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[Someone With Mass]

I think an asteroid is already traveling at very high speed when entering Earth's atmosphere.

Shepard was picking up speed just outside Alchera's atmosphere.

Its gravitational pull and atmospheric pressure are also weaker than Earth's.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 02 septembre 2011 - 09:40 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

There is also no way that running an electric current through an exotic form of matter created by exploding stars can alter the fabric of space-time.

[SpiffySquee]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

There is also no way that running an electric current through an exotic form of matter created by exploding stars can alter the fabric of space-time.

And there is no way that Kasumi could ever go for Jacob... just saying

[KotorEffect3]

Sometimes I wonder if nitpickers are capable of enjoying anything. They are the kind of people that are a pain in the ass to take to a movie.

[Gatt9]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

100k wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

@ 100k
Nothing "ignites" gas on re-entry...it's friction, as pointed out earlier,Shepard isn't the space shuttle,he is probbably moving at terminal velocity,not a couple times faster than sound...

Do you know what happens to most small asteroids that are just "floating" in space and get pulled into Earth's gravitational pull? They burn up. Its stupid to think the same thing wouldn't happen to Shepard -- and even worse to argue against it when we clearly see him burning up. 

Do you know how fast an object like that moves?
Not to mention the planet you land on has less gravity and atmospheric pressure than Earth...

He came in from high orbit,  unless the gravity was incredibly weak,  which isn't likely given that objects weren't floating,  he accelerated at an exponential(?) rate.  A human body with a sudden impact at 100mph is pretty devestating,  at the speed he'd likely obtain from high orbit he should've been seperated into a number of pieces even if he managed to reach the groud without burning up.

Human bodies are very fragile,  it's *highly* unlikely they could survive impact.

Further,  even if he was in orbit,  the absolute cold in space would've caused the fluid inside the cells themselves to freeze,  ripping the cells to shreds. 

Either way,  you're not picking up a corpse in relatively good shape.  The damage from either event is going to be fantastic.

[KotorEffect3]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

There is also no way that running an electric current through an exotic form of matter created by exploding stars can alter the fabric of space-time.

Suspension of disbelief is your friend.

[KotorEffect3]

How long have people been bickering about the whole death and ressurection sequence? The only thing that matters is that Shepard was revived, the only part that anyone should really have concerns about is Shepard's implants and that can still be addressed in ME 3. The details of how Cerberus managed to bring Shepard back from the dead are unimportant.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

There is also no way that running an electric current through an exotic form of matter created by exploding stars can alter the fabric of space-time.

You dont' say?

We KNOW how the human brain works and how data recvery works. You cannot recover something from nothing - that's a logical rule even moreso than a physcal.

When ti comes to future technoilogy...We don't really know what actually genereates half the forces in the universe. Scientists are looking for hte fabled Higgs boson and gravitrons. You can't say it's impossible for us to manipulate gravity in any way in the future. Not yet.

So no. Not the same. Even remotely.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Gatt9 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

100k wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

@ 100k
Nothing "ignites" gas on re-entry...it's friction, as pointed out earlier,Shepard isn't the space shuttle,he is probbably moving at terminal velocity,not a couple times faster than sound...

Do you know what happens to most small asteroids that are just "floating" in space and get pulled into Earth's gravitational pull? They burn up. Its stupid to think the same thing wouldn't happen to Shepard -- and even worse to argue against it when we clearly see him burning up. 

Do you know how fast an object like that moves?
Not to mention the planet you land on has less gravity and atmospheric pressure than Earth...

He came in from high orbit,  unless the gravity was incredibly weak,  which isn't likely given that objects weren't floating,  he accelerated at an exponential(?) rate.  A human body with a sudden impact at 100mph is pretty devestating,  at the speed he'd likely obtain from high orbit he should've been seperated into a number of pieces even if he managed to reach the groud without burning up.

Human bodies are very fragile,  it's *highly* unlikely they could survive impact.

Further,  even if he was in orbit,  the absolute cold in space would've caused the fluid inside the cells themselves to freeze,  ripping the cells to shreds. 

Either way,  you're not picking up a corpse in relatively good shape.  The damage from either event is going to be fantastic.

You ignore the armor,fine,but you ignore that people have fallen from great distances and lived, I saw a story where a man was knocked unconscious by a lamp and then hurled 1/2 a mile by a tornado and walked away,humans are fragile,but sometimes people just refuse to die.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Miranda, "In addition to the expected burns and internal injuries from the explosion, subject has suffered significant cellular breakdown due to long term exposure to vacuum and sub zero temperatures."

