6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

If the suit provided no protection against reentry, then Shepard would have been incinerated. Since neither Shepard nor the suit were incinerated (in LotSB, you see the state of the old N7 armor in Liara's apartment), we must conclude that the suit provided at least some protection (which is still better than none). Whether or not that was done by the kinetic barriers or the suit's plates is another debate.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or, they could have written the whole thing in such a way as to not require the impossible... 

How, exactly?

If it's impossible, it's still impossible even if you change it.

As in, have Shepard drifting in a coma with his locater beacon knocked out. The Shadow Broker picks him up, and makes a deal with the Collectors to sell him. Only to have Cerberus break him out and take him to see TIM.

2 year time lapse. Establishment of antagonist. Natural plot development.

This is a cinematic experience, not a novel. Shepard being flung away from an exploding spaceship towards certain death makes a much more exciting scene.

Again, movie writing is different than novel writing. They have different objectives, such as scenes that are visually exciting and fast paced.

I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

[Whatever42]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


I regard it as 80+ pages of Lotion ass-pulls making ridiculous far-fetched claims myself. But that's what trolls do. I just wish he were better at it. Now Smudboy, that was a troll. 

Well, lotion has dragged another thread on for 131 pages so far... I'd say he is a rather successful troll.

Well, not just him but if someone keeps posting, people will keep answering, very true. 

But Smud could get people really angry, even seriously enraged. I might answer Lotion but he's too shallow to evoke any serious emotion. I think he needs a better writer.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

[Whatever42]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

Well, there can be too much of that but it does often happen, yes. But I still think the quality of the writing is quite good, although I have given my criticisms of the main plot.

Again, ME2 has a 50% completion rate, compared to a 10% RDR completion rate. That's because of their approach and writing. Critics also have commented on the high quality of the writing. So you may not like the writing, and I respect your opinion, but you should realize that most other people do feel differently.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or, they could have written the whole thing in such a way as to not require the impossible... 

How, exactly?

If it's impossible, it's still impossible even if you change it.

As in, have Shepard drifting in a coma with his locater beacon knocked out. The Shadow Broker picks him up, and makes a deal with the Collectors to sell him. Only to have Cerberus break him out and take him to see TIM.

2 year time lapse. Establishment of antagonist. Natural plot development.

DING!  We have a winner!

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or, they could have written the whole thing in such a way as to not require the impossible... 

How, exactly?

If it's impossible, it's still impossible even if you change it.

As in, have Shepard drifting in a coma with his locater beacon knocked out. The Shadow Broker picks him up, and makes a deal with the Collectors to sell him. Only to have Cerberus break him out and take him to see TIM.

2 year time lapse. Establishment of antagonist. Natural plot development.

This is a cinematic experience, not a novel. Shepard being flung away from an exploding spaceship towards certain death makes a much more exciting scene.

Again, movie writing is different than novel writing. They have different objectives, such as scenes that are visually exciting and fast paced.

I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

What happened are the planet entry is a blind spot, so no matter what, no one is going to know the full details.

[Whatever42]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

If the suit provided no protection against reentry, then Shepard would have been incinerated. Since neither Shepard nor the suit were incinerated (in LotSB, you see the state of the old N7 armor in Liara's apartment), we must conclude that the suit provided at least some protection (which is still better than none). Whether or not that was done by the kinetic barriers or the suit's plates is another debate.

No. Entry speeds would determine the amount of friction damage. Again, if you take someone to the top of the atmo and simply let them go, there would not be much of an entry burn. The friction of the atmo would counter the acceleration of gravity and the person would reach a terminal velocity.

True, there would be some entry burn - the atmo up top is thin, allowing greater speeds, but it wouldn't be like the space shuttle reentering the atmo or a meteor. Those objects are going very, very fast.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

Well, there can be too much of that but it does often happen, yes. But I still think the quality of the writing is quite good, although I have given my criticisms of the main plot.

Again, ME2 has a 50% completion rate, compared to a 10% RDR completion rate. That's because of their approach and writing. Critics also have commented on the high quality of the writing. So you may not like the writing, and I respect your opinion, but you should realize that most other people do feel differently.

I don't think the writing is bad.  It's better than most of what's on TV, sadly. 

I think the writing in some instances could use improvement. 

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or, they could have written the whole thing in such a way as to not require the impossible... 

