6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Guldhun2]

Illiandri wrote...
And you have missed the point of his post more than Bioware has according to smudboy.

What point? Look at this thread from Smudboy.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2693197

Nobody is refuting any of his arguments but attacking his person on the first page. And i'm not going to read 21 pages of flames.

[Phaedon]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Illiandri wrote...
And you have missed the point of his post more than Bioware has according to smudboy.

What point? Look at this thread from Smudboy.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2693197

Nobody is refuting any of his arguments but attacking his person on the first page. And i'm not going to read 21 pages of flames.

There you go, happy now?

A single page that describes the game and its story was actually enough for many developers until recent decades.

I still don't get what the hell you are defending? His arguments? Believe me, not a lot of people hate him because of that.

To defend his behavior is the very definition of audacity.
If you are not going to like what you want to hear, don't go around asking why people "hate" smudboy.

[Balek-Vriege]

Guldhun2 wrote...

1.They were ok with a sound file proving saren and the geth (and the reapers) were after the attacks. But a 37 million year old starbase that looks at exactly like sovereign is not proof enough? How can they deny Reapers excist if there's one right there?

2. Yes, TIM is ok with involving the alliance and the council. He says so in the game.

1.  Implications are what make the difference

-Prove Saren is rogue and attacked Eden Prime = Send Shepard to track him down and kill/capture him.
-Acknowledge a mega fleet of super starship AIs bent on the anniahlation of the Galaxy = Having to build mega fleets, spend unknown amounts of cash into research and development and the need for Galaxtic unity... all while not informing the pulblic who are already shaken from the Geth invasion.  If you told them or they found out they were probably going to die in the next 2 years, Galactic civilization would break down.

Also the other Reaper is now gone.  Showing evidence of a second "Sovereign" would probably make them come to the conlusion that it's still Geth and a second mother ship that got injured.  again the implications are making them make stupid decisions from our/Shepards point of view.

For example.  I'm a super secret agent for Superpower X and I find out MediumPower Y is now a high-tech Superpower Y bent on invading X using a traitor agent with a mysterious Z to achieve their plans.  By trying to stop traitor agent and power Y I find out that their direction and power comes from Z, an alien planning on taking over the world.  I don't know about you, but this may be questionable in the eyes of those you report to.

Y invades, fails, traitor agent dies, Z is blown up and X wins.  Now that you're use in stopping the Y invaders is over, they can now do what they wanted to do all along:  Deny Z is an alien bent on invasion because that's one crazy idea with huge implications/ramafications.  It's something too big for them, the public and the government to even tackle unless the proof is on their doorstep (an actual alien invasion).  Like trying to convince yourself that you should build storm surge walls in a desert, because there was a lot of rain last night and that could be a hint that there's going to be an epic flood.


2.  He's ok with it until he thinks he has an opportunity to further Human dominance by keeping both the Alliance and the Council ignorant if they choose to be.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 03:51 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Illiandri wrote...
And you have missed the point of his post more than Bioware has according to smudboy.

What point? Look at this thread from Smudboy.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2693197

Nobody is refuting any of his arguments but attacking his person on the first page. And i'm not going to read 21 pages of flames.

There you go, happy now?

A single page that describes the game and its story was actually enough for many developers until recent decades.

I still don't get what the hell you are defending? His arguments? Believe me, not a lot of people hate him because of that.

To defend his behavior is the very definition of audacity.
If you are not going to like what you want to hear, don't go around asking why people "hate" smudboy.

Because he's right and they can't admit it?

I see little wrong with smudboy really. I see a lot of wrong with people attacking him because he DARED to put in question the writing/plot of ME2.

[Guldhun2]

Mi-Chan wrote...
 <-- squee points out in this video how denying the reapers isn't as stupid as one might think. 

Why did i watch that? Really, he's wrong at every point he makes. He makes stuff up if he can't find any arguments.

Example about the reaper ship


Shepard isn't going to tell the council/alliance because he's busy?

Wait, what? Really? He found the reason why the alliance/council should help with the collectors and the reapers. But he's not going to tell them..because he's busy with...what exactly? Getting the IFF? He couldn't have gotten that after he tells the council/alliance? And how does squee know he's busy? All i know is that TIM told Shep to get the IFF. Shepard is TIMs puppet?