There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

So instead of at least admitting you did not understand or listen to what you were trying to quote, you just pretend my post did not happen and run off in another direction? The part of the quote you bolded had nothing to do with my argument. You think shep being resurrected is BS. You are entitled to your opinion. My argument was that you were telling people that they should just listen to what Miranda said because it proved your argument. You were flat out wrong. You obviously did not even remember what she said. Look, everyone mis-quotes things from time to time. When this happens, however, you should man up and admit it. then you can move on with your other points. Don't try to sweep it under the rug.

Missing the point man.
It's irrelevant if Shep burns or not. That's one of the side isues that you guys waste hours discussing, and yet it's useless. Since the side-issue was never the focal point.

Shep's body could have been fully in tact. If he was dead for a week it wouldn't matter anyway.

What's relevant is the state of his squishy brain.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
He came in from high orbit,  unless the gravity was incredibly weak,  which isn't likely given that objects weren't floating,  he accelerated at an exponential(?) rate.  A human body with a sudden impact at 100mph is pretty devestating,  at the speed he'd likely obtain from high orbit he should've been seperated into a number of pieces even if he managed to reach the groud without burning up.

Human bodies are very fragile,  it's *highly* unlikely they could survive impact.

Further,  even if he was in orbit,  the absolute cold in space would've caused the fluid inside the cells themselves to freeze,  ripping the cells to shreds. 

Either way,  you're not picking up a corpse in relatively good shape.  The damage from either event is going to be fantastic.

You ignore the armor,fine,but you ignore that people have fallen from great distances and lived, I saw a story where a man was knocked unconscious by a lamp and then hurled 1/2 a mile by a tornado and walked away,humans are fragile,but sometimes people just refuse to die.

Saw that one too, but notice that that's a completely different scenario.

[aznricepuff]

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shep's body could have been fully in tact. If he was dead for a week it wouldn't matter anyway.

What's relevant is the state of his squishy brain.

The planet he landed on was pretty cold, from what it looked like when you visit the Normandy crash site. Add that to the fact that there was probably little to no atmosphere (I would check the galaxy map, but I dont have ME2 installed right now), and that Shepard's suit was compromised, it's possible that his brain wouldn't have decomposed after death. If the neural connections in his brain remained relatively intact, it's conceivable that they could have salvaged his memory/personality/etc.

Modifié par aznricepuff, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There's no way the brain was salvegable in any way, shape of form.
I rest my case.

There is also no way that running an electric current through an exotic form of matter created by exploding stars can alter the fabric of space-time.

You dont' say?

We KNOW how the human brain works and how data recvery works. You cannot recover something from nothing - that's a logical rule even moreso than a physcal.

When ti comes to future technoilogy...We don't really know what actually genereates half the forces in the universe. Scientists are looking for hte fabled Higgs boson and gravitrons. You can't say it's impossible for us to manipulate gravity in any way in the future. Not yet.

So no. Not the same. Even remotely.

Impossibility A is unbelievable because what we know today says it cannot be done.

Impossibility B is believable because, while what we know today says it cannot be done, who knows what the future will bring!

That is very selective reasoning you have there. By real world standards it is impossible to change an objects mass while having it maintain it's original form. Period. Impossible is impossible. If you want to say the future may change our ability to alter the state of mass then the future may just as well change our ability to reconstruct brain cells and their stored  knowledge from goo.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

SpiffySquee wrote...


Impossibility A is unbelievable because what we know today says it cannot be done.

Impossibility B is believable because, while what we know today says it cannot be done, who knows what the future will bring!

That is very selective reasoning you have there. By real world standards it is impossible to change an objects mass while having it maintain it's original form. Period. Impossible is impossible. If you want to say the future may change our ability to alter the state of mass then the future may just as well change our ability to reconstruct brain cells and their stored  knowledge from goo.

Like I said, Grandmaster of fallacy and hypocrisy.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sometimes I wonder if nitpickers are capable of enjoying anything. They are the kind of people that are a pain in the ass to take to a movie.

The set of nitpickers and the set of nerds intersect--heavily.  The set of RPG players sits squarely in that middle ground.

[didymos1120]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Saw that one too, but notice that that's a completely different scenario.

