them?

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

Here's the thing. If someone told you they can make you better but to do that they had to grind you up to a pulp first......Would you let them?

Please elaborate.

[dreman9999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Givne that the reason makes no sense and it's not backed up by anything....yes. That makes the reason compeltely invalid.

Try again.

I already stated it. TIM wants to use Shepard as a pawn to up lift the human race above the other races to a point of total control due to the reaper war.

And I already proven it's total garbage and a plan that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

..actually it does make sense..if you're part ofhe Grand Church of Sheppard. Which 99,9999% of hte galaxy isn't.

No you did not. And that's right with TIM plans which are to servive the reapers, uplifting the human race and control the other races. And don't tell me TIM does not want that. Because that what he wants clearly.
The faced that Shepard kill a reaper is fact allow that he/she is the best advisor in the reaper war. All the other races will deffer to Shepard to be able to take down the reapers. And to get to Shepard they need to deal with the alliance, with is humanity. The Alliance will make sure they are the strongest voice in all the war meetings, human interest is brought through, and humanmanity survives. This will insure human dominance after the war.

So if their is a flaw in the details, which they arn't, what would stop thid from happening?

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

Here's the thing. If someone told you they can make you better but to do that they had to grind you up to a pulp first......Would you let them?

Please elaborate.

On the collector base, human were grinded up to be made to be a reapers.... That was what the reapers consider making humanity better. Would you let them make you better?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

His brain was cooked, liquified and splattered and loost any and all activity and information stored in it...and there's even before you take into acout decomposition and oxygen deprivatio nand no electrical activity.

Sheps ressurection is about as likely as taking a dump, letting it out in the sun to dry out for a day or two, and then turning it into a sentient living being.
An asspull of epic proprtion, a totally unnecessary narrative device that was never utilized not even close to it's full potential.

Again, in a universe where nanotechnology and FTL flight exists, reanimating dead cells isn't that big of a leap.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

I'd like to see you come up with something better.

And please, keep the "it's a failure" BS to yourself. Yes, we know that you think it's lame. But here's the thing: It contributes exactly nothing to the topic.

[Whatever42]

dreman9999 wrote...

You don't understand. 
Sheps body is a object hidden with many large objects that are spamed multiple place on the planet serface.
Add in the fact that mutiple Alliance ships are coming very soon, land a huge ship and leaving it and back, and the fact they don't want to be seen any others and their protection is down when any ship is planet side and you'll see It would take way more then 10 mins.

In short they don't have time.

Would they even know at the time that Shepard was dead? Sure, we got a close up of Shep being blasted towards the planet with a lot of debris but they didn't. They likely didn't know he was dead until later.

[Whatever42]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

I'd like to see you come up with something better.

And please, keep the "it's a failure" BS to yourself. Yes, we know that you think it's lame. But here's the thing: It contributes exactly nothing to the topic.

I regard it as 80+ pages of Lotion ass-pulls making ridiculous far-fetched claims myself. But that's what trolls do. I just wish he were better at it. Now Smudboy, that was a troll. 

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:07 .

[Someone With Mass]

dreman9999 wrote...
On the collector base, human were grinded up to be made to be a reapers.... That was what the reapers consider making humanity better. Would you let them make you better?

Or outright control your actions, for that matter.

I wouldn't buy that at all. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


I regard it as 80+ pages of Lotion ass-pulls making ridiculous far-fetched claims myself. But that's what trolls do. I just wish he were better at it. Now Smudboy, that was a troll. 

Well, lotion has dragged another thread on for 131 pages so far... I'd say he is a rather successful troll.