How, exactly?

If it's impossible, it's still impossible even if you change it.

As in, have Shepard drifting in a coma with his locater beacon knocked out. The Shadow Broker picks him up, and makes a deal with the Collectors to sell him. Only to have Cerberus break him out and take him to see TIM.

2 year time lapse. Establishment of antagonist. Natural plot development.

This is a cinematic experience, not a novel. Shepard being flung away from an exploding spaceship towards certain death makes a much more exciting scene.

Again, movie writing is different than novel writing. They have different objectives, such as scenes that are visually exciting and fast paced.

I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

What happened are the planet entry is a plot-hole so no matter what, no one is going to know the full details.

Fixed.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Who ever said they eat organics? It is well established that they harvet them and no one knows why. No, not even say why they harvest organics. That was one of the big mystery of the reapers in ME1.

[Notlikeyoucare]

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Who ever said they eat organics? It is well established that they harvet them and no one knows why. No, not even say why they harvest organics. That was one of the big mystery of the reapers in ME1.

That's it. We're done here.

[111987]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Your whole point is wrong, because there hasn't been an inconsistency. You assuming the Reapers were purely mechanical is just that; an assumption. Seriously, stop saying it's inconsistent or a retcon. Say that you don't like the direction the plot went. There would be no issue here if you just did that.

I don't know where this whole idea of Reapers eating organics came from anyways. Who said that, Shepard? Once again, he has no idea what the Reaper's plans are, so he has no basis for that statement. That's only his interepretaiton of it.

Saren was fully indoctrinated, yes. That is irrelevant. That only means he's been mind controlled the believe what the Reapers are doing is right. Indoctrination doesn't mean the indoctrinated person magically knows everything about the Reapers.

And just because Sovereign says we are beyond their comprehension doesn't mean that's actually true...the whole idea of the Reapers was written by humans at Bioware, so we can comprehend their motives. Sovereign's answer was just a non-answer, he feels so superior to us he isn't even going to bother explaining.

The Geth are going to be destroyed. Not harvested. Only humans are being harvested. We don't know why yet. All other organic life is going to be eradicated. The Geth included.

[dreman9999]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Who ever said they eat organics? It is well established that they harvet them and no one knows why. No, not even say why they harvest organics. That was one of the big mystery of the reapers in ME1.

That's it. We're done here.

Agein, who said the reapers eat organics?
Also, devour has more than one meaning.
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/devour

1
: to eat up greedily or ravenously

2
: to use up or destroy as if by eating <we are devouring the world's resources>

3
: to prey upon <devoured by guilt>

4
: to enjoy avidly <devours books>

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 septembre 2011 - 06:10 .

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

Really? Mass Effect 2's plot makes no sense because you've sat here for 80 pages criticizing it? Would the same logic apply if I did the same in a thread about Dragon Age?

[Notlikeyoucare]

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

111987 wrote...

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

Well now, heres something interesting.

"I understand that the Reapers need organics"

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both the weaknesses of neither."

"The Reapers don't use organics, they devour and discard them as soon as the conquest is over you'll be cast aside"


Saren doesn't deny this, he acknowledges it

So they don't use us to procreate then?

This brings up an important question: If the Reapers believe that a combination of both is the pinnical, Why don't they also want to slaughter all synthetic life aka Geth?

My god, this is a mess, can somebody take 5 minutes to write this thing please?

EDIT: And why haven't they done so in the past? All they've said is that they exterminate organics, what about sentient machines?

The Reapers 'devour' organics...doesn't that suggest the Reapers are using them for something?

Are you totally ignorant of the games? The Reapers were going to slaughter the Geth! They saw them as tools, and were actually offended by them. This is stated in ME1. In ME2, Harbinger says about Legion "Geth: an annoyance, limited utitlity"

You are drawing conclusions based off of statements by people who have NO IDEA what the true nature of the Reapers are. Saren was a tool.

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Your whole point is wrong, because there hasn't been an inconsistency. You assuming the Reapers were purely mechanical is just that; an assumption. Seriously, stop saying it's inconsistent or a retcon. Say that you don't like the direction the plot went. There would be no issue here if you just did that.

I don't know where this whole idea of Reapers eating organics came from anyways. Who said that, Shepard? Once again, he has no idea what the Reaper's plans are, so he has no basis for that statement. That's only his interepretaiton of it.