How about these then?

http://en.wikipedia....i/Nick_Alkemade
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

[100k]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

100k wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

@ 100k
Nothing "ignites" gas on re-entry...it's friction, as pointed out earlier,Shepard isn't the space shuttle,he is probbably moving at terminal velocity,not a couple times faster than sound...

Do you know what happens to most small asteroids that are just "floating" in space and get pulled into Earth's gravitational pull? They burn up. Its stupid to think the same thing wouldn't happen to Shepard -- and even worse to argue against it when we clearly see him burning up. 

Do you know how fast an object like that moves?
Not to mention the planet you land on has less gravity and atmospheric pressure than Earth...

He came in from high orbit,  unless the gravity was incredibly weak,  which isn't likely given that objects weren't floating,  he accelerated at an exponential(?) rate.  A human body with a sudden impact at 100mph is pretty devestating,  at the speed he'd likely obtain from high orbit he should've been seperated into a number of pieces even if he managed to reach the groud without burning up.

Human bodies are very fragile,  it's *highly* unlikely they could survive impact.

Further,  even if he was in orbit,  the absolute cold in space would've caused the fluid inside the cells themselves to freeze,  ripping the cells to shreds. 

Either way,  you're not picking up a corpse in relatively good shape.  The damage from either event is going to be fantastic.

You ignore the armor,fine,but you ignore that people have fallen from great distances and lived, I saw a story where a man was knocked unconscious by a lamp and then hurled 1/2 a mile by a tornado and walked away,humans are fragile,but sometimes people just refuse to die.

Yes, occasionally people do survive from falls of, what, 300 -- 1000 feet? And in the case of a tornado, people are lifted up, and then set back down (a balance of weight + wind power). In fact, earlier this spring a man was lifted up by a tornado, and survived the fall.

We know that armor + kinetic barriers wouldn't protect the body  from friction of gravity -- because of incinerate and incineration ammo's effects on armored bipedals.

We know that a fall from orbit of a hard stone usually causes the stone to burn up -- and an organic being to either disentagrate entirely, or turn into little more than mush -- all the way through, including bone.

And yet we know that Shepard's body managed to survive the fall. That doesn't disturb me at all. What disturbs me is that the game just pretends that Shepard landed softly on the planet with minor damage (broken bones, severe cuts, burns, etc). We know that, while dead, Shepard's helmet and armor split open, exposing the corpse to a hazerdous atmosphere to organic flesh. Yet we get no explaination again.

That's why I thought it would be better for Shepard to get stuck in a damaged escape pod, and smash into the planet. We know that one of these things managed to remain intact after colliding with the planet -- and I can accept that a escape pod can withstand a tough impact like that -- because it's mostly high powered hazard friendly tech that couldn't need manual control.



But I just don't see how a human body can endure a fall from orbit. 

Modifié par 100k, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[111987]

Actually, didn't Jacob say that Shepard was just like 'meat and tubes' when he was first recovered?

[Shockwave81]

Previously I didn't mind Smudboy all that much - but his videos just go on and on and on. His 'analysis' of the Arrival DLC was contrived and full of lame jokes just to fill time.

Criticism of Harbinger? Wow, how very original! We've had more than a year's worth of memes, and Smudboy thinks it's still cool?

Sarcastic remarks about a symbol on the side of a shuttle? What the? Was that even worth mentioning in an analysis?

He's just sore because he was banned from the forums, and now he spends his days/weeks/months crafting these youtube vids to try and take revenge. What a douche.

I wonder what intellectually stimulating offerings he'll have for the world after ME3 is released!?

[Whatever42]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


You dont' say?

We KNOW how the human brain works and how data recvery works. You cannot recover something from nothing - that's a logical rule even moreso than a physcal.

When ti comes to future technoilogy...We don't really know what actually genereates half the forces in the universe. Scientists are looking for hte fabled Higgs boson and gravitrons. You can't say it's impossible for us to manipulate gravity in any way in the future. Not yet.

So no. Not the same. Even remotely.

So you don't know enough about quantum physics to know what's possible but you say that we know everything about medicine and manipulation of matter so we cannot re-construct human tissue? Even though today we have mapped scanned brain activity to specific thoughts?

Very odd.

BTW, technically no information is ever lost. You could toss a brain in a black hole and quantumly reconstruct the information from the Hawking radiation. In theory. Which is about as conceivable as FTL travel (which means not at all possible) but far, far, hugely far less conceivable than being to regenerate cells and reconstruct neural pathways. 