And TIM wouldn't allow a friendly phonecall to the council?

Why not? He's ok with it. He says "by all means" you should convince them to help you. And again, how does Squee know all that? Is there a second version of ME2?

[Balek-Vriege]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Illiandri wrote...
And you have missed the point of his post more than Bioware has according to smudboy.

What point? Look at this thread from Smudboy.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2693197

Nobody is refuting any of his arguments but attacking his person on the first page. And i'm not going to read 21 pages of flames.

There you go, happy now?

A single page that describes the game and its story was actually enough for many developers until recent decades.

I still don't get what the hell you are defending? His arguments? Believe me, not a lot of people hate him because of that.

To defend his behavior is the very definition of audacity.
If you are not going to like what you want to hear, don't go around asking why people "hate" smudboy.

Because he's right and they can't admit it?

I see little wrong with smudboy really. I see a lot of wrong with people attacking him because he DARED to put in question the writing/plot of ME2.

Missed the point.  It's not because he DARED question writing/plot.  A lot of people do that now , did it when he was posting and continue to do so.  It's HOW he does it and WHY he does it.  He definitely gives the impression that he loves to hate Bioware in general and uses his criticisms of writing, marketing or whatever as vehicles to bash them and anyone who disagrees with him.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 04:05 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mi-Chan wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...


So having someone die, then ressurect him without much explanation just so he can join a terrorist group..is handled rather well? Now, if you like it you like it. But some people also like Justin Bieber, that doesn't make him a good singer.

Not giving an in-depth explanation makes perfect sense considering it's cerberus that rebuilt him. And honestly, can you think of a better way of getting Shepard to join cerberus - the only organization with the necessary ressources and motivation to stop the reapers? I can't since they're rogue. And the alliance wouldn't do such a thing since that would ****** off the council, and the council itself has "dismissed that claim". 

Yes. Plenty of them. None of which would require a ****ty plot device.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...
That obnoxious attitude he had from the videos? Yeah, he still had it here. Most of his posts were random inflammatory and ironic posts in various threads, most not pertaining to an argument.

What obnoxious attitude?

Maybe you have an averion to well reasoned posts and use of vocabulary. Or maybe his voice irritates you. Whatever the case, I see worse attitude on a daily basis here on BSN. And plenty of it is yours.

[Balek-Vriege]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes. Plenty of them. None of which would require a ****ty plot device.

In your opinion.  It's scifi.

[Guldhun2]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Missed the point.  It's not because he DARED question writing/plot.  A lot of people do that now , did it when he was posting and continue to do so.  It's HOW he does does it and WHY he does it.  He definitely gives the impression that he loves to hate Bioware in general and uses his criticisms of writing, marketing or whatever as vehicles to bash them and anyone who disagrees with him.

Someone puts words in Smudboys mouth as if he said that ME2 has the worst plot EVARRR in a sequel, which isn't true since he said the it is one of the worst. And he can't defend himself?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes. Plenty of them. None of which would require a ****ty plot device.

In your opinion.  It's scifi.

Writing conventions exist for a reason. Some oppinions are more correct than others.

And me coming up with other reasons is not an opinion. It's a fact.

[Balek-Vriege]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
That obnoxious attitude he had from the videos? Yeah, he still had it here. Most of his posts were random inflammatory and ironic posts in various threads, most not pertaining to an argument.

What obnoxious attitude?

Maybe you have an averion to well reasoned posts and use of vocabulary. Or maybe his voice irritates you. Whatever the case, I see worse attitude on a daily basis here on BSN. And plenty of it is yours.

That was a bit obnoxious right there.  However, I think we can all be in forums sometimes.  It's just whether or not we make a habit of it.

Guldhun2 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Missed the point.  It's not because he DARED question writing/plot.  A lot of people do that now , did it when he was posting and continue to do so.  It's HOW he does does it and WHY he does it.  He definitely gives the impression that he loves to hate Bioware in general and uses his criticisms of writing, marketing or whatever as vehicles to bash them and anyone who disagrees with him.

Someone puts words in Smudboys mouth as if he said that ME2 has the worst plot EVARRR in a sequel, which isn't true since he said the it is one of the worst. And he can't defend himself?