Saren was fully indoctrinated, yes. That is irrelevant. That only means he's been mind controlled the believe what the Reapers are doing is right. Indoctrination doesn't mean the indoctrinated person magically knows everything about the Reapers.

And just because Sovereign says we are beyond their comprehension doesn't mean that's actually true...the whole idea of the Reapers was written by humans at Bioware, so we can comprehend their motives. Sovereign's answer was just a non-answer, he feels so superior to us he isn't even going to bother explaining.

The Geth are going to be destroyed. Not harvested. Only humans are being harvested. We don't know why yet. All other organic life is going to be eradicated. The Geth included.

...... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. Yes, Shepard said it, Saren acknowledged it. I never said that Saren being indoctrinated means he knows everything about the Reapers, it means that Sovereign would be able to control what hes saying if it is Sovereign speaking at all. Saren says he understands the Reapers, so does he know or not? Which is it? is he lying? If so, what are his motives to lie? Again is Sovereign lying? if so, what are his motives?  If Reapers are both in-organic and organic why wouldn't they harvest both Machine and organic What makes organics worth harvesting over machines?

See the info dump at the end of ME 2 doesn't provide an answer to these questions. There isn't enough inquiry on SHepards part for this to make sense because the question of what part of this is the truth, and was who was lying, who was speculating and what the facts are, aren't addressed, properly subverted, on EDI or Shepard's part speculating or explaining what we are actually supposed to know.  The game just handwaves them and moves on. It also doesn't explain how ALL Reapers are the same just by scanning one.

[Il Divo]

Xeranx wrote...

His argument is flawed based on the fact he's attributing his thought processes to that of what is supposed to be out of the realm of understanding.  It's supposed to be on the basis of: "What is this?",  "I can't imagine what this does", "We've been at this for years and we're still no closer to understanding this...thing than we were when we first encountered it".

If Sovereign is communicating to Shepard, as the character we can assume that he is trying to use terms which Shepard can understand.

Attributing Sovereigns speech to arrogance doesn't make it so.  As someone else asked, what reason does Sovereign have to lie?  Saren spoke about how Sovereign viewed the Geth.  They are merely tools.    Actually taking this to a ridiculous route for a bit, imagine you have a bunch of tools that are alive and function however they do, but don't know what real purpose they can serve.  If you're building something do you look at your tools as objects that have feelings or a means to a greater end that you know about and said tools probably can't comprehend?  That hammer might think you arrogant for using him to bang on an object whose purpose he doesn't know about, but you aren't feeling the least bit haughty about completing your goal.

In other words, Squee, and anyone else who takes that view, is humanizing Sovereign.  That's the wrong thing to do knowing that we still have ME3 to contend with.  

I would agree that humanizing Sovereign is a mistake, but his speech itself presents us with the problem. "Pinnacle of evolution", "we have no beginning, we have no end". What do these things mean? Hell, as humans, we probably couldn't agree on the exact meaning. How do we interpret this from a machine? My point is that we cannot determine that Sovereign claims to be a machine based on any of his statements.  All that information is provided by secondary (and fallible) sources, including Shepard, Saren, and Vigil. We always have to recall the distinction between "x is true" and "character A thinks x is true".

And now I'm going to wait for people to tear my analogous story to pieces rather than pay attention to what I'm actually saying.  Not saying that's what you'll do.

Eh, I'll probably try and fail. Let's leave that for others to decide.

[Il Divo]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

We don't even know the true nature of the Reapers yet. Thats my whole point: its inconsistent, There is no A to B correlation any of it. One minute the Reapers eat organics yet they discard them, wtf? Saren is fully indoctrinated at this point and he says he understands. Was he lying? Did Sovereign make him lie? If so, why? He has no motive to lie. The Reapers consider the Geth to be annoyances? Ok, if the Geth are limited are they going to eat them? They are both organic and mechanic right? Why wouldn't they? If the Geth are so un-advanced to the point of being nothing worth harvesting, why are they harvesting advanced organic life to eat if they've already advanced passed that point? If they aren't, then how are they beyond our comprehension?

Let me provide a very basic example to demonstrate why Saren's claims are not inconsistent.