And the Higgs has to do with why we have mass. It has nothing to do with FTL travel. 

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:27 .

[The Silent]

aznricepuff wrote...

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shep's body could have been fully in tact. If he was dead for a week it wouldn't matter anyway.

What's relevant is the state of his squishy brain.

The planet he landed on was pretty cold, from what it looked like when you visit the Normandy crash site. Add that to the fact that there was probably little to no atmosphere (I would check the galaxy map, but I dont have ME2 installed right now), and that Shepard's suit was compromised, it's possible that his brain wouldn't have decomposed after death. If the neural connections in his brain remained relatively intact, it's conceivable that they could have salvaged his memory/personality/etc.

Alchera has a very dense atmosphere of ammonia and methane, so an object entering the atmosphere would experience far greater heating from friction than an equivalent object entering Earth's atmosphere.

If we even ignore the speed that Shepard was travelling at from the Normandy and the explosion that spaced him, by falling into Alchera's gravity well (gravity of 0.83g) well before encountering the atmosphere, he would have gained a very large velocity.

In short, he'd be atomized before he hit the ground, and if anything did survive re-entry, it would be pasted upon hitting the ground. There's no way around this.

Thick atmosphere = more friction, slows Shepard's body's speed more, vapourizing it.

No atmosphere = Shepard smashes into the planet with a kinetic energy billions of times greater than shields can compensate for (and even if it could, the acceleration would still paste him)... leading to Shepard being pasted. No body to recover. Maybe some organic sludge if you're lucky... and even simple organic molecules tend to be utterly destroyed by impact events. Complicated molecules like DNA stand no chance.

Modifié par The Silent, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[didymos1120]

The Silent wrote...

Alchera has a very dense atmosphere of ammonia and methane, so an object entering the atmosphere would experience far greater heating from friction than an equivalent object entering Earth's atmosphere.

Wrong.  It's less dense than Earth's.  Roughly 20% less.

In short, he'd be atomized before he hit the ground, and if anything did survive re-entry, it would be pasted upon hitting the ground. There's no way around this.

No, again, wrong. Shep would hit terminal velocity way before impact.  And people have survived terminal velocity falls, with remarkably few injuries to boot. I posted three examples in this thread just a little while ago.

Modifié par didymos1120, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:55 .

[The Silent]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Silent wrote...

Alchera has a very dense atmosphere of ammonia and methane, so an object entering the atmosphere would experience far greater heating from friction than an equivalent object entering Earth's atmosphere.

Wrong.  It's less dense than Earth's.  Roughly 20% less.

No, atmospheric pressure is ~20% less. Earth's atmosphere is composed mainly of ~80% N2 and ~20% O2. As a weighted average, air molecules have an atomic mass of ~29.

Alchera has a methane/ammonia mixture. Methane has an atomic mass of ~16, ammonia ~17. Much lower than the average mass of an air molecule. To exert 80% of the pressure found on Earth means you need a much thicker and denser atmosphere, which means much more frictional heating.

No, again, wrong. Shep would hit terminal velocity way before impact.  And people have survived terminal velocity falls, with remarkably few injuries to boot. I posted three examples in this thread just a little while ago.

Pay attention. These people are not FALLING INTO EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE whilst travelling at orbital velocities. They start at a downward velocity of 0 m/s and reach a terminal velocity of ~60m/s.

Shepard would be travelling extremely fast in space. Even if he started at 0m/s (hint: HE DOESN'T) he falls for a considerable time before encountering the atmosphere, and therefore has NO TERMINAL VELOCITY because there is no atmosphere to slow him. He would be travelling hundreds of times faster than terminal velocity on Earth at the very least.

This is basic physics and chemistry knowledge. Please educate yourself before commenting.

Modifié par The Silent, 03 septembre 2011 - 01:02 .

[habitat 67]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sometimes I wonder if nitpickers are capable of enjoying anything. They are the kind of people that are a pain in the ass to take to a movie.

Or take to see Santa. They'd pull off his beard and accuse him of treachery. 

[Kaiser Shepard]

100k wrote...

But I just don't see how a human body can endure a fall from orbit. 

Like the other N7 graduates, Shepard was strong and swift and brave. A natural leader.

But Shepard had something they didn't. Something no one saw, but me.

Can you guess?

Luck.