He has a right to defend himself and I would just say he doesn't do it well or in a way which uses a lot of critical thinking.  One of the worst plots? Really?  I think that's a bit farfetched as well, but it's just my opinion and is not gospel.

In the end there's something to be said about the majority isn't always right in matters of debate.  But when 95% of people are ok  with the story and a good majority apparently like the plot/story, you have to ask yourself the question:

Is the guy complaining about every detail under the sun about ME writing/plot and goes on for 10 mintues at a time about points/notions which are pretty miniscule (while completely ignoring facts which could have been easily covered in that time to counter his argument so he could rebutt them) etc., correct on the matter?  Probably not.
 
Who do his videos say more of with his approach to criticism:

Bioware... or Smudboy himself?

I would say the latter.

[Balek-Vriege]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes. Plenty of them. None of which would require a ****ty plot device.

In your opinion.  It's scifi.

Writing conventions exist for a reason. Some oppinions are more correct than others.

And me coming up with other reasons is not an opinion. It's a fact.

It's a fact that it's your opinion.  Not fact that it's right.  It could be, but it's still your opinion.  No matter how strong an argument I think I personally have, I would never say my opinion is "fact."


Edit: Or did you mean that you coming up with other reasons is a fact?  Of course it is but that has nothing to do with anything.  It's also a fact I disagree with you right now.  So?

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 04:23 .

[Guldhun2]

Balek-Vriege wrote...
He has a right to defend himself and I would just say he doesn't do it well or in a way which uses a lot of critical thinking.  One of the worst plots? Really?  I think that's a bit farfetched as well, but it's just my opinion and is not gospel.

How many sequels to video games have so much plot holes and strange and sometimes bad writing as ME2? A couple maybe, hence the ONE OF THE worst.

In the end there's something to be said about the majority isn't always right in matters of debate.  But when 95% of people are ok  with the story and a good majority apparently like the plot/story, you have to ask yourself the question:

Millions like Justin Bieber, but his music is still ****. Popular =/= good

Is the guy complaining about every detail under the sun about ME writing/plot and goes on for 10 mintues at a time about points/notions which are pretty miniscule (while completely ignoring facts which could have been easily covered in that time to counter his argument so he could rebutt them) etc., correct on the matter?  Probably not.

So? if he enjoys doing that, why not? Nobody forces you to watch.
 

Modifié par Guldhun2, 28 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...
He has a right to defend himself and I would just say he doesn't do it well or in a way which uses a lot of critical thinking.  One of the worst plots? Really?  I think that's a bit farfetched as well, but it's just my opinion and is not gospel.

How many sequels to video games have so much plot holes and strange and sometimes bad writing as ME2? A couple maybe, hence the ONE OF THE worst.

In the end there's something to be said about the majority isn't always right in matters of debate.  But when 95% of people are ok  with the story and a good majority apparently like the plot/story, you have to ask yourself the question:

Millions like Justin Bieber, but his music is still ****. Popular =/= good

Is the guy complaining about every detail under the sun about ME writing/plot and goes on for 10 mintues at a time about points/notions which are pretty miniscule (while completely ignoring facts which could have been easily covered in that time to counter his argument so he could rebutt them) etc., correct on the matter?  Probably not.

So? if he enjoys doing that, why not? Nobody forces you to watch.
 

Again, you're stating your opinion as fact and not as an opinion.  There is a very valid argument that the vast majority of plot holes Smudboy points out may not be plot holes using basic common sense and simple factual things within the writing/plot itself.  So the basis that's its ONE OF THE WORST ever plots is built upon shaky ground at best.

As for your second point I agree.  To quote myself in what you quoted:

"In the end there's something to be said about the majority isn't always right in matters of debate."

You just said it:  Justin Bieber is a perfect example imo.

Third point is true, but I also have the right not only to watch it, but criticise it as well and make my points as to why he's unjust in his approach.  The same way he has a right to criticise Bioware and their world no matter how right/wrong he is.

Edit: On the third point you may have missed my point though.  He can enjoy it, put all that work into his points etc. but that doesn't automatically make him right.  And if he's wrong on many points than it says more about him than what he's complaining about.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 04:34 .

[Shimmer_Gloom]

One: Justin Beiber is an incredibly talented kid. And I do not fault people for liking him. Not my cup of tea but... I just don't like jumping on bandwagons, especially one's whos sole purpose is to win points at the expense of others. So. Yeah there's that.