Let's say when you were a child, your parents convinced you that Japan doesn't exist. You've gone your entire life with this belief and (for whatever reason) you have chosen not to doubt it; you think it's true. Does whether or not you believe in the existence of Japan actually affect whether Japan exists? The answer, quite clearly, is no.

Saren thinks Sovereign is a machine. For whatever reason, Sovereign does not provide him the intimate details of Reaper culture. Saren's belief system does not mean that the Reapers are machines. This is typically how plot twists work; new information is introduced which alters how your character might perceive events.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 septembre 2011 - 06:16 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

Really? Mass Effect 2's plot makes no sense because you've sat here for 80 pages criticizing it? Would the same logic apply if I did the same in a thread about Dragon Age?

Only if people defneding it produced 80 pages of exceptionaly contriever explanations backed up by wishfull thinking.

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol...80+ pages of people despearately trying to defend bad writing. 80 pages of flawed explanations, convoluted theories and ass-pulls.

And here we have the perfect proof that the writing was bad. If it takes 80+ pages of theories like this for the events to make even a semblance of sense, then its' already a faliure.

Really? Mass Effect 2's plot makes no sense because you've sat here for 80 pages criticizing it? Would the same logic apply if I did the same in a thread about Dragon Age?

Only if people defneding it produced 80 pages of exceptionaly contriever explanations backed up by wishfull thinking.

It's a shame that designation would be considered subjective. No doubt, you would be one of those "fanboys" claiming that the storyline is fine, while I claim to have proven the plot sucks.

I recommend you get off your high horse. They don't add credibility to your arguments.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

If the suit provided no protection against reentry, then Shepard would have been incinerated. Since neither Shepard nor the suit were incinerated (in LotSB, you see the state of the old N7 armor in Liara's apartment), we must conclude that the suit provided at least some protection (which is still better than none). Whether or not that was done by the kinetic barriers or the suit's plates is another debate.

No. Entry speeds would determine the amount of friction damage. Again, if you take someone to the top of the atmo and simply let them go, there would not be much of an entry burn. The friction of the atmo would counter the acceleration of gravity and the person would reach a terminal velocity.

True, there would be some entry burn - the atmo up top is thin, allowing greater speeds, but it wouldn't be like the space shuttle reentering the atmo or a meteor. Those objects are going very, very fast.

Except we SEE Sheppard burning and except we're TOLD that he had burns all over his body (and is he got thos burns despite hte suit, then his insides were cooked).

[Lotion Soronarr]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I don't give a rat's butt if it's a "cinematic experience".  You don't sacrifice the quality of your writing, or the "does this make any effing sense?" filter, to "BUT IT LOOKS KEWL!" 

Well, there can be too much of that but it does often happen, yes. But I still think the quality of the writing is quite good, although I have given my criticisms of the main plot.

Again, ME2 has a 50% completion rate, compared to a 10% RDR completion rate. That's because of their approach and writing. Critics also have commented on the high quality of the writing. So you may not like the writing, and I respect your opinion, but you should realize that most other people do feel differently.

Causation DOES NOT equal correlation... and vice versa.

I can think of a dozen reason why the completion % can be different. Maybe mroe peopel enjoy Sci-fi comapred to westerns? Or maybe they didn't like the mechanics?

[Whatever42]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ppl, if oyu listen to mirandas notes, she clearly mentions burns fro matmospheric re-entry (hence the suit didn't protect), extensive trauma damage (hence hte kinetic barriers did nothing) and adnvaced decomposition (since he was dead for days before they picked him up).

If the suit provided no protection against reentry, then Shepard would have been incinerated. Since neither Shepard nor the suit were incinerated (in LotSB, you see the state of the old N7 armor in Liara's apartment), we must conclude that the suit provided at least some protection (which is still better than none). Whether or not that was done by the kinetic barriers or the suit's plates is another debate.

No. Entry speeds would determine the amount of friction damage. Again, if you take someone to the top of the atmo and simply let them go, there would not be much of an entry burn. The friction of the atmo would counter the acceleration of gravity and the person would reach a terminal velocity.

True, there would be some entry burn - the atmo up top is thin, allowing greater speeds, but it wouldn't be like the space shuttle reentering the atmo or a meteor. Those objects are going very, very fast.

Except we SEE Sheppard burning and except we're TOLD that he had burns all over his body (and is he got thos burns despite hte suit, then his insides were cooked).

See above bold, highlighted italized text. Thanks.