Two: Is anybody stopping for a moment to consider that analyzing the plot of a GAME is in itself problematic? Anyone ever consider that maybe using the same tools we use when analyzing Literature do not always work as well for Video Games?

No? Just me...

[morrie23]

I mostly agree with smud on ME2's plot (heck one of first reviews I read for ME2 said the main plot was "a bit disappointing" and I totally agree with that assessment). Smud's problem is that he often slides into hyperbole.

TBH, judging the marketing of ME3 (which was the original point of this thread I believe) is a pointless process, marketing for video games is invariably bad.

[Balek-Vriege]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

One: Justin Beiber is an incredibly talented kid. And I do not fault people for liking him. Not my cup of tea but... I just don't like jumping on bandwagons, especially one's whos sole purpose is to win points at the expense of others. So. Yeah there's that.

Two: Is anybody stopping for a moment to consider that analyzing the plot of a GAME is in itself problematic? Anyone ever consider that maybe using the same tools we use when analyzing Literature do not always work as well for Video Games?

No? Just me...

One:  I think so too, I personally don't like his "singing"  though (Edit: if you can call it singing/a voice), but his talent at playing Drums etc. was awsome when he was a kid.

Two:  Very good point.  I agree especially when it comes to the criticisms of Shepard's personality.  He's controlled by us and we're the ones who give him/her the personality.  Roleplaying.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 28 août 2011 - 04:38 .

[string3r]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

One: Justin Beiber is an incredibly talented kid. And I do not fault people for liking him. Not my cup of tea but... I just don't like jumping on bandwagons, especially one's whos sole purpose is to win points at the expense of others. So. Yeah there's that.

Two: Is anybody stopping for a moment to consider that analyzing the plot of a GAME is in itself problematic? Anyone ever consider that maybe using the same tools we use when analyzing Literature do not always work as well for Video Games?

No? Just me...

wat

[Tamahome560]

Oh this thread again? *closes the browser tab with BSN*

[Eradyn]

Threads like these remind me why I rarely visit the BSN anymore. Rampant and unashamed ass-kissing, personal threats, immaturity and embarrassingly unprofessional behavior from professionals who should know better, attacks against any deemed "other," and a self-righteous indignation that anyone might dare attack or criticize the sacred cow.

I enjoyed the ME series, but if someone has criticisms of the game, or a different opinion than me, they aren't necessarily invalid and they have the right to state their mind. There is room for improvements in the ME series and people should be open to listening and addressing whatever criticisms or suggestions are offered. Such feedback is far more useful to developing an improved gaming experience in the future than blind fanboyism that celebrates mediocrity and outright crap (not saying ME has displayed this) to a project's detriment. If people are attacking this guy personally, and not addressing his points, then that speaks volumes of this community...and that a BW employee jumped in for a passive aggressive swipe is incredibly shameful. I have long-since ceased expecting better from this particular BW studio, however.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

SpiffySquee wrote...
My complaint is why people keep saying I personally attacked him. I attacked his arguments and his presentation of them. I NEVER attacked his intelligence, character, or personal status. Everyone who has ever debated me here, may not like me, but they know I have never attacked someone on a personal level.

I think people are refering to your use of all those facepalm or other whacky demotivationel posters in your videos.

Mi-Chan wrote...
 around the 9:00 mark, the babylon 5 part. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Smudboy's point was that the concept of death of resurrection was never explored. Nor was it used to create a scene where Shepard show his more human side (like LOTSB), perhaps have him suffer from bad dreams. The only thing it was used for was to create some bad Monty.python jokes. What should have been one of the trilogy's deepest moments was just an excuse to jump two years foward and blow up a space-ship.

I also kinda wonder why Mordin is completely uninterested in finding out more about THE CURE FOR DEATH!

[bduff4545]

What I don't get is why smudboy puts so much time and effort into bioware games instead of other games from other developers

[Eradyn]

bduff4545 wrote...

What I don't get is why smudboy puts so much time and effort into bioware games instead of other games from other developers

Perhaps he cares more about BW projects and expects/hopes better of them.  People devote more time to that which they care about.  If someone doesn't care, they don't devote the energy/resources.